Should our Constitution's 2nd Amendment be amended ... ?

[Stephanie]

 

[RetiredGySgt]

To answer the OP, hell yes...

I agree actually....we should change the wording...."leftist jerks.....this means people get to own guns...is that simple enough for you?" And that won't solve the problem...but it would make us feel better when we have to listen to the anti gun jihadis lie about guns....

What's there to lie about? The US is the only developed country in the world where there is a proliferation of guns and you have the death stats that show what goes with that.

Why should the vast majority of US citizens be tied down by such knee-jerk reactionaries like the NRA, or people who believe the 'govt is coming to get them', or the vast majority who like to be Big Man on Campus with their peashooters. It's about time the gun-loving turds grew the fuck up....won't happen of course....

Vast majority? Less then 12000 people a year are murdered and of those only about 7 to 8 thousand are by firearms, there are 320 million people here do the math. Vast majority my ass.

 

[danielpalos]

80 years ago.....Germany was a moder nation...with universities, and scientists and philosophers, and it was one of the leading countries in the world.......and in a span of 20 years it became a place that murdered 12 million innocent men, women and children for no other reason than their religion, ethnicity, sexual orientation, physical conditions and oppostion to their agenda......

You guys ignore history....unarmed people are the victims of genocide...

At our very border, drug cartels and their allies in the Mexican government are murdering Mexican citizens in their thousands....

What about the ethnic cleansing in the Balkans...was that 80 years ago/

What about the Russians in the Ukraine...do you think they are treating the Ukranians behind their lines with kindness....?

Gun crime exists in Europe, Austalia and around the world...and it is getting worse in Europe and Australia.....after the confiscations......

90 years ago Germany was a basketcase thanks to the Treaty of Versailles, which lead to the Nazis coming to power in the first place.

Thanks for mentioning Russia, the Ukraine, Mexico, the Balkans and all the other 'western democracies' that I was comparing the US to.

And you are dead wrong with regard to gun crime in Australia. I live here. Bugger-all gun crime here. Certainly not enough for people wanting to go around being armed all the time.

"Gun crime" is the foundation of a meaningless tautology.

Asserting that "gun crime" would be diminished by removing guns, is asserting the same kind of meaningless tautology that says getting rid of account ledgers would diminish the incidence of accounting fraud; the argument is specious, and it distracts from discussing a "violence problem"--that is not solvable by these gun-control laws you advocate.

When you deliberately create the special category of "gun crime" so that you can both include crimes that were not caused by guns; and exclude crimes caused by people (but without using guns), you tacitly admit that you're JUST FINE with all the criminal violence in the world... provided no gun was involved.

"Gun crime"...the rhetorical tautology that exposes anti-rights advocates for the callous human shit-birds that they are.

not all guns are used for Badness and not Goodness.

 

[Dr Grump]

Of course. But I'm not about to say that I'll never need a gun.

More importantly though, I will never tell you that you don't need a gun... I'm certainly not so presumptively stupid to assert that you will NEVER need a gun.

I want one, because I (might) need one. Owning guns is my civil and constitutionally protected right.

OBVIOUS straw-man. Failure number 3. You're just done.

Yet the beliefs of the majority are NOT immune from being entirely bullshit. That's why this country also has a 1st Amendment... because superstition is not "reasonable."

We have a constitution with a Bill of Rights to explicitly put our rights out of the reach of of votes.

Well, its just OBVIOUS from the violent crime rate in these disarmed societies of yours, why you feel this way. OBVIOUSLY if you allowed your folks the kind of access to firearms that Americans enjoy, your sense of entitlement to violence (with guns added) would most certainly result in a blood bath rivalling every lurid Wild West Bloodbath scenario gun prohibitionists predict (but oddly never actually occur).

You make the mistake of equating the lethal quality (gun-death tautology) of American violence with more violence; we don't tolerate violence here as well as you might think... that's why starting it up it is more likely to lead to a lethal end. I might argue that we take violence far more seriously than these so-called "developed" nations that are so often used as comparisons. Punching the next guy for some kind of entertainment, or because he's wearing the colors of a rival's fancy kickball team just doesn't fly here. And those who believe they are so entitled, are often the stronger and more aggressive amongst us--guns remove ALL of their advantages over the weak. I'm very good with that arrangement.

You see, it's the romanticised notion of violence--INCLUDING the romanticised notions of those who think some beatings are just an expression of playfulness--that is problematic. Disarming the victim pool for those sociopaths is both intellectually and morally invalid.

]Yeah. My point stands: "Gun crime"...the rhetorical tautology that exposes anti-rights advocates for the callous human shit-birds that they are.

At the moment it is a Constitutional right but there is an amendment process, which could change all that.

Strawman my arse. lt directly correlates to what type of society you wish to live in and the gun issue is a hot political potato that can make or break political careers. it's called context.

Blood baths never occur? What was Sandy Hook and Virginia Tech? Sunday School picnics?

Disarming the victim pool? Really. What a piss-weak argument. Most other western societies are disarmed (willing so too) and we certainly don't have the scourge of mass shootings that the US does. It is a very rare event.

My issue is not even one of 'gun crime', which you keep bringing up. It's one that what role does the proliferation of guns has in a modern society.

And I don't really give a shit about your constitutional right. Your rights stop when they start interfering with mine. And at the moment, in the US, those rights are fatally interfering with the lives of other people on an almost weekly basis.

 

[LOki]

Of course. But I'm not about to say that I'll never need a gun.

More importantly though, I will never tell you that you don't need a gun... I'm certainly not so presumptively stupid to assert that you will NEVER need a gun.

I want one, because I (might) need one. Owning guns is my civil and constitutionally protected right.

OBVIOUS straw-man. Failure number 3. You're just done.

Yet the beliefs of the majority are NOT immune from being entirely bullshit. That's why this country also has a 1st Amendment... because superstition is not "reasonable."

We have a constitution with a Bill of Rights to explicitly put our rights out of the reach of of votes.

Well, its just OBVIOUS from the violent crime rate in these disarmed societies of yours, why you feel this way. OBVIOUSLY if you allowed your folks the kind of access to firearms that Americans enjoy, your sense of entitlement to violence (with guns added) would most certainly result in a blood bath rivalling every lurid Wild West Bloodbath scenario gun prohibitionists predict (but oddly never actually occur).

You make the mistake of equating the lethal quality (gun-death tautology) of American violence with more violence; we don't tolerate violence here as well as you might think... that's why starting it up it is more likely to lead to a lethal end. I might argue that we take violence far more seriously than these so-called "developed" nations that are so often used as comparisons. Punching the next guy for some kind of entertainment, or because he's wearing the colors of a rival's fancy kickball team just doesn't fly here. And those who believe they are so entitled, are often the stronger and more aggressive amongst us--guns remove ALL of their advantages over the weak. I'm very good with that arrangement.

You see, it's the romanticised notion of violence--INCLUDING the romanticised notions of those who think some beatings are just an expression of playfulness--that is problematic. Disarming the victim pool for those sociopaths is both intellectually and morally invalid.

]Yeah. My point stands: "Gun crime"...the rhetorical tautology that exposes anti-rights advocates for the callous human shit-birds that they are.

At the moment it is a Constitutional right but there is an amendment process, which could change all that.

Nonsense.

Strawman my arse. lt directly correlates to what type of society you wish to live in and the gun issue is a hot political potato that can make or break political careers. it's called context.

Literally NO ONE is arguing the position that, "...[we] should be allowed to do what [we] want when [we] want without consequences." That's a straw-man straight from your "arse."

Blood baths never occur? What was Sandy Hook and Virginia Tech? Sunday School picnics?

Seriously, you disingenuous faggot, try attacking a point I actually made.

Disarming the victim pool? Really.

Yes. Really. Emphatically so.

What a piss-weak argument.

Yet not refutable. How odd.

Most other western societies are disarmed (willing so too) and we certainly don't have the scourge of mass shootings that the US does.

Oh. Mass shootings, is it?

It's the shooting you have the problem with?

So you're good with all the other violence... because no shooting.

It is a very rare event.

It's rare here too.

My issue is not even one of 'gun crime', which you keep bringing up.

No. YOU keep bringing it up... everytime you set aside all the violence in your comparison nations that has no gun involvement.

Which is not surprising since the celebrated Australian gun control initiative has really had no effect on the Austrailian murder rate (I know... it's OK... no guns); and the violent crime rate... how's that working out?

It's one that what role does the proliferation of guns has in a modern society.

It seems like a meaningless question as far as violent crime is concerned... the issue must be political. Why would those in power wish to generally disarm the populace?

And I don't really give a shit about your constitutional right.

Well, that a lie right there.

Your rights stop when they start interfering with mine.

And do you want a clue, Princess? My right to keep and bear a fully automatic assault rifle (or any other gun) doesn't even start to interfere with your, or any one else's rights. IN ANY WAY!

I now invite you to please step the fuck off. Thank you.

And at the moment, in the US, those rights are fatally interfering with the lives of other people on an almost weekly basis.

Not in the real world, Princess. Not even once.

 

[Dr Grump]

Oh, poor widdle Loki likes his peashooters so much that the very thought of them being taken off him makes his sphincter contract faster than the pupils of a person whose been stuck in the dark for 20 years and has just had a torch shined on them.

Yeah, right. Mass shootings are a rare thing in the US. 300+ this year and counting... Mass Shootings in 2015 - Mass Shooting Tracker

We haven't even had ONE here you disingenuous fudge packer.

No lie at all about the Constitutional right, but I'll put it in context, because you are obviously a literalist and can't think laterally. While your argument would be that I must give a shit about the 2nd because I'm talking about it, I'll clarify my statement for your toxic-leaden brain. I don't give a shit if the 2nd is ever repealed. I hope it eventually will - sooner rather than later.

The minute somebody takes that assault rifle and starts shooting people and shit up they are interfering with my rights. How come you have to jump through hoops to get a driver's license etc, but for something like a lethal weapon you can just go into Walmart and pick one up. Before you say it is a constitutional right, I say, thus the reason to repel it. It's past it's use-by date....just like Salem Witch trials, prohibition and slavery.

 

[LOki]

Oh, poor widdle Loki likes his peashooters so much that the very thought of them being taken off him makes his sphincter contract faster than the pupils of a person whose been stuck in the dark for 20 years and has just had a torch shined on them.

Yeah, right. Mass shootings are a rare thing in the US. 300+ this year and counting... Mass Shootings in 2015 - Mass Shooting Tracker

We haven't even had ONE here you disingenuous fudge packer.

Oh. Still mass shootings, is it?

It's the shooting you have the problem with?

So you're good with all your other violence... because no shooting.

The minute somebody takes that assault rifle and starts shooting people and shit up they are interfering with my rights.

I fully agree, Princess. But, STRAW-MAN. Again.

NO ONE is defending or claiming any right to take an assault rifle and start shooting people and shit up.

Not the US Constitution, not the NRA, and certainly not me.

How come you have to jump through hoops to get a driver's license etc, but for something like a lethal weapon you can just go into Walmart and pick one up. Before you say it is a constitutional right, I say, thus the reason to repel it.

HAHA! You're an idiot!

It's past it's use-by date....just like Salem Witch trials, prohibition and slavery.

ALL of those are OBVIOUS arguments FOR why 2nd Amendment rights are relevant and must be defended. Irony is ironic.

 

[Dr Grump]

Oh. Still mass shootings, is it?

It's the shooting you have the problem with?

So you're good with all your other violence... because no shooting.

I fully agree, Princess. But, STRAW-MAN. Again.

NO ONE is defending or claiming any right to take an assault rifle and start shooting people and shit up.

Not the US Constitution, not the NRA, and certainly not me.

HAHA! You're an idiot!

It's past it's use-by date....just like Salem Witch trials, prohibition and slavery.

ALL of those are OBVIOUS arguments FOR why 2nd Amendment rights are relevant and must be defended. Irony is ironic.

Yeah, a great argument, because you know, most cars are used on private property. Great argument...not.

It is not a strawman. You live in this Utopian world where you can win your argument by claiming the by-product of actions with regard to guns doesn't have a place in the debate. Too which I say..bullshit....

 

[LOki]

Oh. Still mass shootings, is it?

It's the shooting you have the problem with?

So you're good with all your other violence... because no shooting.

I fully agree, Princess. But, STRAW-MAN. Again.

NO ONE is defending or claiming any right to take an assault rifle and start shooting people and shit up.

Not the US Constitution, not the NRA, and certainly not me.

HAHA! You're an idiot!

It's past it's use-by date....just like Salem Witch trials, prohibition and slavery.

ALL of those are OBVIOUS arguments FOR why 2nd Amendment rights are relevant and must be defended. Irony is ironic.

Yeah, a great argument, because you know, most cars are used on private property. Great argument...not.

Yet it is OBVIOUSLY more than enough to destroy your comparison. Otherwise you'd not just sail past the notion that most guns are NOT used or carrried publicly... in order to baselessly dismiss the point.

It is not a strawman.

It sure is, Princess. Yet I will admit that the implication of being made of staw gives your point the benefit of more substance than it deserves.

You live in this Utopian world where you can win your argument by claiming the by-product of actions with regard to guns doesn't have a place in the debate. Too which I say..bullshit....

NO ONE is defending or claiming any right to take an assault rifle and start shooting people and shit up.

Not the US Constitution, not the NRA, and certainly not me.

Not here, or in any bullshit "utopia" you've created out of nothing either.

 

[M14 Shooter]

To answer the OP, hell yes...

I agree actually....we should change the wording...."leftist jerks.....this means people get to own guns...is that simple enough for you?" And that won't solve the problem...but it would make us feel better when we have to listen to the anti gun jihadis lie about guns....

What's there to lie about? The US is the only developed country in the world where there is a proliferation of guns and you have the death stats that show what goes with that.

Three questions for you to answer -- won't happen, of course:
-What % of guns in the US are involved in a murder each year?
-What is the ratio of the number of guns involved in a murder to the number of guns that are not?
-How does this compare to the rest of the :developed countries"?

 

[M14 Shooter]

At the moment it is a Constitutional right but there is an amendment process, which could change all that.

Neither you nor any of your ilk have the stones to try.
Don't like the 2nd Amendment? Get off your ass and repeal it. Really. | US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

And I don't really give a shit about your constitutional right. Your rights stop when they start interfering with mine.

Indeed.
Tell us then how my ownership/possession of firearms harms you or places you in a condition of clear, present and immediate danger.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Three questions for you to answer -- won't happen, of course:
-What % of guns in the US are involved in a murder each year?
-What is the ratio of the number of guns involved in a murder to the number of guns that are not?
-How does this compare to the rest of the :developed countries"?

1. Who cares.
2. Who cares.
3. Who cares.

We aren't worried about gun control in other nations, just here. Where it's good, not here, it works...

 

[M14 Shooter]

Oh, poor widdle Loki likes his peashooters so much that the very thought of them being taken off him makes his sphincter contract faster than the pupils of a person whose been stuck in the dark for 20 years and has just had a torch shined on them.

Oh look... playground arguments. Nice.

 

[LOki]

Also:

Oh, poor widdle Loki likes his peashooters so much that the very thought of them being taken off him makes his sphincter contract faster than the pupils of a person whose been stuck in the dark for 20 years and has just had a torch shined on them.

Yeah, right. Mass shootings are a rare thing in the US. 300+ this year and counting... Mass Shootings in 2015 - Mass Shooting Tracker

We haven't even had ONE here you disingenuous fudge packer.

Here's one.
And another.
And another.
And another.

There are more mass murders in Australia, but since guns weren't used, Grump says they're OK.

 

[Dr Grump]

Three questions for you to answer -- won't happen, of course:
-What % of guns in the US are involved in a murder each year?
-What is the ratio of the number of guns involved in a murder to the number of guns that are not?
-How does this compare to the rest of the :developed countries"?

I have answered this question more times than I care to remember on this board. The questions are false ones. It's like saying how much snow does it take to freeze you to death. It doesnt matter. You're dead.

At the end of the day, you have a gun culture out of control and the vast majority of Americans are kowtowing to a group of bully boys who are still living in the past.

 

[Dr Grump]

Indeed.
Tell us then how my ownership/possession of firearms harms you or places you in a condition of clear, present and immediate danger.

You personally? It doesn't. But how about the bigger picture? Ie the kids at Sandy Hook or students at Virginia Tech.

 

[Dr Grump]

Also:

Oh, poor widdle Loki likes his peashooters so much that the very thought of them being taken off him makes his sphincter contract faster than the pupils of a person whose been stuck in the dark for 20 years and has just had a torch shined on them.

Yeah, right. Mass shootings are a rare thing in the US. 300+ this year and counting... Mass Shootings in 2015 - Mass Shooting Tracker

We haven't even had ONE here you disingenuous fudge packer.

Here's one.
And another.
And another.
And another.

There are more mass murders in Australia, but since guns weren't used, Grump says they're OK.

In fact, guns were used in one of your examples. You really should read you own links. That aside, you're comparing 3 mass killings in Australia over a three year period to more than 300 in nine months in the US in this year alone? Really?

 

[Dr Grump]

Oh, poor widdle Loki likes his peashooters so much that the very thought of them being taken off him makes his sphincter contract faster than the pupils of a person whose been stuck in the dark for 20 years and has just had a torch shined on them.

Oh look... playground arguments. Nice.

Well, it's said in a 'playground' way, but there is a serious undertone. I have definitely seen anecdotal evidence that there is a certain proportion of Americans who love their guns because they feel empowered having such a thing in their hands. Makes them feel 'big' and 'powerful'. And it disgusts me.

 

[LOki]

Also:

Oh, poor widdle Loki likes his peashooters so much that the very thought of them being taken off him makes his sphincter contract faster than the pupils of a person whose been stuck in the dark for 20 years and has just had a torch shined on them.

Yeah, right. Mass shootings are a rare thing in the US. 300+ this year and counting... Mass Shootings in 2015 - Mass Shooting Tracker

We haven't even had ONE here you disingenuous fudge packer.

Here's one.
And another.
And another.
And another.

There are more mass murders in Australia, but since guns weren't used, Grump says they're OK.

In fact, guns were used in one of your examples. You really should read you own links. That aside, you're comparing 3 mass killings in Australia over a three year period to more than 300 in nine months in the US in this year alone? Really?

1) I'm not making any such equivalency, Princess. You said, "We haven't even had ONE here you disingenuous fudge packer." You provided the emphasis, in case you forgot.

2)Oh. Still mass shootings, is it?

It's the shooting you have the problem with?

So you're good with all your other violence... because no shooting.

 

[Dr Grump]

Here's one.
And another.
And another.
And another.


1) I'm not making any such equivalency, Princess. You said, "We haven't even had ONE here you disingenuous fudge packer." You provided the emphasis, in case you forgot.

2)Oh. Still mass shootings, is it?

It's the shooting you have the problem with?

So you're good with all your other violence... because no shooting.

Ahh, once again the literalist. I posted a link for mass shootings in the US for 2015. I wrote we haven't had one here (meaning 2015). You then post three links dating between 2009-2012. Last time I looked none of those dates are 2015...

Speaking of dicks....

Yeah i have a problem with 300+ mass shooting within 9 months in a so-called civilised society. What I find disturbing is you apparently don't. Instead you quote three mass killings over a three year period, one of which does involve a firearm....

So this is the crux of your argument:
3 mass shootings/stabbings over a three year period in Australia equals 300+ such events in the US over 9 months. Let's equal it out...that means for every 1 mass event in Australia there are 400 in the US??

And
1) That makes you point???
2) You seem okay with that?


okkkaaaayyy....