Should Americans who go fight for ISIS/ISIL lose their Citizenship?

[theDoctorisIn]

I'm not an anarchist either. My signature is song lyrics, I wouldn't try to read too much into it.

I don't know if there's a word for what I am. I think ideologies are dumb.

Maybe you could call me a postmodernist, but I don't know if that really fits either.

How about "confused"?

You can call me "confused" if it makes you feel better, but I think I've got a pretty good handle on my political views.

 

[Tom Sweetnam]

You can call me "confused" if it makes you feel better, but I think I've got a pretty good handle on my political views.

You just spent three posts telling me you don't really have any.

 

[TemplarKormac]

How do you prove beyond a doubt that someone has "chosen" to go to Syria or Iraq to fight for ISIS?

YouTube, Facebook, Twitter... social media in general.

What if they don't "share" it?

How would you use Facebook or Twitter to prove beyond the shadow of a doubt that someone has "joined" ISIS?

Why must you muddy the waters with speculative questions? Terrorists have a sense of bravado that do them in, they will most likely post videos of their own showing how there are Americans defecting to their cause. There are plenty of ways, one of them being the CIA.

You neglected the latter half of my post, which includes the phrase "social media in general" it doesn't necessarily have to be Facebook or Twitter.

When someone suggests removing citizenship from Americans based on poorly defined criteria, it's our fucking jobs to muddy the waters with speculative questions. Otherwise you get shit like the Patriot Act and NSA surveillance.

Ted Cruz suggests that we remove US citizenship from "members" of ISIS to prevent them from returning to the US to commit acts of terror. Wouldn't you assume that if someone was planning on "committing acts of terror" when they got home, they wouldn't post about it on social media beforehand?

We should remove their citizenship. All there is to it. They are traitors to this nation and deserve whatever fate falls upon them.

From the Boston Globe:

Tech-savvy terrorist promoting message on social media

(Boston Globe) – The spotlight that has been cast on the Islamic State terror group in Syria has also put a new focus on a Massachusetts man wanted for terrorism, who is believed to be living in that country and possibly supporting ISIS.

Ahmad Abousamra, who grew up in Stoughton and attended schools in the Boston area, faces terrorism charges in federal court in Boston, and the FBI in December put him on its Most Wanted Terrorists list. A $50,000 reward has been offered for information leading to his capture, and officials believe he has been living in Aleppo, Syria.

ABC News reported this week that officials believe Abousamra may be using his computer and social media skills to support ISIS, or the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria, the terror group that is trying to establish an Islamic state and has claimed responsibility for the beheadings in recent weeks of two American journalists.

The ABC article it cites:

Official American May Be Key in ISIS Social Media Blitz - ABC News

Oh, and Al-Shabaab frequents social media to spew it's murderous rhetoric:

The attacks on the Westgate Centre in Nairobi by Somali terrorist group, al-Shabaab have brought into focus an age old question about how liberal western democracies handle extremists who use mass media as a propaganda tool.

Al-Shabaab were probably the first terrorist group in the world to claim responsibility for an attack via Twitter, but it was only after the Westgate attack that questions were raised about how much publicity terrorist groups ought to have. This followed a series of tweets from al-Shabaab during the attacks which provided updates and explained the rationale behind the atrocities. Almost immediately, there were widespread and horrified calls for the group’s twitter account (@HSMPress) to be suspended and, succumbing to the political and public pressure, Twitter duly obliged and closed down the account.

Al-Shabaab referred to the punitive move by Twitter as “futile”. The technology savvy terrorists then quickly moved to set up a new account (@HSMPress1) and continued tweeting from there until that account was also suspended. They also continue to promote their message and reel in new recruits with their advanced use of other social media sites such as YouTube and Facebook.

It is not clear why anyone is surprised by al-Shabaab’s use of Twitter as an effective weapon of war. Given that the key function of terrorism is to grab the attention of an audience wider than the immediate victims, the use of Twitter by al-Shabaab is in many ways unsurprising. Whether publicizing the attacks online is motivated by a desire to strike fear into the wider community or it is being used to promote the group to a sympathetic audience, Twitter is one of the more obvious and arguably most suitable platforms for achieving this.

Terrorists on Twitter Should extremists be on social networks - The Foreign Report

So as we can tell, terrorists will and do use social media to flout their causes.

 

[deltex1]

How do you prove beyond a doubt that someone has "chosen" to go to Syria or Iraq to fight for ISIS?

Kill them on the battlefield.

 

[waltky]

Yes!

 

[deltex1]

Ted Cruz thinks so and I agree with him.

“Americans who choose to go to Syria or Iraq to fight with vicious ISIS terrorists are party to a terrorist organization committing horrific acts of violence, including beheading innocent American journalists who they have captured,” Cruz said in a statement.

“There can be no clearer renunciation of their citizenship in the United States, and we need to do everything we can to preempt any attempt on their part to re-enter our country and carry out further attacks on American civilians.”

Issue them a death certificate.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

How do you prove beyond a doubt that someone has "chosen" to go to Syria or Iraq to fight for ISIS?

YouTube, Facebook, Twitter... social media in general.

What if they don't "share" it?

How would you use Facebook or Twitter to prove beyond the shadow of a doubt that someone has "joined" ISIS?

Why must you muddy the waters with speculative questions? Terrorists have a sense of bravado that do them in, they will most likely post videos of their own showing how there are Americans defecting to their cause. There are plenty of ways, one of them being the CIA.

You neglected the latter half of my post, which includes the phrase "social media in general" it doesn't necessarily have to be Facebook or Twitter.

When someone suggests removing citizenship from Americans based on poorly defined criteria, it's our fucking jobs to muddy the waters with speculative questions. Otherwise you get shit like the Patriot Act and NSA surveillance.

Ted Cruz suggests that we remove US citizenship from "members" of ISIS to prevent them from returning to the US to commit acts of terror. Wouldn't you assume that if someone was planning on "committing acts of terror" when they got home, they wouldn't post about it on social media beforehand?

We should remove their citizenship. All there is to it. They are traitors to this nation and deserve whatever fate falls upon them.

From the Boston Globe:

SNIPPED FOR SPACE

Terrorists on Twitter Should extremists be on social networks - The Foreign Report

So as we can tell, terrorist will and do use social media to flout their causes.

The fact that terrorists have used social media does not mean that all terrorists use social media, nor does it mean that all people who post on social media are terrorists.

In fact, the use of social media would be nearly useless in determining whether or not an American citizen was "fighting with ISIS".

My point is simple:

1. According to the US Constitution, there's no way to remove citizenship from someone who was born with it.
2. I don't trust the government with that ability, in any event.

 

[TemplarKormac]

How do you prove beyond a doubt that someone has "chosen" to go to Syria or Iraq to fight for ISIS?

YouTube, Facebook, Twitter... social media in general.

What if they don't "share" it?

How would you use Facebook or Twitter to prove beyond the shadow of a doubt that someone has "joined" ISIS?

Why must you muddy the waters with speculative questions? Terrorists have a sense of bravado that do them in, they will most likely post videos of their own showing how there are Americans defecting to their cause. There are plenty of ways, one of them being the CIA.

You neglected the latter half of my post, which includes the phrase "social media in general" it doesn't necessarily have to be Facebook or Twitter.

When someone suggests removing citizenship from Americans based on poorly defined criteria, it's our fucking jobs to muddy the waters with speculative questions. Otherwise you get shit like the Patriot Act and NSA surveillance.

Ted Cruz suggests that we remove US citizenship from "members" of ISIS to prevent them from returning to the US to commit acts of terror. Wouldn't you assume that if someone was planning on "committing acts of terror" when they got home, they wouldn't post about it on social media beforehand?

We should remove their citizenship. All there is to it. They are traitors to this nation and deserve whatever fate falls upon them.

From the Boston Globe:

SNIPPED FOR SPACE

Terrorists on Twitter Should extremists be on social networks - The Foreign Report

So as we can tell, terrorist will and do use social media to flout their causes.

The fact that terrorists have used social media does not mean that all terrorists use social media, nor does it mean that all people who post on social media are terrorists.

In fact, the use of social media would be nearly useless in determining whether or not an American citizen was "fighting with ISIS".

My point is simple:

1. According to the US Constitution, there's no way to remove citizenship from someone who was born with it.
2. I don't trust the government with that ability, in any event.

Those who commit acts of war against the US are guilty of treason. No way around it. You make yourself an enemy of the state when you take up arms against them. You are simply shifting the goalposts, Doc. Terrorists STILL use social media, and I did not imply that anyone who uses social media are terrorists.

 

[Rikurzhen]

How do you prove beyond a doubt that someone has "chosen" to go to Syria or Iraq to fight for ISIS?

YouTube, Facebook, Twitter... social media in general.

What if they don't "share" it?

How would you use Facebook or Twitter to prove beyond the shadow of a doubt that someone has "joined" ISIS?

Why must you muddy the waters with speculative questions? Terrorists have a sense of bravado that do them in, they will most likely post videos of their own showing how there are Americans defecting to their cause. There are plenty of ways, one of them being the CIA.

You neglected the latter half of my post, which includes the phrase "social media in general" it doesn't necessarily have to be Facebook or Twitter.

When someone suggests removing citizenship from Americans based on poorly defined criteria, it's our fucking jobs to muddy the waters with speculative questions. Otherwise you get shit like the Patriot Act and NSA surveillance.

Ted Cruz suggests that we remove US citizenship from "members" of ISIS to prevent them from returning to the US to commit acts of terror. Wouldn't you assume that if someone was planning on "committing acts of terror" when they got home, they wouldn't post about it on social media beforehand?

We should remove their citizenship. All there is to it. They are traitors to this nation and deserve whatever fate falls upon them.

From the Boston Globe:

SNIPPED FOR SPACE

Terrorists on Twitter Should extremists be on social networks - The Foreign Report

So as we can tell, terrorist will and do use social media to flout their causes.

The fact that terrorists have used social media does not mean that all terrorists use social media, nor does it mean that all people who post on social media are terrorists.

In fact, the use of social media would be nearly useless in determining whether or not an American citizen was "fighting with ISIS".

My point is simple:

1. According to the US Constitution, there's no way to remove citizenship from someone who was born with it.
2. I don't trust the government with that ability, in any event.

Those who commit acts of war against the US are guilty of treason. No way around it. You make yourself an enemy of the state when you take up arms against them. You are simply shifting the goalposts, Doc. Terrorists STILL use social media, and I did not imply that anyone who uses social media are terrorists.

Fighting for ISIS ≠ Treason against the US.

 

[Bill Angel]

The US government has gone after Americans affiliated with al Qaeda with drone strikes. It should go after these people as well.

 

[AvgGuyIA]

Ted Cruz thinks so and I agree with him.

“Americans who choose to go to Syria or Iraq to fight with vicious ISIS terrorists are party to a terrorist organization committing horrific acts of violence, including beheading innocent American journalists who they have captured,” Cruz said in a statement.

“There can be no clearer renunciation of their citizenship in the United States, and we need to do everything we can to preempt any attempt on their part to re-enter our country and carry out further attacks on American civilians.”

Fuck yeah!

 

[AvgGuyIA]

Ted Cruz thinks so and I agree with him.

“Americans who choose to go to Syria or Iraq to fight with vicious ISIS terrorists are party to a terrorist organization committing horrific acts of violence, including beheading innocent American journalists who they have captured,” Cruz said in a statement.

“There can be no clearer renunciation of their citizenship in the United States, and we need to do everything we can to preempt any attempt on their part to re-enter our country and carry out further attacks on American civilians.”

Substitute "choose to vote Democrat" too.

 

[deltex1]

How do you prove beyond a doubt that someone has "chosen" to go to Syria or Iraq to fight for ISIS?

YouTube, Facebook, Twitter... social media in general.

What if they don't "share" it?

How would you use Facebook or Twitter to prove beyond the shadow of a doubt that someone has "joined" ISIS?

Why must you muddy the waters with speculative questions? Terrorists have a sense of bravado that do them in, they will most likely post videos of their own showing how there are Americans defecting to their cause. There are plenty of ways, one of them being the CIA.

You neglected the latter half of my post, which includes the phrase "social media in general" it doesn't necessarily have to be Facebook or Twitter.

When someone suggests removing citizenship from Americans based on poorly defined criteria, it's our fucking jobs to muddy the waters with speculative questions. Otherwise you get shit like the Patriot Act and NSA surveillance.

Ted Cruz suggests that we remove US citizenship from "members" of ISIS to prevent them from returning to the US to commit acts of terror. Wouldn't you assume that if someone was planning on "committing acts of terror" when they got home, they wouldn't post about it on social media beforehand?

We should remove their citizenship. All there is to it. They are traitors to this nation and deserve whatever fate falls upon them.

From the Boston Globe:

SNIPPED FOR SPACE

Terrorists on Twitter Should extremists be on social networks - The Foreign Report

So as we can tell, terrorist will and do use social media to flout their causes.

The fact that terrorists have used social media does not mean that all terrorists use social media, nor does it mean that all people who post on social media are terrorists.

In fact, the use of social media would be nearly useless in determining whether or not an American citizen was "fighting with ISIS".

My point is simple:

1. According to the US Constitution, there's no way to remove citizenship from someone who was born with it.
2. I don't trust the government with that ability, in any event.

My point was simpler.

 

[Peach]

People like the doctor above should go fight for the ISIS! They aren't on the same side as I am.

Makes perfect sense to remove their citizenship and drop them off in Iraq.

I prefer to place any of the referenced individuals on trial.

 

[Jarhead]

How do you prove beyond a doubt that someone has "chosen" to go to Syria or Iraq to fight for ISIS?

That is what a trial for treason is for.
ISIS has declared war on the US. If a US citizen is accused of joining the fight against the US, they are brought up on charges of treason. If found guilty of treason, losing their citizenship is a moot point...and most likely the least of the consequences.

 

[Jarhead]

How do you prove beyond a doubt that someone has "chosen" to go to Syria or Iraq to fight for ISIS?

YouTube, Facebook, Twitter... social media in general.

What if they don't "share" it?

How would you use Facebook or Twitter to prove beyond the shadow of a doubt that someone has "joined" ISIS?

How does any court of law find someone guilty of a crime?

 

[Billy000]

Am I supposed to pat Ted Cruz on the back for saying something logical? Granted it is rare, but this isn't worth quoting.

 

[Peach]

How do you prove beyond a doubt that someone has "chosen" to go to Syria or Iraq to fight for ISIS?

YouTube, Facebook, Twitter... social media in general.

What if they don't "share" it?

How would you use Facebook or Twitter to prove beyond the shadow of a doubt that someone has "joined" ISIS?

Why must you muddy the waters with speculative questions? Terrorists have a sense of bravado that do them in, they will most likely post videos of their own showing how there are Americans defecting to their cause. There are plenty of ways, one of them being the CIA.

You neglected the latter half of my post, which includes the phrase "social media in general" it doesn't necessarily have to be Facebook or Twitter.

When someone suggests removing citizenship from Americans based on poorly defined criteria, it's our fucking jobs to muddy the waters with speculative questions. Otherwise you get shit like the Patriot Act and NSA surveillance.

Ted Cruz suggests that we remove US citizenship from "members" of ISIS to prevent them from returning to the US to commit acts of terror. Wouldn't you assume that if someone was planning on "committing acts of terror" when they got home, they wouldn't post about it on social media beforehand?

We should remove their citizenship. All there is to it. They are traitors to this nation and deserve whatever fate falls upon them.

From the Boston Globe:

SNIPPED FOR SPACE

Terrorists on Twitter Should extremists be on social networks - The Foreign Report

So as we can tell, terrorist will and do use social media to flout their causes.

The fact that terrorists have used social media does not mean that all terrorists use social media, nor does it mean that all people who post on social media are terrorists.

In fact, the use of social media would be nearly useless in determining whether or not an American citizen was "fighting with ISIS".

My point is simple:

1. According to the US Constitution, there's no way to remove citizenship from someone who was born with it.
2. I don't trust the government with that ability, in any event.

No, one cannot revoke citizenship, I prefer those who are American die while cleaning their firearms, practicing, or spend life in a prison after capture.........preferably in Syria, Iraq, or Isreal........US prisons have to provide minimum food, shelter, and water. No torture allowed.

 

[Jarhead]

Am I supposed to pat Ted Cruz on the back for saying something logical? Granted it is rare, but this isn't worth quoting.

its a debate board, child.
The quote was posted so it can be debated.

You prefer to use this board to rant like a child....go for it.

But don't criticize the rest of us for posting quotes and opening them up for debate.

 

[Billy000]

Am I supposed to pat Ted Cruz on the back for saying something logical? Granted it is rare, but this isn't worth quoting.

its a debate board, child.
The quote was posted so it can be debated.

You prefer to use this board to rant like a child....go for it.

But don't criticize the rest of us for posting quotes and opening them up for debate.

Is there even a debate over this?