Should Churches be forced to accomodate for homosexual weddings?

[Skylar]

The enlistment of the feds could be the same as what you are speaking of above, and has that been the game all along in so many ways ? Without the feds, where would all this be right now I wonder ? Oh that's right the people would be the deciding factor again, and then where would all that be I wonder ?

As the USSC demonstrated when they overturned interracial marriage bans in Loving V. Virgnia, the people don't have the authority to vote away the rights of minorities. Any law of the States are subject to constitutional guarantees. With the 14th amendment forbiding the States from violating the priveledges and immunities of Federal Citizens.

Which every American is.

Is the nation suffering under a form of tyranny found in our government now, where as the will of the people is being subverted or denied on a grand scale over so many issues, and in this we find that the peoples will is no longer allowed in America or is even being supported any longer in America (Gruber of Obamacare did say we are all Dumb ya know) ? Who are the Americans of 2014 now, and what exactly do they want really ?

You're literally arguing for the tyranny of the majority, where the majority can vote away the rights of anyone. Do you hold the sanctity of State statutory law as reverently in say.....McDonald V. Chicago? After all, the law that forbid handguns within the city limits was passed by representatives of the people, using the people's authority. Yet the 'enlistment' of the fed overturned the people's will.

Many conservatives are quite happy to have the federal government interfere with State laws....as long as it deals with rights they think the people should have.

 

[Where_r_my_Keys]

MOST PEOPLE REJECT YOUR IDEAS... because your ideas rest in the perversion of human reasoning; deviant reasoning, which, by its very nature represents a threat to the very viability of the culture, itself.

Says you, citing yourself.

I'm citing the vast majority of the people, who elected the vast majority of representatives who passed the laws in the vast majority of the states which recognized the natural standards defining marriage.

 

[Where_r_my_Keys]

The enlistment of the feds could be the same as what you are speaking of above, and has that been the game all along in so many ways ? Without the feds, where would all this be right now I wonder ? Oh that's right the people would be the deciding factor again, and then where would all that be I wonder ?

As the USSC demonstrated when they overturned interracial marriage bans in Loving V. Virgnia,

Loving is irrelevant, as Loving speaks to genetic issues which result in traits that an individual has absolutely no control over.

Sexual Abnormality is NOT GENETIC, it is a perversion of human reasoning which represents a threat to the culture, where such is tolerated.

 

[Skylar]

However in REALITY: The TRUE 'polls' indicate that the VAST MAJORITY of the People who are elected by the VAST MAJORITY OF THE PEOPLE, reject the Advocacy to Normalize Sexual Abnormality, having set IN LAW the natural, defining attributes of Marriage, with MOST having set such into their State Constitutions.

You're not 'the People'.

I actually am, one OF the people. Who voted for those who represent me, who passed laws recognizing the natural standards that define marriage, which preclude lowering those standards in law to accommodate the perverse reasoning which would reject natural law, and bring the subsequent catastrophe that inevitably follows such.

You're a person. You don't define public sentiment all by yourself. Nor do you exercise the People's power.

Is..is this where you go off on your little 'i'm immune from all laws' schtick? If so, save it. Your delusion of immunity from all laws has nothing to do with public opinion polls or the rights of gays and lesbians to same sex marriage. Rendering it yet another red herring.

If you have any evidence that the dozens of polls indicating that strong support for gay marriage legality are somehow fraudulent, by all means present it. You have no such evidence. Leaving you with your own personal opinion vs. the results of dozens of scientific polls involving tens of thousands of people. Your feelings no more define public sentiment than they do other people's rights.

Get used to the idea.

 

[Where_r_my_Keys]

Is the nation suffering under a form of tyranny found in our government now, where as the will of the people is being subverted or denied on a grand scale over so many issues, and in this we find that the peoples will is no longer allowed in America or is even being supported any longer in America (Gruber of Obamacare did say we are all Dumb ya know) ? Who are the Americans of 2014 now, and what exactly do they want really ?

You're literally arguing for the tyranny of the majority...

False... they are speaking to the RIGHT of the individual to recognize the laws of nature and preclude behavior which falls outside of the standard represented BY SUCH, and to set such into law, as a means to defend the viability of the culture.

 

[Skylar]

MOST PEOPLE REJECT YOUR IDEAS... because your ideas rest in the perversion of human reasoning; deviant reasoning, which, by its very nature represents a threat to the very viability of the culture, itself.

Says you, citing yourself.

I'm citing the vast majority of the people, who elected the vast majority of representatives who passed the laws in the vast majority of the states which recognized the natural standards defining marriage.

You're citing election results from 2008 or earlier. I'm citing polling results from several months ago. The more recent polling samples demonstrate a much more accurate picture of support for the legality of gay marriage today....then do results from 6 years ago.

Obviously.

 

[Where_r_my_Keys]

You're a person. You don't define public sentiment... .

True, the Public does that... and the VAST MAJORITY OF THE PUBLIC, IN THE VAST MAJORITY OF THE STATES, ELECTED THE VAST MAJORITY OF THE REPRESENTATIVES WHO PASSED LAWS WHICH SUSTAINED THE NATURAL LAWS THAT DEFINE MARRIAGE.

 

[Where_r_my_Keys]

You're citing election results

Yep... The only 'polls' that COUNT!

 

[Skylar]

Is the nation suffering under a form of tyranny found in our government now, where as the will of the people is being subverted or denied on a grand scale over so many issues, and in this we find that the peoples will is no longer allowed in America or is even being supported any longer in America (Gruber of Obamacare did say we are all Dumb ya know) ? Who are the Americans of 2014 now, and what exactly do they want really ?

You're literally arguing for the tyranny of the majority...

False... they are speaking to the RIGHT of the individual to recognize the laws of nature and preclude behavior which falls outside of the standard represented BY SUCH, and to set such into law, as a means to defend the viability of the culture.

No individual has the right to vote away the fundamental rights of another. Marriage is a fundamental right. And since marriage has more than one valid purpose, your 'laws of nature' schtick is irrelevant. As there are valid bases of marriage that have nothing to do with having children. As demonstrated by the valid marriages of infertile couples.

Debunking the foundation tenet of your inadequate belief system. And rendering your claims logically baseless and legally irrelevant.

 

[Skylar]

You're citing election results

Yep... The only 'polls' that COUNT!

Obviously not, as the outcome of Prop 8 and every other gay marriage ban overturned by the Federal Judiciary demonstrates.

 

[Skylar]

You're a person. You don't define public sentiment... .

True, the Public does that... and the VAST MAJORITY OF THE PUBLIC, IN THE VAST MAJORITY OF THE STATES, ELECTED THE VAST MAJORITY OF THE REPRESENTATIVES WHO PASSED LAWS WHICH SUSTAINED THE NATURAL LAWS THAT DEFINE MARRIAGE.

And did so 6 or more years ago. We're discussing public sentiment today...not more than half a decade ago. And support for gay marriage has skyrocketed since about 2011. And only continues to rise. Now leading opposition by 12 to 19 points, depending on the poll.

With virtually every of about 3 dozen polls showing strong support for the legality of gay marriage. You can ignore these polling results. But you can't make us ignore them. Or make the public ignore their own growing support for the legality of gay marriage.

Alas, the world doesn't disappear just because you close your eyes. Or start screaming in CAPS.

 

[Where_r_my_Keys]

Look Scamp... you need to understand, that throughout modern history, where a culture has 'embraced' homosexuality... once those who used them to gain power, acquire that power.

You're citing election results

Yep... The only 'polls' that COUNT!

Obviously not, as the outcome of Prop 8 and every other gay marriage ban overturned by the Federal Judiciary demonstrates.

OH! So NOW you're pointing out that the WILL OF THE VAST MAJORITY OF THE PEOPLE WAS "OVERTURNED" BY A INFINITESIMAL MINORITY?

So... in effect, you want to claim the popular majority, while standing upon the overturning of the will of the popular majority?

ROFLMNAO! Folks... you can NOT MAKE THIS CRAP UP!

 

[Where_r_my_Keys]

And with THAT... your concession is duly noted and summarily accepted.

 

[MaryL]

Actually, I have lived through all this. Homosexuality is just a garden variety sexual perversion/dysfunction. The pity is, homosexuals have capital and this is a capitalist society, they are buying popular sentiment with Hollywood shows from Will and Grace to Philadelphia. I won't take this any were else, because I know just how jaded I will sound.

 

[Skylar]

Look Scamp... you need to understand, that throughout modern history, where a culture has 'embraced' homosexuality... once those who used them to gain power, acquire that power.

Says you, citing you. And you no more define history than you do the rights of any person. If your entire argument is you citing yourself, then your source is clearly insufficient to carry your argument.

OH! So NOW you're pointing out that the WILL OF THE VAST MAJORITY OF THE PEOPLE WAS "OVERTURNED" BY A INFINITESIMAL MINORITY?

I'm citing the fact that the people can't vote away the rights of minorities in our republic. And given that gay marriage is now legal in 32 of 50 States, clearly the vote that 'counts' on issues of the protection of rights is the federal judiciary tasked with insuring the constitution is followed.

Contradicting your claims factually, legally, and practically.

 

[Where_r_my_Keys]

Actually, I have lived through all this. Homosexuality is just a garden variety sexual perversion/dysfunction. The pity is, homosexuals have capital and this is a capitalist society, they are buying popular sentiment with Hollywood shows from Will and Grace to Philadelphia. I won't take this any were else, because just how jaded I will sound.

Very well said Mary. Very well said indeed.

 

[Skylar]

Actually, I have lived through all this. Homosexuality is just a garden variety sexual perversion/dysfunction. The pity is, homosexuals have capital and this is a capitalist society, they are buying popular sentiment with Hollywood shows from Will and Grace to Philadelphia. I won't take this any were else, because just how jaded I will sound.

You're certainly welcome to your opinion. But the rights of gays and lesbians to same sex marriage has nothing to do with your opinion that homosexuality is 'sexual perversion'. Marriage is a fundamental right. And if you're going to deny it to gays and lesbians, you'll need a very good reason. Your personal opinion isn't it.

 

[Where_r_my_Keys]

Look Scamp... you need to understand, that throughout modern history, where a culture has 'embraced' homosexuality... once those who used them to gain power, acquire that power.

Says you, citing you.

Actually thats me citing world history...

OH! So NOW you're pointing out that the WILL OF THE VAST MAJORITY OF THE PEOPLE WAS "OVERTURNED" BY A INFINITESIMAL MINORITY?

I'm citing the fact that the people can't vote away the rights of minorities in our republic. [/quote]

There is no right to force deviancy upon another. PERIOD. Be that in a republic or any other form of governance.

You claimed that The Advocacy to Normalize Sexual Abnormality was 'the right thing to do', because it was POPULAR. That was refuted, by the evidence of the VAST MAJORITY OF PEOPLE, ELECTING THE VAST MAJORITY OF REPRESENTATIVES IN THE VAST MAJORITY OF THE STATES, WHO PASSED LAW SUSTAINING THE NATURAL, DEFINING STANDARDS OF MARRIAGE.
You then cited the "OVERTURNING" of that VAST MAJORITY which stands AGAINST you and claimed that you're right, because 5 jurist said you were right... five people does not a MAJORITY MAKE in a nation of 350 million people.

 

[Skylar]

And with THAT... your concession is duly noted and summarily accepted.

Summary declarations of victory are themselves a concession. As if your argument worked logically or factually, you wouldn't need them.

They're also quite irrelevant. As the overturn of gay marriage ban after gay marriage ban demonstrates. Reality doesn't change just because you pretend it doesn't exist.

 

[Where_r_my_Keys]

Actually, I have lived through all this. Homosexuality is just a garden variety sexual perversion/dysfunction. The pity is, homosexuals have capital and this is a capitalist society, they are buying popular sentiment with Hollywood shows from Will and Grace to Philadelphia. I won't take this any were else, because just how jaded I will sound.

You're certainly welcome to your opinion. But the rights of gays and lesbians to same sex marriage ... .

Marriage is the joining of one man and one woman.