Zone1 Should A Handful Of Billionaires Own More Wealth Than The Bottom 50% Of All Americans?

[Red Front]

Right, because highly skilled mechanics are just like the guy scrubbing the vomit off the seats.

How would our customers feel, if they had cockroaches crawling on them during the flight? You're a real piece of work.

Yes, they're both human beings, contributing their labor to the operation. The pilots need the ground crew, in order to have a job and fly that plane safely. They need everyone that is part of the team. Their salaries are higher than that of a person that cleans the plane, but as far as their stake in the company everyone is equal. I'm a veteran, I served in the US Army in the early 90s, and I was deployed in Somalia. Does that make me more of a citizen than you? I have one vote, not three or five votes, right? If I'm smarter and more educated, with more money, does that give me more votes or grant me a higher level of citizenship than you? The pilots, the mechanics, the cleaning crew, are all important. We are all equal when it comes to our share in the company and how many votes we have.

That "garbage man" that picks up your garbage in the morning, a few days a week, is a very important component in our city's infrastructure. Without people like him or her, we would be living in a very unsanitary, disease-ridden city, surrounded by piles of filth. Mountains of stinking, rotting, fly-covered garbage. So you may think their job is easy and doesn't take much skill, but that's really not true. Being a "garbage man" or a cleaner on a plane takes skill and it's extremely important for the business, to keep everything squeaky clean. Cleanliness is vital for the business. Customers will complain online and everywhere else if the planes are infested with cockroaches. The pilot won't have a job.

My uncle is a helicopter pilot, and he loves flying. He doesn't do it for the money. Pilots don't really fly for the money, they love flying. That's their passion.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

How would our customers feel, if they had cockroaches crawling on them during the flight? You're a real piece of work.

Yes, they're both human beings, contributing their labor to the operation. The pilots need the ground crew, in order to have a job and fly that plane safely. They need everyone that is part of the team. Their salaries are higher than that of a person that cleans the plane, but as far as their stake in the company everyone is equal. I'm a veteran, I served in the US Army in the early 90s, and I was deployed in Somalia. Does that make me more of a citizen than you? I have one vote, not three or five votes, right? If I'm smarter and more educated, with more money, does that give me more votes or grant me a higher level of citizenship than you? The pilots, the mechanics, the cleaning crew, are all important. We are all equal when it comes to our share in the company and how many votes we have.

That "garbage man" that picks up your garbage in the morning, a few days a week, is a very important component in our city's infrastructure. Without people like him or her, we would be living in a very unsanitary, disease-ridden city, surrounded by piles of filth. Mountains of stinking, rotting, fly-covered garbage. So you may think their job is easy and doesn't take much skill, but that's really not true. Being a "garbage man" or a cleaner on a plane takes skill and it's extremely important for the business, to keep everything clean. It's vital for the business to make sure those planes are squeaky clean. Customers will complain online and everywhere else if the planes are infested with cockroaches. The pilot won't have a job. My uncle is a helicopter pilot, and he loves flying. He doesn't do it for the money.

Yeah, those highly skilled vacuum cleaners....just as important as the mechanics.

Their salaries are higher than that of a person that cleans the plane,

That's outrageous! Years of very difficult training doesn't mean you deserve more than the guy who needed 5 minutes of training to learn where the on/off switch is and how to empty
the vacuum bag.

Have you realized your "303 times" error yet?

 

[Red Front]

Yeah, those highly skilled vacuum cleaners....just as important as the mechanics.

Their salaries are higher than that of a person that cleans the plane,

That's outrageous! Years of very difficult training doesn't mean you deserve more than the guy who needed 5 minutes of training to learn where the on/off switch is and how to empty
the vacuum bag.

Have you realized your "303 times" error yet?

The error is yours. There are many benefits to working in a worker-owned and run cooperative, so your criticism on this point is moot. They can get paid more money than flying for a privately owned company, plus they have a great benefits package, more job security, and a vote on who is a member of the board of directors. Your complaints are pathetic.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

The error is yours. There are many benefits to working in a worker-owned and run cooperative, so your criticism on this point is moot. They can get paid more money than flying for a privately owned company, plus they have a great benefits package, more job security, and a vote on who is a member of the board of directors. Your complaints are pathetic.

I'll help you out..........

Chief Executives

www.bls.gov

Unless the employees working for the median CEO make less than $600 a year..........

 

[BasicHumanUnit]

The error is yours. There are many benefits to working in a worker-owned and run cooperative, so your criticism on this point is moot. They can get paid more money than flying for a privately owned company, plus they have a great benefits package, more job security, and a vote on who is a member of the board of directors. Your complaints are pathetic.

You would have been of absolutely no use to Sherlock Holmes........
You don't have a CLUE

 

[Red Front]

I'll help you out..........

View attachment 742149

Chief Executives

www.bls.gov

Unless the employees working for the median CEO make less than $600 a year..........

The article that I posted was perhaps referring to large companies with 500+ employees i.e. Fortune 500 companies. Anyways, you asked for evidence for my claim that workers make more money working in worker-owned cooperatives, and I provided you with three sources that supported my assertion. If you want to reject the first article that I presented as evidence, due to what they said about the salaries of the average CEO, then disregard it. I can provide you with more reference sources that attest to the fact workers make more working for cooperatives.

 

[Red Front]

You would have been of absolutely no use to Sherlock Holmes........
You don't have a CLUE

I have more than a clue, I have the facts on my side.

 

[Red Front]

I'll help you out..........

View attachment 742149

Chief Executives

www.bls.gov

Unless the employees working for the median CEO make less than $600 a year..........

I found the source of the first article. Go to the following PDF, and read page 2. It states there:

Worker cooperatives prioritize the reduction of internal inequality over other compensation goals. By contrast, the average large U.S. corporation has a CEO-to-worker pay ratio of 303-to-1.

Here is the link to the PDF: https://cameonetwork.org/wp-content...operative-Economic-Census-EN-FINAL_020220.pdf

So as I thought, it was indeed referring to large companies.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

The article that I posted was perhaps referring to large companies with 500+ employees i.e. Fortune 500 companies. Anyways, you asked for evidence for my claim that workers make more money working in worker-owned cooperatives, and I provided you with three sources that supported my assertion. If you want to reject the first article that I presented as evidence, due to what they said about the salaries of the average CEO, then disregard it. I can provide you with more reference sources that attest to the fact workers make more working for cooperatives.

The article that I posted was perhaps referring to large companies with 500+ employees i.e. Fortune 500 companies.


Perhaps?
So when you posted "compared to a CEO-to-worker pay ratio of 303-to-1 at the average U.S. corporation" they really mean Fortune 500 companies, which aren't average at all?

Anyways, you asked for evidence for my claim that workers make more money working in worker-owned cooperatives
Additionally, the average cooperative wage paid at all reporting worker cooperatives is $19.67 per hour,

Median weekly earnings by age and sex, second quarter 2021 : The Economics Daily: U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics

Median weekly earnings of the nation's 113.6 million full-time wage and salary workers were $990 in the second quarter of 2021. Women had median weekly earnings of $899, or 82.2 percent of the $1,094 median for men. Median weekly earnings were highest for men and women ages 35 to 64.

www.bls.gov

Median looks like at least $990/40 = $24.75

Are you sure you're proving your claim?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

I found the source of the first article. Go to the following PDF, and read page 2. It states there:

Worker cooperatives prioritize the reduction of internal inequality over other compensation goals. By contrast, the average large U.S. corporation has a CEO-to-worker pay ratio of 303-to-1.

Here is the link to the PDF: https://cameonetwork.org/wp-content...operative-Economic-Census-EN-FINAL_020220.pdf

So as I thought, it was indeed referring to large companies.

The average large corporation? LOL!
Hilarious.

 

[Red Front]

The article that I posted was perhaps referring to large companies with 500+ employees i.e. Fortune 500 companies.


Perhaps?
So when you posted "compared to a CEO-to-worker pay ratio of 303-to-1 at the average U.S. corporation" they really mean Fortune 500 companies, which aren't average at all?

Anyways, you asked for evidence for my claim that workers make more money working in worker-owned cooperatives
Additionally, the average cooperative wage paid at all reporting worker cooperatives is $19.67 per hour,
View attachment 742153

Median weekly earnings by age and sex, second quarter 2021 : The Economics Daily: U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics

Median weekly earnings of the nation's 113.6 million full-time wage and salary workers were $990 in the second quarter of 2021. Women had median weekly earnings of $899, or 82.2 percent of the $1,094 median for men. Median weekly earnings were highest for men and women ages 35 to 64.

www.bls.gov

Median looks like at least $990/40 = $24.75

Are you sure you're proving your claim?

It said in the 13 states where there are more cooperatives, that's where the average worker in a cooperative makes more. Read my last post, because the 301 to 1 was referring to large companies. The first article didn't specify if it was referring to all companies or just large ones. But the PDF specifically says "large".

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

It said in the 13 states where there are more cooperatives, that's where the average worker in a cooperative makes more. Read my last post, because the 301 to 1 was referring to large companies. The first article didn't specify if it was referring to all companies or just large ones. But the PDF specifically says "large".

It said in the 13 states where there are more cooperatives, that's where the average worker in a cooperative makes more.

It didn't say they made more than the average non-cooperative worker.

Read my last post, because the 301 to 1 was referring to large companies.

Yes, it said "average large corporation" with zero backup or explanation. Hilarious!

 

[Red Front]

So in the recap. Todd and his ilk (wealthy millionaire capitalists), don't like it when workers (the working class), have a job in a worker-owned, democratically-run company, because they like having the working-class dependent upon them for jobs. If the "peasants", the people who currently sell their labor-power (their lives) to Todd and his rich buddies, become aware of the fact that they can, with other fellow workers, organize a worker-owned business and have more power over their lives, including a better salary and benefits, than what they have now with Todd, then they won't slave for Todd anymore. Todd the rich fief-lord capitalist parasite, won't have any more employeeees, to exploit. He will be competing with worker-owned, democratically-run businesses, that are more competitive than him or his rich buddies. Right Todd? Come on man admit it.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

So in the recap. Todd and his ilk (wealthy millionaire capitalists), don't like it when workers (the working class), have a job in a worker-owned, democratically-run company, because they like having the working-class dependent upon them for jobs. If the "peasants", the people who currently sell their labor-power (their lives) to Todd and his rich buddies, become aware of the fact that they can, with other fellow workers, organize a worker-owned business and have more power over their lives, including a better salary and benefits, than what they have now with Todd, then they won't slave for Todd anymore. Todd the rich fief-lord capitalist parasite, won't have any more employeeees, to exploit. He will be competing with worker-owned, democratically-run businesses, that are more competitive than him or his rich buddies. Right Todd? Come on man admit it.

So, to recap, Commie doesn't like it when I point out the errors in his posts.

 

[Red Front]

It said in the 13 states where there are more cooperatives, that's where the average worker in a cooperative makes more.

It didn't say they made more than the average non-cooperative worker.

Read my last post, because the 301 to 1 was referring to large companies.

Yes, it said "average large corporation" with zero backup or explanation. Hilarious!

You were claiming that the 301 to 1 stat was referring to an average among millions of companies No it wasn't, it was referring to large companies. Not millions of corporations. You were wrong also in equating ESOPs and companies that offer stocks to their employees, with worker-owned cooperatives. So you started griping about pilots that work in cooperatives, and how they have an equal vote with the people who clean the plane blah blah blah. You're just wrong, across the board. Everything that flies off your keyboard amounts to drivel-scribble.

 

[Concerned American]

Except that I worked my ass off for that property, while keeping rents low.

Also worthy of note is that many people prefer to rent. What say you to that? In my city alone there are 45,000 university students and most rent their dwellings, and most will leave the state upon graduation.

The U.S. government is the biggest landlord in the country, also the biggest renter.

And those renters are enriching the people who are purchasing the property. Then they can't understand why they can't build wealth.

 

[Red Front]

So, to recap, Commie doesn't like it when I point out the errors in his posts.

But you haven't done that Todd. You're just delusional.

 

[Red Front]

And those renters are enriching the people who are purchasing the property. Then they can't understand why they can't build wealth.

Adam Smith the father of modern capitalism, didn't like landlords. He saw them as parasites.

 

[Concerned American]

So, to recap, Commie doesn't like it when I point out the errors in his posts.

Not many of them do when they're obviously wrong in their assertions and it is so easily pointed out.

 

[Red Front]

Not many of them do when they're obviously wrong in their assertions and it is so easily pointed out.

Where was I wrong? Be specific.