Should Ichiro make the baseball HOF?

[rightwinger]

Suzy does compare well to rose. Both men had good BA and little power. Musial is something else. Far far above either man as a hitter. Stan is one of the top 5 hitters of all time.

List your top 5 hitters. Are you talking strictly batting averages?

Batting average??? No way. I look at everything. My list is ---ruth williams gehrig bonds musial. Maybe i should put cobb in there and make stan number 6. Hate to leave out hornsby but injuries cut short his career.

No Willie Mays?

 

[Lewdog]

Suzy does compare well to rose. Both men had good BA and little power. Musial is something else. Far far above either man as a hitter. Stan is one of the top 5 hitters of all time.

List your top 5 hitters. Are you talking strictly batting averages?

Batting average??? No way. I look at everything. My list is ---ruth williams gehrig bonds musial. Maybe i should put cobb in there and make stan number 6. Hate to leave out hornsby but injuries cut short his career.

No Willie Mays?

No Tony Gwynn? He hit .394 one year, and was a career .338 hitter. I think you really need to give his numbers a lot more credence compared to some guys of the older years that weren't always hitting against guys throwing high 90's.

 

[martybegan]

He probably will since he'll get the racist vote that awards all non-whites bonus points, but he's not that good. He has 3000 hits and a good BA but his walk numbers and HR numbers are very low. Just a slightly better than average hitter really. A good outfielder and a good base runner.

He's 44 now and had another poor year in 2017 and it's time to quit though he says he wants to play in 2018!!. I say no HOF for the little nip.

500+ stolen bases, 10 years of .300+ average, 10x All-Star, 10x Golden Glove, 1 MVP, most hits in a single season, 10 years of 200+ hits.....

I know you hate him because he's not white, but I'd say he deserves some recognition.

The only argument against is the old "compiler" argument, and I have never been a fan of it.

One also has to remember that he was one of the best fielders as well in his prime.

3000 hits seals the deal for me.

He also batted over for 18 consecutive years going back to his career in Japan. 10 of those were for the Mariners. that sounds pretty damn reliable to me for a guy who is a base stealer

I doubt the writers will include his Japan time in their decisions, but I don't think they need to anyway.

During his prime, he was one of the defining players of his time period at his position.

 

[rightwinger]

Suzy does compare well to rose. Both men had good BA and little power. Musial is something else. Far far above either man as a hitter. Stan is one of the top 5 hitters of all time.

List your top 5 hitters. Are you talking strictly batting averages?

Batting average??? No way. I look at everything. My list is ---ruth williams gehrig bonds musial. Maybe i should put cobb in there and make stan number 6. Hate to leave out hornsby but injuries cut short his career.

No Willie Mays?

No Tony Gwynn? He hit .394 one year, and was a career .338 hitter. I think you really need to give his numbers a lot more credence compared to some guys of the older years that weren't always hitting against guys throwing high 90's.

Gwynn was the best pure hitter of his era. But he lacked the power numbers.

 

[leftwinger]

If relief pitchers can't get in.........no DH in either.

Big PapSmear......you are out. He another Juicer, with Manny. Manny will get in. It is a popularity contest, MSM driven.

Disclaimer: strike of 94', free agency, umps, juicers....drove me off. Got sucked back in little by little mid-2000s' now "back" 75%?

The umps seem much better these days (balls/strikes are still difficult).

Crankmees (maybe other big market?) used to get every playoff call vs. Small market teams.......this seems improved since the 2000s IMVHO. KC, Minn got hosed a few times around George Brett days.

Finally to those who say WS titles don't matter? Huh? This is why they play. Remember Georger Brett or Mr. October? Clutch. Stats only is a rough way to go. I know I know.....you may be on a weak team.

 

[Lewdog]

If relief pitchers can't get in.........no DH in either.

Big PapSmear......you are out. He another Juicer, with Manny. Manny will get in. It is a popularity contest, MSM driven.

Disclaimer: strike of 94', free agency, umps, juicers....drove me off. Got sucked back in little by little mid-2000s' now "back" 75%?

The umps seem much better these days (balls/strikes are still difficult).

Crankmees (maybe other big market?) used to get every playoff call vs. Small market teams.......this seems improved since the 2000s IMVHO. KC, Minn got hosed a few times around George Brett days.

Finally to those who say WS titles don't matter? Huh? This is why they play. Remember Georger Brett or Mr. October? Clutch. Stats only is a rough way to go. I know I know.....you may be on a weak team.

'94 strike took away a possible Reds Championship, where they would have more than likely faced off against the Yankees in the World Series.

 

[leftwinger]

George Foster.......should he get in? on the series vs. BOS 1975? He made a throw to home to save a game? I saw it replayed recently. Clutch defensive play. And 52 HR in one year.

Bill Mazerozki got in on one WS HR.


Edit: excuse me. I got carried away. I forgot, it HOF career, not season or event.

 

[Lewdog]

George Foster.......should he get in? on the series vs. BOS 1975? He made a throw to home to save a game? I saw it replayed recently. Clutch defensive play. And 52 HR in one year.

Bill Mazerozki got in on one WS HR.

I loved Foster. He was such an under-rated defensive player. His 3 years span of stats from '75-'77 were some of the best you'll see. He averaged 40 HR, 130 RBI, .310 BA... won MVP in '77, had 5 years he led LFers in defensive percentage but never won a Gold Glove.

Unfortunately he didn't have enough power throughout the rest of his career outside of those three years. He doesn't have at least 400 HRs, his RBIs aren't that high, and most importantly he was a .274 career hitter with a low OBP of .338.

If he had hit 400 HR, had 2,000 RBI, and hit closer to .290-.300 he'd get in. For a guy that played 20+ years his stats are just not enough. He is a super nice guy though. I've met him before.

You want to argue a guy that should get in?

Harold Baines!

 

[Lewdog]

George Foster.......should he get in? on the series vs. BOS 1975? He made a throw to home to save a game? I saw it replayed recently. Clutch defensive play. And 52 HR in one year.

Bill Mazerozki got in on one WS HR.


Edit: excuse me. I got carried away. I forgot, it HOF career, not season or event.

and in case you missed it in another thread, I picked this up a couple days ago. I've been picking up a lot of cards lately.

 

[ShootSpeeders]

List your top 5 hitters. Are you talking strictly batting averages?

Batting average??? No way. I look at everything. My list is ---ruth williams gehrig bonds musial. Maybe i should put cobb in there and make stan number 6. Hate to leave out hornsby but injuries cut short his career.

No Willie Mays?

No willie mays. He was maybe the greatest player of all time but as a hitter i would put him somewhere around number 10.

 

[ShootSpeeders]

No Tony Gwynn? He hit .394 one year, and was a career .338 hitter. I think you really need to give his numbers a lot more credence compared to some guys of the older years that weren't always hitting against guys throwing high 90's.

Batting average?? HAHAHA. You're only 40 years behind the times.

 

[ShootSpeeders]

George Foster.......should he get in? on the series vs. BOS 1975? He made a throw to home to save a game? I saw it replayed recently. Clutch defensive play. And 52 HR in one year.

.

Foster was a great player - for a few years. But clearly not good enough for the Hall.

 

[rightwinger]

List your top 5 hitters. Are you talking strictly batting averages?

Batting average??? No way. I look at everything. My list is ---ruth williams gehrig bonds musial. Maybe i should put cobb in there and make stan number 6. Hate to leave out hornsby but injuries cut short his career.

No Willie Mays?

No willie mays. He was maybe the greatest player of all time but as a hitter i would put him somewhere around number 10.

Hit for power, hit for average, great speed on the bases

 

[thereisnospoon]

Notwithstanding......Suzuki is one of the greatest hitters to pick up a bat. His stats compare to greats such as Pete Rose and Stan Musial.

Suzy does compare well to rose. Both men had good BA and little power. Musial is something else. Far far above either man as a hitter. Stan is one of the top 5 hitters of all time.

List your top 5 hitters. Are you talking strictly batting averages?

No their overall value.
For example.
A .300 hitter that does not score a lot of runs is not as valuable as a .260 hitter that produces runs.

In 1988 Andres Gallaraga had what on the surface looked like a terrific season.
He led the NL in base hits with 184. But he also had the dubious distinction of being the first and ONLY player to lead that category AND also record the most strikeouts. Yep he whiffed 157 times. That means he stuck out 22.3 % of the time he stepped up to the plate. So no, the guy with a lot of hits is not the best hitter. That's 157 times he was unable to advance a runner. or put the ball in play.
Same season. Andre Dawson had just 5 fewer hits, but struck out 80 fewer times. His power numbers were comparable to Gallaraga's. My selection in this comparison would be Dawson. Hands down.

 

[ShootSpeeders]

In 1988 Andres Gallaraga had what on the surface looked like a terrific season.
He led the NL in base hits with 184. But he also had the dubious distinction of being the first and ONLY player to lead that category AND also record the most strikeouts. Yep he whiffed 157 times. That means he stuck out 22.3 % of the time he stepped up to the plate. So no, the guy with a lot of hits is not the best hitter.

Are you serious? Strikeouts aren't important. Mike Trout strikes out a lot as did mickey mantle and reggie jackson and a-rod.

 

[Lewdog]

In 1988 Andres Gallaraga had what on the surface looked like a terrific season.
He led the NL in base hits with 184. But he also had the dubious distinction of being the first and ONLY player to lead that category AND also record the most strikeouts. Yep he whiffed 157 times. That means he stuck out 22.3 % of the time he stepped up to the plate. So no, the guy with a lot of hits is not the best hitter.

Are you serious? Strikeouts aren't important. Mike Trout strikes out a lot as did mickey mantle and reggie jackson and a-rod.

They aren't? When you strike out, you can't move over the runner, or hit Sacrifice flies.

 

[thereisnospoon]

In 1988 Andres Gallaraga had what on the surface looked like a terrific season.
He led the NL in base hits with 184. But he also had the dubious distinction of being the first and ONLY player to lead that category AND also record the most strikeouts. Yep he whiffed 157 times. That means he stuck out 22.3 % of the time he stepped up to the plate. So no, the guy with a lot of hits is not the best hitter.

Are you serious? Strikeouts aren't important. Mike Trout strikes out a lot as did mickey mantle and reggie jackson and a-rod.

Wow. Ok....
Last 5 seasons ...
Mike Trout, OBP..... .432, 377, .402, ,443, 442,
Also, despite Trout's injury filled season (114 games) He had an OPS 1,071. To compare anyone to Trout is a bit suspect. Trout is one of just a handful of what are known as "five tool' players. Speed, power, great throwing /fielding ability, hit for high average. He's a freak. So is Bryce Harper. At one time in his career, Alex Rodriguez was thought to be a 5 tool guy.
Jackson did in his early career strike out a lot. But from season 5 thru the end of his career, his base hits always exceeded his strikeouts.

 

[ShootSpeeders]

Also, despite Trout's injury filled season (114 games) He had an OPS 1,071. .

OPS is not a cumulative stat so it doesn't matter how many games he played. WAR is a cumulative stat and trout had 6.7 in that. That is really great. That's 9.5 for a full 162 games. He had 5 straight years where he was 1 or 2 in MVP voting. This year he came in 4th.

 

[ShootSpeeders]

Are you serious? Strikeouts aren't important. Mike Trout strikes out a lot as did mickey mantle and reggie jackson and a-rod.

They aren't? When you strike out, you can't move over the runner, or hit Sacrifice flies.

No DP either.

 

[Synthaholic]

Suzy does compare well to rose. Both men had good BA and little power. Musial is something else. Far far above either man as a hitter. Stan is one of the top 5 hitters of all time.

List your top 5 hitters. Are you talking strictly batting averages?

Batting average??? No way. I look at everything. My list is ---ruth williams gehrig bonds musial. Maybe i should put cobb in there and make stan number 6. Hate to leave out hornsby but injuries cut short his career.

You included one Black guy. Baby steps, I guess.

You left out Hank Aaron. Ernie Banks. For pure hitters, Tony Gwynn. Rod Carew. Wade Boggs.

If you're looking at everything, the list of all-time non-pitchers should start with:

Babe Ruth
Hank Aaron