Should we Erase Columbus or others from the History Books?

[JoeB131]

They conquered a continent. And gave you a good life.

Too bad I have too much of a conscience to realize that was bought at a terrible human cost. But I guess you aren't burdened by that problem.

 

[Polishprince]

They conquered a continent. And gave you a good life.

Too bad I have too much of a conscience to realize that was bought at a terrible human cost. But I guess you aren't burdened by that problem.

You don't have to accept it, Joe. I don't know where your ancestors are from, but there is no reason you can't go back to Shithole that your antecedents abandoned and pursue a career in hunting and/or gathering.

 

[rightwinger]

Another handful of years and Columbus Day will be completely gone, but that's ok.
What's important, is European came to this hemisphere and put in motion what would come to be the greatest technological progress in human history.

It doesn't matter whether Columbus was first, or not even close. We simply use him as a figurehead for the beginning of the most glorious time in human history.

About Erickson...anyone familiar at all with Viking exploration knows that they chopped first and asked questions later. It's a pretty fair bet that Erickson killed any indigenous bodies he came in contact with.

Jo

Thats a very narrow view. The Vikings were a lot more than that.

in a reference to global warming, there are Viking farms under the Greenland ice sheet.

LOL

Guess that proves there is no global warming. Did you know it still snows in the winter and them liberals think there is global warming?

 

[rightwinger]

They conquered a continent. And gave you a good life.

Too bad I have too much of a conscience to realize that was bought at a terrible human cost. But I guess you aren't burdened by that problem.

In the 16th century they were not considered human. They were looked at as savages with no real rights.

 

[anynameyouwish]

So Columbus, like most of the early world explorers was an exploitationist and at times inhumanely cruel. What are the real ethics we are reaching for here? We already knew most of this. Centuries later the celebration of Columbus Day has about as much to do with Christopher Columbus as a cigar store elephant statue has to do with a Wooley mammoth.

Fact is these things actually happened. Not giving them "press" so to speak isn't going to change that fact.

The idea of the Western Hemisphere being located by European culture...the predominant world culture of the time is a pretty big deal.

Really it's irrelevant who Columbus was
Cad, slaver, exploiter.... It's more important to know what role he played in the process of connecting the two hemispheres. As for Columbus Day why bother to change the name? How does that contribute to the factuality or non factuality of its history? Should all of Latin America now reject the Spanish language as racist and abusive?

I'm all for teaching kids the whole story
But I resist the Idea that removing Columbus's name from the day somehow improves us morally. It is quite impossible for us to reach back and correct the wrongs of History...even pretending that we can is foolish.

Jo

Erase?

no.

Just give the facts and tell the truth.

 

[22lcidw]

Another handful of years and Columbus Day will be completely gone, but that's ok.
What's important, is European came to this hemisphere and put in motion what would come to be the greatest technological progress in human history.

It doesn't matter whether Columbus was first, or not even close. We simply use him as a figurehead for the beginning of the most glorious time in human history.

About Erickson...anyone familiar at all with Viking exploration knows that they chopped first and asked questions later. It's a pretty fair bet that Erickson killed any indigenous bodies he came in contact with.

Jo

Thats a very narrow view. The Vikings were a lot more than that.

in a reference to global warming, there are Viking farms under the Greenland ice sheet.

LOL

Guess that proves there is no global warming. Did you know it still snows in the winter and them liberals think there is global warming?

Slavery comes in many forms.

 

[rightwinger]

Another handful of years and Columbus Day will be completely gone, but that's ok.
What's important, is European came to this hemisphere and put in motion what would come to be the greatest technological progress in human history.

It doesn't matter whether Columbus was first, or not even close. We simply use him as a figurehead for the beginning of the most glorious time in human history.

About Erickson...anyone familiar at all with Viking exploration knows that they chopped first and asked questions later. It's a pretty fair bet that Erickson killed any indigenous bodies he came in contact with.

Jo

Thats a very narrow view. The Vikings were a lot more than that.

in a reference to global warming, there are Viking farms under the Greenland ice sheet.

LOL

Guess that proves there is no global warming. Did you know it still snows in the winter and them liberals think there is global warming?

Slavery comes in many forms.

How profound

 

[22lcidw]

They conquered a continent. And gave you a good life.

Too bad I have too much of a conscience to realize that was bought at a terrible human cost. But I guess you aren't burdened by that problem.

I got more conscience and guilt then you know. Between the Catholic Church , the Catholic Schools and my parents I sin for breathing. But I know where our good lives come from. Of the nations that colonized the new world, only England had any type of basic rights and it was still rudimentary. The "Rule of Law" and the Magna Carta. Those two minor but important pieces of slender rights made what would become the United States and Canada the major players in the Western Hemisphere. You think the world is about civility. It is not. The world is about violence with periods of civility. And when you end it here the Western Hemisphere is going to have the mother of all blow offs. p.s...I do not want to be on the receiving end of tyranny in any form like you do not. The past can not be changed. We can harp on it forever.

 

[Rustic]

Nope, just list the evildoers' genocidal crimes first.

But we should celebrate Columbus more accurately...

View attachment 251420

View attachment 251421

 

[Polishprince]

They conquered a continent. And gave you a good life.

Too bad I have too much of a conscience to realize that was bought at a terrible human cost. But I guess you aren't burdened by that problem.

In the 16th century they were not considered human. They were looked at as savages with no real rights.

Where did you get that idea? The people of Africa as well as the Indians of America were considered savages, but definitely were known to be human. In fact, missionaries were among the first Europeans sent to the New World to convert them away from their paganistic human sacrificing ways. Considering the fact that human sacrifices are quite rare in Mexico or America nowadays, I think they did a tremendous job.

 

[rightwinger]

They conquered a continent. And gave you a good life.

Too bad I have too much of a conscience to realize that was bought at a terrible human cost. But I guess you aren't burdened by that problem.

In the 16th century they were not considered human. They were looked at as savages with no real rights.

Where did you get that idea? The people of Africa as well as the Indians of America were considered savages, but definitely were known to be human. In fact, missionaries were among the first Europeans sent to the New World to convert them away from their paganistic human sacrificing ways. Considering the fact that human sacrifices are quite rare in Mexico or America nowadays, I think they did a tremendous job.

Death Penalty is only used in one nation in the Western Hemisphere

 

[Rustic]

Really it's irrelevant who Columbus was
Cad, slaver, exploiter.... It's more important to know what role he played in the process of connecting the two hemispheres. As for Columbus Day why bother to change the name? How does that contribute to the factuality or non factuality of its history? Should all of Latin America now reject the Spanish language as racist and abusive?

I'm all for teaching kids the whole story
But I resist the Idea that removing Columbus's name from the day somehow improves us morally. It is quite impossible for us to reach back and correct the wrongs of History...even pretending that we can is foolish.

It's fun to watch white people act like they are being put upon when they are asked to do something decent.

Okay, let's put this in a more modern perspective. The world just found out Michael Jackson was a pedophile. Actually, we all kind of knew it for decades, but we ignored it because people enjoyed his music so much. But now we can't really deny it anymore. It really doesn't change one note of one of his songs, but it puts them in a whole new context. So yes, radio station and streaming services are pulling his music.

"but, but, Thriller was the greatest album of all time".. Maybe, but doesn't take away from the horrible human cost, does it.

Now, what Columbus did resulting in tens of millions of deaths, the start of the trans-Atlantic slave trade (because those Native Americans were dying off faster than the Europeans could exploit them, so let's bring in some black folks.). Lots of horrible things happened, but if you are a European-American, you benefited greatly. My father had a much nicer life here in America than he would have had in that crappy little town in Germany where he came from.

At a certain point, we need to stop and realize that this all had a horrible human cost. And while we should concentrate on righting wrongs in the here and now, taking down the statues of Columbus or Robert E. Lee would also be a good place to make amends.

Lol
Political correctness has made you into a pussy… it’s a good thing that you live in your mothers basement

 

[JoeB131]

You don't have to accept it, Joe. I don't know where your ancestors are from, but there is no reason you can't go back to Shithole that your antecedents abandoned and pursue a career in hunting and/or gathering.

How many Pollocks does it take to miss a point?

At least one.

 

[Polishprince]

They conquered a continent. And gave you a good life.

Too bad I have too much of a conscience to realize that was bought at a terrible human cost. But I guess you aren't burdened by that problem.

In the 16th century they were not considered human. They were looked at as savages with no real rights.

Where did you get that idea? The people of Africa as well as the Indians of America were considered savages, but definitely were known to be human. In fact, missionaries were among the first Europeans sent to the New World to convert them away from their paganistic human sacrificing ways. Considering the fact that human sacrifices are quite rare in Mexico or America nowadays, I think they did a tremendous job.

Death Penalty is only used in one nation in the Western Hemisphere

The Death Penalty isn't "human sacrifice".

BTW, most of the civilized world has no problem with punishing murderer appropriately. China, Japan, India, Africa. Countries like the Great Nation of Singapore with give you a singapore style caning first.

 

[Rustic]

Yes, and you might as well then erase every historical figure from the beginning of time since their beliefs and habits would be utterly appalling when viewed from todays standards.

Columbus is the accepted figure that we use to mark the beginning of when the technological world landed here.
Were natives slaughtered during this period of expansion ? Yes, but there was also plenty of greatness that occured that bettered humankind worldwide.

Um, except for the US and Canada, most of the "New World" are poor countries. Human kind was not bettered because Europe exploited the Americas and then the rest of the world.

Lol
If it was not for Europeans treating their people like shit my ancestors would still be playing around with sticks and dirt and worshiping dirt, your white ancestors brought Decency to the new world... Without even knowing it.

 

[22lcidw]

About Erickson...anyone familiar at all with Viking exploration knows that they chopped first and asked questions later. It's a pretty fair bet that Erickson killed any indigenous bodies he came in contact with.

Jo

Thats a very narrow view. The Vikings were a lot more than that.

in a reference to global warming, there are Viking farms under the Greenland ice sheet.

LOL

Guess that proves there is no global warming. Did you know it still snows in the winter and them liberals think there is global warming?

Slavery comes in many forms.

How profound

It exists today. Its a deplorable thing.

 

[Polishprince]

Thats a very narrow view. The Vikings were a lot more than that.

in a reference to global warming, there are Viking farms under the Greenland ice sheet.

LOL

Guess that proves there is no global warming. Did you know it still snows in the winter and them liberals think there is global warming?

Slavery comes in many forms.

How profound

It exists today. Its a deplorable thing.

when the Party of the Deplorables was founded, getting rid of slavery was the number one goal, and remains so to this day.

 

[rightwinger]

They conquered a continent. And gave you a good life.

Too bad I have too much of a conscience to realize that was bought at a terrible human cost. But I guess you aren't burdened by that problem.

In the 16th century they were not considered human. They were looked at as savages with no real rights.

Where did you get that idea? The people of Africa as well as the Indians of America were considered savages, but definitely were known to be human. In fact, missionaries were among the first Europeans sent to the New World to convert them away from their paganistic human sacrificing ways. Considering the fact that human sacrifices are quite rare in Mexico or America nowadays, I think they did a tremendous job.

Death Penalty is only used in one nation in the Western Hemisphere

The Death Penalty isn't "human sacrifice".

BTW, most of the civilized world has no problem with punishing murderer appropriately. China, Japan, India, Africa. Countries like the Great Nation of Singapore with give you a singapore style caning first.

All of Europe, Russia, South America, Mexico, Canada, Australia.....all ban executions

So does most of the civilized US

 

[Polishprince]

Too bad I have too much of a conscience to realize that was bought at a terrible human cost. But I guess you aren't burdened by that problem.

In the 16th century they were not considered human. They were looked at as savages with no real rights.

Where did you get that idea? The people of Africa as well as the Indians of America were considered savages, but definitely were known to be human. In fact, missionaries were among the first Europeans sent to the New World to convert them away from their paganistic human sacrificing ways. Considering the fact that human sacrifices are quite rare in Mexico or America nowadays, I think they did a tremendous job.

Death Penalty is only used in one nation in the Western Hemisphere

The Death Penalty isn't "human sacrifice".

BTW, most of the civilized world has no problem with punishing murderer appropriately. China, Japan, India, Africa. Countries like the Great Nation of Singapore with give you a singapore style caning first.

All of Europe, Russia, South America, Mexico, Canada, Australia.....all ban executions

So does most of the civilized US

Are you saying that China, India, Singapore, Africa are uncivilized?

Obama had no problem making a deal with Iran that executes people for homosexuality by chucking them off tall buildings

 

[DGS49]

Christopher Columbus was a great explorer and entrepreneur. His bravery, foresight, and perseverance can be a model for all. The others who are mentioned as having come to the New World earlier deserve nothing more than a footnote in history. Columbus got the ball rolling, and the world is much better for it.

The indigenous population of the Americas at the time of Columbus was culturally and technologically "retarded," having no real metallurgy, no domesticated animals, and had not even invented the wheel. Many still practiced human sacrifice, none had what could reasonably be described as a written language. The native "Americans" adhered to the same rules of conquest and domination as the rest of the world, they practiced slavery and polygamy, and their leaders were generally the best fighters.

The vast majority of the deaths of natives after the advent of the Europeans were the result of the inadvertent, innocent, and unknowing passing of diseases, and not any plan or program of "genocide." The Europeans ultimately prevailed in battle against the Americans not because they were "evil" and the Americans "good," but simply because the Europeans had vastly superior weapons, domesticated animals - mainly horses - and technology.

Most of the natives of North America were near-stone-age hunter-gatherers whose culture, religions, and collective "wisdom" had essentially no value when compared to what was brought by the Europeans - analogous to someone today knowing how to make a birch bark canoe.

European Christians fervently believed that the natives were condemned to eternal suffering and torment because of their primitive pagan religions, and tens of thousands of Europeans literally risked and gave their lives to the mission of modernizing, converting, and saving the natives. Revisionists who now claim that the natives were being "exploited" are idiots.

As is anyone who looks at a major historical figure in the "light" of today's cultural values, which one might note, change by the week.