Should Churches be forced to accomodate for homosexual weddings?

[RKMBrown]

"Should places of worship be required to hold gay weddings" means nothing about the legality of marriage equality.

Except that that is not true since we have the stupid, and unconstitutional, public accommodation laws.

You can deny it all you want Jake, one day a gay will sue a Christian Church to force them to allow their wedding. People are assholes and do shit like that just to prove they are assholes.

I mean I never thought I'd see the day when a court ordered a school to let a boy use the girl's restroom either. And honestly, I doubt that even 5 years ago YOU would thought it would have happened, or supported it either.

How many times are you gonna get this wrong? Public accommodation laws have nothing to do with religious marriage ceremonies held at a church. How many times? Seriously? What part is confusing you about the fact that marriage ceremonies at churches are not a service that is for sale to the public?

Not just that, but they have been challenged and were found constitutional. Why do they ignore that fact?

FUD. Someone said it happened and the FUD just keeps getting thrown around. The bear latched onto that for sale public pavilion thing and just won't let go. He's like a bulldawg with jaws clamped down on public accommodation and he's not gonna let go.

I understand his point... guys like him and I really just don't like being TOLD what to do. Our businesses are ours no one else's.

But it's not just about our businesses... PA is about consumer protection. The liberty to spend the money you earned in the public market place. The liberty to not be subject to oligopolies run by bigots in the public market place.

 

[Seawytch]

"Should places of worship be required to hold gay weddings" means nothing about the legality of marriage equality.

Except that that is not true since we have the stupid, and unconstitutional, public accommodation laws.

You can deny it all you want Jake, one day a gay will sue a Christian Church to force them to allow their wedding. People are assholes and do shit like that just to prove they are assholes.

I mean I never thought I'd see the day when a court ordered a school to let a boy use the girl's restroom either. And honestly, I doubt that even 5 years ago YOU would thought it would have happened, or supported it either.

How many times are you gonna get this wrong? Public accommodation laws have nothing to do with religious marriage ceremonies held at a church. How many times? Seriously? What part is confusing you about the fact that marriage ceremonies at churches are not a service that is for sale to the public?

Not just that, but they have been challenged and were found constitutional. Why do they ignore that fact?

FUD. Someone said it happened and the FUD just keeps getting thrown around. The bear latched onto that for sale public pavilion thing and just won't let go. He's like a bulldawg with jaws clamped down on public accommodation and he's not gonna let go.

I understand his point... guys like him and I really just don't like being TOLD what to do. Our businesses are ours no one else's.

But it's not just about our businesses... PA is about consumer protection. The liberty to spend the money you earned in the public market place. The liberty to not be subject to oligopolies run by bigots in the public market place.

I understand the point too. If I owned a business, I'd want to kick all jesus loving bible thumpers out...but PA laws prevent me from doing so and have for decades. Did they bitch about those? Fuck no...they only care about them because they protect ME in some places just like they protect them...and we just can't have THAT!

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

You can deny it all you want Jake, one day a gay will sue a Christian Church to force them to allow their wedding. People are assholes and do shit like that just to prove they are assholes.

Oh a gay suing a Christian church is an absolute certainty. Almost as much as that gay getting laughed out of court.

That's all I'm saying. It WILL happen. I never said the gay would win.

Some here just can't read apparently.

 

[RKMBrown]

You can deny it all you want Jake, one day a gay will sue a Christian Church to force them to allow their wedding. People are assholes and do shit like that just to prove they are assholes.

Oh a gay suing a Christian church is an absolute certainty. Almost as much as that gay getting laughed out of court.

That's all I'm saying. It WILL happen. I never said the gay would win.

Some here just can't read apparently.

Anyone can sue anyone for anything.

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

You can deny it all you want Jake, one day a gay will sue a Christian Church to force them to allow their wedding. People are assholes and do shit like that just to prove they are assholes.

Oh a gay suing a Christian church is an absolute certainty. Almost as much as that gay getting laughed out of court.

That's all I'm saying. It WILL happen. I never said the gay would win.

Some here just can't read apparently.

Anyone can sue anyone for anything.

This is of course true. But the point remains, people sue over silly shit today that no court would have entertained 20 years ago, and as silly lawsuits become the norm , pressure will be put on the courts to rule in favor of the "injured" party. Especially given the overall anger towards Christians in this country lately.

Don't tell me you can't see the very real possibility of some stupid ass circuit court ruling in favor of a gay. Sure , as of right NOW SCOTUS would overturn, but will they in 10 years? I'm doubtful as we slide further and further into the abyss of stupidity where people don't understand that their rights end where another person's begin.

As I said, 10 years ago, if you had suggested a Christian baker would be ordered by a court to bake a cake for a wedding you would have A) Scoffed at the idea of a gay suing over such a thing rather than just going to a different baker and B) said that there was no way a court would even entertain the case let alone found in the fags favor.

I've honestly never seen 3% of the population cause so much angst and turmoil. They should be embarrassed, I'm embarrassed for them. as they prove time and time again that they are not just wanting EQUALITY. They want to force their lifestyle on everyone.

 

[Seawytch]

You can deny it all you want Jake, one day a gay will sue a Christian Church to force them to allow their wedding. People are assholes and do shit like that just to prove they are assholes.

Oh a gay suing a Christian church is an absolute certainty. Almost as much as that gay getting laughed out of court.

That's all I'm saying. It WILL happen. I never said the gay would win.

Some here just can't read apparently.

You're being ridiculous for nothing. Good to know...

No case would even get off the ground.

 

[JakeStarkey]

averagebear, like many average field grade officers, misjudge their understanding of issues beyond their training and experience. He does so with this issue.

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

averagebear, like many average field grade officers, misjudge their understanding of issues beyond their training and experience. He does so with this issue.[/QUOTE

I am pro gay marriage Jake. I merely point out that they have an agenda, and forcing churches to marry them is on that agenda.

On that note, why the hell are churches exempt from SOME laws? I mean that is ridiculous. If the separation of church and state that allegedly was meant to exist in this country allows churches to be exempt from SOME laws, then they should be exempt from ALL laws because let's say for instance a Church that believes in killing non believers should be exempt from laws against murder . Oh , people have a right to not be murdered you say? Well, allegedly people have a right to force businesses to do business with them to, how are Churches exempt from those laws?

And I believe that is EXACTLY the route faggots are going to take , and they will be legally correct. The government IS picking and choosing religions when they say "okay if you don't believe in gay marriage you don't have to perform gay marriages" to one religion while telling another religion " oh you believe murder is acceptable? Too fucking bad" to another religion.


and churches ARE businesses

Mega churches mean big business - CNN.com

 

[RKMBrown]

You can deny it all you want Jake, one day a gay will sue a Christian Church to force them to allow their wedding. People are assholes and do shit like that just to prove they are assholes.

Oh a gay suing a Christian church is an absolute certainty. Almost as much as that gay getting laughed out of court.

That's all I'm saying. It WILL happen. I never said the gay would win.

Some here just can't read apparently.

Anyone can sue anyone for anything.

This is of course true. But the point remains, people sue over silly shit today that no court would have entertained 20 years ago, and as silly lawsuits become the norm , pressure will be put on the courts to rule in favor of the "injured" party. Especially given the overall anger towards Christians in this country lately.

Don't tell me you can't see the very real possibility of some stupid ass circuit court ruling in favor of a gay. Sure , as of right NOW SCOTUS would overturn, but will they in 10 years? I'm doubtful as we slide further and further into the abyss of stupidity where people don't understand that their rights end where another person's begin.

As I said, 10 years ago, if you had suggested a Christian baker would be ordered by a court to bake a cake for a wedding you would have A) Scoffed at the idea of a gay suing over such a thing rather than just going to a different baker and B) said that there was no way a court would even entertain the case let alone found in the fags favor.

I've honestly never seen 3% of the population cause so much angst and turmoil. They should be embarrassed, I'm embarrassed for them. as they prove time and time again that they are not just wanting EQUALITY. They want to force their lifestyle on everyone.

No I can't see courts forcing a church to join two gays in holy matrimony against the church's will. I think you are sort of missing the point behind the religious ceremony. Maybe mixing it up with the govco marriage license thing. They could sue a ships captn. to marry them on a ship... but that's not necessarily a religious marriage ceremony. Marriage does not equal religious ceremony.

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

You can deny it all you want Jake, one day a gay will sue a Christian Church to force them to allow their wedding. People are assholes and do shit like that just to prove they are assholes.

Oh a gay suing a Christian church is an absolute certainty. Almost as much as that gay getting laughed out of court.

That's all I'm saying. It WILL happen. I never said the gay would win.

Some here just can't read apparently.

Anyone can sue anyone for anything.

This is of course true. But the point remains, people sue over silly shit today that no court would have entertained 20 years ago, and as silly lawsuits become the norm , pressure will be put on the courts to rule in favor of the "injured" party. Especially given the overall anger towards Christians in this country lately.

Don't tell me you can't see the very real possibility of some stupid ass circuit court ruling in favor of a gay. Sure , as of right NOW SCOTUS would overturn, but will they in 10 years? I'm doubtful as we slide further and further into the abyss of stupidity where people don't understand that their rights end where another person's begin.

As I said, 10 years ago, if you had suggested a Christian baker would be ordered by a court to bake a cake for a wedding you would have A) Scoffed at the idea of a gay suing over such a thing rather than just going to a different baker and B) said that there was no way a court would even entertain the case let alone found in the fags favor.

I've honestly never seen 3% of the population cause so much angst and turmoil. They should be embarrassed, I'm embarrassed for them. as they prove time and time again that they are not just wanting EQUALITY. They want to force their lifestyle on everyone.

No I can't see courts forcing a church to join two gays in holy matrimony against the church's will.

see
Should Churches be forced to accomodate for homosexual weddings Page 164 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

RKMBrown don't ignore the above post

 

[Silhouette]

No I can't see courts forcing a church to join two gays in holy matrimony against the church's will. I think you are sort of missing the point behind the religious ceremony. Maybe mixing it up with the govco marriage license thing. They could sue a ships captn. to marry them on a ship... but that's not necessarily a religious marriage ceremony. Marriage does not equal religious ceremony.

But I'm sure you can see the courts forcing churches to adopt orphans to go to gay pride homes in violation of their core faith...or risk losing public funding to keep their orphans in care...

 

[RKMBrown]

You can deny it all you want Jake, one day a gay will sue a Christian Church to force them to allow their wedding. People are assholes and do shit like that just to prove they are assholes.

Oh a gay suing a Christian church is an absolute certainty. Almost as much as that gay getting laughed out of court.

That's all I'm saying. It WILL happen. I never said the gay would win.

Some here just can't read apparently.

Anyone can sue anyone for anything.

This is of course true. But the point remains, people sue over silly shit today that no court would have entertained 20 years ago, and as silly lawsuits become the norm , pressure will be put on the courts to rule in favor of the "injured" party. Especially given the overall anger towards Christians in this country lately.

Don't tell me you can't see the very real possibility of some stupid ass circuit court ruling in favor of a gay. Sure , as of right NOW SCOTUS would overturn, but will they in 10 years? I'm doubtful as we slide further and further into the abyss of stupidity where people don't understand that their rights end where another person's begin.

As I said, 10 years ago, if you had suggested a Christian baker would be ordered by a court to bake a cake for a wedding you would have A) Scoffed at the idea of a gay suing over such a thing rather than just going to a different baker and B) said that there was no way a court would even entertain the case let alone found in the fags favor.

I've honestly never seen 3% of the population cause so much angst and turmoil. They should be embarrassed, I'm embarrassed for them. as they prove time and time again that they are not just wanting EQUALITY. They want to force their lifestyle on everyone.

Some gays want to force their lifestyle... some straights want to use them to make themselves look cool Some hetero's want to force their religious views on gays.

 

[RKMBrown]

No I can't see courts forcing a church to join two gays in holy matrimony against the church's will. I think you are sort of missing the point behind the religious ceremony. Maybe mixing it up with the govco marriage license thing. They could sue a ships captn. to marry them on a ship... but that's not necessarily a religious marriage ceremony. Marriage does not equal religious ceremony.

But I'm sure you can see the courts forcing churches to adopt orphans to go to gay pride homes in violation of their core faith...or risk losing public funding to keep their orphans in care...

Yes, that could happen. You go public.. public rules come with the money.

 

[Seawytch]

You can deny it all you want Jake, one day a gay will sue a Christian Church to force them to allow their wedding. People are assholes and do shit like that just to prove they are assholes.

Oh a gay suing a Christian church is an absolute certainty. Almost as much as that gay getting laughed out of court.

That's all I'm saying. It WILL happen. I never said the gay would win.

Some here just can't read apparently.

Anyone can sue anyone for anything.

This is of course true. But the point remains, people sue over silly shit today that no court would have entertained 20 years ago, and as silly lawsuits become the norm , pressure will be put on the courts to rule in favor of the "injured" party. Especially given the overall anger towards Christians in this country lately.

Don't tell me you can't see the very real possibility of some stupid ass circuit court ruling in favor of a gay. Sure , as of right NOW SCOTUS would overturn, but will they in 10 years? I'm doubtful as we slide further and further into the abyss of stupidity where people don't understand that their rights end where another person's begin.

As I said, 10 years ago, if you had suggested a Christian baker would be ordered by a court to bake a cake for a wedding you would have A) Scoffed at the idea of a gay suing over such a thing rather than just going to a different baker and B) said that there was no way a court would even entertain the case let alone found in the fags favor.

I've honestly never seen 3% of the population cause so much angst and turmoil. They should be embarrassed, I'm embarrassed for them. as they prove time and time again that they are not just wanting EQUALITY. They want to force their lifestyle on everyone.

No I can't see courts forcing a church to join two gays in holy matrimony against the church's will. I think you are sort of missing the point behind the religious ceremony. Maybe mixing it up with the govco marriage license thing. They could sue a ships captn. to marry them on a ship... but that's not necessarily a religious marriage ceremony. Marriage does not equal religious ceremony.

I don't think they could even sue a ship's captain. They could sue a city clerk or someone who performs civil ceremonies as an integral part of their job like a JOP, but even a ship's captain would be a stretch of a lawsuit will little to no chance of winning.

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

Oh a gay suing a Christian church is an absolute certainty. Almost as much as that gay getting laughed out of court.

That's all I'm saying. It WILL happen. I never said the gay would win.

Some here just can't read apparently.

Anyone can sue anyone for anything.

This is of course true. But the point remains, people sue over silly shit today that no court would have entertained 20 years ago, and as silly lawsuits become the norm , pressure will be put on the courts to rule in favor of the "injured" party. Especially given the overall anger towards Christians in this country lately.

Don't tell me you can't see the very real possibility of some stupid ass circuit court ruling in favor of a gay. Sure , as of right NOW SCOTUS would overturn, but will they in 10 years? I'm doubtful as we slide further and further into the abyss of stupidity where people don't understand that their rights end where another person's begin.

As I said, 10 years ago, if you had suggested a Christian baker would be ordered by a court to bake a cake for a wedding you would have A) Scoffed at the idea of a gay suing over such a thing rather than just going to a different baker and B) said that there was no way a court would even entertain the case let alone found in the fags favor.

I've honestly never seen 3% of the population cause so much angst and turmoil. They should be embarrassed, I'm embarrassed for them. as they prove time and time again that they are not just wanting EQUALITY. They want to force their lifestyle on everyone.

No I can't see courts forcing a church to join two gays in holy matrimony against the church's will. I think you are sort of missing the point behind the religious ceremony. Maybe mixing it up with the govco marriage license thing. They could sue a ships captn. to marry them on a ship... but that's not necessarily a religious marriage ceremony. Marriage does not equal religious ceremony.

I don't think they could even sue a ship's captain. They could sue a city clerk or someone who performs civil ceremonies as an integral part of their job like a JOP, but even a ship's captain would be a stretch of a lawsuit will little to no chance of winning.

Pray tell why you believe a ship's captain would be exempt.

 

[RKMBrown]

Oh a gay suing a Christian church is an absolute certainty. Almost as much as that gay getting laughed out of court.

That's all I'm saying. It WILL happen. I never said the gay would win.

Some here just can't read apparently.

Anyone can sue anyone for anything.

This is of course true. But the point remains, people sue over silly shit today that no court would have entertained 20 years ago, and as silly lawsuits become the norm , pressure will be put on the courts to rule in favor of the "injured" party. Especially given the overall anger towards Christians in this country lately.

Don't tell me you can't see the very real possibility of some stupid ass circuit court ruling in favor of a gay. Sure , as of right NOW SCOTUS would overturn, but will they in 10 years? I'm doubtful as we slide further and further into the abyss of stupidity where people don't understand that their rights end where another person's begin.

As I said, 10 years ago, if you had suggested a Christian baker would be ordered by a court to bake a cake for a wedding you would have A) Scoffed at the idea of a gay suing over such a thing rather than just going to a different baker and B) said that there was no way a court would even entertain the case let alone found in the fags favor.

I've honestly never seen 3% of the population cause so much angst and turmoil. They should be embarrassed, I'm embarrassed for them. as they prove time and time again that they are not just wanting EQUALITY. They want to force their lifestyle on everyone.

No I can't see courts forcing a church to join two gays in holy matrimony against the church's will. I think you are sort of missing the point behind the religious ceremony. Maybe mixing it up with the govco marriage license thing. They could sue a ships captn. to marry them on a ship... but that's not necessarily a religious marriage ceremony. Marriage does not equal religious ceremony.

I don't think they could even sue a ship's captain. They could sue a city clerk or someone who performs civil ceremonies as an integral part of their job like a JOP, but even a ship's captain would be a stretch of a lawsuit will little to no chance of winning.

I'd take that bet, especially for a cruise ship where the ship advertises weddings may be performed by the captain for the price of a ticket.

 

[WorldWatcher]

Pray tell why you believe a ship's captain would be exempt.

I'd take that bet, especially for a cruise ship where the ship advertises weddings may be performed by the captain for the price of a ticket.

What You Need to Know to Get Married at Sea
The Straight Dope Are ships captains allowed to marry people at sea
Can Boat Captains Really Marry People Mental Floss



>>>>

 

[RKMBrown]

averagebear, like many average field grade officers, misjudge their understanding of issues beyond their training and experience. He does so with this issue.[/QUOTE

I am pro gay marriage Jake. I merely point out that they have an agenda, and forcing churches to marry them is on that agenda.

On that note, why the hell are churches exempt from SOME laws? I mean that is ridiculous. If the separation of church and state that allegedly was meant to exist in this country allows churches to be exempt from SOME laws, then they should be exempt from ALL laws because let's say for instance a Church that believes in killing non believers should be exempt from laws against murder . Oh , people have a right to not be murdered you say? Well, allegedly people have a right to force businesses to do business with them to, how are Churches exempt from those laws?

And I believe that is EXACTLY the route faggots are going to take , and they will be legally correct. The government IS picking and choosing religions when they say "okay if you don't believe in gay marriage you don't have to perform gay marriages" to one religion while telling another religion " oh you believe murder is acceptable? Too fucking bad" to another religion.


and churches ARE businesses

Mega churches mean big business - CNN.com

Churches are exempt from some laws, because they are "private" organizations, and because they are protected by the 1st Amendment. The constitution is VERY CLEAR regarding the protections afforded to religion in this country.

Liberty does not mean the liberty to KILL people.

Churches are not exempt from public accommodation laws. If a church puts up a table selling pumpkins at the local farmers market, they can't discriminate who they sell to.

The religious ceremonies held in a church are not for sale to the public.

 

[RKMBrown]

Pray tell why you believe a ship's captain would be exempt.

I'd take that bet, especially for a cruise ship where the ship advertises weddings may be performed by the captain for the price of a ticket.

What You Need to Know to Get Married at Sea
The Straight Dope Are ships captains allowed to marry people at sea
Can Boat Captains Really Marry People Mental Floss



>>>>

My wife's a Notary Public, it's not hard to become one.

 

[Syriusly]

No I can't see courts forcing a church to join two gays in holy matrimony against the church's will. I think you are sort of missing the point behind the religious ceremony. Maybe mixing it up with the govco marriage license thing. They could sue a ships captn. to marry them on a ship... but that's not necessarily a religious marriage ceremony. Marriage does not equal religious ceremony.

But I'm sure you can see the courts forcing churches to adopt orphans to go to gay pride homes in violation of their core faith...or risk losing public funding to keep their orphans in care...

Churches are not orphanages.

Orphanages are not churches.