Should Churches be forced to accomodate for homosexual weddings?

[JakeStarkey]

Why should churches be forced by fascists to perpetrate a farce ?

The courts are doing nothing of the sort.

 

[Cecilie1200]

"Module 2 of the program, which is called “Understanding Adolescent Sexuality and Abstinence,” offers “an overview of reproductive anatomy, discusses messages about sex, discusses how people express themselves sexually [apparently reinforced by the poster], and the benefits of abstinence.”

"According to HHS, in the original study that explored the effectiveness of the Making A Difference program, the participants were African-Americans, aged 11-13.
Nevertheless, Ellis thinks the curriculum should change.
“This has nothing to do with abstinence or sexual reproduction, actually, a lot of these things,” he said. “I would like to see that this particular portion of the curriculum is removed from the school.” "

Kansas Middle School: Poster Listing Sex Acts Part of 'Health and Science' Curriculum

It's amazing that these people expect parents to tolerate the schools having conversations with their children that would have them screaming for the cops if the next-door neighbor did it.

 

[Andylusion]

Son, you would lose all your $$$ with that foolish bet.
You would have better luck with Russian roulette.
Fun game for a betting man like you.

So you make a statement like that - so cock sure in your opinion being fact - that you can't present any facts to prove your opinion - you're a truly opinionated little fella aren't you ? do you have any basis for those opinions other a "gut feeling" ?

Come on "Bombs away" - put your money where your mouth is - instead of putting some one elses cock sure attitude in it . Put up or shut up

I am from the deep south. 95 out of 100 churches OPPOSED interracial marriage.
Hell, they opposed opening their doors to accept black folks for a long time.
Interracial marriage was against the law in Alabama until 2000.
95% of the churches there would not marry an interracial couple before that. They wouldn't be prosecuted but it gave them the excuse they needed.
As of last year 21% of Alabama Republican voters still opposed interracial marriage Pew Research Center.
Loving overturned those laws in 1967 but that was for criminal charges only but the states still kept the laws and most all churches stuck by it.
But the subject is the churches down here opposing it and not what the law is after Loving.
Bob Jones University opposed it until 2000.
Real world I have lived in.
How are things in Lah Lah land today?

No, I agree with all of that.

And there certainly are many churches that change their views to fit the societal norms. I completely agree with that statement.

There are thousands of churches that are that way.

However... there are a minority of actual Christian, Bible believing churches, such as mine, that honestly do not care at all what society thinks.

The whole race crap, is just that. There was nothing in the Bible that supports racism, and plenty that denies it. Even from Genesis 1, we know that all mankind was created from just Adam and Eve..... well doesn't that sort of shatter the idea of Racism, given we obviously are all the same race?

Doesn't Acts 10:34 when it says "Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons" shatter the idea of Racism?

Does not Acts 8:26-40 say that G-d sent Philip to the Ethiopian court official?

Does that not shatter the idea of Racism?

So why did those churches promote racism? I have no idea. Ask them. But it didn't come from Christianity or the Bible (which is what Christianity is based on).

And if you look at where the push to end slavery and racism came from, it was from Christianity.

Now Homosexuality, is completely different. Unlike Racism which the Bible is explicitly against, Homosexuality is clearly defined as a sin. It's wrong, and an abomination.

The only way a church can accept homosexuality, is if they abandon the Bible. Given that the Bible is the fundamental basis for Christianity, that means they have to Abandon Christianity.

Yes, I am absolutely saying that any Church which accepts Homosexuality, is in fact NOT a Christian church. Those two concepts are mutually exclusive. You can't be both. Not an option.

And for those of us who are real Christians, we will never accept homosexuality, and we don't care what the rest of you think.

Game over. Have a nice day.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Links to curriculum.









Who is saying that? Churches will be "forced" to more inclusive through public opinion, not government intervention.

I don't think so seawytch. The episcopals have suffered from an anti-gay civil war, and not only is the church near broke but attendance dwindles. Perhaps some non-denomiationals will start up. But basically organized religion's response to gays and the politically powerless have had an enduring negative effect. The catholics will endure, as their laity has learned to just ignore Rome and the bishops.

There has been a 10% increase in gay friendly churches from 2009 to 2013. Young people aren't attending church and the number one reason? Not inclusive enough.

Churches will adapt or die.

Fads come and go. The Church endures, and history shows it's those "adaptations" - ie. those who betray their faith for worldly popularity - who end up dying out.

Children fall away from the beliefs that they're taught while they're young and arrogant and think that they can invent something new and different and smarter than anything that's come before, but they return to their foundations when they get older, learn wisdom, and begin to be buffeted about by the realities of life.

 

[Gadawg73]

So you make a statement like that - so cock sure in your opinion being fact - that you can't present any facts to prove your opinion - you're a truly opinionated little fella aren't you ? do you have any basis for those opinions other a "gut feeling" ?

Come on "Bombs away" - put your money where your mouth is - instead of putting some one elses cock sure attitude in it . Put up or shut up

I am from the deep south. 95 out of 100 churches OPPOSED interracial marriage.
Hell, they opposed opening their doors to accept black folks for a long time.
Interracial marriage was against the law in Alabama until 2000.
95% of the churches there would not marry an interracial couple before that. They wouldn't be prosecuted but it gave them the excuse they needed.
As of last year 21% of Alabama Republican voters still opposed interracial marriage Pew Research Center.
Loving overturned those laws in 1967 but that was for criminal charges only but the states still kept the laws and most all churches stuck by it.
But the subject is the churches down here opposing it and not what the law is after Loving.
Bob Jones University opposed it until 2000.
Real world I have lived in.
How are things in Lah Lah land today?

No, I agree with all of that.

And there certainly are many churches that change their views to fit the societal norms. I completely agree with that statement.

There are thousands of churches that are that way.

However... there are a minority of actual Christian, Bible believing churches, such as mine, that honestly do not care at all what society thinks.

The whole race crap, is just that. There was nothing in the Bible that supports racism, and plenty that denies it. Even from Genesis 1, we know that all mankind was created from just Adam and Eve..... well doesn't that sort of shatter the idea of Racism, given we obviously are all the same race?

Doesn't Acts 10:34 when it says "Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons" shatter the idea of Racism?

Does not Acts 8:26-40 say that G-d sent Philip to the Ethiopian court official?

Does that not shatter the idea of Racism?

So why did those churches promote racism? I have no idea. Ask them. But it didn't come from Christianity or the Bible (which is what Christianity is based on).

And if you look at where the push to end slavery and racism came from, it was from Christianity.

Now Homosexuality, is completely different. Unlike Racism which the Bible is explicitly against, Homosexuality is clearly defined as a sin. It's wrong, and an abomination.

The only way a church can accept homosexuality, is if they abandon the Bible. Given that the Bible is the fundamental basis for Christianity, that means they have to Abandon Christianity.

Yes, I am absolutely saying that any Church which accepts Homosexuality, is in fact NOT a Christian church. Those two concepts are mutually exclusive. You can't be both. Not an option.

And for those of us who are real Christians, we will never accept homosexuality, and we don't care what the rest of you think.

Game over. Have a nice day.

Old Testament Laws do speak against homosexuality.
And eating pork is a sin under Old Testament.
If you eat bacon you are a sinner, same as homosexuality.
Exactly the same as sin is sin.
Jesus never condemned homosexuality and he WAS A JEW HIMSELF.
A rabbi Jesus was.
And the Jews that did condemn homosexuality in that time viewed Jesus as a radical for his day for his acceptance of everyone.
That is what Christianity is.
If you are a Christian you never have to go around with a Big C on your game jersey.
They will know it by your actions.

Most folks here talk like Tarzan but post like Jane.
Next time put your cleats and helmet on before you cross the lines.
You need them.

 

[Cecilie1200]

So you think they should be forced.

I know you think that by using the term "public opinion" you're somehow hiding the fact that you are saying that you think the churches should be forced, but it's all the same. Public opinion was AOK and 100 percent behind the "forcing" of Jews to get onto train cars, too. Those Jews voluntarily boarded those trains because they thought it was the right thing to do..because public opinion was against them.

Yes...just as churches were "forced" to perform interracial marriages...by public opinion. Remember the Mormons? They were among the last to be "forced" to accept blacks...by public opinion.

Really? Hitler?

Churches were never forced to marry interracial couples, you nitwit.

You fail..and you keep on failing over and over and over again. I think perhaps you have drug induced brain damage.

What's funny to me is that leftists think THEY were the ones leading the fight for racial equality - REAL racial equality, not this Affirmative Action bullshit - and dragging churches kicking and screaming behind them, when it was actually churches who fought to change public opinion on race.

 

[Andylusion]

I am from the deep south. 95 out of 100 churches OPPOSED interracial marriage.
Hell, they opposed opening their doors to accept black folks for a long time.
Interracial marriage was against the law in Alabama until 2000.
95% of the churches there would not marry an interracial couple before that. They wouldn't be prosecuted but it gave them the excuse they needed.
As of last year 21% of Alabama Republican voters still opposed interracial marriage Pew Research Center.
Loving overturned those laws in 1967 but that was for criminal charges only but the states still kept the laws and most all churches stuck by it.
But the subject is the churches down here opposing it and not what the law is after Loving.
Bob Jones University opposed it until 2000.
Real world I have lived in.
How are things in Lah Lah land today?

No, I agree with all of that.

And there certainly are many churches that change their views to fit the societal norms. I completely agree with that statement.

There are thousands of churches that are that way.

However... there are a minority of actual Christian, Bible believing churches, such as mine, that honestly do not care at all what society thinks.

The whole race crap, is just that. There was nothing in the Bible that supports racism, and plenty that denies it. Even from Genesis 1, we know that all mankind was created from just Adam and Eve..... well doesn't that sort of shatter the idea of Racism, given we obviously are all the same race?

Doesn't Acts 10:34 when it says "Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons" shatter the idea of Racism?

Does not Acts 8:26-40 say that G-d sent Philip to the Ethiopian court official?

Does that not shatter the idea of Racism?

So why did those churches promote racism? I have no idea. Ask them. But it didn't come from Christianity or the Bible (which is what Christianity is based on).

And if you look at where the push to end slavery and racism came from, it was from Christianity.

Now Homosexuality, is completely different. Unlike Racism which the Bible is explicitly against, Homosexuality is clearly defined as a sin. It's wrong, and an abomination.

The only way a church can accept homosexuality, is if they abandon the Bible. Given that the Bible is the fundamental basis for Christianity, that means they have to Abandon Christianity.

Yes, I am absolutely saying that any Church which accepts Homosexuality, is in fact NOT a Christian church. Those two concepts are mutually exclusive. You can't be both. Not an option.

And for those of us who are real Christians, we will never accept homosexuality, and we don't care what the rest of you think.

Game over. Have a nice day.

Old Testament Laws do speak against homosexuality.
And eating pork is a sin under Old Testament.
If you eat bacon you are a sinner, same as homosexuality.
Exactly the same as sin is sin.
Jesus never condemned homosexuality and he WAS A JEW HIMSELF.
A rabbi Jesus was.
And the Jews that did condemn homosexuality in that time viewed Jesus as a radical for his day for his acceptance of everyone.
That is what Christianity is.
If you are a Christian you never have to go around with a Big C on your game jersey.
They will know it by your actions.

Most folks here talk like Tarzan but post like Jane.
Next time put your cleats and helmet on before you cross the lines.
You need them.

What part of "we don't care what the rest of you think", did you not get?

I'm not here to debate the Bible with you. I could not possibly even try to care less about your views on what the Bible says.

What I believe about the Bible is between me.... the Bible... and G-d.

You want to start a thread on whether we should eat pork, that's fine. I still don't care, and I wouldn't respond to that thread.

This thread is about Homosexuality and the Church.

My Bible says Homosexuality is a sin. You want to debate that?

In my book... the Bible... it's a sin. Period.

My church will not support homosexuality. We won't have a homosexual wedding. We won't allow homosexuals in any position in our church. If we find out you are, you're gone. Just like if we find out you are cheating on your wife, you're gone.

So to recap the bottom line..... all your blaw blaw blaw old testement... balw blaw blaw pork blaw blaw blaw shell fish blaw blaw blaw blaw.....

I DO NOT CARE. You opinion on this matter, has zero value to me. Not trying to be insulting... I am trying to be transparent. What you think about the Bible is immaterial to this topic. I don't care.

Homosexuality is a sin, and my church, will not be a part of it. Period. End of story.

And all of you people have NO SAY in the matter. None.

 

[Andylusion]

What's funny to me is that leftists think THEY were the ones leading the fight for racial equality - REAL racial equality, not this Affirmative Action bullshit - and dragging churches kicking and screaming behind them, when it was actually churches who fought to change public opinion on race.

You have to remember.... leftists control the school system. It wasn't until years later that I even found out churches had anything to do with the end of slavery and such.

And I was part of an upper middle class school system. They never taught that Wilberforce was devout Christian convert, and that it was explicitly because of that, that he devoted his life to end the slave trade.

The school system has been libtardified to the point, that the most basic fundamentals of history are barely taught.

So these ignorant leftists on here, are only this ignorant because of how pathetically bad our education system. The Chinese know more about how our Christian faith formed our country, than we do (average Americans do).

The leftards have succeeded in stupidifying our people. This is why the push for vouchers is so violently opposed.

 

[Cecilie1200]

It's always the same with social right-wingers. They ask you to provide examples and then don't reply anymore.

Hey, dimwit, when you're posting after midnight, you might want to consider that people GO TO BED. Just because your life revolves around the Internet doesn't mean other people don't have to get up the next morning.



Why don't you try not being such a spoiled, demanding little punk and fucking wait until people get around to the incredibly low place you occupy on their priority lists?

Wrong 2 times. It's not that my life revolves around the Internet. I come from Europe, so we have a time difference . For me, it is now late in the morning.
Included the fact that the one I was talking to kept responding on other posts, but tried real hard to ignore my post.

Pardon me if I in some way gave you the impression that by criticizing your hyper-rushed attempt to demand answers when you wanted them, I was interested in having anything about your pathetic existence explained to me.

Let me clarify.

People go do other things. You are not particularly important to them, and so they answer you when they damned well fucking feel like it, and it's inappropriate and retarded of you to post demands for answers or declare victory for yourself simply because other people don't post as often or at the same time of day.

Write that down somewhere. YOU ARE NOT IMPORTANT. It will be an invaluable memory aid in your "life", I have no doubt.

Please refrain from ever again telling me anything about yourself as though you think I view you as a person, or could ever be convinced to view you as a person. Not interested, don't care, feel free to cease existing at this moment if you wish.

 

[JakeStarkey]

The only way a church can accept homosexuality, is if they abandon the Bible. Given that the Bible is the fundamental basis for Christianity, that means they have to Abandon Christianity.

That is certainly one opinion, but you can't tell others if they are Christian or not.

Up to Jesus.

 

[Silhouette]

That is certainly one opinion, but you can't tell others if they are Christian or not.

Up to Jesus.

Jesus' brother authored Jude 1 of the New Testament [the Christian Bible]: To ask these people to promote homosexuality in any way, shape or form is tantamount to asking them to burn the Bible and renounce their faith...such emphasis is placed on not failing from the task of resistance that those who do fail are warned they are going to the pit of blackness forever if they do... That's what's known in religion as "a mortal sin".

1 Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called:

2 Mercy unto you, and peace, and love, be multiplied.

3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.

4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

5 I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.

6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

8 Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities.

9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

10 But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves.

11 Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core.

12 These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots;

13 Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.

14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,

15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

16 These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling words, having men's persons in admiration because of advantage.

17 But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ;

18 How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.

19 These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.

20 But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,

21 Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

22 And of some have compassion, making a difference:

23 And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.

24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,

25 To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Oh...those churches will be a minority soon enough.

It amuses me that lefties, desperate as they are for the illusion of popularity, inclusion, and normality, think that everyone in the world aspires to that. You really cannot grasp that the Church does not care, and has never cared, about whether they're "the minority" or not. They usually are, and that suits them fine. Your approbation is not required or requested, and frankly, the Church would prefer not to have it, since it would be seen as an indication that they're doing something wrong.

You really don't even bother to try to understand the people you vilify and demonize, do you? You're like a kid drawing horns on people's pictures: smear and move on. No thought required.

It's really adorable that you think Churches don't care. Of course they care. There were plenty of churches that swore they'd never let a good, god fearing white person marry one of those N words in their church, but they did.

It's just a matter of time...

It's not the least bit adorable to me that you're ignorant enough to not know the history of the Church, and to think your piddling little disapproval will make any more difference than anyone else's has throughout time.

Christianity came to life during the time of the Roman Empire. History records ten specific Roman persecutions of Christians:

1) Nero - According to the Roman historian Tacitus:

Besides being put to death they [the Christians] were made to serve as objects of amusement; they were clad in the hides of beast and torn to death by dogs; others were crucified, others set on fire to serve to illuminate the night when daylight failed. Nero had thrown open his grounds for the display, and was putting on a show in the circus, where he mingled with the people in the dress of a charioteer or drove about in his chariot. All this gave rise to a feeling of pity, even toward men whose guilt merited the most exemplary punishment; for it was felt that they were being destroyed not for the public good but to satisfy the cruelty of an individual.

2) Domitian - Domitian is recorded as having executed members of his own family on charges of atheism and Jewish manners, who are thus generally assumed to have been Christians.

3) Marcus Aurelius - It was during the reign of Marcus Aurelius that Polycarp, bishop of Smyrna, was martyred. Later, there is record of "new decrees" making it easier for Christians to be accused and have their property confiscated. In 177, 48 Christians were martyred in the amphitheater in Lyons (modern France).

4) Trajan - In 112 AD, Roman governor Pliny the Younger was sent by the emperor Trajan (r. 98-117) to the province of Bithynia on official business. During his visit, Pliny encountered Christians, and he wrote to the emperor about them. The governor indicated that he had ordered the execution of several Christians, "for I held no question that whatever it was they admitted, in any case obstinancy and unbending perversity deserve to be punished." However, he was unsure what to do about those who said they were no longer Christians, and asked Trajan his advice. The emperor responded that Christians should not be sought out, anonymous tips should be rejected as "unworthy of our times," and if they recanted and "worshipped our gods," they were to be freed. Those who persisted, however, should be punished.

5) Septimus Severus - The emperor Severus may not have been personally ill-disposed towards Christians, but the church was gaining power and making many converts and this led to popular anti-Christian feeling and persecution in Catharge, Alexandria, Rome and Corinth between about 202 and 210. The famed St. Perpetua was martyred during this time, as were many students of Origen of Alexandria.

6) Decius - The persecution under Decius was the first universal and organized persecution of Christians, and it would have lasting significance for the Christian church. In January of 250, Decius issued an edict requiring all citizens to sacrifice to the emperor in the presence of a Roman official and obtain a certificate (libellus) proving they had done so.

This method of persecution created a crisis of conscience for many Christians, as a certificate could be obtained without actually sacrificing by bribing Roman officials. It was clear that Christians should not sacrifice to a false god, but whether it was acceptable to save one's life by buying a certificate was a bit more of a gray area. Many Christians chose to defy the edict outright, refusing to buy a certificate, and were arrested or executed. Among those martyred under Decius were the bishops of Rome, Jerusalem and Antioch. However, the bishop of Smyrna performed the sacrifice, as did many others.

7) Valerian - Under Valerian, who took the throne in 253, all Christian clergy were required to sacrifice to the gods. In a 257 edict, the punishment was exile; in 258, the punishment was death. Christian senators, knights and ladies were also required to sacrifice under pain of heavy fines, reduction of rank and, later, death. Finally, all Christians were forbidden to visit their cemeteries. Among those executed under Valerian were St. Cyprian, Bishop of Carthage, and Sixtus II, Bishop of Rome. According to a letter written by Dionysus during this time, "men and women, young and old, maidens and matrons, soldiers and civilians, of every age and race, some by scourging and fire, others by the sword, have conquered in the strife and won their crowns." The persecution ended with the capture of Valerian by Persia. Valerian's son and successor, Gallienus, revoked the edicts of his father.

8) Maximinus the Thracian - In Cappadocia, the president, Seremianus, did all he could to exterminate the Christians from that province.

The principal persons who perished under this reign were Pontianus, bishop of Rome; Anteros, a Grecian, his successor, who gave offence to the government by collecting the acts of the martyrs, Pammachius and Quiritus, Roman senators, with all their families, and many other Christians; Simplicius, senator; Calepodius, a Christian minister, thrown into the Tyber; Martina, a noble and beautiful virgin; and Hippolitus, a Christian prelate, tied to a wild horse, and dragged until he expired.

During this persecution, raised by Maximinus, numberless Christians were slain without trial, and buried indiscriminately in heaps, sometimes fifty or sixty being cast into a pit together, without the least decency.

9) Aurelian - The principal sufferers were: Felix, bishop of Rome. This prelate was advanced to the Roman see in 274. He was the first martyr to Aurelian's petulancy, being beheaded on the twenty- second of December, in the same year.

Agapetus, a young gentleman, who sold his estate, and gave the money to the poor, was seized as a Christian, tortured, and then beheaded at Praeneste, a city within a day's journey of Rome.

These are the only martyrs left upon record during this reign, as it was soon put to a stop by the emperor's being murdered by his own domestics, at Byzantium.

10) Diocletian and Galerus - The last major Roman persecution of Christians occurred under Diocletian, and it was the worst of all. It is known as the "Great Persecution." The reasons for this persecution are unclear, but Diocletians actions may have been based on the influence of his junior colleague Galarius (a fanatical adherent of Roman religion), Porphyry (an anti-Christian Neoplatonist philosopher), or the usual desire for political unity. In any case, Diocletian published four edicts of 303-04. The emperor ordered the burning of Christian books and churches, but promised not to spill any blood. In actuality, the Diocletian persecution turned out to be extremely violent. This violence "did not succeed in annihilating Christianity but caused the faith of the martyrs to blaze forth instead."

Official persecution of Christians ended with the Edict of Milan, signed by the Christian convert Constantine and his co-emperor Licinius. This did not make Christianity the official religion of the empire (that happened under Emperor Theodosius in 381), but granted it legal status.

(Thanks go to religionfacts.org for most of the quotes here.)

That's just at the START of Christianity, and didn't manage to wipe them out.

In my own lifetime, the former Soviet Union closed nearly all Russian Orthodox churches, killed scads of Christians, and imprisoned many more in gulags. China has been doing the same since the 1960s. Uganda, Vietnam, the Middle East . . . pick a spot outside of Western Civilization on the modern maps, and you will find Christians being imprisoned, brutalized, and killed. And it continues to survive and flourish.

And you're going to do what to bend Christians to your will? Call them names? Fine them? Make them pay taxes? Refuse to be their friends? Oooh, THAT'LL break 'em. Excuse me while I yawn.

Oh, I don't doubt that you'll find a lot of false Christians, who go to church mainly to feel "spiritual" or maintain social standing in their communities, who will go along with you. Those people have always existed, and always been the first to fall away. They aren't the Church, and never have been. True Christianity is only hardened and strengthened by persecution; it's designed to be that way. The Christian faith is more endangered by the comfort and prosperity of its adherents than it could ever be by their suffering.

 

[JakeStarkey]

One, the brother of Jesus was speaking for the brother of Jesus, not for Him.

Two, to accept biblical literalism is to accept heresy that leads to apostasy.

Three, the Lord loves you despite your errancy.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

That is certainly one opinion, but you can't tell others if they are Christian or not.

Up to Jesus.

Jesus' brother authored Jude 1 of the New Testament [the Christian Bible]: To ask these people to promote homosexuality in any way, shape or form is tantamount to asking them to burn the Bible and renounce their faith...such emphasis is placed on not failing from the task of resistance that those who do fail are warned they are going to the pit of blackness forever if they do... That's what's known in religion as "a mortal sin".

Christians do many things the Bible says not to do, and ignore much of what it says to do. Accepting homosexuality in a secular society will hardly kill the faith. You had to stop burning witches a while back and the churches and the Bible managed to survive.

 

[longknife]

I have a GREAT suggestion!

Why don't YOU invite people from all forms of different viewpoints to come to YOUR house to get married?

 

[Cecilie1200]

I have a GREAT suggestion!

Why don't YOU invite people from all forms of different viewpoints to come to YOUR house to get married?

Who would want to get married in a ghetto tract house with rusted cars up on blocks in the front yard? ESPECIALLY gay men. Come on, now.

 

[JakeStarkey]

 

[Crystalclear]

No, I agree with all of that.

And there certainly are many churches that change their views to fit the societal norms. I completely agree with that statement.

There are thousands of churches that are that way.

However... there are a minority of actual Christian, Bible believing churches, such as mine, that honestly do not care at all what society thinks.

The whole race crap, is just that. There was nothing in the Bible that supports racism, and plenty that denies it. Even from Genesis 1, we know that all mankind was created from just Adam and Eve..... well doesn't that sort of shatter the idea of Racism, given we obviously are all the same race?

Doesn't Acts 10:34 when it says "Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons" shatter the idea of Racism?

Does not Acts 8:26-40 say that G-d sent Philip to the Ethiopian court official?

Does that not shatter the idea of Racism?

So why did those churches promote racism? I have no idea. Ask them. But it didn't come from Christianity or the Bible (which is what Christianity is based on).

And if you look at where the push to end slavery and racism came from, it was from Christianity.

Now Homosexuality, is completely different. Unlike Racism which the Bible is explicitly against, Homosexuality is clearly defined as a sin. It's wrong, and an abomination.

The only way a church can accept homosexuality, is if they abandon the Bible. Given that the Bible is the fundamental basis for Christianity, that means they have to Abandon Christianity.

Yes, I am absolutely saying that any Church which accepts Homosexuality, is in fact NOT a Christian church. Those two concepts are mutually exclusive. You can't be both. Not an option.

And for those of us who are real Christians, we will never accept homosexuality, and we don't care what the rest of you think.

Game over. Have a nice day.

Old Testament Laws do speak against homosexuality.
And eating pork is a sin under Old Testament.
If you eat bacon you are a sinner, same as homosexuality.
Exactly the same as sin is sin.
Jesus never condemned homosexuality and he WAS A JEW HIMSELF.
A rabbi Jesus was.
And the Jews that did condemn homosexuality in that time viewed Jesus as a radical for his day for his acceptance of everyone.
That is what Christianity is.
If you are a Christian you never have to go around with a Big C on your game jersey.
They will know it by your actions.

Most folks here talk like Tarzan but post like Jane.
Next time put your cleats and helmet on before you cross the lines.
You need them.

What part of "we don't care what the rest of you think", did you not get?

I'm not here to debate the Bible with you. I could not possibly even try to care less about your views on what the Bible says.

What I believe about the Bible is between me.... the Bible... and G-d.

You want to start a thread on whether we should eat pork, that's fine. I still don't care, and I wouldn't respond to that thread.

This thread is about Homosexuality and the Church.

My Bible says Homosexuality is a sin. You want to debate that?

In my book... the Bible... it's a sin. Period.

My church will not support homosexuality. We won't have a homosexual wedding. We won't allow homosexuals in any position in our church. If we find out you are, you're gone. Just like if we find out you are cheating on your wife, you're gone.

So to recap the bottom line..... all your blaw blaw blaw old testement... balw blaw blaw pork blaw blaw blaw shell fish blaw blaw blaw blaw.....

I DO NOT CARE. You opinion on this matter, has zero value to me. Not trying to be insulting... I am trying to be transparent. What you think about the Bible is immaterial to this topic. I don't care.

Homosexuality is a sin, and my church, will not be a part of it. Period. End of story.

And all of you people have NO SAY in the matter. None.

That your Bible says gay people are sinners doesn't mean that this cannot change over time.
The point he was making is that the Old Testament said eating pork was a sin. This could also be changed in the New Testament.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Old Testament Laws do speak against homosexuality.
And eating pork is a sin under Old Testament.
If you eat bacon you are a sinner, same as homosexuality.
Exactly the same as sin is sin.
Jesus never condemned homosexuality and he WAS A JEW HIMSELF.
A rabbi Jesus was.
And the Jews that did condemn homosexuality in that time viewed Jesus as a radical for his day for his acceptance of everyone.
That is what Christianity is.
If you are a Christian you never have to go around with a Big C on your game jersey.
They will know it by your actions.

Most folks here talk like Tarzan but post like Jane.
Next time put your cleats and helmet on before you cross the lines.
You need them.

What part of "we don't care what the rest of you think", did you not get?

I'm not here to debate the Bible with you. I could not possibly even try to care less about your views on what the Bible says.

What I believe about the Bible is between me.... the Bible... and G-d.

You want to start a thread on whether we should eat pork, that's fine. I still don't care, and I wouldn't respond to that thread.

This thread is about Homosexuality and the Church.

My Bible says Homosexuality is a sin. You want to debate that?

In my book... the Bible... it's a sin. Period.

My church will not support homosexuality. We won't have a homosexual wedding. We won't allow homosexuals in any position in our church. If we find out you are, you're gone. Just like if we find out you are cheating on your wife, you're gone.

So to recap the bottom line..... all your blaw blaw blaw old testement... balw blaw blaw pork blaw blaw blaw shell fish blaw blaw blaw blaw.....

I DO NOT CARE. You opinion on this matter, has zero value to me. Not trying to be insulting... I am trying to be transparent. What you think about the Bible is immaterial to this topic. I don't care.

Homosexuality is a sin, and my church, will not be a part of it. Period. End of story.

And all of you people have NO SAY in the matter. None.

That your Bible says gay people are sinners doesn't mean that this cannot change over time.
The point he was making is that the Old Testament said eating pork was a sin. This could also be changed in the New Testament.

You're going to write your very own Testament and convert people to following it? Knock yourself out, and good luck with that.

As long as you leave the rest of us alone to think you're a heretical lunatic, we don't care. It's the rewriting of OUR Testaments, and attempting to force us to follow your revisions, that we have a problem with.

 

[Andylusion]

Hey, dimwit, when you're posting after midnight, you might want to consider that people GO TO BED. Just because your life revolves around the Internet doesn't mean other people don't have to get up the next morning.



Why don't you try not being such a spoiled, demanding little punk and fucking wait until people get around to the incredibly low place you occupy on their priority lists?

Wrong 2 times. It's not that my life revolves around the Internet. I come from Europe, so we have a time difference . For me, it is now late in the morning.
Included the fact that the one I was talking to kept responding on other posts, but tried real hard to ignore my post.

Pardon me if I in some way gave you the impression that by criticizing your hyper-rushed attempt to demand answers when you wanted them, I was interested in having anything about your pathetic existence explained to me.

Let me clarify.

People go do other things. You are not particularly important to them, and so they answer you when they damned well fucking feel like it, and it's inappropriate and retarded of you to post demands for answers or declare victory for yourself simply because other people don't post as often or at the same time of day.

Write that down somewhere. YOU ARE NOT IMPORTANT. It will be an invaluable memory aid in your "life", I have no doubt.

Please refrain from ever again telling me anything about yourself as though you think I view you as a person, or could ever be convinced to view you as a person. Not interested, don't care, feel free to cease existing at this moment if you wish.

It is strange that people on forums think all of us are just sitting here.... just waiting.... just in case they might respond. Like there is absolutely nothing else like..... work.... family.... job.... even just other things we like to do other than waiting to have bestowed on us the absolute privilege to respond to their divine words of wisdom.

Seriously people... check your medication. If other poster don't respond, it's either because we don't care to, or we don't have time to, or we do but we just have other things more important than you that we wish to do.