Slavery reparations?

[rightwinger]

My only issue with reparations is......What standing do you have?

If blacks today are paid money for the treatment of blacks 150 years ago
Why shouldn't blacks 50 years from now be paid money for treatment of blacks 200 years ago

 

[Asclepias]

If reparations happened, it would be by force. The government would tax whoever they decided must pay said reparations and, though the force isn't up front and apparent when you file, you -are- punished by said government if you decide you don't want to pay what they've decided you owe.

And precedence? Okay, so rather than addressing my argument you're gonna ignore it and go pseudo-legalistic. I'll go that route with you.

The Japanese were compensated while the victims were still alive. Given that there are no direct victims of said kidnapping or slavery still alive to claim standing, and given the sort of confusion that would be caused by trying to set a fair price generations down the road from the crime, as well as trying to determine who should be responsible for paying, not to mention who should benefit and to what degree, this factor alone constitutes a great enough deviation from the compensation of the Japanese to qualify this particular case for its own separate consideration.

Not all the Japanese victims were alive. Their heirs got the compensation. I already said that it should be based on the fair market value of the land at that time based on the 40 acres and a mule promise plus accumulated interest. The government can print money the same way they do when they pay for wars. The tax payers will pay into it but they did the same thing for the Japanese.

Not all the victims were alive, but the fact that you'd specify that leads me to believe that you're missing the point, there. All the people receiving compensation were alive during the perpetration of the crime and affected directly.

Also, to specify, I only entertain this Japanese argument to play devil's advocate. I don't support -any- government funded reparations. At some point, you're taking money from the tax payers (or taking their buying power via currency printing) to right wrongs for which many of them aren't responsible. I never, ever support making someone pay for crimes in which they had no part. Never. Ever.

Also, the government offered 40 acres and a mule to each freed slave, so I'm assuming that you're still suggesting we work with the original number of 40 acre plots and mules that would've been? Like, if 1 slave accounts completely for 40 descendants, then they each get an acre and a couple cuts of mule steak?

Interest? At what rate? Why that rate?

Thats called moving the goal posts. If the payout had been done when it was first proposed then there would be no need. The fact it was never paid out is not the fault of Black people. That income derived from the land would have put Black people on the fast track to success. That opportunity was not realized when the land was not dispersed. You have no argument. If you are just saying you dont want to rectify the issue , I dont need to hear made up reasons because its BS.

You do support paid out reparations because you pay taxes. The Japanese reparations ultimately were paid by tax payers. Your assumption is correct. Based on the original allotment of land. Interest rate needs to account for inflation and late penalties. 35% compounded semi-annually would suffice.

 

[Meathead]

My only issue with reparations is......What standing do you have?

If blacks today are paid money for the treatment of blacks 150 years ago
Why shouldn't blacks 50 years from now be paid money for treatment of blacks 200 years ago

If that's your only issue, then you are a bit more of an idiot than you had seemed.

 

[koshergrl]

My only issue with reparations is......What standing do you have?

If blacks today are paid money for the treatment of blacks 150 years ago
Why shouldn't blacks 50 years from now be paid money for treatment of blacks 200 years ago

If that's your only issue, then you are a bit more of an idiot than you had seemed.

Is that possible?

 

[Not2BSubjugated]

Not all the Japanese victims were alive. Their heirs got the compensation. I already said that it should be based on the fair market value of the land at that time based on the 40 acres and a mule promise plus accumulated interest. The government can print money the same way they do when they pay for wars. The tax payers will pay into it but they did the same thing for the Japanese.

Not all the victims were alive, but the fact that you'd specify that leads me to believe that you're missing the point, there. All the people receiving compensation were alive during the perpetration of the crime and affected directly.

Also, to specify, I only entertain this Japanese argument to play devil's advocate. I don't support -any- government funded reparations. At some point, you're taking money from the tax payers (or taking their buying power via currency printing) to right wrongs for which many of them aren't responsible. I never, ever support making someone pay for crimes in which they had no part. Never. Ever.

Also, the government offered 40 acres and a mule to each freed slave, so I'm assuming that you're still suggesting we work with the original number of 40 acre plots and mules that would've been? Like, if 1 slave accounts completely for 40 descendants, then they each get an acre and a couple cuts of mule steak?

Interest? At what rate? Why that rate?

Thats called moving the goal posts. If the payout had been done when it was first proposed then there would be no need. The fact it was never paid out is not the fault of Black people. That income derived from the land would have put Black people on the fast track to success. That opportunity was not realized when the land was not dispersed. You have no argument. If you are just saying you dont want to rectify the issue , I dont need to hear made up reasons because its BS.

Hate to break this to you, but the freed slaves wouldn't necessarily have been on the fast track to success if they'd been given land. History is littered with examples of people who came into great fortunes and made nothing, simply lost those fortunes over time. The freed slaves were not only forceably uneducated in business matters outside of actually tending and harvesting crops, but they were still living in communities who, at the time, would have been less-than-welcoming to the new black farmers looking to do some professional networking. No, chances are more likely that the combination of forced ignorance and lack of community acceptance would've stunted the -shit- out of that "fast track" you imagine.

I'll give you this, though. . . there should've been reparations made at the time and there were not. That did, indeed, move the goal posts, and it wasn't the fault of black people.

You know who else's fault it wasn't? Today's taxpayers. Me. And you're absolutely right, I don't want to try and rectify it at this point because I feel that rectifying it is impossible without wronging someone else who had nothing to do with it. That's not a made up reason, I'm sorry to say, and not wanting to be on the hook to right the wrongs of people I never met isn't BS.

 

[Truthmatters]

My only issue with reparations is......What standing do you have?

If blacks today are paid money for the treatment of blacks 150 years ago
Why shouldn't blacks 50 years from now be paid money for treatment of blacks 200 years ago

well perhaps you missed the suggestion about giving the spoils of slavery to the surviving family members of people who can prove slave relatives.

we didn't let the Nazis kids keep the spoils did we?

 

[Asclepias]

Not all the victims were alive, but the fact that you'd specify that leads me to believe that you're missing the point, there. All the people receiving compensation were alive during the perpetration of the crime and affected directly.

Also, to specify, I only entertain this Japanese argument to play devil's advocate. I don't support -any- government funded reparations. At some point, you're taking money from the tax payers (or taking their buying power via currency printing) to right wrongs for which many of them aren't responsible. I never, ever support making someone pay for crimes in which they had no part. Never. Ever.

Also, the government offered 40 acres and a mule to each freed slave, so I'm assuming that you're still suggesting we work with the original number of 40 acre plots and mules that would've been? Like, if 1 slave accounts completely for 40 descendants, then they each get an acre and a couple cuts of mule steak?

Interest? At what rate? Why that rate?

Thats called moving the goal posts. If the payout had been done when it was first proposed then there would be no need. The fact it was never paid out is not the fault of Black people. That income derived from the land would have put Black people on the fast track to success. That opportunity was not realized when the land was not dispersed. You have no argument. If you are just saying you dont want to rectify the issue , I dont need to hear made up reasons because its BS.

Hate to break this to you, but the freed slaves wouldn't necessarily have been on the fast track to success if they'd been given land. History is littered with examples of people who came into great fortunes and made nothing, simply lost those fortunes over time. The freed slaves were not only forceably uneducated in business matters outside of actually tending and harvesting crops, but they were still living in communities who, at the time, would have been less-than-welcoming to the new black farmers looking to do some professional networking. No, chances are more likely that the combination of forced ignorance and lack of community acceptance would've stunted the -shit- out of that "fast track" you imagine.

I'll give you this, though. . . there should've been reparations made at the time and there were not. That did, indeed, move the goal posts, and it wasn't the fault of black people.

You know who else's fault it wasn't? Today's taxpayers. Me. And you're absolutely right, I don't want to try and rectify it at this point because I feel that rectifying it is impossible without wronging someone else who had nothing to do with it. That's not a made up reason, I'm sorry to say, and not wanting to be on the hook to right the wrongs of people I never met isn't BS.

Hate to break it to you but your conjecture is not relevant. You owed is the point, not what you think the recipient would have done with it. If an NBA player was wrongfully killed they would take his potential income earning ability, not the fact that he could have blown out his knee the next day in practice.

Thanks for being honest.

 

[Truthmatters]

Not all the victims were alive, but the fact that you'd specify that leads me to believe that you're missing the point, there. All the people receiving compensation were alive during the perpetration of the crime and affected directly.

Also, to specify, I only entertain this Japanese argument to play devil's advocate. I don't support -any- government funded reparations. At some point, you're taking money from the tax payers (or taking their buying power via currency printing) to right wrongs for which many of them aren't responsible. I never, ever support making someone pay for crimes in which they had no part. Never. Ever.

Also, the government offered 40 acres and a mule to each freed slave, so I'm assuming that you're still suggesting we work with the original number of 40 acre plots and mules that would've been? Like, if 1 slave accounts completely for 40 descendants, then they each get an acre and a couple cuts of mule steak?

Interest? At what rate? Why that rate?

Thats called moving the goal posts. If the payout had been done when it was first proposed then there would be no need. The fact it was never paid out is not the fault of Black people. That income derived from the land would have put Black people on the fast track to success. That opportunity was not realized when the land was not dispersed. You have no argument. If you are just saying you dont want to rectify the issue , I dont need to hear made up reasons because its BS.

Hate to break this to you, but the freed slaves wouldn't necessarily have been on the fast track to success if they'd been given land. History is littered with examples of people who came into great fortunes and made nothing, simply lost those fortunes over time. The freed slaves were not only forceably uneducated in business matters outside of actually tending and harvesting crops, but they were still living in communities who, at the time, would have been less-than-welcoming to the new black farmers looking to do some professional networking. No, chances are more likely that the combination of forced ignorance and lack of community acceptance would've stunted the -shit- out of that "fast track" you imagine.

I'll give you this, though. . . there should've been reparations made at the time and there were not. That did, indeed, move the goal posts, and it wasn't the fault of black people.

You know who else's fault it wasn't? Today's taxpayers. Me. And you're absolutely right, I don't want to try and rectify it at this point because I feel that rectifying it is impossible without wronging someone else who had nothing to do with it. That's not a made up reason, I'm sorry to say, and not wanting to be on the hook to right the wrongs of people I never met isn't BS.

IT DOESNT HAVE TO BE TAX MONEY



why cant you people remember that?

 

[Toro]

You have no claim. You have no right to come to another persons home and declare it to be yours no matter how many papal bulls are issued declaring you have the authority.

You stole my ancestors land!

Pay me.

Your ancestors land is in Europe not the Americas.

Horsehockey!

Pay me, bitches!

And don't leave out any of those zeroes on my big fat cheque you owe me!

 

[Toro]

Thats called moving the goal posts. If the payout had been done when it was first proposed then there would be no need. The fact it was never paid out is not the fault of Black people. That income derived from the land would have put Black people on the fast track to success. That opportunity was not realized when the land was not dispersed. You have no argument. If you are just saying you dont want to rectify the issue , I dont need to hear made up reasons because its BS.

Hate to break this to you, but the freed slaves wouldn't necessarily have been on the fast track to success if they'd been given land. History is littered with examples of people who came into great fortunes and made nothing, simply lost those fortunes over time. The freed slaves were not only forceably uneducated in business matters outside of actually tending and harvesting crops, but they were still living in communities who, at the time, would have been less-than-welcoming to the new black farmers looking to do some professional networking. No, chances are more likely that the combination of forced ignorance and lack of community acceptance would've stunted the -shit- out of that "fast track" you imagine.

I'll give you this, though. . . there should've been reparations made at the time and there were not. That did, indeed, move the goal posts, and it wasn't the fault of black people.

You know who else's fault it wasn't? Today's taxpayers. Me. And you're absolutely right, I don't want to try and rectify it at this point because I feel that rectifying it is impossible without wronging someone else who had nothing to do with it. That's not a made up reason, I'm sorry to say, and not wanting to be on the hook to right the wrongs of people I never met isn't BS.

IT DOESNT HAVE TO BE TAX MONEY



why cant you people remember that?

I know.

We will take Oregon, Washington and Idaho, plus parts of Florida, the English speaking parts, because Canadians need a warm place to go in the winter

 

[OldUSAFSniper]

here is the truth you righties dont seem to get.

If we did this people wold check their families for slave connections.

many many people would then realize they have black blood even if they didn't know it.


you would be giving this money to many many people of all colors.


it would be an amazing thing to see white racists hunting down their slave history to gain from it.

heaven

Another incredibly INSANE idea from a liberal who thinks that compassion equates to giving people something and that since it is obviously born from compassion, any stance against it can only be based in evil.

I have some news for you. IF I have African-American ancestors, I really don't give a crap because I am an American. Some of my little great nieces and nephews DO have African-American blood in them because I have several nieces who have married African-American men. Good men, one of which is going for 20 in the Marines. We have had this discussion and I will tell you EXACTLY what I told them.

Slavery was a horrible, horrible thing. It ended officially in the US in 1863. Any person who was a slave has long since passed. They deserve our respect. But NO ONE deserves a dime from the government because no one alive today was a slave. They concur and feel as I do that it is a stupid and condescending attempt to obtain their vote.

I can see that your time away has neither taught you anything nor have you done anything to obtain any education concerning the real world. Your card-carrying status as a political hack is still valid.

your just a fucking idiot with NO morals


TO THIS DAY


when we find Nazi booty stolen in WWII its returned to the familys who originally owned it and The kids of the Nazis who stole It in the first place get nothing.



why because its black people do you want the kids of the thieves to get the stolen goods?

Back in all your glory, huh? Still no ability to debate, so you resort to name calling. There are liberals on this forum that I have befriended because they have an obvious "integrity of thought." I listen to their positions. You have neither: integrity or thought. Pure emotional shrieking.

 

[Immanuel]

Hate to break this to you, but the freed slaves wouldn't necessarily have been on the fast track to success if they'd been given land. History is littered with examples of people who came into great fortunes and made nothing, simply lost those fortunes over time. The freed slaves were not only forceably uneducated in business matters outside of actually tending and harvesting crops, but they were still living in communities who, at the time, would have been less-than-welcoming to the new black farmers looking to do some professional networking. No, chances are more likely that the combination of forced ignorance and lack of community acceptance would've stunted the -shit- out of that "fast track" you imagine.

I'll give you this, though. . . there should've been reparations made at the time and there were not. That did, indeed, move the goal posts, and it wasn't the fault of black people.

You know who else's fault it wasn't? Today's taxpayers. Me. And you're absolutely right, I don't want to try and rectify it at this point because I feel that rectifying it is impossible without wronging someone else who had nothing to do with it. That's not a made up reason, I'm sorry to say, and not wanting to be on the hook to right the wrongs of people I never met isn't BS.

IT DOESNT HAVE TO BE TAX MONEY



why cant you people remember that?

I know.

We will take Oregon, Washington and Idaho, plus parts of Florida, the English speaking parts, because Canadians need a warm place to go in the winter

Sorry, but if you get anything, you have to include the area she lives in. After all, she's the one that thinks it is deserved. She is either in Vegas or SoCal. She expects to profit from this, but if any of us have to pay, she will have to pay as well.

Immie

 

[jwoodie]

How about 400 years of free psychotherapy?

 

[boedicca]

I'm going to get my Irish and English DNA to sue my Norwegian-Viking DNA for REPARATIONS!!!!!

I could use a good shopping outing.

 

[boedicca]

Also, I'm thinking of suing Rome for the atrocities the Ancient Romans did to my English DNA.

 

[koshergrl]

Hey, I've got English dna too!
Awesome! Look out Rome..and by extension..Italy?

 

[koshergrl]

So who is going to reparate the descendants of Christian slaves, and the descendants of those slaughtered by Muslims?

And those enslaved by Muslims, too...

Hell, that's still going on. When are we going to get Muslims to hand over their slaves?

 

[Truthmatters]

Another incredibly INSANE idea from a liberal who thinks that compassion equates to giving people something and that since it is obviously born from compassion, any stance against it can only be based in evil.

I have some news for you. IF I have African-American ancestors, I really don't give a crap because I am an American. Some of my little great nieces and nephews DO have African-American blood in them because I have several nieces who have married African-American men. Good men, one of which is going for 20 in the Marines. We have had this discussion and I will tell you EXACTLY what I told them.

Slavery was a horrible, horrible thing. It ended officially in the US in 1863. Any person who was a slave has long since passed. They deserve our respect. But NO ONE deserves a dime from the government because no one alive today was a slave. They concur and feel as I do that it is a stupid and condescending attempt to obtain their vote.

I can see that your time away has neither taught you anything nor have you done anything to obtain any education concerning the real world. Your card-carrying status as a political hack is still valid.

your just a fucking idiot with NO morals


TO THIS DAY


when we find Nazi booty stolen in WWII its returned to the familys who originally owned it and The kids of the Nazis who stole It in the first place get nothing.



why because its black people do you want the kids of the thieves to get the stolen goods?

Back in all your glory, huh? Still no ability to debate, so you resort to name calling. There are liberals on this forum that I have befriended because they have an obvious "integrity of thought." I listen to their positions. You have neither: integrity or thought. Pure emotional shrieking.

Do we let the progeny of Nazis keep the things they plundered from the jews they persecuted?


NO


why is it OK to Not do this with the decendants of slavemasteres?

 

[Truthmatters]

why will none of you answer that directly?

 

[koshergrl]

Actually, the Swiss and the Dutch, great progressive heroes whose countries are eternally being brought up as some sort of gold progressive standard, still have much of what was plundered from the Jews.

"Beginning with a survey of international law and various definitions of 'looting', Professor Aalders show show the Germans systematically robbed Dutch Jewry through a variety of means that gave the outward appearance of 'honest trading'. Forced to sell under duress and at unreasonably low prices, few dared refuse the Germans on the doorstep when threatened with prison or incarceration in a camp."

"Looted works of art were forcibly deposited in the Lipmann Rosenthal Bank (LIRO) from where they were sold on the art market both in the Netherlands and Germany. Auction houses and dealers selling such works of art included Mak van Waay, Amsterdam, Van Marle & Bignell in The Hague, Lempertz, Cologne, Curt Reinheldt of Berlin and the Munich Galerie für alte Kunst. Dutch museums purchased looted works of art from LIRO, among them the Rijksmuseum, the Stedelijk, the Museum for Asian Art and The Hague Municipal Museum."

http://www.lootedart.com/MN6Y2X825501