Should Ichiro make the baseball HOF?

[leftwinger]

Buster may make it, but only after years and years of eligibility.

SF was down 2-0 vs. CIN (sorry Lew) after losing both home games. Posey hit a GS to help win game 3. SF won 3 straight to win the series. On to a title.

I saw him in the World Series, saw the impact he had on pitchers and catchers once he got on base. He disrupted the game, took pitchers out of their comfort zone forced the other team to make mistakes

Yes, basestealers disrupt pitchers but they also disrupt batters. Many batters don't like it when the runner on first is bouncing around. Fact is base-stealing is not an important skill and certainly not for brock who was thrown out 25% of the time.

Off of first base? I'll agree that a guy dancing around off second

I saw him in the World Series, saw the impact he had on pitchers and catchers once he got on base. He disrupted the game, took pitchers out of their comfort zone forced the other team to make mistakes

Yes, basestealers disrupt pitchers but they also disrupt batters. Many batters don't like it when the runner on first is bouncing around. Fact is base-stealing is not an important skill and certainly not for brock who was thrown out 25% of the time.

Ok you keep bringing up Brock's 25% throw out rate so let me respond to that. Let's look at someone from the same era who had a similar impact on the game with his speed that being Maury Wills. Yes Maury is not in the Hall but the point I would like to make is his throw out rate was WORSE than Lou Brocks! How can it be that two of the greatest base stealers in history could have such relatively poor success rates at stealing? Simple. When you are Lou Brock or Maury Wills everyone in the ballpark knows you are going to steal. The catcher is always ready, the pitcher gets the ball to home a fraction of a second quicker, the mid infielders are already hedging toward second. So yeah they got thrown out one out of 4 times but given that everyone and their Mom knew they were going to steal makes that all the more remarkable IMO.

SS is correct IMO. Some batters hate it, 15 throwovers. Pitcher holding ball, catcher visits, slow signs....Timing upset. You need a #2 hiiter that can handle it.
When Coleman McGee Smith (Whitey Ball) got on they created havoc. They could win 1-0 with a walk, SB, SAC and a SAC fly.

Speed kills. I don't know why they quit using it? Juicers? "Speed never slumps" Joe Garigiola?

 

[rightwinger]

Yes, basestealers disrupt pitchers but they also disrupt batters. Many batters don't like it when the runner on first is bouncing around. Fact is base-stealing is not an important skill and certainly not for brock who was thrown out 25% of the time.

Off of first base? I'll agree that a guy dancing around off second

Yes, basestealers disrupt pitchers but they also disrupt batters. Many batters don't like it when the runner on first is bouncing around. Fact is base-stealing is not an important skill and certainly not for brock who was thrown out 25% of the time.

Ok you keep bringing up Brock's 25% throw out rate so let me respond to that. Let's look at someone from the same era who had a similar impact on the game with his speed that being Maury Wills. Yes Maury is not in the Hall but the point I would like to make is his throw out rate was WORSE than Lou Brocks! How can it be that two of the greatest base stealers in history could have such relatively poor success rates at stealing? Simple. When you are Lou Brock or Maury Wills everyone in the ballpark knows you are going to steal. The catcher is always ready, the pitcher gets the ball to home a fraction of a second quicker, the mid infielders are already hedging toward second. So yeah they got thrown out one out of 4 times but given that everyone and their Mom knew they were going to steal makes that all the more remarkable IMO.

Anyone know what Ty Cobbs percentage was?

There are a bunch of years his caught stealing numbers aren't listed so it is impossible to know.

Ty Cobb Stats | Baseball-Reference.com

Interesting

In the years reported Cobb looks like about 65 percent successful

And he was considered the greatest base stealer of all time

Yeah by far Ricky Henderson was the best lead off hitter and stolen base player of all-time. And it's really not even close.

I never saw anyone better

 

[Lewdog]

Buster may make it, but only after years and years of eligibility.

SF was down 2-0 vs.

I saw him in the World Series, saw the impact he had on pitchers and catchers once he got on base. He disrupted the game, took pitchers out of their comfort zone forced the other team to make mistakes

Yes, basestealers disrupt pitchers but they also disrupt batters. Many batters don't like it when the runner on first is bouncing around. Fact is base-stealing is not an important skill and certainly not for brock who was thrown out 25% of the time.

Off of first base? I'll agree that a guy dancing around off second

I saw him in the World Series, saw the impact he had on pitchers and catchers once he got on base. He disrupted the game, took pitchers out of their comfort zone forced the other team to make mistakes

Yes, basestealers disrupt pitchers but they also disrupt batters. Many batters don't like it when the runner on first is bouncing around. Fact is base-stealing is not an important skill and certainly not for brock who was thrown out 25% of the time.

Ok you keep bringing up Brock's 25% throw out rate so let me respond to that. Let's look at someone from the same era who had a similar impact on the game with his speed that being Maury Wills. Yes Maury is not in the Hall but the point I would like to make is his throw out rate was WORSE than Lou Brocks! How can it be that two of the greatest base stealers in history could have such relatively poor success rates at stealing? Simple. When you are Lou Brock or Maury Wills everyone in the ballpark knows you are going to steal. The catcher is always ready, the pitcher gets the ball to home a fraction of a second quicker, the mid infielders are already hedging toward second. So yeah they got thrown out one out of 4 times but given that everyone and their Mom knew they were going to steal makes that all the more remarkable IMO.

SS is correct IMO. Some batters hate it, 15 throwovers. Pitcher holding ball, catcher visits, slow signs....Timing upset. You need a #2 hiiter that can handle it.
When Coleman McGee Smith (Whitey Ball) got on they created havoc. They could win 1-0 with a walk, SB, SAC and a SAC fly.

Speed kills. I don't know why they quit using it? Juicers? "Speed never slumps" Joe Garigiola?

Yeah the Reds are looking to trade Billy Hamilton and it bugs the shit out of me. Despite his .250 average, and low OBP being below .300, he is a game changer on the bases and his defense. He's just reached the point where he is going to demand a higher contract, and they have Winker who they need to find a spot for.

 

[leftwinger]

Buster may make it, but only after years and years of eligibility.

SF was down 2-0 vs.

I saw him in the World Series, saw the impact he had on pitchers and catchers once he got on base. He disrupted the game, took pitchers out of their comfort zone forced the other team to make mistakes

Yes, basestealers disrupt pitchers but they also disrupt batters. Many batters don't like it when the runner on first is bouncing around. Fact is base-stealing is not an important skill and certainly not for brock who was thrown out 25% of the time.

Off of first base? I'll agree that a guy dancing around off second

I saw him in the World Series, saw the impact he had on pitchers and catchers once he got on base. He disrupted the game, took pitchers out of their comfort zone forced the other team to make mistakes

Yes, basestealers disrupt pitchers but they also disrupt batters. Many batters don't like it when the runner on first is bouncing around. Fact is base-stealing is not an important skill and certainly not for brock who was thrown out 25% of the time.

Ok you keep bringing up Brock's 25% throw out rate so let me respond to that. Let's look at someone from the same era who had a similar impact on the game with his speed that being Maury Wills. Yes Maury is not in the Hall but the point I would like to make is his throw out rate was WORSE than Lou Brocks! How can it be that two of the greatest base stealers in history could have such relatively poor success rates at stealing? Simple. When you are Lou Brock or Maury Wills everyone in the ballpark knows you are going to steal. The catcher is always ready, the pitcher gets the ball to home a fraction of a second quicker, the mid infielders are already hedging toward second. So yeah they got thrown out one out of 4 times but given that everyone and their Mom knew they were going to steal makes that all the more remarkable IMO.

SS is correct IMO. Some batters hate it, 15 throwovers. Pitcher holding ball, catcher visits, slow signs....Timing upset. You need a #2 hiiter that can handle it.
When Coleman McGee Smith (Whitey Ball) got on they created havoc. They could win 1-0 with a walk, SB, SAC and a SAC fly.

Speed kills. I don't know why they quit using it? Juicers? "Speed never slumps" Joe Garigiola?

Yeah the Reds are looking to trade Billy Hamilton and it bugs the shit out of me. Despite his .250 average, and low OBP being below .300, he is a game changer on the bases and his defense. He's just reached the point where he is going to demand a higher contract, and they have Winker who they need to find a spot for.

I think Billy is great on the Reds. I thought they would do better in 2017. Votto had MVP year. Like you said..... pitching under-performed? Need the Nasty boys back.

 

[ShootSpeeders]

A great baseball player.
He should absolutely be in the HOF.

Tell the truth. You're a racist and support ichy because he's not one of those horrible white people you hate so much. If you had your way Babe Ruth would be tossed out of the hall.

 

[ShootSpeeders]

Sadly there are people that are making it in without great stats. Bill Mazeroski for example. Alan Trammell just got in and his stats aren't all that either.

Both of them were great fielders and fielding metrics are still not that good. The two recent inductees that bother me are sutter and gossage. I don't like putting RPs in the Hall though i grant Mariano belongs and should make it in a few years.

 

[MarathonMike]

Hamilton needs to get on a strength program. He is just too thin to hit, but if he can put on some muscle and up that BA now you REALLY got something. He is very good already.

 

[Lewdog]

Hamilton needs to get on a strength program. He is just too thin to hit, but if he can put on some muscle and up that BA now you REALLY got something. He is very good already.

His defense is just insane. He led CF in outfield assists (13), and Duvall, another Red, led all OFers in outfield assists with 15.

 

[ShootSpeeders]

Yes Trammell was a SS but he still didn't have great stats that he should have in certain categories. He had a career .977 fielding, most walks he had in a season was 69, only had 236 stolen bases... and worse of all was caught stealing 109 times! He was barely over 50% successful stealing.

Hey einstein. Those stats mean he was successful 68% of his attempted steals, not 50%. You can't do 3rd grade arithmetic. Few blacks can.

 

[Lewdog]

Yes Trammell was a SS but he still didn't have great stats that he should have in certain categories. He had a career .977 fielding, most walks he had in a season was 69, only had 236 stolen bases... and worse of all was caught stealing 109 times! He was barely over 50% successful stealing.

Hey einstein. Those stats mean he was successful 68% of his attempted steals, not 50%. You can't do 3rd grade arithmetic. Few blacks can.

Those stats still suck, and I'm not black.

 

[ShootSpeeders]

In the years reported Cobb looks like about 65 percent successful

And he was considered the greatest base stealer of all time

Cobb played in a low run era where if you had a 70% chance of stealing second, you went for it.

 

[thereisnospoon]

He probably will since he'll get the racist vote that awards all non-whites bonus points, but he's not that good. He has 3000 hits and a good BA but his walk numbers and HR numbers are very low. Just a slightly better than average hitter really. A good outfielder and a good base runner.

He's 44 now and had another poor year in 2017 and it's time to quit though he says he wants to play in 2018!!. I say no HOF for the little nip.

500+ stolen bases, 10 years of .300+ average, 10x All-Star, 10x Golden Glove, 1 MVP, most hits in a single season, 10 years of 200+ hits.....

I know you hate him because he's not white, but I'd say he deserves some recognition.

I cannot believe the OP's anti Japanese rant.
Notwithstanding......Suzuki is one of the greatest hitters to pick up a bat. His stats compare to greats such as Pete Rose and Stan Musial.
Some of his accomplishments.
Between 2006 and 2010 he amasses 1114 hits while averaging nearly .330. As a rookie he had 242 hits. No other rookie had lead his league in base hits.
Averaged .350 4 times. With one season at .372.
He's got my vote...If I had one

 

[leftwinger]

He probably will since he'll get the racist vote that awards all non-whites bonus points, but he's not that good. He has 3000 hits and a good BA but his walk numbers and HR numbers are very low. Just a slightly better than average hitter really. A good outfielder and a good base runner.

He's 44 now and had another poor year in 2017 and it's time to quit though he says he wants to play in 2018!!. I say no HOF for the little nip.

500+ stolen bases, 10 years of .300+ average, 10x All-Star, 10x Golden Glove, 1 MVP, most hits in a single season, 10 years of 200+ hits.....

I know you hate him because he's not white, but I'd say he deserves some recognition.

I cannot believe the OP's anti Japanese rant.
Notwithstanding......Suzuki is one of the greatest hitters to pick up a bat. His stats compare to greats such as Pete Rose and Stan Musial.
Some of his accomplishments.
Between 2006 and 2010 he amasses 1114 hits while averaging nearly .330. As a rookie he had 242 hits. No other rookie had lead his league in base hits.
Averaged .350 4 times. With one season at .372.
He's got my vote...If I had one

He was there when SEA won 116 games in 2001? No WS titles. 242 hits is hard to argue with.

 

[ShootSpeeders]

Notwithstanding......Suzuki is one of the greatest hitters to pick up a bat. His stats compare to greats such as Pete Rose and Stan Musial.

Suzy does compare well to rose. Both men had good BA and little power. Musial is something else. Far far above either man as a hitter. Stan is one of the top 5 hitters of all time.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Don't need racial or personal slurs in this thread and forum, SS.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Billy Hamilton has some way to go to move from a good player to a very good player. It will only take an extra five to six times getting on base per hundred at bats.

 

[rightwinger]

Billy Hamilton has some way to go to move from a good player to a very good player. It will only take an extra five to six times getting on base per hundred at bats.

His on base percentage has always been pretty bad for a base stealer. I look at him like a Vince Coleman. Great base stealer but one dimensional. Not HOF material

 

[JakeStarkey]

Billy Hamilton has some way to go to move from a good player to a very good player. It will only take an extra five to six times getting on base per hundred at bats.

His on base percentage has always been pretty bad for a base stealer. I look at him like a Vince Coleman. Great base stealer but one dimensional. Not HOF material

Yup.

 

[Lewdog]

Billy Hamilton has some way to go to move from a good player to a very good player. It will only take an extra five to six times getting on base per hundred at bats.

His on base percentage has always been pretty bad for a base stealer. I look at him like a Vince Coleman. Great base stealer but one dimensional. Not HOF material

Yup.

What you guys have to also realize is, Billy Hamilton is a converted shortstop to CF. It's amazing how he's been able to adapt and become such a great defensive player.

 

[Papageorgio]

It is an easy choice, put him in the HOF his numbers are HOF numbers.


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