So let me get this pipeline shit straight

[theDoctorisIn]

Now back to the pipeline.

Nebraska's Governor and reps have no problem with it if Trans Canada re routes it to avoid the aquifer. Which as far as I know they have agreed to.

I think this move of cancelling the pipeline is really going to backfire on Obama. Unions strongly supported the Keystone.

The pipeline wasn't "cancelled". It was put on hold until TransCanada puts together a new plan.

Keystone Pipeline Rejected, API Slams President's Decision


By Pierre Bertrand: Subscribe to Pierre's RSS feed

January 18, 2012 4:03 PM EST

American Petroleum Institute President Jack Gerrard, the head of the largest energy industry trade group in the U.S., on Wednesday lambasted President Barack Obama's decision to cancel the Keystone XL Pipeline

Charging the president caved in to political pressure, Gerrard questioned Obama's commitment to job creation in canceling the 1,700-mile pipeline, a project that would create thousands of new jobs, he said.

"This decision is a clear abdication of presidential leadership," said Gerrard, adding the pipeline is essential to the nation's energy future and security.

Gerrard spoke during a teleconference in response to the administration's decision to reject the controversial pipeline.

In a statement the president released Wednesday explaining his decision to cancel the pipeline, the president blamed Republicans for imposing a deadline -- essentially forcing his hand.

I'm reading cancelled.

That's because you're reading the API press release. Not exactly an unbiased source.

Keystone XL Pipeline Seen Moving Ahead on Alternative Route - Businessweek

 

[HUGGY]

and Iran causing shit will make it jump 30.....
Libya made it jump 10-15....

I perfectly understand that when it comes to Oil and Gas these people have their asses so puckered up they only shit once a month.

Ignoring problems don't solve them. Every little bit WE CAN DO can mitigate the power that foreigners hold over us. Why some of you don't grasp this simple concept is beyond me. I suppose many of you see it as how many "cents" it will save "you" and therefore consider it no big deal.

Try multiplying 10 cents per gallon by how many may be driving then multiply it by and average of miles driven. Then realize that, that total will then be spent in OUR ECONOMY NOT IRANS and you can see that not only does it save every driver a little it also contributes largely to our own economy. The numbers are so big I won't even bother but the concept should be easy to grasp.

Why not? This is america, where we ignore problems till its to late, and even then we still ignore it. Hell we bitch because we dont get our Bigmac quick enough. You can do whatever you want to mitigate the power they have, but it will only go so far.

No i understand the larger scale, but you dont understand my opinion on it. You never asked. I am sure you would find it very reasonable.

No i get it Gramps. It adds up and it makes other products go up in cost as well. Sadly this is what you get when more people hop on board the oil train.

It would seem you dont understand the whole world market thing. See Iran does matter, because you cut off iran, that means China and Russia need to buy their oil from someplace else. Therefore the price of a barrel will go up because you havent replaced the oil from Iran that they cut off.

This is something you dont seem to realize. Sure you get the concept is big, and the numbers are large. So what? The actual situation of supply,demand, and prices is quite simple.

That was one friggin excellent post!

 

[tinydancer]

The pipeline wasn't "cancelled". It was put on hold until TransCanada puts together a new plan.

Keystone Pipeline Rejected, API Slams President's Decision


By Pierre Bertrand: Subscribe to Pierre's RSS feed

January 18, 2012 4:03 PM EST

American Petroleum Institute President Jack Gerrard, the head of the largest energy industry trade group in the U.S., on Wednesday lambasted President Barack Obama's decision to cancel the Keystone XL Pipeline

Charging the president caved in to political pressure, Gerrard questioned Obama's commitment to job creation in canceling the 1,700-mile pipeline, a project that would create thousands of new jobs, he said.

"This decision is a clear abdication of presidential leadership," said Gerrard, adding the pipeline is essential to the nation's energy future and security.

Gerrard spoke during a teleconference in response to the administration's decision to reject the controversial pipeline.

In a statement the president released Wednesday explaining his decision to cancel the pipeline, the president blamed Republicans for imposing a deadline -- essentially forcing his hand.

I'm reading cancelled.

That's because you're reading the API press release. Not exactly an unbiased source.

Keystone XL Pipeline Seen Moving Ahead on Alternative Route - Businessweek

The Nebraska Governor has already said he'd be happy to see TransCanada reroute the pipeline.

And this is phase 3 that's been in the works for 3 years now. I already put up a link to how the environmental issues were handled in depth.

We all know up here that it's an election year and that Obama's playing games. It's a no brainer. Odd that he's picking the enviro whackos versus unions though.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Keystone Pipeline Rejected, API Slams President's Decision


By Pierre Bertrand: Subscribe to Pierre's RSS feed

January 18, 2012 4:03 PM EST

American Petroleum Institute President Jack Gerrard, the head of the largest energy industry trade group in the U.S., on Wednesday lambasted President Barack Obama's decision to cancel the Keystone XL Pipeline

Charging the president caved in to political pressure, Gerrard questioned Obama's commitment to job creation in canceling the 1,700-mile pipeline, a project that would create thousands of new jobs, he said.

"This decision is a clear abdication of presidential leadership," said Gerrard, adding the pipeline is essential to the nation's energy future and security.

Gerrard spoke during a teleconference in response to the administration's decision to reject the controversial pipeline.

In a statement the president released Wednesday explaining his decision to cancel the pipeline, the president blamed Republicans for imposing a deadline -- essentially forcing his hand.

I'm reading cancelled.

That's because you're reading the API press release. Not exactly an unbiased source.

Keystone XL Pipeline Seen Moving Ahead on Alternative Route - Businessweek

The Nebraska Governor has already said he'd be happy to see TransCanada reroute the pipeline.

And this is phase 3 that's been in the works for 3 years now. I already put up a link to how the environmental issues were handled in depth.

We all know up here that it's an election year and that Obama's playing games. It's a no brainer. Odd that he's picking the enviro whackos versus unions though.

So they're going to re-route the pipeline, re-submit their plan, and probably get approved.

Of course Obama is playing games - that's what politicians do.

What do you call the Republicans forcing him to make a decision immediately, even though it'll take months for TransCanada to re-route the pipeline (which they'd already said they would do)?

Everyone is playing games. That's what politics is.


But Obama doesn't have to worry about losing the union support. Who are they going to vote for instead - all the Republican candidates who are all vocally anti-union?

 

[tinydancer]

That's because you're reading the API press release. Not exactly an unbiased source.

Keystone XL Pipeline Seen Moving Ahead on Alternative Route - Businessweek

The Nebraska Governor has already said he'd be happy to see TransCanada reroute the pipeline.

And this is phase 3 that's been in the works for 3 years now. I already put up a link to how the environmental issues were handled in depth.

We all know up here that it's an election year and that Obama's playing games. It's a no brainer. Odd that he's picking the enviro whackos versus unions though.

So they're going to re-route the pipeline, re-submit their plan, and probably get approved.

Of course Obama is playing games - that's what politicians do.

What do you call the Republicans forcing him to make a decision immediately, even though it'll take months for TransCanada to re-route the pipeline (which they'd already said they would do)?

Everyone is playing games. That's what politics is.


But Obama doesn't have to worry about losing the union support. Who are they going to vote for instead - all the Republican candidates who are all vocally anti-union?

Oh they won't swing to an R vote. But they are going to change tactics.

Are you aware of the AFL CIO's head honcho Trumka is basically setting up a labor left wing version of the Tea Party?

They are pissed at Obama and Democrats. They want jobs. My old computer died during a power failure last week and I haven't been able to retrieve my bookmarks, but if I remember correctly there was this big announcement around labor day last year.

Basically they are tired of being taken for granted.

 

[sfcalifornia]

OK the pipe line and gas will be down a dime in a week, or don't you understand the commodities market?

and Iran causing shit will make it jump 30.....
Libya made it jump 10-15....

I perfectly understand that when it comes to Oil and Gas these people have their asses so puckered up they only shit once a month.

Ignoring problems don't solve them. Every little bit WE CAN DO can mitigate the power that foreigners hold over us. Why some of you don't grasp this simple concept is beyond me. I suppose many of you see it as how many "cents" it will save "you" and therefore consider it no big deal.

Try multiplying 10 cents per gallon by how many may be driving then multiply it by and average of miles driven. Then realize that, that total will then be spent in OUR ECONOMY NOT IRANS and you can see that not only does it save every driver a little it also contributes largely to our own economy. The numbers are so big I won't even bother but the concept should be easy to grasp.

So long as oil remains our fuel of choice, Iran will always be a player in the game. If you really want to stick it to Iran, we need to develop cheap, easy fuel that every country in the entire world can make and thereby dry up Iran's source of income entirely.

 

[LoneLaugher]

Here we have an example of a thread evolving from a very meager and rehetorically unreasonable beginning to one that has informed and emlightened.

Thanks, thinking people. Thanks.

 

[uscitizen]

Why is the federal govt involved anyway?

I thought the pipeline was a private venture and woudl deal with the states and municipalities it wants to cross?


But no it must use the federal govt to sledgehammer the pipeline thru? Sounds like private industry trying to use the govt to me.

 

[L.K.Eder]

A couple of points.

First a question. Are you misinformed? Or are you simply engaging in a disinformation campaign? After all, you're the one who said that this was (among other things) little more than Obama trying to save a few sand dunes. I can assure you that the people in Nebraska take their cherished way of life seriously, and they have no intention of rolling over and being forced to accept an oil pipeline running over their farm land and the aquifer that provides irrigation to their corn crops when there are legitimate safety concerns and the pipeline can be rerouted. And you can't seriously expect Nebraskans to cave in just because Texas oilmen are already counting the money they'll make from that oil.

At any rate, Obama has nothing to gain from Nebraskans by taking their concerns seriously since they're not going to vote for him anyway.

Totally true. Republicans will cheer as their leaders fuck them to death.

Their first words after getting slapped in the face with a shit pie, "Please sir, can I have some more?"

The irony is delicious.

Republicans in DC, purveyors and champions of states' rights, are trying to force the pipeline on Nebraska Republicans who don't want it, and Obama, the Democrat president who Republicans deride as being a power-hungry statist, comes to the rescue of Nebraska Republicans even though he'll never get any of their electoral college votes.

obama won the omaha electoral vote in 2008

 

[Claudette]

Its a political move on Barrys part.

Must have been a hard choice. Unions or the tree huggers.

Guess he opted for the huggers.

Anyone who thinks this loser cares about jobs is living in la la land. He obviously could care less.

Sure hope Americans remember how much he CARES come Nov 2012.

Lets hope whoever the GOP nominates reminds them each and every day.

I sure as hell would.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Dems believe that unemployment stimulates the economy.

True story

 

[HUGGY]

Its a political move on Barrys part.

Must have been a hard choice. Unions or the tree huggers.

Guess he opted for the huggers.

Anyone who thinks this loser cares about jobs is living in la la land. He obviously could care less.

Sure hope Americans remember how much he CARES come Nov 2012.

Lets hope whoever the GOP nominates reminds them each and every day.

I sure as hell would.

Do you really need a job that bad? I hear Perry is hiring...he claiims he's the world champeen at it.

 

[Mr. H.]

Why is the federal govt involved anyway?

I thought the pipeline was a private venture and woudl deal with the states and municipalities it wants to cross?


But no it must use the federal govt to sledgehammer the pipeline thru? Sounds like private industry trying to use the govt to me.

You do understand that the pipeline would cross an international border?

This requires approval by the Department of State.
In 2009 (yes, just 3 years ago), a similar pipeline- the Alberta Clipper was approved.
Here are the details from the U.S. Department of State website:

U.S. Department of State

And here are a couple of very interesting statements from that website...

"...the addition of crude oil pipeline capacity between Canada and the United States will advance a number of strategic interests of the United States. These included increasing the diversity of available supplies among the United States’ worldwide crude oil sources in a time of considerable political tension in other major oil producing countries and regions; shortening the transportation pathway for crude oil supplies; and increasing crude oil supplies from a major non-Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries producer.

Canada is a stable and reliable ally and trading partner of the United States, with which we have free trade agreements which augment the security of this energy supply."


"Approval of the permit sends a positive economic signal, in a difficult economic period, about the future reliability and availability of a portion of United States’ energy imports, and in the immediate term, this shovel-ready project will provide construction jobs for workers in the United States."

Why, in the name of sanity, would THIS pipeline get the green light but NOT the XL project?

Alberta Clipper - 450,000 barrels/day of Canadian oil. Over 500 miles of pipeline traversing 3 States.

THIS makes the current decision totally contradictory. Totally fucked up if you ask me.

 

[Claudette]

Its a political move on Barrys part.

Must have been a hard choice. Unions or the tree huggers.

Guess he opted for the huggers.

Anyone who thinks this loser cares about jobs is living in la la land. He obviously could care less.

Sure hope Americans remember how much he CARES come Nov 2012.

Lets hope whoever the GOP nominates reminds them each and every day.

I sure as hell would.

Do you really need a job that bad? I hear Perry is hiring...he claiims he's the world champeen at it.

Nope. Got a job Hug but there are plenty out there who are still looking.

Perhaps you should address your comment to those folks.

 

[Inthemiddle]

I haven't forgotten. But there is a slight difference for your few miles a week driven to my hundreds and hundreds. You do the math. It would help both of us but in my case it could save me hundreds of dollars a month. That's half of a possible new laborers salary or money for my retirement or money to invest. There have been weeks where I have had to spend over 300 per week on fuel to function. When gas was at 4 bucks a gallon I would often opt for hotel rooms to save money. And I'm just a small business. Translate those possible savings to a company with a fleet or a company like FedEx.

They Keystone XL project would likely have increased the cost of gas in the US.

 

[Inthemiddle]

Why, in the name of sanity, would THIS pipeline get the green light but NOT the XL project?

Because the bubble burst. A few years ago, when oil sands technology started coming out, there was a rapid expansion of pipeline capacity flowing from Canada to the US. However, the market did not need that expansion, and in fact the demand for oil shrank with the worldwide recession. And naturally, the demand oil transportation diminished. Yet these pipelines remain present, their construction and maintenance costs remain, and those who operate those pipelines still need to recoup their expenses. The result is higher prices to ship oil along the pipelines, which translates into higher pump prices.

The Keystone project would have further exacerbated that situation. Currently, pipelines between the US and Canada operate at a little more than half capacity. The total costs that shipping companies need to recoup for maintenance and construction of the lines is thus being charged at a higher rate per gallon of oil. The Keystone project would have increased total capacity, without increasing total shipments, and the result would be that LESS THAN HALF of total pipeline capacity would be being employed. All those overhead costs, then, would be DOUBLE, PER GALLON, what they have to be, which would drive pump prices even higher.

 

[WillowTree]

Dems believe that unemployment stimulates the economy.

True story

yes, I believe mrs dumb ass Pelosi said for every dollar they spend on welfare they get $1.87 back.. the dumbassess should put us all on welfare and see how that shit works out.

 

[Inthemiddle]

dumb dumb dumb

Obviously you don't have anything by which you can refute me, all you can do is resort to name calling. That shows the merit of your position. In fact, it's not "dumb" at all. What would be dumb would be to simply assume that "more oil, prices will lower!" That would indeed be dumb, because there are more factors involved than that. I've explained how those factors would increase pump prices several times. I've explained it here, I've explained it in previous threads. It's all very straight forward and logical. But still, you can't grasp it. So save your "dumb dumb dumb" for yourself.

 

[OldUSAFSniper]

You know, there is ignorance and then there is stupidity. After reading the posts in this thread, I guess you have to deal with complete and total ignorance AND stupidity from Barry and his parrots on the left. Some of the absolute CRAP that I have read here just defines what is wrong with this country at the moment.

The first piece of sheer ridiculousness that I read was the fact that if we build the XL Pipeline, then it will RAISE the price of gas. Huh? Even for the left, who despises the capatalistic and free enterprise system, this is one of the most ignorant statements that I have ever heard. Would ANYBODY who KNOWS the oil and gas industry please speak up if you even REMOTELY believe that is the case? (Crickets chirping). It would LOWER the price of gas, some industry experts believe, as much as $1.50 per gallon. It would provide MORE crude to refineries on the Gulf coast and it would be available to the eastern half of the country.

Now here's one that I just love. Well, whether we build the pipeline or not, most of it would go to China. GAWD!!!! Right now there are 30,000 miles of pipelines under the United States. There already is one XL pipeline from Canada to Cushing, Oklahoma. What there isn't and there NEVER has been is a pipeline that goes from the east coast to the west coast carrying crude. Why? A little thing called the Rocky Mountains. You could build one now if you had a pumping station about every other mile. But imagine the cost of that baby. If the XL pipeline is built, the refined product would be on the gulf coast. IF China wants it then they would have to put tankers through the Panama canal OR they would have to traverse around South America. The cost to them would be enormous, but they would pay AND they would pay us. The primary customer of that refined product would be primarily the east coast of the United States. When the pipeline really got going, then I would imagine that it would then be sold to the Europeans. It would be nice to have the French sucking at our teet for once.

I really like this one. Well, the oil from the tar sands in Alberta is "dirty" oil. Really? And have you ever been around a barrel of oil that comes out of the ground? You can't use it for anything. It has to be refined stupid. After you refine it, then you get gasoline, diesel, machine oil, etc. After refining, there isn't one bit of difference between the gasoline refined from Texas crude, Kansas heavy, or Alberta tar. Good God people, use your freakin brains.

Why if you build the XL Pipeline, then it will completely destroy the environment. Oh my God. There are 30,000 miles of pipeline (carrying crude and refined products) under this country right NOW. In Nebraska where the tree-huggers are so fired up about this lizard, there are pipelines that go right through that area. If people knew how close they lived to a pipeline that runs under their feet, they would be amazed. And most of them just keep working without a hitch.

Oh, and let's not forget the energy independence, the affect it would have on our national security, the ability to pump some of it into the National Petroleum Reserve domes in Texas AND the simple fact that Barry wouldn't have to bow to Saudi Sheiks anymore (although I secretly think he would).

If you don't know anything about oil and gas, then just say so. When you open your mouth and you parrot the stupidity of organizations like "Friends of the Earth" or other 'progressive' people, to those of us who are in that industry, you just look stupid AND ignorant.

 

[newpolitics]

Dems believe that unemployment stimulates the economy.

True story

Are you really this stupid?