Should We Teach Creation As Science In Public Schools?

[james bond]

Science does NOT back up the Bible by any stretch of the imagination. Even the great sage Rambam deferred to science.

I've already posted the youtube of what science backed up and we discussed fountains of the deep. How would the ancient Bible know hydrothermal vents?

You can believe whatever atheist stuff you want. I'm not trying to change you, but correct you as atheists are usually wrong.

 

[Wuwei]

You're a troll and being ignored by me. Real science backs up the Bible while no science backs up evolution; It's not observable nor testable. Just stop discussing me with others as you should just ignore what I have to say since I'm the troll to you.

Oh yes I know I'm on your ignore list. It would really help the discussion if you talked more specifically about the science, and not just continually repeat science backs the Bible.
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[surada]

I've already posted the youtube of what science backed up and we discussed fountains of the deep. How would the ancient Bible know hydrothermal vents?

You can believe whatever atheist stuff you want. I'm not trying to change you, but correct you as atheists are usually wrong.

I'm not an atheist. God gave us a brain. We should use it.

 

[Hollie]

You're a troll and being ignored by me. Real science backs up the Bible while no science backs up evolution; It's not observable nor testable. Just stop discussing me with others as you should just ignore what I have to say since I'm the troll to you.

You have never identified how science “backs up the Bibles”. That’s simply a slogan you cut and paste into most into threads.

Where has science ever “backed up” dead people coming back to life?

Where does science “back up” a flat earth?

 

[james bond]

I'm not an atheist. God gave us a brain. We should use it.

You are what you are. It is what it is. One has to believe something. This is the science section. Even though one member thinks science is not about believing, it is. The atheist scientists have taken over and made people think creation science is religion when it is the real science. There's nothing real about evolution. I proved it because it isn't observable nor testable. One member here has gone looney/stupid over it. He steals what I said and then claims it's atheist science. Another says I'm a troll and keeps following me instead of ignoring. Otherwise, we would be discussing the same thing and thinking about and working out the details.

 

[surada]

You have never identified how science “backs up the Bibles”. That’s simply a slogan you cut and paste into most into threads.

Where has science ever “backed up” dead people coming back to life?

Where does science “back up” a flat earth?

It doesn't.. There are MANY anachronisms in the Bible as well as errors of geography. There is no Rapture in the Bible or King Solomon's Mines. Much of what is attributed to Solomon is the work of King Omri.

The Red Sea and Gulf of Aqaba are too steep and too deep to have been walked by 3 million people and their livestock. There is NO world wide flood footprint..Either you leave the church or look for the deeper message.

 

[Wuwei]

You're a troll and being ignored by me. Real science backs up the Bible while no science backs up evolution; It's not observable nor testable. Just stop discussing me with others as you should just ignore what I have to say since I'm the troll to you.

I will contribute to this forum whether I'm on your ignore list or not. I am willing to discuss creation science as long as it is a clean debate without ad hominem.

 

[alang1216]

>>That's not true. As I recall Noah saw a bird and knew that land had appeared because it found a fresh olive leaf. Obviously some life survived.<<

Heh. So now you're confessing that you didn't read the Bible because you were so wrong and called what I said a lie.

I have read the Bible but that is not relevant to my point. You said there was nothing left alive after the flood yet there was a fresh olive leaf.

There was not only a dove that Noah sent out, but a raven. Thus, you were wrong again.

If you actually read what I wrote you'd see I said 'bird'. Both doves and ravens would qualify.

No life survived, but you claim bacteria survived. You are trying so hard to find a contradiction. Instead, you have contradicted yourself.

I asked about bacteria since there was no mention of it in the Bible and there are no males or females. Not surprising since the Bible doesn't mention any life not found in the Middle East. You'd think kangaroos would be worth a mention at least.

We should teach this Noah's Flood and creation science in schools as there is scientific evidence for the global flood. Then you would know the answers instead of contradicting yourself.

There is NO evidence for a single, global flood, only local floods. Sorry. Since the Flood was a supernatural event, as you said, it would not be appropriate to include it in a science course. Science is the study of nature, not the supernatural. That is the province of religion.

Let's talk about bacteria. How does it breathe? What does it breathe? Can you see that a flood would kill bacteria, too? I'm sick of explaining and showing proof to atheists, but they just can't believe it. smh lol.

Would a flood kill bacteria? I have no idea, bacteria live everywhere. Would a flood kill a fish? I have no idea.

You also mentioned the olive leaf. Now, that takes more explanation, but how fast do olive trees grow? Wouldn't there have been enough time for it to grow again?

Seems unlikely it would have time to grow since it would have had to happen in less than 7 days. Another miracle?

 

[james bond]

I have read the Bible but that is not relevant to my point. You said there was nothing left alive after the flood yet there was a fresh olive leaf.


If you actually read what I wrote you'd see I said 'bird'. Both doves and ravens would qualify.


I asked about bacteria since there was no mention of it in the Bible and there are no males or females. Not surprising since the Bible doesn't mention any life not found in the Middle East. You'd think kangaroos would be worth a mention at least.


There is NO evidence for a single, global flood, only local floods. Sorry. Since the Flood was a supernatural event, as you said, it would not be appropriate to include it in a science course. Science is the study of nature, not the supernatural. That is the province of religion.


Would a flood kill bacteria? I have no idea, bacteria live everywhere. Would a flood kill a fish? I have no idea.


Seems unlikely it would have time to grow since it would have had to happen in less than 7 days. Another miracle?

The olive tree grew rapidly after the waters subsided. Look up olive trees and ancient olives trees in Israel.

Since, we're being picky, there were ahem TWO birds -- a dove and a raven sent out. Not a "bird." Do you know why Noah would do that?

This goes to show atheists are usually wrong. You claimed,

>>"That's not true. As I recall Noah saw a bird and knew that land had appeared because it found a fresh olive leaf. Obviously some life survived."<<

It was Noah who sent the birds out, not that he saw a bird that survived. The olive tree grew once the waters had subsided and land was above water again. What do you know about olive trees in Israel? The bird(s) and olive leaf doesn't mean that life had survived lol.

Lol about NO evidence for a global flood. Just the geography in the US shows different and we find fossils on mountain tops. Why do you think we do mining on moutain tops, too?

Flood killed bacteria as they breathe air. I would think it killed the fish, too, from the force of the water or hot water rising up from beneath although there is debate about it among creation scientists.

Why are NASA scientists exploring for habitable planets and they are looking for planets that have subterranean oceans and magnetic fields surrounding it? What were they looking for in the recent Mars exploration?

>>Seems unlikely it would have time to grow since it would have had to happen in less than 7 days. Another miracle?<<

Lolwut?

 

[james bond]

I understand how desperate you are to force your religious view on others, especially in the public schools but that horse is not just dead, it’s a Montanan fossil.

Dover was perhaps the last gasp for fundamentalist Christians to force religion nto the public schools. Earlier attempts by fundie christians to force Christian creationism into the schools made no effort to conceal the agenda of promoting Biblical literalism. Those efforts were originally titled as "Biblical Creationism" with great candor. Faced with the correct legal conclusions that it was merely religion, they retreated and renamed it "Scientific Creationism," making a half hearted attempt to edit out explicit Biblical references... but that fooled no one. When that met an equally unambiguous decision in the courts, the new version became "Intelligent Design." In the process, the creationist movement has become progressively less candid, more angry, more extremist and frankly more pathetic.

Atheists want to believe what they want to believe and are usually wrong. What I said was a course for creation science vs evolution, not religious beliefs. God created the universe, Earth, and everything in it (including natural selection) and science backs up the Bible.

 

[alang1216]

The olive tree grew rapidly after the waters subsided. Look up olive trees and ancient olives trees in Israel.

You should try it, I did and I learned:

An olive seed takes approximately 40 days or longer to germinate, so keep the area watered and weeded while you wait. Whether seeds are in pots or in the ground, water them when the top 1 inch of soil dries out, applying enough water to moisten the seed.​

Seems like a miracle that the first seed sprouted in less than 7 days.

Lol about NO evidence for a global flood. Just the geography in the US shows different and we find fossils on mountain tops. Why do you think we do mining on moutain tops, too?

Weren't you the one who claimed the mountains were raised by the Flood? Anyway, finding a seashell on a mountain top doesn't mean a global flood. The whole Flood episode only lasted a few months at most, hardly enough time for an animal to grow, die, get buried, and then fossilize.

Flood killed bacteria as they breathe air.

Some do some don't.

 

[Hollie]

Atheists want to believe what they want to believe and are usually wrong. What I said was a course for creation science vs evolution, not religious beliefs. God created the universe, Earth, and everything in it (including natural selection) and science backs up the Bible.

You are simply hoping to convince the gullible that so-called "creation science" is anything more than Christian fundamentalism under a burqa of lies and deceit. The fundamentalist christian ministries have spent decades renaming their dogma in an effort to add scientific credibility to religious tales and fables. It was a failure then and it's a failure now. It's terrible that people like you use fear and intimidation in your madrassah to emotionally and intellectually damage children. You cannot, however, do that to children in public schools.

 

[rupol2000]

Creation science is backed by the scientific method

No, storytellers do not use the scientific method. In the strict sense, science itself does not use it now (see positivism)

 

[Wuwei]

Weren't you the one who claimed the mountains were raised by the Flood? Anyway, finding a seashell on a mountain top doesn't mean a global flood. The whole Flood episode only lasted a few months at most, hardly enough time for an animal to grow, die, get buried, and then fossilize.

He did claim that mountains were raised by the flood, but he made that up. The Genesis refers to the flood waters being a number of cubits above the mountain tops. The tallest mountain is over 4 miles high. That can only mean the sea creatures were pushed up by tectonic activity before any of the many historical floods.

Some creationists say the shells were deposited on the mountain tops because of the flood. Four miles high from a rain? I don't think so.

That whole thing is full of scientific contradictions. Science does not support the Bible.

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[james bond]

You should try it, I did and I learned:
An olive seed takes approximately 40 days or longer to germinate, so keep the area watered and weeded while you wait. Whether seeds are in pots or in the ground, water them when the top 1 inch of soil dries out, applying enough water to moisten the seed.Seems like a miracle that the first seed sprouted in less than 7 days.

>>Seems like a miracle that the first seed sprouted in less than 7 days.<<

I don't disagree with reading. It's no miracle, but possibly help God gave Noah or Noah knew about birds and their behavior.

We discussed the raven and the dove. Noah's Ark landed on Mt. Ararat. At the end of forty days when its mountain top was visible, what bird did Noah release first and what happened? Next, he released the dove and what happened? This is when the 7 days you mentioned comes in after which he releases the dove again and it finds the olive leaf.

That's enough time for the olive tree to grow and sprout its first leaves as you stated.

 

[Wuwei]

I don't disagree with reading. It's no miracle, but possibly help God gave Noah or Noah knew about birds and their behavior.

Intervention from God is not science.

 

[alang1216]

>>Seems like a miracle that the first seed sprouted in less than 7 days.<<

I don't disagree with reading. It's no miracle, but possibly help God gave Noah or Noah knew about birds and their behavior.

No miracle, just supernatural intervention. Got it.

We discussed the raven and the dove. Noah's Ark landed on Mt. Ararat. At the end of forty days when its mountain top was visible, what bird did Noah release first and what happened? Next, he released the dove and what happened? This is when the 7 days you mentioned comes in after which he releases the dove again and it finds the olive leaf.

That's enough time for the olive tree to grow and sprout its first leaves as you stated.

So you think 7 days is enough to grow and sprout leaves? What is that based on, science or working backwards from the story?

 

[alang1216]

He did claim that mountains were raised by the flood, but he made that up. The Genesis refers to the flood waters being a number of cubits above the mountain tops. The tallest mountain is over 4 miles high. That can only mean the sea creatures were pushed up by tectonic activity before any of the many historical floods.

Some creationists say the shells were deposited on the mountain tops because of the flood. Four miles high from a rain? I don't think so.

That whole thing is full of scientific contradictions. Science does not support the Bible..

james bond is fun to talk to since I don't encounter many Bible literalists in real life. I love how he tries to justify the flood story without knowing any geology or physics. What I don't understand about such people is why does it matter to them if the Bible is 100% true or 50% true and 50% allegory or whatever? Is their faith so flimsy that it is all or nothing to them?

 

[Wuwei]

@james bond is fun to talk to since I don't encounter many Bible literalists in real life. I love how he tries to justify the flood story without knowing any geology or physics. What I don't understand about such people is why does it matter to them if the Bible is 100% true or 50% true and 50% allegory or whatever? Is their faith so flimsy that it is all or nothing to them?

Yes he's fun, but with all creation-scientists it's like playing whack-a-mole. It's impossible to change his mind, so it's fun to catch him in self-contradictions. I kept doing that so now he has me on ignore.

I think the reason is that they want to teach creationism in science classes to counter evolution in schools. It used to be called "intelligent design" but the courts saw through that because there was no doubt that God was presumably the designer. They don't want it to be an allegory because it then wouldn't be science. So they upgraded the title of their quest to include "science" in it.

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[Hollie]

I've already posted the youtube of what science backed up and we discussed fountains of the deep. How would the ancient Bible know hydrothermal vents?

You can believe whatever atheist stuff you want. I'm not trying to change you, but correct you as atheists are usually wrong.

Oh. Well.

If you dun’ seen it on the YouTube, it must be true.