So, we should live in FEAR of Islam???

[Czernobog]

Okay. So, I'm watching MtP, and Tom cotton is on. He is discussing, big surprise, his position on immigration (That seems to be the only thing politicos an talk about these days, as if nothing else is going on in the world, but that's another discussion...), and he brings up terrorism. When Chuck asked him if his rhetoric didn't amount to fear-monger, his response kinda surprised me.

"Well, the Islamic State is cutting heads off of Americans right now, and their leader has said they want to strike us here in the United States. That's something we should be fearful of,"

Really? I have to say, I am not particularly fearful of the "muslim-man" sneaking up from Mexico to cut my head off. The last several successful attacks on US soil - the guy who got his head cut off, the Boston Bombing - They share one common trait. These were not acts that "tighter borders" would have prevented. These were acts that were committed by American citizens, already here. Furthermore, the one instance that we know of with Hezbola contracting with the Mexican drug cartels to get them into the US was foiled. That's how we knew they were attempting to do this - because We. Caught. Them!

So, I'm having a hard time understanding why Senator (Representative?) Cotton would be suggesting that it is in our interest to return to the Bush philosophy of being afraid that the Boogie Man is coming, and he wears a turban...

For those who are going to ask, this was a live post, so, no, I don't have video feed of Mr. Cotton's comment. I transcribed it directly from the show. Hopefully there will be a video post of the comments, later today?

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Okay. So, I'm watching MtP, and Tom cotton is on. He is discussing, big surprise, his position on immigration (That seems to be the only thing politicos an talk about these days, as if nothing else is going on in the world, but that's another discussion...), and he brings up terrorism. When Chuck asked him if his rhetoric didn't amount to fear-monger, his response kinda surprised me.

"Well, the Islamic State is cutting heads off of Americans right now, and their leader has said they want to strike us here in the United States. That's something we should be fearful of,"

Really? I have to say, I am not particularly fearful of the "muslim-man" sneaking up from Mexico to cut my head off. The last several successful attacks on US soil - the guy who got his head cut off, the Boston Bombing - They share one common trait. These were not acts that "tighter borders" would have prevented. These were acts that were committed by American citizens, already here. Furthermore, the one instance that we know of with Hezbola contracting with the Mexican drug cartels to get them into the US was foiled. That's how we knew they were attempting to do this - because We. Caught. Them!

So, I'm having a hard time understanding why Senator (Representative?) Cotton would be suggesting that it is in our interest to return to the Bush philosophy of being afraid that the Boogie Man is coming, and he wears a turban...

For those who are going to ask, this was a live post, so, no, I don't have video feed of Mr. Cotton's comment. I transcribed it directly from the show. Hopefully there will be a video post of the comments, later today?

More to fear driving to work than terrorism. More likely to die slipping in the shower than from terrorism. Like ebola, immigration, and gay marriage, terrorism is being used as a political issue to rally support.

 

[Tom Sweetnam]

I'm a former army Ranger. I fear no man...well, except I do sleep with the light on sometimes on account of all the monsters hiding in my closet.

 

[Czernobog]

Okay. So, I'm watching MtP, and Tom cotton is on. He is discussing, big surprise, his position on immigration (That seems to be the only thing politicos an talk about these days, as if nothing else is going on in the world, but that's another discussion...), and he brings up terrorism. When Chuck asked him if his rhetoric didn't amount to fear-monger, his response kinda surprised me.

"Well, the Islamic State is cutting heads off of Americans right now, and their leader has said they want to strike us here in the United States. That's something we should be fearful of,"

Really? I have to say, I am not particularly fearful of the "muslim-man" sneaking up from Mexico to cut my head off. The last several successful attacks on US soil - the guy who got his head cut off, the Boston Bombing - They share one common trait. These were not acts that "tighter borders" would have prevented. These were acts that were committed by American citizens, already here. Furthermore, the one instance that we know of with Hezbola contracting with the Mexican drug cartels to get them into the US was foiled. That's how we knew they were attempting to do this - because We. Caught. Them!

So, I'm having a hard time understanding why Senator (Representative?) Cotton would be suggesting that it is in our interest to return to the Bush philosophy of being afraid that the Boogie Man is coming, and he wears a turban...

For those who are going to ask, this was a live post, so, no, I don't have video feed of Mr. Cotton's comment. I transcribed it directly from the show. Hopefully there will be a video post of the comments, later today?

More to fear driving to work than terrorism. More likely to die slipping in the shower than from terrorism. Like ebola, immigration, and gay marriage, terrorism is being used as a political issue to rally support.

Well...I don't think that terrorism is something to just pretend is not a threat. However, I think rhetoric like this causes us to focus on entirely the wrong terrorist threat. The threat, contrary to Republican rhetoric, isn't sneaking across our "southern borders" in the dead of night - it is already hear, carrying social security cards, and US IDs. That is the threat we need to identify, and figure out how to neutralize. And, when I say neutralize, I don't mean hunting them down. If we're hunting down United States citizens who hate us so much that they want to blow us up, then we're too late, and we've already fucked up.

No. We need to identify what we are doing wrong that is causing our own fucking citizens to be so pissed off at us that joining a religious, militant extremist organization, and killing their own family, friends, and co-workers actually seems like a reasonable decision, and then do what it takes to reverse that trend.

 

[Czernobog]

I'm a former army Ranger. I fear no man...well, except I do sleep with the light on sometimes on account of all the monsters hiding in my closet.

Silly man! There are no monsters under your bed...

...they hide in the closet. Much more room.

 

[Boatswain2PA]

Czerno - The Boston Bombings are somewhat related to our immigration problem. If I remember right, the brothers and/or some of their family came here legally, but then overstayed their visa's. Furthermore, they received enormous amounts of welfare while they were visitors here. This IS an immigration problem because we should ONLY be accepting immigrants who can add value to our nation, not simply be leeches.

Fear is a stressor, and a stressor causes action. While I am not fearful of a terror attack today, and I am not fearful that I will be involved in the next terror attack when it comes, I am aware that there are people who want to murder my daughters because they don't cover their face, and I want to take reasonable steps to prevent that from happening.

Securing our borders is a reasonable step, just like locking your front door.

BTW - thank you for an intelligent post. Hope the wacko's stay away.

 

[Roadrunner]

Czerno - The Boston Bombings are somewhat related to our immigration problem. If I remember right, the brothers and/or some of their family came here legally, but then overstayed their visa's. Furthermore, they received enormous amounts of welfare while they were visitors here. This IS an immigration problem because we should ONLY be accepting immigrants who can add value to our nation, not simply be leeches.

Fear is a stressor, and a stressor causes action. While I am not fearful of a terror attack today, and I am not fearful that I will be involved in the next terror attack when it comes, I am aware that there are people who want to murder my daughters because they don't cover their face, and I want to take reasonable steps to prevent that from happening.

Securing our borders is a reasonable step, just like locking your front door.

BTW - thank you for an intelligent post. Hope the wacko's stay away.

Fear and caution are not the same thing.

Control of the border and keeping tabs on who goes where and why would have prevented the Boston attack.

It was PC to NOT screen Muslims traveling to war torn areas.

No way Boston Bomb Boy should have been allowed to travel as he was.

 

[RoshawnMarkwees]

We should be angry and kill terrorists instead of being fearful.

 

[CAPTCHATHIS]

Do you have a link on the foiled plot showing "Hezbola contracting with the Mexican drug cartels to get them into the US"?
I can't find anything.

 

[Boatswain2PA]

Czerno - The Boston Bombings are somewhat related to our immigration problem. If I remember right, the brothers and/or some of their family came here legally, but then overstayed their visa's. Furthermore, they received enormous amounts of welfare while they were visitors here. This IS an immigration problem because we should ONLY be accepting immigrants who can add value to our nation, not simply be leeches.

Fear is a stressor, and a stressor causes action. While I am not fearful of a terror attack today, and I am not fearful that I will be involved in the next terror attack when it comes, I am aware that there are people who want to murder my daughters because they don't cover their face, and I want to take reasonable steps to prevent that from happening.

Securing our borders is a reasonable step, just like locking your front door.

BTW - thank you for an intelligent post. Hope the wacko's stay away.

Fear and caution are not the same thing.

Control of the border and keeping tabs on who goes where and why would have prevented the Boston attack.

It was PC to NOT screen Muslims traveling to war torn areas.

No way Boston Bomb Boy should have been allowed to travel as he was.

I think we are on the same page, with some semantic differences. No need to be cautious about things that can't hurt you, so not much difference between "caution" and "fear" in that context.

Whaddayaknow, a civil discussion on USMESSAGEBOARD. Is Luddy and Dean blocked from this thread? lol

 

[Czernobog]

Czerno - The Boston Bombings are somewhat related to our immigration problem. If I remember right, the brothers and/or some of their family came here legally, but then overstayed their visa's. Furthermore, they received enormous amounts of welfare while they were visitors here. This IS an immigration problem because we should ONLY be accepting immigrants who can add value to our nation, not simply be leeches.

Two problems with your complaint. First, no bill currently being proposed by Republicans has any provision for increasing the penalties for overstaying your Visa. Furthermore, increasing security on the border does absolutely nothing to prevent visa overstays, and none of the legislation that is being proposed by Republicans includes increasing non-border ICE personnel that would be necessary to be more vigilant in visa overstays. Finally, standards for qualifying for public assistance is not regulated in any way by immigration. So, absolutely none of what you have brought up is anything more than a red herring that has absolutely nothing to do with the boder security question that Mr. Cotton repeatedly refers to.

Fear is a stressor, and a stressor causes action. While I am not fearful of a terror attack today, and I am not fearful that I will be involved in the next terror attack when it comes, I am aware that there are people who want to murder my daughters because they don't cover their face, and I want to take reasonable steps to prevent that from happening.

Securing our borders is a reasonable step, just like locking your front door.

BTW - thank you for an intelligent post. Hope the wacko's stay away.

I disagree. Fear does not cause "action". Almost invariably fear causes unnecessary, disproportionate reaction. You know, like the Patriot Act, drone program, and warrantless wiretaps?

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

"So, we should live in FEAR of Islam???"

No, of course not.

Of course, there are those on the right who seek to contrive such unwarranted fear for some perceived partisan gain, it's among the oldest Orwellian political tactics.

 

[DigitalDrifter]

We should be very concerned about Islam, and it's followers.
However, we should show no fear, nor should we change anything in our daily lives.

But make no mistake, Islam and it's fundamentalists are by far the single biggest threat to western culture and western inhabitants. As I have pointed out numerous times, western survival is dependent on limiting the growth of the Muslim population in western countries.
Muslims will not assimilate to western culture, they simply seek to force their way of life on others.

 

[Boatswain2PA]

Czerno - The Boston Bombings are somewhat related to our immigration problem. If I remember right, the brothers and/or some of their family came here legally, but then overstayed their visa's. Furthermore, they received enormous amounts of welfare while they were visitors here. This IS an immigration problem because we should ONLY be accepting immigrants who can add value to our nation, not simply be leeches.

Two problems with your complaint. First, no bill currently being proposed by Republicans has any provision for increasing the penalties for overstaying your Visa. Furthermore, increasing security on the border does absolutely nothing to prevent visa overstays, and none of the legislation that is being proposed by Republicans includes increasing non-border ICE personnel that would be necessary to be more vigilant in visa overstays. Finally, standards for qualifying for public assistance is not regulated in any way by immigration. So, absolutely none of what you have brought up is anything more than a red herring that has absolutely nothing to do with the boder security question that Mr. Cotton repeatedly refers to.

Fear is a stressor, and a stressor causes action. While I am not fearful of a terror attack today, and I am not fearful that I will be involved in the next terror attack when it comes, I am aware that there are people who want to murder my daughters because they don't cover their face, and I want to take reasonable steps to prevent that from happening.

Securing our borders is a reasonable step, just like locking your front door.

BTW - thank you for an intelligent post. Hope the wacko's stay away.

I disagree. Fear does not cause "action". Almost invariably fear causes unnecessary, disproportionate reaction. You know, like the Patriot Act, drone program, and warrantless wiretaps?

Security on the border, and enforcement in the interior, both are necessary parts of immigration reform. Will our politicians fix it? I doubt it since both parties are in the pockets of businesses who want the cheap labor.

Public assistance certainly SHOULD be tied to immigration. If you need welfare, you shouldn't be allowed to immigrate here.

Lastly, fear is a stressor, and stressor's are what make humans act. Fear does cause action, although untrained or overly emotional people often choose poor actions, such as much of the Patriot Act, in the face of fear.

 

[Czernobog]

Public assistance certainly SHOULD be tied to immigration. If you need welfare, you shouldn't be allowed to immigrate here.

So, only the rich, and powerful should be allowed to emigrate here? Okay. Just realize that that doesn't exactly square with the policy that we have prided ourselves on for over 150 years. You know, that whole, "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses..." thing? Kinda hard to reconcile that with your suggesting that only the well off should be allowed to immigrate here. Just sayin...

 

[Delta4Embassy]

I fear Christian zealots far more than Islamic ones. Number of Muslims in key government or authority positions is probably only a dozen nationwide. Number of Christians in power positions? Gulp!

 

[Conservative65]

I fear Christian zealots far more than Islamic ones. Number of Muslims in key government or authority positions is probably only a dozen nationwide. Number of Christians in power positions? Gulp!

When is the last time a Christian zealot flew planes into buildings, strapped bombs to their backs, and hid behind children?

 

[Czernobog]

I fear Christian zealots far more than Islamic ones. Number of Muslims in key government or authority positions is probably only a dozen nationwide. Number of Christians in power positions? Gulp!

When is the last time a Christian zealot flew planes into buildings, strapped bombs to their backs, and hid behind children?

On the other hand, does pissing our pants in fear prevent it from happening in the future? You see, I agree with what Roadrunner, and Digital Drifter said: we should be aware of the likely threats, and we should take precautions against those threats. We should act on credible intelligence to prevent ISIS from being able to attack us directly. However, to suggest that we should be fearful is takes us in exactly the wrong direction, and leads us to paranoia, and bad decision-making based on fear.

 

[Conservative65]

I fear Christian zealots far more than Islamic ones. Number of Muslims in key government or authority positions is probably only a dozen nationwide. Number of Christians in power positions? Gulp!

When is the last time a Christian zealot flew planes into buildings, strapped bombs to their backs, and hid behind children?

On the other hand, does pissing our pants in fear prevent it from happening in the future? You see, I agree with what Roadrunner, and Digital Drifter said: we should be aware of the likely threats, and we should take precautions against those threats. We should act on credible intelligence to prevent ISIS from being able to attack us directly. However, to suggest that we should be fearful is takes us in exactly the wrong direction, and leads us to paranoia, and bad decision-making based on fear.

The problem is too many equate taking precautions as a fearful pissing in our pants.

 

[Czernobog]

I fear Christian zealots far more than Islamic ones. Number of Muslims in key government or authority positions is probably only a dozen nationwide. Number of Christians in power positions? Gulp!

We're talking about two different things, here. You're talking about Christian zealots changing the laws of the nation, turning us into a Theocracy, Cotton was referring to the possibility of a 9/11 type attack from ISIS. The former will never happen, so long as we have a Constitution, and the will to enforce it. The latter? Well, while it is always a possibility, I have never allowed others to dictate my decisions through fear before, and I have no intention of starting now. There is a difference between awareness, and fear. I would encourage the former, not the latter.