Simple Question: Did we (USA) win Iraq War?

[The Rabbi]

You still haven't explained how our actions in Somalia and Serbia qualify as nation building. Are you really trying to hide the current nation building in iraq and afghanistan behind those events?

No, I'm trying to point out the continued hypocrisy of the Left, which was fine with nation building under Clinton but now somehow complain that under Bush it was wrong.
But finding hypocrisy among the leftists is like shooting fish in a barrel.

Rabbi, what about Granada and Panama?
[I'm much too polite to ever suggest you're a hypocrite ]

What about them?
I never suggested that creating stable regimes was not an appropriate exercise of power. That little thought comes from the Left, which suddenly wants to see that in Iraq.

 

[The Rabbi]

That's the biggest dodge I've seen outside of a GM dealership. By that measure we didnt know whether we had won WW2 until 1955 or so.

I think the recent terrorist attack in Iraq shows that it's still work in progress.

The problem is that "winning" the war in this case is much more than the todo list that was posted -- or at least the last item on that list isn't done yet ("Rebuild infrastructure")
Plus I think you need to have "11. Stable government, stable society" -- and that is clearly still work in progress.

There have been terrorist attacks in Spain and France too. I guess those are also "works in progress" by your reasoning.

 

[CurveLight]

No, I'm trying to point out the continued hypocrisy of the Left, which was fine with nation building under Clinton but now somehow complain that under Bush it was wrong.
But finding hypocrisy among the leftists is like shooting fish in a barrel.

Rabbi, what about Granada and Panama?
[I'm much too polite to ever suggest you're a hypocrite ]

What about them?
I never suggested that creating stable regimes was not an appropriate exercise of power. That little thought comes from the Left, which suddenly wants to see that in Iraq.

.

Being against nation building has always been a Conservative position.

 

[CurveLight]

That's the biggest dodge I've seen outside of a GM dealership. By that measure we didnt know whether we had won WW2 until 1955 or so.

I think the recent terrorist attack in Iraq shows that it's still work in progress.

The problem is that "winning" the war in this case is much more than the todo list that was posted -- or at least the last item on that list isn't done yet ("Rebuild infrastructure")
Plus I think you need to have "11. Stable government, stable society" -- and that is clearly still work in progress.

There have been terrorist attacks in Spain and France too. I guess those are also "works in progress" by your reasoning.

This is the kind of intellectual dishonesty that drowns dialogue.

 

[The Rabbi]

Rabbi, what about Granada and Panama?
[I'm much too polite to ever suggest you're a hypocrite ]

What about them?
I never suggested that creating stable regimes was not an appropriate exercise of power. That little thought comes from the Left, which suddenly wants to see that in Iraq.

.

Being against nation building has always been a Conservative position.

Really? I guess Reagan wasn't a conservative then.

 

[The Rabbi]

I think the recent terrorist attack in Iraq shows that it's still work in progress.

The problem is that "winning" the war in this case is much more than the todo list that was posted -- or at least the last item on that list isn't done yet ("Rebuild infrastructure")
Plus I think you need to have "11. Stable government, stable society" -- and that is clearly still work in progress.

There have been terrorist attacks in Spain and France too. I guess those are also "works in progress" by your reasoning.

This is the kind of intellectual dishonesty that drowns dialogue.

No, the intellectual dishonesty is from the Left, which refuses to admit the obvious. Instead of admitting that yes, we won the war in Iraq by any measure, they insist either: The war wasn't worth it (a totally different question) or It's too early to tell (which it isnt).

It is funny: The Left cannot admit they were wrong. Cannot admit they were wrong on the surge. Cannot admit we won the war. Cannot admit they have been wrong on every foreign policy question over the last 40 years.

 

[HUGGY]

There have been terrorist attacks in Spain and France too. I guess those are also "works in progress" by your reasoning.

This is the kind of intellectual dishonesty that drowns dialogue.

No, the intellectual dishonesty is from the Left, which refuses to admit the obvious. Instead of admitting that yes, we won the war in Iraq by any measure, they insist either: The war wasn't worth it (a totally different question) or It's too early to tell (which it isnt).

It is funny: The Left cannot admit they were wrong. Cannot admit they were wrong on the surge. Cannot admit we won the war. Cannot admit they have been wrong on every foreign policy question over the last 40 years.

Only a rabid moron would try to make this about left or right or east and west, up and down. Fuck you.. you war mongering asshole jew. By any rational standard what we did to Iraq was a fucking war crime. Piss on you and those in israel that promoted this fucking abomination.

 

[Wry Catcher]

There have been terrorist attacks in Spain and France too. I guess those are also "works in progress" by your reasoning.

This is the kind of intellectual dishonesty that drowns dialogue.

No, the intellectual dishonesty is from the Left, which refuses to admit the obvious. Instead of admitting that yes, we won the war in Iraq by any measure, they insist either: The war wasn't worth it (a totally different question) or It's too early to tell (which it isnt).

It is funny: The Left cannot admit they were wrong. Cannot admit they were wrong on the surge. Cannot admit we won the war. Cannot admit they have been wrong on every foreign policy question over the last 40 years.

I'm not the left, but if I were, why would I admit we won a war when we still have 140,000troops on the ground, are still taking casualties and spending $$$ we don't have? Why would anyone, right or left, admit we won a war when there was nothing to win, and lives and treasure to loose.
Or, was killing Saddam worth killing thousand of civilians, nearly 5,000 Americans and suffering thousands of casualties? You righties are damn stupid.

 

[Varth Dader]

This is the kind of intellectual dishonesty that drowns dialogue.

No, the intellectual dishonesty is from the Left, which refuses to admit the obvious. Instead of admitting that yes, we won the war in Iraq by any measure, they insist either: The war wasn't worth it (a totally different question) or It's too early to tell (which it isnt).

It is funny: The Left cannot admit they were wrong. Cannot admit they were wrong on the surge. Cannot admit we won the war. Cannot admit they have been wrong on every foreign policy question over the last 40 years.

Only a rabid moron would try to make this about left or right or east and west, up and down. Fuck you.. you war mongering asshole jew. By any rational standard what we did to Iraq was a fucking war crime. Piss on you and those in israel that promoted this fucking abomination.

How does one's religion (jew) enter your argument?

He might be a war mongerer, but I don't see how you injecting religion in this debate does anything but paint you as a racist.

 

[The Rabbi]

No, the intellectual dishonesty is from the Left, which refuses to admit the obvious. Instead of admitting that yes, we won the war in Iraq by any measure, they insist either: The war wasn't worth it (a totally different question) or It's too early to tell (which it isnt).

It is funny: The Left cannot admit they were wrong. Cannot admit they were wrong on the surge. Cannot admit we won the war. Cannot admit they have been wrong on every foreign policy question over the last 40 years.

Only a rabid moron would try to make this about left or right or east and west, up and down. Fuck you.. you war mongering asshole jew. By any rational standard what we did to Iraq was a fucking war crime. Piss on you and those in israel that promoted this fucking abomination.

How does one's religion (jew) enter your argument?

He might be a war mongerer, but I don't see how you injecting religion in this debate does anything but paint you as a racist.

Ithink technically that would make him a bigot, not a racist.
But anyway you slice it, his posts make him a moron of the first order.

 

[The Rabbi]

This is the kind of intellectual dishonesty that drowns dialogue.

No, the intellectual dishonesty is from the Left, which refuses to admit the obvious. Instead of admitting that yes, we won the war in Iraq by any measure, they insist either: The war wasn't worth it (a totally different question) or It's too early to tell (which it isnt).

It is funny: The Left cannot admit they were wrong. Cannot admit they were wrong on the surge. Cannot admit we won the war. Cannot admit they have been wrong on every foreign policy question over the last 40 years.

I'm not the left, but if I were, why would I admit we won a war when we still have 140,000troops on the ground, are still taking casualties and spending $$$ we don't have? Why would anyone, right or left, admit we won a war when there was nothing to win, and lives and treasure to loose.
Or, was killing Saddam worth killing thousand of civilians, nearly 5,000 Americans and suffering thousands of casualties? You righties are damn stupid.

We still have troops in Germany, Japan, and Korea too. They are still taking casualties and we are spending money to maintain them.
But nice to see BOTH of my Left-dodges incorporated into your one post.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

This is the kind of intellectual dishonesty that drowns dialogue.

No, the intellectual dishonesty is from the Left, which refuses to admit the obvious. Instead of admitting that yes, we won the war in Iraq by any measure, they insist either: The war wasn't worth it (a totally different question) or It's too early to tell (which it isnt).

It is funny: The Left cannot admit they were wrong. Cannot admit they were wrong on the surge. Cannot admit we won the war. Cannot admit they have been wrong on every foreign policy question over the last 40 years.

Only a rabid moron would try to make this about left or right or east and west, up and down. Fuck you.. you war mongering asshole jew. By any rational standard what we did to Iraq was a fucking war crime. Piss on you and those in israel that promoted this fucking abomination.

Oh Look, RETARD ALERT< RETARD ALERT

 

[CurveLight]

What about them?
I never suggested that creating stable regimes was not an appropriate exercise of power. That little thought comes from the Left, which suddenly wants to see that in Iraq.

.

Being against nation building has always been a Conservative position.

Really? I guess Reagan wasn't a conservative then.

Doesn't matter if anyone thinks he was a conservative or liberal.....that would not change the fact nation building is liberalism. There is absolutely nothing Conservative about shedding our blood and money to build a different nation.

 

[CurveLight]

There have been terrorist attacks in Spain and France too. I guess those are also "works in progress" by your reasoning.

This is the kind of intellectual dishonesty that drowns dialogue.

No, the intellectual dishonesty is from the Left, which refuses to admit the obvious. Instead of admitting that yes, we won the war in Iraq by any measure, they insist either: The war wasn't worth it (a totally different question) or It's too early to tell (which it isnt).

It is funny: The Left cannot admit they were wrong. Cannot admit they were wrong on the surge. Cannot admit we won the war. Cannot admit they have been wrong on every foreign policy question over the last 40 years.

It is absolutely ludicrous to try and compare france and spain to our occupation in iraq and you damn well know it. There never was victory nor defeat to be found in iraq. Claiming victory is a last ditch effort to try and justify the War. It's also silly to claim those against the war are only found on the "Left." I believe that is known too but the hunger for trying to spread hate is much greater than even a whisper of honesty. You cannot even give an honest definition of victory and anything claimed to be evidence of such a farce would be unbelievably vague. Even if this forum were reduced to a single thread with the topic limited to pocket lint you'd desperately try to find a way to blame the left. "Look! There is no lint in my right pocket! It's all on the Left."

 

[foggedinn]

.

Being against nation building has always been a Conservative position.

Really? I guess Reagan wasn't a conservative then.

Doesn't matter if anyone thinks he was a conservative or liberal.....that would not change the fact nation building is liberalism. There is absolutely nothing Conservative about shedding our blood and money to build a different nation.

Hail to Dick Cheney, the great icon of liberalism.

 

[The Rabbi]

This is the kind of intellectual dishonesty that drowns dialogue.

No, the intellectual dishonesty is from the Left, which refuses to admit the obvious. Instead of admitting that yes, we won the war in Iraq by any measure, they insist either: The war wasn't worth it (a totally different question) or It's too early to tell (which it isnt).

It is funny: The Left cannot admit they were wrong. Cannot admit they were wrong on the surge. Cannot admit we won the war. Cannot admit they have been wrong on every foreign policy question over the last 40 years.

It is absolutely ludicrous to try and compare france and spain to our occupation in iraq and you damn well know it. There never was victory nor defeat to be found in iraq. Claiming victory is a last ditch effort to try and justify the War. It's also silly to claim those against the war are only found on the "Left." I believe that is known too but the hunger for trying to spread hate is much greater than even a whisper of honesty. You cannot even give an honest definition of victory and anything claimed to be evidence of such a farce would be unbelievably vague. Even if this forum were reduced to a single thread with the topic limited to pocket lint you'd desperately try to find a way to blame the left. "Look! There is no lint in my right pocket! It's all on the Left."

There was a definition of victory given in this very thread. All those goals and objectives were met.
What is ludicrous is the Left trying still to snatch defeat out of the jaws of victory. They tried so hard during the war itself that I guess it is now habit.
You can argue all day long whether it was worth it or not. You can argue the same about WW1 and WW2. But it doesn't change teh facts on the ground.

 

[Varth Dader]

That's the biggest dodge I've seen outside of a GM dealership. By that measure we didnt know whether we had won WW2 until 1955 or so.

I think the recent terrorist attack in Iraq shows that it's still work in progress.

The problem is that "winning" the war in this case is much more than the todo list that was posted -- or at least the last item on that list isn't done yet ("Rebuild infrastructure")
Plus I think you need to have "11. Stable government, stable society" -- and that is clearly still work in progress.

There have been terrorist attacks in Spain and France too. I guess those are also "works in progress" by your reasoning.

It always is, but trying to compare the stability of France or Spain with the stability of Iraq is puzzling.

But yet, if tomorrow, there are waves and waves of terrorist strikes by the ETA in Spain, I think you should seriously start questioning the stability of a country like Spain.

 

[CurveLight]

No, the intellectual dishonesty is from the Left, which refuses to admit the obvious. Instead of admitting that yes, we won the war in Iraq by any measure, they insist either: The war wasn't worth it (a totally different question) or It's too early to tell (which it isnt).

It is funny: The Left cannot admit they were wrong. Cannot admit they were wrong on the surge. Cannot admit we won the war. Cannot admit they have been wrong on every foreign policy question over the last 40 years.

It is absolutely ludicrous to try and compare france and spain to our occupation in iraq and you damn well know it. There never was victory nor defeat to be found in iraq. Claiming victory is a last ditch effort to try and justify the War. It's also silly to claim those against the war are only found on the "Left." I believe that is known too but the hunger for trying to spread hate is much greater than even a whisper of honesty. You cannot even give an honest definition of victory and anything claimed to be evidence of such a farce would be unbelievably vague. Even if this forum were reduced to a single thread with the topic limited to pocket lint you'd desperately try to find a way to blame the left. "Look! There is no lint in my right pocket! It's all on the Left."

There was a definition of victory given in this very thread. All those goals and objectives were met.
What is ludicrous is the Left trying still to snatch defeat out of the jaws of victory. They tried so hard during the war itself that I guess it is now habit.
You can argue all day long whether it was worth it or not. You can argue the same about WW1 and WW2. But it doesn't change teh facts on the ground.

Where is the definition of victory? I'm curious to see how "installing an islamic theocracy" fits in that definition. Is it already time to say "It's been posted so go find it yourself." Can you give a definition in your own words?

 

[CurveLight]

Really? I guess Reagan wasn't a conservative then.

Doesn't matter if anyone thinks he was a conservative or liberal.....that would not change the fact nation building is liberalism. There is absolutely nothing Conservative about shedding our blood and money to build a different nation.

Hail to Dick Cheney, the great icon of liberalism.

Just like Reagan, it doesn't matter if one views Cheney as Lib or Con. Nation building is liberalism.

 

[The Rabbi]

It is absolutely ludicrous to try and compare france and spain to our occupation in iraq and you damn well know it. There never was victory nor defeat to be found in iraq. Claiming victory is a last ditch effort to try and justify the War. It's also silly to claim those against the war are only found on the "Left." I believe that is known too but the hunger for trying to spread hate is much greater than even a whisper of honesty. You cannot even give an honest definition of victory and anything claimed to be evidence of such a farce would be unbelievably vague. Even if this forum were reduced to a single thread with the topic limited to pocket lint you'd desperately try to find a way to blame the left. "Look! There is no lint in my right pocket! It's all on the Left."

There was a definition of victory given in this very thread. All those goals and objectives were met.
What is ludicrous is the Left trying still to snatch defeat out of the jaws of victory. They tried so hard during the war itself that I guess it is now habit.
You can argue all day long whether it was worth it or not. You can argue the same about WW1 and WW2. But it doesn't change teh facts on the ground.

Where is the definition of victory? I'm curious to see how "installing an islamic theocracy" fits in that definition. Is it already time to say "It's been posted so go find it yourself." Can you give a definition in your own words?

It was in the first post made here.
Is Iraq an "Islamic theocracy"?? By that measure Italy is a Catholic theocracy.