Small Businesses in NYC Struggling with $15 Minimum Wage

[Andylusion]

How is that relevant?

You said that good paying jobs were being replaced by low paying jobs. Are you suggesting that all the people working at that walmart, were highly paid electrical engineers, and their employer eliminated all their jobs, and Walmart hired them all?

The good paying jobs are no longer there for the people who have to turn to Wal Mart. Does this really have to be spelled out in incredibly simple terms?

If what you said was true..... then we should be able to find highly skilled, highly educated walmart workers.

Those who walked in off the street just out of high school and landed the jobs I noted are gone were no more skilled than those working at Wal Mart today.

Jobs that require no more skill or hard work than walmart... would not be paying more than walmart.

There is no job, that is directly comparable to Walmart, that paid a middle class income. Sorry, you are insane if you think that.

Krogers used to be a job a person could make a nice living at.

Krogers? In the 1990s I worked at a job that was $5.25/hour as a Cashier at Big Bear, which was a direct competitor to Krogers. They didn't pay anymore than I earned at Big Bear.

Not sure how you define that as a nice living? Or are you going back in time? Because in the 1960s, they were paying less than $1.50, which was just barely over the minimum wage. (according to the university of Michigan survey of business)

So when was this time you could make a good living as an entry level Kroger employee?

 

[Andylusion]

Which company had high paying jobs, and moved to china?

And, and, and, and, and...............

Which high paying jobs, are now in China? You stated that as a fact, and I'm simply wanting those facts. I'd love to know.

I've stated my position. If you want to go back and reply to what I've said, great. I'm not playing the ignorant game. You are better at it.

You either back your position, or I'll take that as you admitting openly that you lost this argument, and have nothing more of any value to add to this discussion.

Funny how evidence is always required of other people when they make statements, but you get to play off like this is divine truth that everyone must take for granted.

No. I'm calling BS on you. Provide proof, or your lack of a valid response, is my proof that you just lost this discussion, and you are hereby dismissed from the class.

I already have.

No you have not. I have not seen the name of a specific company that has eliminated high paying jobs in the US, and opened in China.

 

[Theowl32]

Remember a few years ago when radical leftists in hollywood realized what their cries for minimum wage did to a classic old theatre?

No Pay for Some L.A. Stage Actors – Deadline

Then the radical leftist actors tried to sue so that the theatre would be exempt from needing to raise their minimum wage.

They lost the lawsuit. Then guess what happened.

Lol

 

[otto105]

Small Businesses Struggle With $15 Minimum Wage Hike in NY: 'They're Shutting Down'

EXCERPT: According to a report published Monday by the Wall Street Journal, many business leaders and owners in the Big Apple have said that they are having to cut hours, raise prices, and reduce staff in their businesses due to the rising labor costs that they say come from the recent city law bumping up the minimum wage. . . .

The president of the Queens Chamber of Commerce, Thomas Grech, told the Wall Street Journal that he has seen an increased number of small businesses closing in the last six to nine months. He believes the rising closures are due to the minimum wage legislation.

“They’re cutting their staff. They’re cutting their hours. They’re shutting down,” Grech said. “It’s not just the rent.”

It’s just conservative tripe until you post factual numbers.

 

[otto105]

Well that's shocking.

What’s stocking is your belief that it’s true.

 

[Lesh]

Small Businesses Struggle With $15 Minimum Wage Hike in NY: 'They're Shutting Down'

EXCERPT: According to a report published Monday by the Wall Street Journal, many business leaders and owners in the Big Apple have said that they are having to cut hours, raise prices, and reduce staff in their businesses due to the rising labor costs that they say come from the recent city law bumping up the minimum wage. . . .

The president of the Queens Chamber of Commerce, Thomas Grech, told the Wall Street Journal that he has seen an increased number of small businesses closing in the last six to nine months. He believes the rising closures are due to the minimum wage legislation.

“They’re cutting their staff. They’re cutting their hours. They’re shutting down,” Grech said. “It’s not just the rent.”

It’s just conservative tripe until you post factual numbers.

The only two actual businesses quoted in that article stated that they have laid off no one and have not cut the 40 hour weeks of the existing employees

 

[Dekster]

The article has nobody in it saying they have shut down due to the MW and small businesses in NYC have a lower MW than larger employers. There are businesses like Dunkin Doughnuts and cell phone companies that are expanding in NYC. It is a matter of what you provide. Restaurants have a short shelf-life in the Age of the Foodie so their numbers have been going down in NYC for years. Major retailers have been pulling out or downsizing to showroom only stores because sales have moved online.

Jesus dude...your own article refutes your bullshit.'

The only two businesses cited admit they have not even had to cut anyone and that all their employees are doing 40 hour weeks

Jesus what a lame thread

Ok, let's read it together......

Susannah Koteen, owner of Lido Restaurant in Harlem, said she worries about the impact raising wages could have on her restaurant, where she employs nearly 40 people. She hasn’t had to lay off anyone, but the increase has forced her to cut back on shifts and be more stringent about overtime. She said she changes her menu offerings seasonally and raises prices more often since the wage boost.

“What it really forces you to do is make sure that nobody works more than 40 hours,” Ms. Koteen said. “You can only cut back so many people before the service starts to suffer.”

Ms. Koteen said she shelved plans to move her restaurant to a larger location. That would require her to hire more staff, and she isn’t willing to take the risk with the unpredictability of her business. “You would just have no choice but to cut people at the bottom,” she said.

Thomas Grech, president of the Queens Chamber of Commerce, said he has seen an uptick in small-business closures during the past six to nine months, and he attributed it to the minimum-wage legislation.

“They’re cutting their staff. They’re cutting their hours. They’re shutting down,” he said. “It’s not just the rent.”​

So this mirrors my personal experience back in the 90s, when they raised the minimum wage. We had 3 part-time employees, and the first thing they did was lay off all 3 of them. When this business owner says she would have no choice but to cut people at the bottom, I wager that is what she means.

In order for the restaurant to continue operating without those 3 people, the rest of us were simply required to do more work.

Also I find it odd that you would even say "none of the businesses they talked to had to close"...if they were closed, how would they talk to them?

You think the reporters are going to show up at an empty strip mall, start hunting down all the former business owners, and track them down?

If only there was a group of people that monitored businesses in the area, that business owners could talk to, and give feed back on how their business was operating, and what problems businesses faced. You know like some sort of group of local business people, that could relay what is going on in the community in response to government policy....... Lets see, what could we do...

What if we created something called a "Chamber of Commerce".... we could even give it a local name like "Queens Chamber of Commerce" which would relay the problems happening in the area businesses.

Yes I would expect them to interview a closed business owner if they are alleging this has caused businesses to be closed. It is not hard to track down at least one for an article. All she has done is be more disciplined about over time which she apparently should have been doing anyway. And this goes back to that reality you are ignoring that NYC has been losing restaurants for years. Why Are So Many Great NYC Restaurants Closing? It's Not Just The Rent. - Food Republic

Just out of curiosity, have you ever tracked down a business owner, of a closed business before? You are acting like that wouldn't be hard, when it is very hard. My manager is a business owner. When he closed down in Ohio, he flew to the west coast, and was operating there with a partner. When that business fell through, he flew back to Ohio. He recently moved on from here, and last I heard he was in Italy.

Further, you seem to be forgetting a vital component of this, which the politics. If a business owners openly admits that he laid people off due to the minimum wage, he gets eaten alive in the media. I wouldn't give an interview. I'd pack up my wealth and business, and move out of the city, and start making money and jobs where there isn't stupid policies.

Why am I going to get my name posted in the news as the guy who laid people off because of the minimum wage, and then have people hounding me for months are years following? They could shut down my new business elsewhere.

And yes, NYC has been losing restaurants for years. I agree. You are dead on right, and you posted your article from 2016, which I also agree with completely.

View attachment 273575

The minimum wage in NYC has been going up for the last several years.

So I would fully expect that the loss of jobs in NYC would have been on-going for some time.

Yes it is easy. I have had to do it many times related to work. Usually you need to look at the corporate information through whichever state office handles them for that state, and then go to google. So your boss moved around a lot. You just have to figure out who his relatives are and call one of them.

I wish you had been talking to me years ago. I was missing a W2 for tax purposes, and had to look up an employer I had in 1997. The employer closed the year after I left the company. I searched for months, and never found anything on them. They had evidently left the state, and there was zero info on them, or where they were, or anything.

It comes up in my area often since the recession particularly when so many businesses holding judgments went under (Yes I am talking about you checking cashing/title loan/pay day lenders). If you cannot locate them, then you have to pay the money to the court that marks it satisfied and they turn it over to unclaimed property where is will sit forever paying the salaries of unclaimed property people who don't like to come off that money because they need lots of interest to make sure they get raises.

 

[danielpalos]

It isn't just small businesses and it has nothing to do with the Minimum Wage.

Uh, if you read the article, you'll find out that new minimum wage does have something to do with it. Have you read any of the zillion studies that document the harmful effects of an excessive minimum wage?

The article has nobody in it saying they have shut down due to the MW and small businesses in NYC have a lower MW than larger employers. There are businesses like Dunkin Doughnuts and cell phone companies that are expanding in NYC. It is a matter of what you provide. Restaurants have a short shelf-life in the Age of the Foodie so their numbers have been going down in NYC for years. Major retailers have been pulling out or downsizing to showroom only stores because sales have moved online.

Small Businesses Struggle With $15 Minimum Wage Hike in NY: 'They're Shutting Down'

EXCERPT: According to a report published Monday by the Wall Street Journal, many business leaders and owners in the Big Apple have said that they are having to cut hours, raise prices, and reduce staff in their businesses due to the rising labor costs that they say come from the recent city law bumping up the minimum wage. . . .

The president of the Queens Chamber of Commerce, Thomas Grech, told the Wall Street Journal that he has seen an increased number of small businesses closing in the last six to nine months. He believes the rising closures are due to the minimum wage legislation.

“They’re cutting their staff. They’re cutting their hours. They’re shutting down,” Grech said. “It’s not just the rent.”

Jesus dude...your own article refutes your bullshit.'

The only two businesses cited admit they have not even had to cut anyone and that all their employees are doing 40 hour weeks

Jesus what a lame thread

Ok, let's read it together......

Susannah Koteen, owner of Lido Restaurant in Harlem, said she worries about the impact raising wages could have on her restaurant, where she employs nearly 40 people. She hasn’t had to lay off anyone, but the increase has forced her to cut back on shifts and be more stringent about overtime. She said she changes her menu offerings seasonally and raises prices more often since the wage boost.

“What it really forces you to do is make sure that nobody works more than 40 hours,” Ms. Koteen said. “You can only cut back so many people before the service starts to suffer.”

Ms. Koteen said she shelved plans to move her restaurant to a larger location. That would require her to hire more staff, and she isn’t willing to take the risk with the unpredictability of her business. “You would just have no choice but to cut people at the bottom,” she said.

Thomas Grech, president of the Queens Chamber of Commerce, said he has seen an uptick in small-business closures during the past six to nine months, and he attributed it to the minimum-wage legislation.

“They’re cutting their staff. They’re cutting their hours. They’re shutting down,” he said. “It’s not just the rent.”​

So this mirrors my personal experience back in the 90s, when they raised the minimum wage. We had 3 part-time employees, and the first thing they did was lay off all 3 of them. When this business owner says she would have no choice but to cut people at the bottom, I wager that is what she means.

In order for the restaurant to continue operating without those 3 people, the rest of us were simply required to do more work.

Also I find it odd that you would even say "none of the businesses they talked to had to close"...if they were closed, how would they talk to them?

You think the reporters are going to show up at an empty strip mall, start hunting down all the former business owners, and track them down?

If only there was a group of people that monitored businesses in the area, that business owners could talk to, and give feed back on how their business was operating, and what problems businesses faced. You know like some sort of group of local business people, that could relay what is going on in the community in response to government policy....... Lets see, what could we do...

What if we created something called a "Chamber of Commerce".... we could even give it a local name like "Queens Chamber of Commerce" which would relay the problems happening in the area businesses.

Yes I would expect them to interview a closed business owner if they are alleging this has caused businesses to be closed. It is not hard to track down at least one for an article. All she has done is be more disciplined about over time which she apparently should have been doing anyway. And this goes back to that reality you are ignoring that NYC has been losing restaurants for years. Why Are So Many Great NYC Restaurants Closing? It's Not Just The Rent. - Food Republic

Just out of curiosity, have you ever tracked down a business owner, of a closed business before? You are acting like that wouldn't be hard, when it is very hard. My manager is a business owner. When he closed down in Ohio, he flew to the west coast, and was operating there with a partner. When that business fell through, he flew back to Ohio. He recently moved on from here, and last I heard he was in Italy.

Further, you seem to be forgetting a vital component of this, which the politics. If a business owners openly admits that he laid people off due to the minimum wage, he gets eaten alive in the media. I wouldn't give an interview. I'd pack up my wealth and business, and move out of the city, and start making money and jobs where there isn't stupid policies.

Why am I going to get my name posted in the news as the guy who laid people off because of the minimum wage, and then have people hounding me for months are years following? They could shut down my new business elsewhere.

And yes, NYC has been losing restaurants for years. I agree. You are dead on right, and you posted your article from 2016, which I also agree with completely.

View attachment 273575

The minimum wage in NYC has been going up for the last several years.

So I would fully expect that the loss of jobs in NYC would have been on-going for some time.

In our First World economy, capitalists should fail if they can Only make on the back of cheap labor.

 

[Dragonlady]

We did but we always had jobs waiting once the kid graduated. You previously noted Fisher Body. Gone. Cleveland Crane. Gone. TRW gone. Republic Steel. Gone. This list is long and it's just jobs off the top of my head that my friends parents had when I was growing up.

I delivered papers for the Cleveland Press. Gone.

You forgot the iceman and typewriter repairman … gone … and there have been plenty of times when fresh grads didn't find "shovel ready" jobs waiting. Our economy is always morphing ... often due to technology or changing demand, sometimes forced to by gov't regs (smokestack industries).

For all your loony-left, bleeding-heart hand wringing this country is at full employment (anything below 4%), the outlook is good, and we have plenty of as yet unfilled jobs - opportunities really - that some bright, ambitious kids are gonna get.

No Chicken Little, the sky is not falling, and less gov't intervention yields prosperity ... just the sort of thing leftards loathe.

The jobs I mentioned are still being done, just not here. Your car doesn't have sunshades? That's what they made at the Fisher Body plant (among other items).

TRW.

It was a pioneer in multiple fields including electronic components, integrated circuits, computers, software and systems engineering.

That isn't still be done?

You cherry pick to satisfy your leftarded narrative. Those jobs have been replaced by others. In the aggregate this country is at full employment (anything below 4%), the outlook is good, and we have plenty of as yet unfilled jobs - opportunities really - that some bright, ambitious kids are gonna get.

Good paying jobs have been replaced by low paying jobs. No one is arguing otherwise.

Making sunshades pays well? Again, in the aggregate wages are rising faster than inflation and the job market affords those with some skills and/or training to either earn more or move on to a better paying job. Interjecting gov't into the equation is guaranteed to screw things up … BIGLY … because it isn't the answer but rather too often the problem.

Wages haven't been rising faster than inflation for nearly 40 years. Salaries have been rising by leaps and bounds but wages have been stagnant and have been losing ground steadily since Reagan stopped giving raises to the working classes via minimum wage, and busted the unions which were negotiating better wages for middles class workers.

40% of the population has not benefitted from the Trump economy. There are 7 million job openings and only 4 million unemployed. NOBODY is retraining the 4 million for any of those jobs. Companies want workers who are qualified and capable of producing income the moment they walk in the door, and Republicans say that the broke unemployed people need to pay for their own retraining if they expect to better their lives. In Canada, we give tuition grants for retraining, and income support grants for trade apprenticeships, all in an effort to build up the trades, and prepare workers for the jobs in today's economy.

Some communities are turning into havens for retired city dwellers, like me, since only the wealthy can afford to stay in the city once they retire. My friend pays $900 per month in condo fees for his luxury apartment, overlooking the Rosedale Ravine, a 5 minutes walk from the subway in downtown Toronto. Since he became self-employed, he's frequently had to take in a roommate to make ends meet as he builds his marketing consulting firm, but his $300,000 investment 15 years ago is now worth over $1,000,000 today, and goes up average of $50,000 per year. Capital gains on your personal residence are tax free for Canadians, so my neighbour will be able to buy a condo in a retirement community right now, for somewhere south of $250,000, brand new, and retire with well over $500,000 in capital, today. Since he's only 55, he has another 5 years, minimum, in which to accumulate capital for his retirement.

 

[pknopp]

The good paying jobs are no longer there for the people who have to turn to Wal Mart. Does this really have to be spelled out in incredibly simple terms?

If what you said was true..... then we should be able to find highly skilled, highly educated walmart workers.

Those who walked in off the street just out of high school and landed the jobs I noted are gone were no more skilled than those working at Wal Mart today.

Jobs that require no more skill or hard work than walmart... would not be paying more than walmart.

There is no job, that is directly comparable to Walmart, that paid a middle class income. Sorry, you are insane if you think that.

Krogers used to be a job a person could make a nice living at.

Krogers? In the 1990s I worked at a job that was $5.25/hour as a Cashier at Big Bear, which was a direct competitor to Krogers. They didn't pay anymore than I earned at Big Bear.

Not sure how you define that as a nice living? Or are you going back in time? Because in the 1960s, they were paying less than $1.50, which was just barely over the minimum wage. (according to the university of Michigan survey of business)

So when was this time you could make a good living as an entry level Kroger employee?

I am neither pro or anti union but when I worked a route selling snack foods I could not place the items on the shelf's of a Krogers because they were union. Unions never paid people paupers wages.

 

[Dragonlady]

Yes, in Arizona there are a ton of self-checkouts.

It's only a matter of time before all fast-food and mid-grade level national chain restaurants are self-order. Greeters and food runners will be the only floor staff at the latter. The costs will be imputed into higher food prices and tipping will be a thing of the past.

Only mom & pop shops and high-end joints will still have people taking your order.

Jamming a national $15 min wage down every state's throat will just hasten the demise of the 2.5 million wait-staff jobs whose average reported income (wage+tips) is just over $10/hr. At least that is what they report but if their tips are replaced with a $15/hr min wage their howling will be deafening. Guess why.

Probably true and then we will pay people to stay home.

Does that seem to you an efficient way to operate a market economy?

My guess is it will be a gradual change and they will retrain (as the iceman did) and find other work. We have plenty of job openings to accommodate them and if the gov't doesn't meddle we will be just fine.

In Canada, the moment the jobs went south, we already had re-training programs in place, and income supports for re-training workers. We also have an entreprenuerial support program wherein the government supplies $300 per week income supports for your first year opening a new business, together with a business management 101 university level course, together with business planning software, and training. While American workers are still struggling with the displacement of the auto sector, the Canadian economy has completely recovered. Our "failure" to deregulate our banking system the way Republicans deregulated Wall Street in the waning days of the Clinton Presidency, saved our economy from crashing utterly when yours did in 2008.

Because of your much decried "government" meddling in regulating our banking system, and in providing income support programs and tuition bursaries to unemployed workers, income supports for low income families with children, so parents can either return to the work force, or have the option of remaining home with their children, we have low unemployment, more income equity, better infrastructure, health care and education and a higher standard of living for ALL of our population, not just the wealthy.

These are the 10 best countries in the world in 2019

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/best-education

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/open-for-business-rankings

Even in the World Freedom Index, Canadians have more personal freedoms than Americans:

Human Freedom Index

All of the countries with the fastest growing middle class populations are "Third world shithole countries", by American standards.

Top 5 Emerging Markets with the Best Middle Class Potential

Canada's dollar gets you 75 cents in the US and while the 2 countries have roughly the same avg income/worker your cost of living is significantly higher.

I'm truly happy for you but the US isn't Canada so bug off.

The moment YOU bug out of Canada, we'll return the favour. We currently have the US for-profit medical lobby in the USA, trying to buy their way into the Canadian medical system and have Conservative governments in 7 Canadian provinces in Canada let them enter Canada and extra bill Canadians. The ONLY thing stopping this from happening is Justin Trudeau and his Liberal Federal Government.

Americans have been trying to get a for-profit foot in the door of the Canadian medical system since Reagan was in power. We have to deal with your economic imperialism every single day. Americans own most of our iconic Canadian companies, including the Hudson Bay Company, Labatt's, and Tim Horton's. The only truly Canadian companies you don't own are those owned by the Weston Family, including Loblaws, President's Choice Brands and Weston Bakeries, and Canadian Tire, which is owned by the Biles Family. Roots has always been American owned as the company was started by ex-pat Americans, living in Canada.

In the latest NAFTA re-negotiation, despite having a trade surplus with Canada, Trump kept insisting that the reverse was true. I'm pleased to note that since Trump began focusing on trade with Canada, Canada achieved an overall trade surplus with the USA for the first time in history, in May of this year. Canadian exports to the US have never been higher, even though the steel tariffs are still in place, and Canada's trade surplus in manufactured goods has almost double over 2016, under the previous NAFTA agreement.

Every "problem" Trump has focused on, has gotten worse under the Great Negotiator's deal making. Illegal border crossings were at their lowest level in 50 years when Trump took office. Trump "got tough" on illegal border crossings and they're now at their highest levels in more than 15 years.

Exports to Europe have been cut in half. The trade deficits with China were their highest in history in 2018, despite Trump's much vaunted Trade Wars and tariffs on all of your trading partners.

DHS had 10,000 people in custody when Trump took office. Now he has 40,000 in custody in deplorable conditions.

And then there's the racist rallies, the demonization of non-whites and immigrants, and the shootings.

 

[Andylusion]

If what you said was true..... then we should be able to find highly skilled, highly educated walmart workers.

Those who walked in off the street just out of high school and landed the jobs I noted are gone were no more skilled than those working at Wal Mart today.

Jobs that require no more skill or hard work than walmart... would not be paying more than walmart.

There is no job, that is directly comparable to Walmart, that paid a middle class income. Sorry, you are insane if you think that.

Krogers used to be a job a person could make a nice living at.

Krogers? In the 1990s I worked at a job that was $5.25/hour as a Cashier at Big Bear, which was a direct competitor to Krogers. They didn't pay anymore than I earned at Big Bear.

Not sure how you define that as a nice living? Or are you going back in time? Because in the 1960s, they were paying less than $1.50, which was just barely over the minimum wage. (according to the university of Michigan survey of business)

So when was this time you could make a good living as an entry level Kroger employee?

I am neither pro or anti union but when I worked a route selling snack foods I could not place the items on the shelf's of a Krogers because they were union. Unions never paid people paupers wages.

I don't know anything about what you think Unions did or didn't pay.

What I know for a fact, is that they paid back then, and still pay to this day, is a low wage for entry level positions.

A cashier today, earns $8.50 to $9 an hour at Krogers. Which is just a few cents more than minimum wage. Here in Ohio the minimum wage is $8.55.

In fact, the primary reason I specifically did not apply for a job at Krogers, was because the pay was identical to Big Bear which was non-union, but at Krogers you had to pay in Union dues.

If you doubt that, go to the nearest Krogers and ask them what starting wage is for a cashier. Most will tell you.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Ever noticed the self checkouts everywhere and the lack of cashiers? I wonder what caused that?

Yes, in Arizona there are a ton of self-checkouts.

It's only a matter of time before all fast-food and mid-grade level national chain restaurants are self-order. Greeters and food runners will be the only floor staff at the latter. The costs will be imputed into higher food prices and tipping will be a thing of the past.

Only mom & pop shops and high-end joints will still have people taking your order.

Jamming a national $15 min wage down every state's throat will just hasten the demise of the 2.5 million wait-staff jobs whose average reported income (wage+tips) is just over $10/hr. At least that is what they report but if their tips are replaced with a $15/hr min wage their howling will be deafening. Guess why.

We're already on this ride. It's happening now regardless of whether we pay people not enough to support themselves or pay them almost enough. The fact that you guys think paying someone 5 bucks an hour when they can't survive on it is somehow beneficial.

Of course, you'll argue they should get a better job but in order to do so you need training or an education which also costs money and you guys don't support any sort of government sponsored education assistance.

These shit jobs usually come without healthcare which can lead to people in these jobs prone to health issues and of course they can't afford the care. But you guys don't care about that.

Trade school is affordable for virtually everybody in this country. The problem is people who are willing to go to school don't want to come out working with their hands. Advanced education should put you behind a desk or in a cubical where the heaviest thing you lift all day is your ass out of the chair.

If you still believe all is lost, there is always the military who will train you for many different types of work. My field alone we need over 60,000 drivers we can't find. You can become a certified tractor-trailer operator in less than two months of school. If you don't like that route, there are companies that will train you for free and get you licensed if you sign a contract to work for them for one year. Can't find Americans willing to take these offers and give you the ability to live anywhere in the country and make a good living.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

You cherry pick to satisfy your leftarded narrative. Those jobs have been replaced by others. In the aggregate this country is at full employment (anything below 4%), the outlook is good, and we have plenty of as yet unfilled jobs - opportunities really - that some bright, ambitious kids are gonna get.

Good paying jobs have been replaced by low paying jobs. No one is arguing otherwise.

I would argue otherwise, yes.

Please give me a specific example where a 'good paying job' was replaced by a 'low paying job'?

Where has this happened?

Everywhere. Wal Mart is the largest employer in many areas.

How is that relevant?

You said that good paying jobs were being replaced by low paying jobs. Are you suggesting that all the people working at that walmart, were highly paid electrical engineers, and their employer eliminated all their jobs, and Walmart hired them all?

The good paying jobs are no longer there for the people who have to turn to Wal Mart. Does this really have to be spelled out in incredibly simple terms?

You have to change with the times. Yes, at one time you could make 55K a year with great benefits riding around on a floor sweeper at a GM plant, but those days are long gone and you have to adjust. You can't expect employers to over pay workers doing monkey jobs because at one time that's what employers had to do. The American consumers refuse to stand for that.

There are still good paying jobs out there, just not for somebody with talent limited to turning nuts onto bolts or inspecting parts. If you get the education needed for various fields of work, the good pay is still out there.

 

[pknopp]

Good paying jobs have been replaced by low paying jobs. No one is arguing otherwise.

I would argue otherwise, yes.

Please give me a specific example where a 'good paying job' was replaced by a 'low paying job'?

Where has this happened?

Everywhere. Wal Mart is the largest employer in many areas.

How is that relevant?

You said that good paying jobs were being replaced by low paying jobs. Are you suggesting that all the people working at that walmart, were highly paid electrical engineers, and their employer eliminated all their jobs, and Walmart hired them all?

The good paying jobs are no longer there for the people who have to turn to Wal Mart. Does this really have to be spelled out in incredibly simple terms?

You have to change with the times. Yes, at one time you could make 55K a year with great benefits riding around on a floor sweeper at a GM plant, but those days are long gone and you have to adjust. You can't expect employers to over pay workers doing monkey jobs because at one time that's what employers had to do. The American consumers refuse to stand for that.

No they didn't as it was consumers that had these jobs. Shareholders did. Shareholders is why Boeing killed 350 people.

There are still good paying jobs out there, just not for somebody with talent limited to turning nuts onto bolts or inspecting parts. If you get the education needed for various fields of work, the good pay is still out there.

There are 10's of millions that need a job. How long are you and others going to continue to ignore this? It's not going away simply because you ignore it.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Ever noticed the self checkouts everywhere and the lack of cashiers? I wonder what caused that?

Yes, in Arizona there are a ton of self-checkouts.

It's only a matter of time before all fast-food and mid-grade level national chain restaurants are self-order. Greeters and food runners will be the only floor staff at the latter. The costs will be imputed into higher food prices and tipping will be a thing of the past.

Only mom & pop shops and high-end joints will still have people taking your order.

Jamming a national $15 min wage down every state's throat will just hasten the demise of the 2.5 million wait-staff jobs whose average reported income (wage+tips) is just over $10/hr. At least that is what they report but if their tips are replaced with a $15/hr min wage their howling will be deafening. Guess why.

Probably true and then we will pay people to stay home.

That's what we do now, and it isn't working so well.

 

[pknopp]

Ever noticed the self checkouts everywhere and the lack of cashiers? I wonder what caused that?

Yes, in Arizona there are a ton of self-checkouts.

It's only a matter of time before all fast-food and mid-grade level national chain restaurants are self-order. Greeters and food runners will be the only floor staff at the latter. The costs will be imputed into higher food prices and tipping will be a thing of the past.

Only mom & pop shops and high-end joints will still have people taking your order.

Jamming a national $15 min wage down every state's throat will just hasten the demise of the 2.5 million wait-staff jobs whose average reported income (wage+tips) is just over $10/hr. At least that is what they report but if their tips are replaced with a $15/hr min wage their howling will be deafening. Guess why.

Probably true and then we will pay people to stay home.

That's what we do now, and it isn't working so well.

Works better than the alternative. There are other alternatives but "shareholders" are not interested in better alternatives so we will pay more and more to simply stay home.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

No they didn't as it was consumers that had these jobs. Shareholders did. Shareholders is why Boeing killed 350 people.

Yes, consumers did have these jobs. It reminds me of times I went to K-Mart and seen cars with union stickers on them. People long ago felt like jobs were owed to them. They were led to believe by their union leaders and Democrat politicians that those jobs were here to stay and never going to to away. Nobody told them they had to buy their own union made products and reject foreign imports in order to keep those jobs.

There are 10's of millions that need a job. How long are you and others going to continue to ignore this? It's not going away simply because you ignore it.

Then tell them to go to any industrial area and apply at the dozens of companies who have HELP WANTED signs in front of their buildings. There is a difference between being unemployed and needing a job and not wanting to find one. How is it we have all these unemployed people when our country has more jobs than people to work them?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Ever noticed the self checkouts everywhere and the lack of cashiers? I wonder what caused that?

Yes, in Arizona there are a ton of self-checkouts.

It's only a matter of time before all fast-food and mid-grade level national chain restaurants are self-order. Greeters and food runners will be the only floor staff at the latter. The costs will be imputed into higher food prices and tipping will be a thing of the past.

Only mom & pop shops and high-end joints will still have people taking your order.

Jamming a national $15 min wage down every state's throat will just hasten the demise of the 2.5 million wait-staff jobs whose average reported income (wage+tips) is just over $10/hr. At least that is what they report but if their tips are replaced with a $15/hr min wage their howling will be deafening. Guess why.

Probably true and then we will pay people to stay home.

That's what we do now, and it isn't working so well.

Works better than the alternative. There are other alternatives but "shareholders" are not interested in better alternatives so we will pay more and more to simply stay home.

What do shareholders have to do with people staying at home? The only reason people stay at home is because they are lazy. It doesn't matter what any shareholder does.

 

[pknopp]

No they didn't as it was consumers that had these jobs. Shareholders did. Shareholders is why Boeing killed 350 people.

Yes, consumers did have these jobs. It reminds me of times I went to K-Mart and seen cars with union stickers on them. People long ago felt like jobs were owed to them. They were led to believe by their union leaders and Democrat politicians that those jobs were here to stay and never going to to away. Nobody told them they had to buy their own union made products and reject foreign imports in order to keep those jobs.

It wasn't consumers. Not all that long ago Wal-Mart had their "made in the USA" posters and placards everywhere. Then they demanded lower and lower and lower supplier costs and the only way to meet this was with foreign manufacturing. The "consumers," were not left with a choice.

Then tell them to go to any industrial area and apply at the dozens of companies who have HELP WANTED signs in front of their buildings. There is a difference between being unemployed and needing a job and not wanting to find one. How is it we have all these unemployed people when our country has more jobs than people to work them?

They have jobs. They don't pay enough to live on.