So this guy from Chicago, shows up at a Florida Convenience store showing the clerk he has a gun. Clerk shows robber his gun. Yeah for 2nd amend.

[Pellinore]

And yet, he shot up a school , so.... no.

Why do you think a law will prevent this?

It is impossible to legally avoid the background checks specified by federal law - and thus, there is no loophole.

The "gun show loophole" refers to the fact that private sellers don't have to conduct federal background checks. The article mentions that clearly.

This guy tried to buy a semi-automatic rifle at a dealer, but the background check successfully prevented the sale. He then went to a private seller and legally bought his gun there, because there is no law that requires a federal background check on private sales.

So there's your answer: A law requiring the same federal background check on the private sale, would have prevented that sale.

 

[M14 Shooter]

The "gun show loophole" refers to the fact that private sellers don't have to conduct federal background checks. The article mentions that clearly.

Right. That's not a loophole; characterizing it as such is a lie.

So there's your answer: A law requiring the same federal background check on the private sale, would have prevented that sale.

Why do you think such a law would have prevent this sale?

 

[2aguy]

The "gun show loophole" refers to the fact that private sellers don't have to conduct federal background checks. The article mentions that clearly.

This guy tried to buy a semi-automatic rifle at a dealer, but the background check successfully prevented the sale. He then went to a private seller and legally bought his gun there, because there is no law that requires a federal background check on private sales.

So there's your answer: A law requiring the same federal background check on the private sale, would have prevented that sale.

That's not a loophole. Selling your private property is not selling as a gun store....

Nope....he would have simply gotten the gun from criminals.....they don't do background checks for any of their guns...you doofus.

 

[hadit]

It doesn't matter if civilian gun ownership reduces crime or not.

If you want to confine this to murder rates we can.

The murder rate in the UK today is about the same as it was in 1950 despite passing draconian gun laws in the 60's and subsequently banning civilians from owning hand guns and almost all centerfire rifle calibers.

The murder rate in the US today is about what it was in 1950 despite the institution of background checks, a 10 year assault weapons ban, the passing of literally thousands of gun laws and more people than ever not only owning firearms but also having concealed carry permits.

Gun laws do not equal lower murder rates.

And that proves my point, which is that the US has had guns readily available for hundreds of years now, and only lately has there been a problem with mass shooters, school shooters, etc. What changed? It's not the guns.

 

[JoeB131]

You have no facts to support your nonsensical, "she was nuts", comment.

Now, to brass tacks. What is your source that claims the DC snipers had felony arrests and passed a background check to buy their gun?

New rule... I am not going to look stuff up that you are too lazy to look up yourself.

Your complain is only valid if these shooters passed the check with a conviction on their record. If you can't produce it, have the integrity to admit you just made it up because it sounded good.

But that's the point, they SHOULDN'T have passed a background check. But the background check system is so weak, it's a joke.

Everyone whines about how IL has the toughest gun laws... Yeah, tough. $11.00 for a FOID card.

 

[JoeB131]

That's not a loophole. Selling your private property is not selling as a gun store....

Nope....he would have simply gotten the gun from criminals.....they don't do background checks for any of their guns...you doofus.

But that's the point. If I were to sell my car, even in a private sale, then I would have to transfer title, get it registered with a license plate, etc.

But you can just hand over a gun for some quick cash.

 

[hadit]

New rule... I am not going to look stuff up that you are too lazy to look up yourself.

Strike 1. I predicted you were going to dance and dodge, and you did. No, YOU made the claim, YOU specifically cited them as an example of shooters who passed background checks they shouldn't have and bought a gun. It's therefore on YOU do back it up. You know, I actually did do a little research on that one, and there was no easily found evidence that they passed any background check, so, if you want to maintain any semblance of credibility, produce the proof or admit you have none and made it all up.

But that's the point, they SHOULDN'T have passed a background check. But the background check system is so weak, it's a joke.

Everyone whines about how IL has the toughest gun laws... Yeah, tough. $11.00 for a FOID card.

Strike 2. More dancing and dodging. Your complaint is only valid if these shooters passed a background check with a conviction on their record. If you can't produce it, have the integrity to admit you just made it up because it sounded good.

 

[Hollie]

New rule... I am not going to look stuff up that you are too lazy to look up yourself.




But that's the point, they SHOULDN'T have passed a background check. But the background check system is so weak, it's a joke.

Everyone whines about how IL has the toughest gun laws... Yeah, tough. $11.00 for a FOID card.

New rule. You will continue to spam the thread with nonsensical, unsupported, emotional outbursts.

Same as the old rule.

 

[Pellinore]

Right. That's not a loophole; characterizing it as such is a lie.

That's fine. It's what people call it, but common-use political terms aren't always accurate like that.

Why do you think such a law would have prevent this sale?

It's true, the sale could have been illegal, but you may have seen in the article that the guy's mother then called the police to come take the gun. She said he was presenting a danger, but the police couldn't take it because Missouri has no red flag laws. If the gun was illegally purchased, though, they would have had cause and taken it away. No gun, no shooting.

A federal background check for private purchases would have prevented this shooting.

 

[Batcat]

.I'm not that worried about the gun nut who is burying his guns. Still gets those guns out of circulation.



.

And when the time is ripe to overthrow the totalitarian government the firearms and ammo will come out of the ground to arm the rebels and end the oppression.

 

[2aguy]

But that's the point. If I were to sell my car, even in a private sale, then I would have to transfer title, get it registered with a license plate, etc.

But you can just hand over a gun for some quick cash.

Yep...because it is private property.....and yet criminals are not doing this...they are going to known straw buyers, people who are knowingly selling guns to criminals in the first place...so background checks wouldn't stop them.

Registration for cars is not the same as for guns....at this point you guys are not trying to ban and confiscate cars...you plan to, it just isn't your priority. You want gun registration because you know your cousins in Germany used registration lists to take guns away from Jews and their political enemies......

 

[2aguy]

That's fine. It's what people call it, but common-use political terms aren't always accurate like that.


It's true, the sale could have been illegal, but you may have seen in the article that the guy's mother then called the police to come take the gun. She said he was presenting a danger, but the police couldn't take it because Missouri has no red flag laws. If the gun was illegally purchased, though, they would have had cause and taken it away. No gun, no shooting.

A federal background check for private purchases would have prevented this shooting.

Red Flag laws aren't needed. Most states already have laws that allow you to commit people for mental health issues.

A federal background check already failed to stop him......at the gun store.....if you had background checks on private sales, you would need to have gun registration ...... otherwise you wouldn't know who possessed which guns when, and you wouldn't know if a background check had been done......this is why anti-gun fascists want universal background checks....they want gun registration...that is the only reason they want it. Criminals get guns from straw buyers, people who knowingly sell to criminals using their own clean police records, so a background check won't stop them. We can already arrest the straw buyers and we can already arrest the criminals. You have one guy who used a gun for a shooting who went to a private buyer...

To put this in perspective....

Mass Public Shootings in 2020....

6

Total killed.....

43

Number of gun murders in 2020....

19,348

So you want to force the owners of 600 million legal guns to register their guns...for later confiscation by leftists..for a total of 43 people murdered by 6 people out of over 350 million people....

The other 19,000 gun murders occur because criminals get their guns by stealing them, or using straw buyers.....straw buyers who are a lot of the time their girlfriends, mothers, grandmothers, baby mommas.....who are forced to buy the guns under threat of violence or for money.....

Sorry....you don't understand the issue.....and background checks on private sales are only desired in order to demand gun registration.......

 

[2aguy]

That's fine. It's what people call it, but common-use political terms aren't always accurate like that.


It's true, the sale could have been illegal, but you may have seen in the article that the guy's mother then called the police to come take the gun. She said he was presenting a danger, but the police couldn't take it because Missouri has no red flag laws. If the gun was illegally purchased, though, they would have had cause and taken it away. No gun, no shooting.

A federal background check for private purchases would have prevented this shooting.

Another thing...had he been blocked in a private sale, he would have simply murdered the private seller and taken his gun...you know, like the Sandy Hook shooter did...or he would have found someone who was a straw buyer who would have sold him the gun anyway.......

The only reason anti-gun fascists want universal background checks is to then demand gun registration...something they need for when they get the power to ban and confiscate guns....they know this from the experience of France, Britain, German, New Zealand, Australia, Canada, and a few states in the U.S......first they demanded gun registration...just to know who had the guns, then years later used those lists to confiscate those guns........

So nope.....no universal background checks....

 

[JoeB131]

Strike 1. I predicted you were going to dance and dodge, and you did. No, YOU made the claim,

Uh, guy, here's why I don't post links.

Because when I do, you guys pretend you didn't see them, or you claim they are from a biased source. Then you go on and keep making the same claims over and over again.

The point is, EVERY mass shooter is able to get a gun, despite either histories of mental illness or criminal records that SHOULD disqualify them if we actually performed meaningful background checks.

It's why every time there is a mass shooter, we find out EVERYONE in their lives knew they were nuts... and they were able to get guns anyway.

More dancing and dodging. Your complaint is only valid if these shooters passed a background check with a conviction on their record. If you can't produce it, have the integrity to admit you just made it up because it sounded good.

Established fact... the two cases I cited involved guys who were legally barred from buying guns. You can add to that the Texas Church shooter, who was given a bad conduct discharge from the Air Force from domestic battery.

Look it up yourself.

 

[JoeB131]

Yep...because it is private property.....and yet criminals are not doing this...they are going to known straw buyers, people who are knowingly selling guns to criminals in the first place...so background checks wouldn't stop them.

But the point is, the gun stores are KNOWINGLY selling to straw buyers... which they can get away with because there is little to no regulation or accountability.

Allow gun violence victims to sue, you'd be amazed how fast they clean up their act.

Registration for cars is not the same as for guns....at this point you guys are not trying to ban and confiscate cars...you plan to, it just isn't your priority. You want gun registration because you know your cousins in Germany used registration lists to take guns away from Jews and their political enemies......

Nobody is trying to ban of confiscate guns.

Nazi Germany had WIDESPREAD gun ownership. The Nazis repealed Weimer-era gun laws. Gun ownership was seen as a sign of Aryan Manliness. (Sound familiar?) The fact is, when the Nazis came for the Jews, most Germans were perfectly okay with that, because 500 years of blatant anti-Semitism made that acceptable.

The point is, cars have a potential for harm, even when operated without ill intent. That's why they make you go to court for every minor fender-bender.

 

[JoeB131]

Another thing...had he been blocked in a private sale, he would have simply murdered the private seller and taken his gun...you know, like the Sandy Hook shooter did...or he would have found someone who was a straw buyer who would have sold him the gun anyway.......

Lanza didn't murder his mom to get her guns. She gave him easy access to the guns any time he wanted them.

He murdered her because she was going to put his retard ass into a home because she couldn't deal with him anymore.

 

[Hollie]

But the point is, the gun stores are KNOWINGLY selling to straw buyers... which they can get away with because there is little to no regulation or accountability.

Allow gun violence victims to sue, you'd be amazed how fast they clean up their act.



Nobody is trying to ban of confiscate guns.

Nazi Germany had WIDESPREAD gun ownership. The Nazis repealed Weimer-era gun laws. Gun ownership was seen as a sign of Aryan Manliness. (Sound familiar?) The fact is, when the Nazis came for the Jews, most Germans were perfectly okay with that, because 500 years of blatant anti-Semitism made that acceptable.

The point is, cars have a potential for harm, even when operated without ill intent. That's why they make you go to court for every minor fender-bender.

But the point is, you can't support your statement that, ''gun stores are KNOWINGLY selling to straw buyers''.

I actually did the research, (because I know your comments are largely invented, unsupported emotional outbursts), and I found only three instances of charges being brought.

There are 133,716 FFLs in the US.

 

[JoeB131]

But the point is, you can't support your statement that, ''gun stores are KNOWINGLY selling to straw buyers''.

I actually did the research, (because I know your comments are largely invented, unsupported emotional outbursts), and I found only three instances of charges being brought.

There are 133,716 FFLs in the US.

Which just proves the laws aren't being enforced in any meaningful way.

Their Guns Fueled Chicago Crime. When They Broke the Law, The ATF Went Easy.

A report from the Chicago mayor’s office named gun stores whose wares consistently wound up in city crimes. ATF records show the agency was lenient.

www.thetrace.org

Over the last two decades, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives let some of the Midwest’s most notorious gun sellers off the hook for serious violations of federal law, including selling to straw purchasers, transferring guns without background checks, and doctoring sales records.

The Trace and USA TODAY obtained ATF inspection records for 13 gun dealers singled out by the city of Chicago as suppliers of a disproportionate number of guns used in city crimes. The records show the agency found more than 120 violations of the federal Gun Control Act of 1968 at these stores. Only one store passed its inspection with no violations.

snip

That investigation found that between 2015 and 2017, the ATF regularly downgraded penalties for lawbreaking retailers across the U.S. The review of more than 2,000 gun dealers showed that many had brazenly flouted federal laws, selling weapons to convicted felons and domestic abusers, lying to inspectors, and falsifying ledgers to hide their misconduct. When the ATF discovered these violations, it often issued warnings, sometimes repeatedly, and allowed stores to stay open.

In four agency inspections at Blythe’s Sports Shop in Griffith, Indiana, between 2000 and 2009, the ATF issued warnings to owner Rodger Blythe for violations that included selling to underage customers and to someone who identified themself as a convicted felon, failing to notify the ATF of multiple sales, and failing to properly record firearm transfers.

In a 2011 inspection, investigators found that the store had “aided the making of false statements” on federally mandated purchasing forms and sold to a person buying weapons on behalf of someone else — a federal crime known as “straw purchasing.”

According to ATF guidelines, Blythe’s 2011 violations, alongside his history of previous warnings, warranted the revocation of his license to sell guns. Instead, inspectors chose to warn Blythe again.

 

[2aguy]

Lanza didn't murder his mom to get her guns. She gave him easy access to the guns any time he wanted them.

He murdered her because she was going to put his retard ass into a home because she couldn't deal with him anymore.

Moron, he murdered her then took her guns, you idiot.

 

[2aguy]

Which just proves the laws aren't being enforced in any meaningful way.

Their Guns Fueled Chicago Crime. When They Broke the Law, The ATF Went Easy.

A report from the Chicago mayor’s office named gun stores whose wares consistently wound up in city crimes. ATF records show the agency was lenient.

www.thetrace.org

Over the last two decades, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives let some of the Midwest’s most notorious gun sellers off the hook for serious violations of federal law, including selling to straw purchasers, transferring guns without background checks, and doctoring sales records.

The Trace and USA TODAY obtained ATF inspection records for 13 gun dealers singled out by the city of Chicago as suppliers of a disproportionate number of guns used in city crimes. The records show the agency found more than 120 violations of the federal Gun Control Act of 1968 at these stores. Only one store passed its inspection with no violations.

snip

That investigation found that between 2015 and 2017, the ATF regularly downgraded penalties for lawbreaking retailers across the U.S. The review of more than 2,000 gun dealers showed that many had brazenly flouted federal laws, selling weapons to convicted felons and domestic abusers, lying to inspectors, and falsifying ledgers to hide their misconduct. When the ATF discovered these violations, it often issued warnings, sometimes repeatedly, and allowed stores to stay open.

In four agency inspections at Blythe’s Sports Shop in Griffith, Indiana, between 2000 and 2009, the ATF issued warnings to owner Rodger Blythe for violations that included selling to underage customers and to someone who identified themself as a convicted felon, failing to notify the ATF of multiple sales, and failing to properly record firearm transfers.

In a 2011 inspection, investigators found that the store had “aided the making of false statements” on federally mandated purchasing forms and sold to a person buying weapons on behalf of someone else — a federal crime known as “straw purchasing.”

According to ATF guidelines, Blythe’s 2011 violations, alongside his history of previous warnings, warranted the revocation of his license to sell guns. Instead, inspectors chose to warn Blythe again.

Violations? You mean they mispelled words...you idiot. And there you are, your government failed...you god, "Government," keeps failing, yet you blame normal gun owning Americans....for the failure of your God.....

You need to go after your government and leave normal gun owners alone...we have all the gun laws we need to arrest and lock up straw buyers...but your government keeps letting them go...you slave owning political party, the democrat party, keeps releasing the most violent, dangerous gun felons over and over again, and keeps releasing the straw buyers supplying them...and you still vote for them.....

That is on you...not normal gun owners.