Should the Federal Government Own Nevada ?

[flacaltenn]

The federal grazing fee that Bundy refuses to pay is $1.35 per month per cow.

The market rate on private lands in Nevada is $16.80.

Bundy refused to pay for something he was getting at a 90+% discount, at the expense of the taxpayers.

Op-ed: Cliven Bundy is a food-stamp cowboy | The Salt Lake Tribune

Seriously, if Bundy got what he thinks he wants out of this, wouldn't he end up paying more for the grass his moocher cows are grazing? He says he doesn't "recognize" the Federal Government and wants to deal with his local county government...

Most states charge more for their grazing fees than the feds do.

You can charge anything you want if you control 80% of the available rangeland in a state -- couldn't you?
And in most states, you could graze 4 times the head/acre than you can in the desert.

 

[peach174]

Why does the federal government own Nevada?

The federal government owns Vegas?!?

The Federal government owns big chunks of Nevada because they paid for it. Duh.

Paid for it, hardly, they kept it as a condition for statehood.

Yes we did pay for it.

The Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo, officially entitled the Treaty of Peace, Friendship, Limits and Settlement between the United States of America and the Mexican Republic, is the peace treaty signed in 1848 in the Villa de Guadalupe Hidalgo (now a neighborhood of Mexico City) between the U.S. and Mexico that ended the Mexican–American War (1846–48).
With the defeat of its army and the fall of the capital, Mexico entered into negotiations to end the war. The treaty called for the United States to pay $15 million to Mexico and pay off the claims of American citizens against Mexico up to $3.25 million.

It gave the United States the Rio Grande boundary for Texas, and gave the U.S. ownership of California, and a large area comprising New Mexico, Arizona, Nevada, Utah, and parts of Wyoming and Colorado. Mexicans in those annexed areas had the choice of relocating to Mexico or receiving American citizenship with full civil rights; over 90% remained.

 

[peach174]

I think we should plant cotton on our Nevada land. We could hire negroes from Las Vegas to pick it. Maybe sing songs while they pick. Good hard work will make them value money more and they will be happier

Work is a good thing.... seems like that's frowned upon these days.
But why work when you know the government will be supporting you for eternity.

Very true

Nothin builds character like a day pick'n cotton

News Flash !
Due to wonderful technology ,nobody picks cotton any more. Machines do it.

 

[OKTexas]

The federal government owns Vegas?!?

The Federal government owns big chunks of Nevada because they paid for it. Duh.

Paid for it, hardly, they kept it as a condition for statehood.

Yes we did pay for it.

The Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo, officially entitled the Treaty of Peace, Friendship, Limits and Settlement between the United States of America and the Mexican Republic, is the peace treaty signed in 1848 in the Villa de Guadalupe Hidalgo (now a neighborhood of Mexico City) between the U.S. and Mexico that ended the Mexican–American War (1846–48).
With the defeat of its army and the fall of the capital, Mexico entered into negotiations to end the war. The treaty called for the United States to pay $15 million to Mexico and pay off the claims of American citizens against Mexico up to $3.25 million.

It gave the United States the Rio Grande boundary for Texas, and gave the U.S. ownership of California, and a large area comprising New Mexico, Arizona, Nevada, Utah, and parts of Wyoming and Colorado. Mexicans in those annexed areas had the choice of relocating to Mexico or receiving American citizenship with full civil rights; over 90% remained.

Right, the feds told them were are granting you status as a sovereign state with these borders, and BTW you are only sovereign over 15% of it. What a freaking DEAL.

 

[flacaltenn]

Paid for it, hardly, they kept it as a condition for statehood.

Yes we did pay for it.

The Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo, officially entitled the Treaty of Peace, Friendship, Limits and Settlement between the United States of America and the Mexican Republic, is the peace treaty signed in 1848 in the Villa de Guadalupe Hidalgo (now a neighborhood of Mexico City) between the U.S. and Mexico that ended the Mexican–American War (1846–48).
With the defeat of its army and the fall of the capital, Mexico entered into negotiations to end the war. The treaty called for the United States to pay $15 million to Mexico and pay off the claims of American citizens against Mexico up to $3.25 million.

It gave the United States the Rio Grande boundary for Texas, and gave the U.S. ownership of California, and a large area comprising New Mexico, Arizona, Nevada, Utah, and parts of Wyoming and Colorado. Mexicans in those annexed areas had the choice of relocating to Mexico or receiving American citizenship with full civil rights; over 90% remained.

Right, the feds told them were are granting you status as a sovereign state with these borders, and BTW you are only sovereign over 15% of it. What a freaking DEAL.

Yeah. those maps of "sovereign" states sure look different when you take into account the ABSENTEE land LORD who gets to tell the SERFs what they can and cannot do with their "sovereignty"..

I've got to look it up.. But there was a resolution passed by Congress in the early 90s promising to address this GLUT of Fed owned land..

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

This could negatively affect our system of government known as federalism as states collectively serve as a check on federal overreach. This check is impaired when the federal government owns part or most of their land.

Ignorant nonsense.

It was not the intent of the Framers that the states ‘check’ Federal ‘overreach,’ that is the responsible of the Federal courts, where Federal ownership of these lands does not constitute ‘overreach,’

In fact, it was the intent of the Framers that the states not interfere with the people and their relationship with their National government (see, e.g., US Term Limits v. Thornton (1995)). The people created the National government, representing all of the people, acting at their behest; the Federal stewardship of public lands is done in the name of the people as those lands belong to the people.

And it was the intent of the Framers that the National government was to be supreme, the states subject to acts of Congress and rulings of the Federal courts, as codified by Article VI of the Constitution (Cooper v. Aaron (1958)).

 

[NYcarbineer]

The federal grazing fee that Bundy refuses to pay is $1.35 per month per cow.

The market rate on private lands in Nevada is $16.80.

Bundy refused to pay for something he was getting at a 90+% discount, at the expense of the taxpayers.

Op-ed: Cliven Bundy is a food-stamp cowboy | The Salt Lake Tribune

Seriously, if Bundy got what he thinks he wants out of this, wouldn't he end up paying more for the grass his moocher cows are grazing? He says he doesn't "recognize" the Federal Government and wants to deal with his local county government...

Most states charge more for their grazing fees than the feds do.

You can charge anything you want if you control 80% of the available rangeland in a state -- couldn't you?
And in most states, you could graze 4 times the head/acre than you can in the desert.

Bundy was being charged about 8% of what private land cost. Pay attention.

 

[OnePercenter]

Since the majority of what the government owns in Nevada is a former test site and radioactive, a bombing range with live bombs, or runways in the middle of nowhere, I don't see a problem.

 

[flacaltenn]

Since the majority of what the government owns in Nevada is a former test site and radioactive, a bombing range with live bombs, or runways in the middle of nowhere, I don't see a problem.

Ever spent a day in Valley of Fire outside of Vegas? Guess not..
That land has uses.. It borders one of America's premier recreational areas at Lake Mead.
The fact that the Govt has to totally close viable range land in a SMALL portion of their holdings, means that somewhere -- their priorities SUCK or they have other motives..

Especially when it appears from their actions, it's NOT really about tortoises..
You know they live for decades.. Probably some with burn scars on their shells from the Atomic blasts running around on BLM land. Go ask a one-eyed tortoise what it was like in the days when the Feds were NUKING them.... And whether they'd rather deal with the occasional cow --- or a drone missile strike...

 

[OnePercenter]

Since the majority of what the government owns in Nevada is a former test site and radioactive, a bombing range with live bombs, or runways in the middle of nowhere, I don't see a problem.

Ever spent a day in Valley of Fire outside of Vegas? Guess not..
That land has uses.. It borders one of America's premier recreational areas at Lake Mead.
The fact that the Govt has to totally close viable range land in a SMALL portion of their holdings, means that somewhere -- their priorities SUCK or they have other motives..

Especially when it appears from their actions, it's NOT really about tortoises..
You know they live for decades.. Probably some with burn scars on their shells from the Atomic blasts running around on BLM land. Go ask a one-eyed tortoise what it was like in the days when the Feds were NUKING them.... And whether they'd rather deal with the occasional cow --- or a drone missile strike...

Valley of Fire is a State Park. Try again.

 

[jon_berzerk]

Maintenance and improvement of the grazing lands is paid for out of the grazing fees.

bullshit

any fencing laying water and any roads to the cattle is paid for by the rancher

plus the rancher has non exclusive rights to the land (other cattle and creature use it)

this is why it costs less

Roads built on federal grazing lands are built by the ranchers in addition to their grazing fees?

yes

plus water lines and fencing

often times it costs a rancher more for public land the for private land

the fed use a formula (PRIA) to set the rate

 

[jon_berzerk]

Seriously, if Bundy got what he thinks he wants out of this, wouldn't he end up paying more for the grass his moocher cows are grazing? He says he doesn't "recognize" the Federal Government and wants to deal with his local county government...

Most states charge more for their grazing fees than the feds do.

You can charge anything you want if you control 80% of the available rangeland in a state -- couldn't you?
And in most states, you could graze 4 times the head/acre than you can in the desert.

Bundy was being charged about 8% of what private land cost. Pay attention.

by now you should have had the ability to google and explain why this is
(there are literally hundreds of sites that explain this )

ranchers are not getting by cheaply

http://ir.library.oregonstate.edu/xmlui/bitstream/handle/1957/5871/SR no. 903_OCR.pdf

 

[bodecea]

to make yourself look really smert, research why they federal lands are like they are...

since you're the smart ass why not tell us...?

Because you learn more effectively when you look it up yourself instead of being a freeloader expecting others to do your work for you.

 

[editec]

PROPERTY RIGHTS.

Yes the Federal government has them too.

Bundy is a deadbeat rentor.

That is the whole story.

He is ripping off the USA.

 

[regent]

How long would America last if it did not enforce its laws? At one time the government would have gone in with force, Whiskey Rebellion 1794; Civil War 1861; Bonus army 1932, but today it seems to bide its time and hopefully needless deaths need not occur, but some do. Let them play their cowboy games and at the right time....

 

[jon_berzerk]

How long would America last if it did not enforce its laws? At one time the government would have gone in with force, Whiskey Rebellion 1794; Civil War 1861; Bonus army 1932, but today it seems to bide its time and hopefully needless deaths need not occur, but some do. Let them play their cowboy games and at the right time....

good question

now that laws are being arbitrarily enforced now

 

[nodoginnafight]

If Nevada wants this land, they can amend their constitution (which expressly gives it to the all the people of the United States) and then ask the people of the United States to give it back.

Until that happens - it's a moot point.

 

[flacaltenn]

PROPERTY RIGHTS.

Yes the Federal government has them too.

Bundy is a deadbeat rentor.

That is the whole story.

He is ripping off the USA.

He has been denied access to land neccessary to maintain his family's 150 year business. For reasons that are arrogant and unfathomable and indefensible. And the only reason the story about poor mgt of land in Nevada is about HIM --- is because the Govt doesn't want it to be about all those ugly things that they can't defend.. Like that map of THEIR land use in Southern Nevada and the euthanizing and cleansing of tortoises.

 

[nodoginnafight]

PROPERTY RIGHTS.

Yes the Federal government has them too.

Bundy is a deadbeat rentor.

That is the whole story.

He is ripping off the USA.

100% correct

He's been denied access because he hasn't paid his grazing fees in 20 years.

Nuff said.

 

[flacaltenn]

PROPERTY RIGHTS.

Yes the Federal government has them too.

Bundy is a deadbeat rentor.

That is the whole story.

He is ripping off the USA.

100% correct

He's been denied access because he hasn't paid his grazing fees in 20 years.

Nuff said.

Not correct.. EVERYONE has been denied access for reasons that the Govt doesn't want to defend. Bundy is only character left RESISTING that edict.. There is no more grazing allowed on those lands..