Should America Bid Farewell to Exceptional Freedom?

[PatekPhilippe]

is this why Carter undermined Israel at every turn? [And Continues to even to this day]?

Jimmy Carter was directly responsible for the rise to prominence of Islamic Jihad headed by Aiman Al Zawahiri...after he got Sadat and Begin to shake hands and embrace the entire terrorist movement took on a whole differrent strategy. Islamic Jihad assassinated Sadat, bombed the Marine Barracks in Lebenon then went to Afghanistan to fight the Russians at which point Al Qaeda was born.

Jimmy Carter was the worst president in the entire history of the country....BAR NONE!!!!!

Oh wow. When does your book come out? I'm sure the CIA will be most interested in your analysis.

Considering it's fact...I'm sure they would.

 

[Gunny]

is this why Carter undermined Israel at every turn? [And Continues to even to this day]?

Jimmy Carter was directly responsible for the rise to prominence of Islamic Jihad headed by Aiman Al Zawahiri...after he got Sadat and Begin to shake hands and embrace the entire terrorist movement took on a whole differrent strategy. Islamic Jihad assassinated Sadat, bombed the Marine Barracks in Lebenon then went to Afghanistan to fight the Russians at which point Al Qaeda was born.

Jimmy Carter was the worst president in the entire history of the country....BAR NONE!!!!!

Oh wow. When does your book come out? I'm sure the CIA will be most interested in your analysis.

They already have it. They didn't use Boy Scouts to smuggle weapons and supplies to bin Laden in Afghanistan either.

 

[MaggieMae]

The fact that you think the vanishing of Exceptional Freedom in this country started with Bush (or Obama for some of the others) is a picturesque example of how it's been allowed to happen. The nibbling away at freedom in this country began long before the 21st century.

We've also grown in population from 4 million when the Constitution was signed to over 305 million. A slight consideration?

No. What difference does it make?

Attempting to apply a small set of tenets to 100 times more citizens has proven difficult. It isn't rocket science, son.

 

[MaggieMae]

Total nonsense

What rock have you been under for the past 50 years? The liberals that are running this country are supremely lazy and selfish. They want the government to provide just about everything for them and in the process their rights along with everyone else's are taken away. Because you do not understand history, you along with everyone else will be forced to repeat it.

Its called being a modern society.

Where have you been the last 50 years? Remember the rampant poverty? Overt Racism? Gays being beaten with immunity? Domestic violence that was family business? Rampant polution?

C'mon, RW. They LIKED it that way. Which is why you can't even begin to debate this subject with them.

 

[rightwinger]

What rock have you been under for the past 50 years? The liberals that are running this country are supremely lazy and selfish. They want the government to provide just about everything for them and in the process their rights along with everyone else's are taken away. Because you do not understand history, you along with everyone else will be forced to repeat it.

Its called being a modern society.

Where have you been the last 50 years? Remember the rampant poverty? Overt Racism? Gays being beaten with immunity? Domestic violence that was family business? Rampant polution?

C'mon, RW. They LIKED it that way. Which is why you can't even begin to debate this subject with them.

So I see now..

It is the freedom to abuse and discriminate without retribution that they have lost..

Nasty Liberals

 

[MaggieMae]

Really? How about before we had a national income tax?
How about before there was Socialist Security tax?

Freedom INCLUDES freedom to fail

That is why the failures prefer socialism to freedom. Because then everyone fails and they don't stand out as losers.

Do you really yearn for the "freedom" of pre-1930 America?

Ask the blacks in this country how "free" they were
Ask workers how free they were to unionize and get a 40 hr work week and a safe working environment
Try being a gay American in the pre-1930s
How free were you if the air you breathed or the water you drank was poisoned by some factory trying to make a buck?

So, you don't like Social Security or income tax and feel they enslave you. Before FDR, Social Security was either whatever meager savings you could accumulate or living off your kids. Millions of old people lived in misery and poverty once they could no longer work.
What do you propose we substitute for the income tax? the Tax Fairy?

For one, the Social Security Ponzi scheme has been debunked here multiple times. That you still cling to it as some sort of panacea is ludicrous.

And equating wanting less government intrusion in our lives to being racist or homophobic is a red herring.

It is a simple fact that government is eating up more of our personal resources every day.

And tell me did the government tax me to allow blacks equal rights?

Did the government tax me to allow women to vote?

Did the government tax me to allow workers to form unions?

Does the government force people to join unions?

All those things you mention came not from government but from the people themselves.

No one here who truly believes in liberty would stand for anyone not having equal standing.

But denying that government is exercising more and more control over us and is costing us a bigger and bigger portion of our money is you being blind by choice.

If Social Security were a "Ponzi scheme," it never would have worked from the first year out. The only reason it can't work now without some adjustment is because people are living longer, thereby collecting longer, and more in benefits are paid out than taken in.

As for the rest of your analysis, assuming you are griping about the possibility of taxes being raised, even if that happens, the rate will be increased only to the level under the Clinton Administration, and I don't recall too many unhappy people during the 90's.

 

[Gunny]

Do you really yearn for the "freedom" of pre-1930 America?

Ask the blacks in this country how "free" they were
Ask workers how free they were to unionize and get a 40 hr work week and a safe working environment
Try being a gay American in the pre-1930s
How free were you if the air you breathed or the water you drank was poisoned by some factory trying to make a buck?

So, you don't like Social Security or income tax and feel they enslave you. Before FDR, Social Security was either whatever meager savings you could accumulate or living off your kids. Millions of old people lived in misery and poverty once they could no longer work.
What do you propose we substitute for the income tax? the Tax Fairy?

For one, the Social Security Ponzi scheme has been debunked here multiple times. That you still cling to it as some sort of panacea is ludicrous.

And equating wanting less government intrusion in our lives to being racist or homophobic is a red herring.

It is a simple fact that government is eating up more of our personal resources every day.

And tell me did the government tax me to allow blacks equal rights?

Did the government tax me to allow women to vote?

Did the government tax me to allow workers to form unions?

Does the government force people to join unions?

All those things you mention came not from government but from the people themselves.

No one here who truly believes in liberty would stand for anyone not having equal standing.

But denying that government is exercising more and more control over us and is costing us a bigger and bigger portion of our money is you being blind by choice.

If Social Security were a "Ponzi scheme," it never would have worked from the first year out. The only reason it can't work now without some adjustment is because people are living longer, thereby collecting longer, and more in benefits are paid out than taken in.

As for the rest of your analysis, assuming you are griping about the possibility of taxes being raised, even if that happens, the rate will be increased only to the level under the Clinton Administration, and I don't recall too many unhappy people during the 90's.

You must have a short memory. I recall a LOT of unhappy people during the 90s BECAUSE OF Clinton. Matter of fact, Dems lost control of Congress because of it.

 

[PatekPhilippe]

Do you really yearn for the "freedom" of pre-1930 America?

Ask the blacks in this country how "free" they were
Ask workers how free they were to unionize and get a 40 hr work week and a safe working environment
Try being a gay American in the pre-1930s
How free were you if the air you breathed or the water you drank was poisoned by some factory trying to make a buck?

So, you don't like Social Security or income tax and feel they enslave you. Before FDR, Social Security was either whatever meager savings you could accumulate or living off your kids. Millions of old people lived in misery and poverty once they could no longer work.
What do you propose we substitute for the income tax? the Tax Fairy?

For one, the Social Security Ponzi scheme has been debunked here multiple times. That you still cling to it as some sort of panacea is ludicrous.

And equating wanting less government intrusion in our lives to being racist or homophobic is a red herring.

It is a simple fact that government is eating up more of our personal resources every day.

And tell me did the government tax me to allow blacks equal rights?

Did the government tax me to allow women to vote?

Did the government tax me to allow workers to form unions?

Does the government force people to join unions?

All those things you mention came not from government but from the people themselves.

No one here who truly believes in liberty would stand for anyone not having equal standing.

But denying that government is exercising more and more control over us and is costing us a bigger and bigger portion of our money is you being blind by choice.

If Social Security were a "Ponzi scheme," it never would have worked from the first year out. The only reason it can't work now without some adjustment is because people are living longer, thereby collecting longer, and more in benefits are paid out than taken in.

Your analysis is flawed.

The Social Security system has 53 trillion dollars in unfunded liabilities because the Congress, from the time LBJ signed the law, borrows money from Social Security to fund the ever expanding federal budget.

 

[MaggieMae]

boedicca, go back and read what I wrote and then think about it. Then you may grok it.

She's gotten a little carried away with her new-found "word." Every time I see it, I picture someone puking.

"You'll be cleaning up your own grock, ya know!!!"​

 

[MaggieMae]

For one, the Social Security Ponzi scheme has been debunked here multiple times. That you still cling to it as some sort of panacea is ludicrous.

And equating wanting less government intrusion in our lives to being racist or homophobic is a red herring.

It is a simple fact that government is eating up more of our personal resources every day.

And tell me did the government tax me to allow blacks equal rights?

Did the government tax me to allow women to vote?

Did the government tax me to allow workers to form unions?

Does the government force people to join unions?

All those things you mention came not from government but from the people themselves.

No one here who truly believes in liberty would stand for anyone not having equal standing.

But denying that government is exercising more and more control over us and is costing us a bigger and bigger portion of our money is you being blind by choice.

If Social Security were a "Ponzi scheme," it never would have worked from the first year out. The only reason it can't work now without some adjustment is because people are living longer, thereby collecting longer, and more in benefits are paid out than taken in.

As for the rest of your analysis, assuming you are griping about the possibility of taxes being raised, even if that happens, the rate will be increased only to the level under the Clinton Administration, and I don't recall too many unhappy people during the 90's.

You must have a short memory. I recall a LOT of unhappy people during the 90s BECAUSE OF Clinton. Matter of fact, Dems lost control of Congress because of it.

But the tax rate stayed at 38% for the top earners. Go figure.

 

[MaggieMae]

Jimmy Carter was directly responsible for the rise to prominence of Islamic Jihad headed by Aiman Al Zawahiri...after he got Sadat and Begin to shake hands and embrace the entire terrorist movement took on a whole differrent strategy. Islamic Jihad assassinated Sadat, bombed the Marine Barracks in Lebenon then went to Afghanistan to fight the Russians at which point Al Qaeda was born.

Jimmy Carter was the worst president in the entire history of the country....BAR NONE!!!!!

Oh wow. When does your book come out? I'm sure the CIA will be most interested in your analysis.

Considering it's fact...I'm sure they would.

Hey PP -- Maybe you need to brush up on the Rules and Regulations for this board, i.e.:

Rep System Guidelines: Our reputation system is designed to provide a feedback and credibility mechanism. Abuse of the system (repeated neg repping of the same person without cause or positive rep "trading" among users) will not be tolerated. Rep system abuse will result in warnings to cease. Continued abuse will result in random acts of rep manipulation of abusers by admins. Abuse the system, and we will mercilessly toy with you.

 

[Charles Stucker]

Playing the Race Card is a concession that you don't have a valid point to make.

Just sayin'.

It is just putting into historical perspective the yearning for "the good ole days" when we had so much more freedom.

We have never had as much freedom as we do right now

Yeah,I'm thinking what they mean is white christians don't have the freedom to discriminate and infringe on other's freedoms like most of American history was full of up until the latter part of the 20th century.

I highlighted the problem with your post. You should stick to what you're good at, and that clearly does not include thinking.
Which makes it unsurprising you would trade freedom for security.
You're too stupid to realize that once you lack the one, the other soon follows.

 

[beowolfe]

Quote: Originally Posted by PatekPhilippe

Jimmy Carter was directly responsible for the rise to prominence of Islamic Jihad headed by Aiman Al Zawahiri...after he got Sadat and Begin to shake hands and embrace the entire terrorist movement took on a whole differrent strategy. Islamic Jihad assassinated Sadat, bombed the Marine Barracks in Lebenon then went to Afghanistan to fight the Russians at which point Al Qaeda was born.

Jimmy Carter was the worst president in the entire history of the country....BAR NONE!!!!!

I wonder if you guys EVER really think about what you're saying. I'd bet a dollar to a dime, you have no clue of Carter's economic policy or what actually happened during his administration. All you have in your brain are Reagan's campaign slogans. Maybe you should check out Volker before you make any other claims.

 

[Dr Gregg]

Quote: Originally Posted by PatekPhilippe

Jimmy Carter was directly responsible for the rise to prominence of Islamic Jihad headed by Aiman Al Zawahiri...after he got Sadat and Begin to shake hands and embrace the entire terrorist movement took on a whole differrent strategy. Islamic Jihad assassinated Sadat, bombed the Marine Barracks in Lebenon then went to Afghanistan to fight the Russians at which point Al Qaeda was born.

Jimmy Carter was the worst president in the entire history of the country....BAR NONE!!!!!

I wonder if you guys EVER really think about what you're saying. I'd bet a dollar to a dime, you have no clue of Carter's economic policy or what actually happened during his administration. All you have in your brain are Reagan's campaign slogans. Maybe you should check out Volker before you make any other claims.

Yup, wonder that to. THey just are way to simple minded to realize the current situation in the middle east was 50+ years in the making, with many presidents that have come and gone contributing to the animosity and rise of terrorism.

 

[Dr Gregg]

It is just putting into historical perspective the yearning for "the good ole days" when we had so much more freedom.

We have never had as much freedom as we do right now

Yeah,I'm thinking what they mean is white christians don't have the freedom to discriminate and infringe on other's freedoms like most of American history was full of up until the latter part of the 20th century.

I highlighted the problem with your post. You should stick to what you're good at, and that clearly does not include thinking.
Which makes it unsurprising you would trade freedom for security.
You're too stupid to realize that once you lack the one, the other soon follows.

Brilliant response, I guess you went to the idiot's school of logic, huh? YOu seem to be the moron, as where did anything I said have anything to do with trading freedom for security? Methinks you are the one lacking in intelligence, as what does discrimination of every ethnic group through the history of this country have to do with security? The past was full of women, black people, non christians, homosexuals having their rights trampled on by the majority, up until the latter part of the 20th century.

Civil rights has what to do with security? And I don't think

 

[Charles Stucker]

Quote: Originally Posted by PatekPhilippe

Jimmy Carter was directly responsible for the rise to prominence of Islamic Jihad headed by Aiman Al Zawahiri...after he got Sadat and Begin to shake hands and embrace the entire terrorist movement took on a whole differrent strategy. Islamic Jihad assassinated Sadat, bombed the Marine Barracks in Lebenon then went to Afghanistan to fight the Russians at which point Al Qaeda was born.

Jimmy Carter was the worst president in the entire history of the country....BAR NONE!!!!!

I wonder if you guys EVER really think about what you're saying. I'd bet a dollar to a dime, you have no clue of Carter's economic policy or what actually happened during his administration. All you have in your brain are Reagan's campaign slogans. Maybe you should check out Volker before you make any other claims.

Yup, wonder that to. THey just are way to simply minded to realize the current situation in the middle east was 50+ years in the making, with many presidents that have come and gone contributing to the animosity and rise of terrorism.

You got that right.
Bill Clinton's mindless bombing campaigns, designed to remove attention from the Monica Lewinsky affair, certainly escalated tensions enormously. In fact 9/11 was a response to Clinton, not Bush.

 

[Dr Gregg]

I wonder if you guys EVER really think about what you're saying. I'd bet a dollar to a dime, you have no clue of Carter's economic policy or what actually happened during his administration. All you have in your brain are Reagan's campaign slogans. Maybe you should check out Volker before you make any other claims.

Yup, wonder that to. THey just are way to simply minded to realize the current situation in the middle east was 50+ years in the making, with many presidents that have come and gone contributing to the animosity and rise of terrorism.

You got that right.
Bill Clinton's mindless bombing campaigns, designed to remove attention from the Monica Lewinsky affair, certainly escalated tensions enormously. In fact 9/11 was a response to Clinton, not Bush.

Clinton, along with every president contributed. YOu are too fucking dumb and a hack to realize that. Yes, let's blame clinton solely for 9/11

 

[JakeStarkey]

Skull Pilot, the twin engines of industry have been the acquisition/use of energy and centralization of government (whether public or private). I understand your pain. In this modern age of ever new technologies that intrude in our lives, the more the corporate-fascist state will limit our choices. To think differently is to ignore the facts. Challenge, then, becomes how to maximize personal freedom within a contracting paradigm that emphasizes group over individual.

and you call yourself a Republican? Then post this communist tripe?

Wow.

The "tripe" is factual, PatekPhilippe, and nothing is going to change those facts. The issue is how to deal with them. That is conservative: looking objectively and acting wisely.

 

[JakeStarkey]

boedicca, go back and read what I wrote and then think about it. Then you may grok it.

I did read it. You do not grasp what real private industry is - and how much it has contributed to the high standard of living we enjoy in the U.S.

Have you ever owned a business and paid more than 130 individuals? Honey, I grok that, and, yes, you do not understand the world if you are believe in what you write above.

 

[JakeStarkey]

I swear that some of the reactionaries on the right are much as in la la land as some of our radicals to the left here.