Should Americans who go fight for ISIS/ISIL lose their Citizenship?

[OriginalShroom]

Ted Cruz thinks so and I agree with him.

“Americans who choose to go to Syria or Iraq to fight with vicious ISIS terrorists are party to a terrorist organization committing horrific acts of violence, including beheading innocent American journalists who they have captured,” Cruz said in a statement.

“There can be no clearer renunciation of their citizenship in the United States, and we need to do everything we can to preempt any attempt on their part to re-enter our country and carry out further attacks on American civilians.”

 

[theDoctorisIn]

How do you prove beyond a doubt that someone has "chosen" to go to Syria or Iraq to fight for ISIS?

 

[ScienceRocks]

People like the doctor above should go fight for the ISIS! They aren't on the same side as I am.

Makes perfect sense to remove their citizenship and drop them off in Iraq.

 

[Zander]

If they can prove it- I think it is appropriate, but only after the execution.....

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Aside from a case in which the person involved openly and willingly declares their support for ISIS, I think this would be setting an incredibly dangerous precedent.

 

[Zander]

Aside from a case in which the person involved openly and willingly declares their support for ISIS, I think this would be setting an incredibly dangerous precedent.

How so? If they go to fight with ISIS- they are enemies of the USA, Seems pretty black and white to me....

 

[LuckyDuck01!]

Any american that fights for, financially supports, or attempts to join ISIS/ISIL, al Qaeda, et cetera, should be declared traitors, arrested and shot.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Aside from a case in which the person involved openly and willingly declares their support for ISIS, I think this would be setting an incredibly dangerous precedent.

How so? If they go to fight with ISIS- they are enemies of the USA, Seems pretty black and white to me....

What do you mean by "go to fight with ISIS"?

How do you prove it?

 

[Rikurzhen]

It's Constitutionally impossible to strip a natural born citizen of his citizenship. Naturalized citizens are fair game.

This opens an interesting gambit though. In order to discourage American citizens from renouncing their citizenship the Obama Administration has increased the fees to $2,500, a massive increase. If this measure passes, all people need to do is send a $1 donation to ISIS then send a copy of the donation to the State Department and wait for them to strip you of your citizenship.

 

[Tom Sweetnam]

How do you prove beyond a doubt that someone has "chosen" to go to Syria or Iraq to fight for ISIS?

So if he's caught on video beheading...oh...I don't know...maybe...YOU for instance, and after the fact it can't be proven beyond a reasonable doubt that he actually chose to behead YOU, then he shouldn't be convicted of murder and terrorism on account of maybe he's a typical Islamic terrorist who voted democrat in the last election?

I thought this was a joke thread when I saw the title. Should Isil terrorists lose their citizenship??!! No they shouldn't lose their citizenship, they should lose their fucking lives!!

 

[theDoctorisIn]

How do you prove beyond a doubt that someone has "chosen" to go to Syria or Iraq to fight for ISIS?

So if he's caught on video beheading...oh...I don't know...maybe...YOU for instance, and after the fact it can't be proven beyond a reasonable doubt that he actually chose to behead YOU, then he shouldn't be convicted of murder and terrorism on account of maybe he's a typical Islamic terrorist who voted democrat in the last election?

I thought this was a joke thread when I saw the title. Should Isil terrorists lose their citizenship??!! No they shouldn't lose their citizenship, they should lose their fucking lives!!

What if he's not "caught on video" beheading someone?

Why do you trust the Government to decide whether or not you get to stay a citizen?

 

[Rikurzhen]

Aside from a case in which the person involved openly and willingly declares their support for ISIS, I think this would be setting an incredibly dangerous precedent.

How so? If they go to fight with ISIS- they are enemies of the USA, Seems pretty black and white to me....

What do you mean by "go to fight with ISIS"?

How do you prove it?

We live in a surveillance state, world actually. All you need do is pass legislation barring presence in that warzone. People will leave electronic details as they travel. Monitor Americans overseas as they approach Syria. Have local spies circulating through the crowds and capture images of people. Run them through the NSA super-brains and out pops photo evidence of an American in Syrian territory.

That type of law is simply a variation of the laws we have which bar Americans from going overseas to have sex with children. Don't step foot in Syria, and if you do then you've committed a crime.

Still, we're prevented from stripping natural born citizens of citizenship.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Aside from a case in which the person involved openly and willingly declares their support for ISIS, I think this would be setting an incredibly dangerous precedent.

How so? If they go to fight with ISIS- they are enemies of the USA, Seems pretty black and white to me....

What do you mean by "go to fight with ISIS"?

How do you prove it?

We live in a surveillance state, world actually. All you need do is pass legislation barring presence in that warzone. People will leave electronic details as they travel. Monitor Americans overseas as they approach Syria. Have local spies circulating through the crowds and capture images of people. Run them through the NSA super-brains and out pops photo evidence of an American in Syrian territory.

That type of law is simply a variation of the laws we have which bar Americans from going overseas to have sex with children. Don't step foot in Syria, and if you do then you've committed a crime.

Still, we're prevented from stripping natural born citizens of citizenship.

So, visiting Syria = supporting ISIS?

 

[Rikurzhen]

Aside from a case in which the person involved openly and willingly declares their support for ISIS, I think this would be setting an incredibly dangerous precedent.

How so? If they go to fight with ISIS- they are enemies of the USA, Seems pretty black and white to me....

What do you mean by "go to fight with ISIS"?

How do you prove it?

We live in a surveillance state, world actually. All you need do is pass legislation barring presence in that warzone. People will leave electronic details as they travel. Monitor Americans overseas as they approach Syria. Have local spies circulating through the crowds and capture images of people. Run them through the NSA super-brains and out pops photo evidence of an American in Syrian territory.

That type of law is simply a variation of the laws we have which bar Americans from going overseas to have sex with children. Don't step foot in Syria, and if you do then you've committed a crime.

Still, we're prevented from stripping natural born citizens of citizenship.

So, visiting Syria = supporting ISIS?

Law makes it so. Carry $11,000 cash over a border and see what happens to you, even if you have no intent to use the money for illegal purposes. The law deems your innocent act to be a crime if you don't report the cash.

 

[Tom Sweetnam]

The doctor is obviously a democrat. He has a real ephemeral attitude regarding things like borders.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Aside from a case in which the person involved openly and willingly declares their support for ISIS, I think this would be setting an incredibly dangerous precedent.

How so? If they go to fight with ISIS- they are enemies of the USA, Seems pretty black and white to me....

What do you mean by "go to fight with ISIS"?

How do you prove it?

We live in a surveillance state, world actually. All you need do is pass legislation barring presence in that warzone. People will leave electronic details as they travel. Monitor Americans overseas as they approach Syria. Have local spies circulating through the crowds and capture images of people. Run them through the NSA super-brains and out pops photo evidence of an American in Syrian territory.

That type of law is simply a variation of the laws we have which bar Americans from going overseas to have sex with children. Don't step foot in Syria, and if you do then you've committed a crime.

Still, we're prevented from stripping natural born citizens of citizenship.

So, visiting Syria = supporting ISIS?

Law makes it so. Carry $11,000 cash over a border and see what happens to you, even if you have no intent to use the money for illegal purposes. The law deems your innocent act to be a crime if you don't report the cash.

Well, no such law exists forbidding travel to Syria. Are you suggesting that there should be one?

 

[Tresha91203]

I am not in support of stripping anyone born in the US to a US citizen of their citizenship. If he's proven to be an ISIS terrorist, he gets killed in combat or tried in court, IMO. There is already a process to deal with traitors. American citizens get due process in American courts and I am good with that.

If such a traitor survived combat and is proven guilty of treason, death, IMO.

 

[Rikurzhen]

Aside from a case in which the person involved openly and willingly declares their support for ISIS, I think this would be setting an incredibly dangerous precedent.

How so? If they go to fight with ISIS- they are enemies of the USA, Seems pretty black and white to me....

What do you mean by "go to fight with ISIS"?

How do you prove it?

We live in a surveillance state, world actually. All you need do is pass legislation barring presence in that warzone. People will leave electronic details as they travel. Monitor Americans overseas as they approach Syria. Have local spies circulating through the crowds and capture images of people. Run them through the NSA super-brains and out pops photo evidence of an American in Syrian territory.

That type of law is simply a variation of the laws we have which bar Americans from going overseas to have sex with children. Don't step foot in Syria, and if you do then you've committed a crime.

Still, we're prevented from stripping natural born citizens of citizenship.

So, visiting Syria = supporting ISIS?

Law makes it so. Carry $11,000 cash over a border and see what happens to you, even if you have no intent to use the money for illegal purposes. The law deems your innocent act to be a crime if you don't report the cash.

Well, no such law exists forbidding travel to Syria. Are you suggesting that there should be one?

At this point I'm not suggesting anything. I haven't thought this through. Right now I'm just engaging with you on the "how-to" aspect.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

The doctor is obviously a democrat. He has a real ephemeral attitude regarding things like borders.

I'm not a Democrat, and I haven't said a word about "borders".

 

[Clementine]

How do you prove beyond a doubt that someone has "chosen" to go to Syria or Iraq to fight for ISIS?

If they actually go there and join them, it's a good sign they meant to.

These days, NSA listens in on phone conversations, reads our emails and can watch us. I'm sure they have the goods on everyone.