So, we should live in FEAR of Islam???

[Czernobog]

I fear Christian zealots far more than Islamic ones. Number of Muslims in key government or authority positions is probably only a dozen nationwide. Number of Christians in power positions? Gulp!

When is the last time a Christian zealot flew planes into buildings, strapped bombs to their backs, and hid behind children?

On the other hand, does pissing our pants in fear prevent it from happening in the future? You see, I agree with what Roadrunner, and Digital Drifter said: we should be aware of the likely threats, and we should take precautions against those threats. We should act on credible intelligence to prevent ISIS from being able to attack us directly. However, to suggest that we should be fearful is takes us in exactly the wrong direction, and leads us to paranoia, and bad decision-making based on fear.

The problem is too many equate taking precautions as a fearful pissing in our pants.

No, the problem is when our representatives talk about being "fearful", instead of talking about being "prepared". That makes it difficult to distinguish between the two.

 

[DigitalDrifter]

I fear Christian zealots far more than Islamic ones. Number of Muslims in key government or authority positions is probably only a dozen nationwide. Number of Christians in power positions? Gulp!

If there were as many Muslims in authority positions as Christians in this country, you'd have a much bigger problem on your hand than you can imagine.
This country would pretty much be under Sharia Law.

 

[Boatswain2PA]

Public assistance certainly SHOULD be tied to immigration. If you need welfare, you shouldn't be allowed to immigrate here.

So, only the rich, and powerful should be allowed to emigrate here? Okay. Just realize that that doesn't exactly square with the policy that we have prided ourselves on for over 150 years. You know, that whole, "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses..." thing? Kinda hard to reconcile that with your suggesting that only the well off should be allowed to immigrate here. Just sayin...

Never said "well off" or "wealthy", just having skills that can support yourself andvyour family.

 

[Gracie]

Only if rioters and looters and stupid people decide to become extremist muslims. Otherwsie...nah.

 

[Czernobog]

Public assistance certainly SHOULD be tied to immigration. If you need welfare, you shouldn't be allowed to immigrate here.

So, only the rich, and powerful should be allowed to emigrate here? Okay. Just realize that that doesn't exactly square with the policy that we have prided ourselves on for over 150 years. You know, that whole, "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses..." thing? Kinda hard to reconcile that with your suggesting that only the well off should be allowed to immigrate here. Just sayin...

Never said "well off" or "wealthy", just having skills that can support yourself andvyour family.

Well, that's awfully vague, Boat. Since we seem to have a hard time placing proper value on skilled labour - hence the income inequality that is causing the continued rise in public assistance, even among the folks already here - how would suggest that we go about quantifying that requirement for immigration?

 

[Boatswain2PA]

Public assistance certainly SHOULD be tied to immigration. If you need welfare, you shouldn't be allowed to immigrate here.

So, only the rich, and powerful should be allowed to emigrate here? Okay. Just realize that that doesn't exactly square with the policy that we have prided ourselves on for over 150 years. You know, that whole, "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses..." thing? Kinda hard to reconcile that with your suggesting that only the well off should be allowed to immigrate here. Just sayin...

Never said "well off" or "wealthy", just having skills that can support yourself andvyour family.

Well, that's awfully vague, Boat. Since we seem to have a hard time placing proper value on skilled labour - hence the income inequality that is causing the continued rise in public assistance, even among the folks already here - how would suggest that we go about quantifying that requirement for immigration?

Dont have to quantify it. Simply deny immigrants welfare. Those who can support themselves & their families will still come, those who can't won't.

 

[Czernobog]

Public assistance certainly SHOULD be tied to immigration. If you need welfare, you shouldn't be allowed to immigrate here.

So, only the rich, and powerful should be allowed to emigrate here? Okay. Just realize that that doesn't exactly square with the policy that we have prided ourselves on for over 150 years. You know, that whole, "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses..." thing? Kinda hard to reconcile that with your suggesting that only the well off should be allowed to immigrate here. Just sayin...

Never said "well off" or "wealthy", just having skills that can support yourself andvyour family.

Well, that's awfully vague, Boat. Since we seem to have a hard time placing proper value on skilled labour - hence the income inequality that is causing the continued rise in public assistance, even among the folks already here - how would suggest that we go about quantifying that requirement for immigration?

Dont have to quantify it. Simply deny immigrants welfare. Those who can support themselves & their families will still come, those who can't won't.

Like I said, only the affluent. Kinda hard to reconcile that with "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses...". After all, I'm pretty sure the poor, huddled masses are rarely in a position to readily support their families straight out of the gate. But, hey! If that's your position, that's fine. Just be aware that it is in direct conflict with 150 years of a policy of welcoming anyone who wants to come here, with no limits on their income level.

 

[Boatswain2PA]

Yeah, the millions of Irish and Chinese who immigrated here were wealthy.

In reality, most immigrants of history were poor, but they came here to WORK in an environment where they could BECOME wealthier. They certainly didn't qualify for welfare. Now some come because they know they know they can get welfare.

 

[Katzndogz]

Public assistance certainly SHOULD be tied to immigration. If you need welfare, you shouldn't be allowed to immigrate here.

So, only the rich, and powerful should be allowed to emigrate here? Okay. Just realize that that doesn't exactly square with the policy that we have prided ourselves on for over 150 years. You know, that whole, "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses..." thing? Kinda hard to reconcile that with your suggesting that only the well off should be allowed to immigrate here. Just sayin...

Never said "well off" or "wealthy", just having skills that can support yourself andvyour family.

Well, that's awfully vague, Boat. Since we seem to have a hard time placing proper value on skilled labour - hence the income inequality that is causing the continued rise in public assistance, even among the folks already here - how would suggest that we go about quantifying that requirement for immigration?

Dont have to quantify it. Simply deny immigrants welfare. Those who can support themselves & their families will still come, those who can't won't.

Like I said, only the affluent. Kinda hard to reconcile that with "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses...". After all, I'm pretty sure the poor, huddled masses are rarely in a position to readily support their families straight out of the gate. But, hey! If that's your position, that's fine. Just be aware that it is in direct conflict with 150 years of a policy of welcoming anyone who wants to come here, with no limits on their income level.

When those words were written and that statue was put together immigrants who came here supported themselves or died in an alley. There was no welfare, no EBT, no medical care, no housing, no welcome centers. There was nothing. No safety net. Live or die on your own.

You should have known that.

 

[Czernobog]

Yeah, the millions of Irish and Chinese who immigrated here were wealthy.

In reality, most immigrants of history were poor, but they came here to WORK in an environment where they could BECOME wealthier. They certainly didn't qualify for welfare. Now some come because they know they know they can get welfare.

The Chinese? Not so much, as we didn't have a public welfare system. but the Irish/ You might wanna check your history, pal. They most certainly did qualify, and took advantage of, FDR's welfare programs.

Would you like to try that again?

 

[JQPublic1]

I'm a former army Ranger. I fear no man...well, except I do sleep with the light on sometimes on account of all the monsters hiding in my closet.

Fear the man in the mirror for he is the one that will ultimately do you in!

 

[Boatswain2PA]

Yeah, the millions of Irish and Chinese who immigrated here were wealthy.

In reality, most immigrants of history were poor, but they came here to WORK in an environment where they could BECOME wealthier. They certainly didn't qualify for welfare. Now some come because they know they know they can get welfare.

The Chinese? Not so much, as we didn't have a public welfare system. but the Irish/ You might wanna check your history, pal. They most certainly did qualify, and took advantage of, FDR's welfare programs.

Would you like to try that again?

The potatoe famine that drove so many dirt-poor Irish to America was almost a hundred years before FDR. They came to America for the opportunity to work, not the welfare.

 

[JQPublic1]

I fear Christian zealots far more than Islamic ones. Number of Muslims in key government or authority positions is probably only a dozen nationwide. Number of Christians in power positions? Gulp!

When is the last time a Christian zealot flew planes into buildings, strapped bombs to their backs, and hid behind children?

Christian zealots did something far worse:

 

[JQPublic1]

I fear Christian zealots far more than Islamic ones. Number of Muslims in key government or authority positions is probably only a dozen nationwide. Number of Christians in power positions? Gulp!

If there were as many Muslims in authority positions as Christians in this country, you'd have a much bigger problem on your hand than you can imagine.
This country would pretty much be under Sharia Law.

Sharia Law? Isn't that the equivalent of what you conservatives want with your Draconian fake Christian dogma.

 

[Czernobog]

Yeah, the millions of Irish and Chinese who immigrated here were wealthy.

In reality, most immigrants of history were poor, but they came here to WORK in an environment where they could BECOME wealthier. They certainly didn't qualify for welfare. Now some come because they know they know they can get welfare.

The Chinese? Not so much, as we didn't have a public welfare system. but the Irish/ You might wanna check your history, pal. They most certainly did qualify, and took advantage of, FDR's welfare programs.

Would you like to try that again?

The potatoe famine that drove so many dirt-poor Irish to America was almost a hundred years before FDR. They came to America for the opportunity to work, not the welfare.

Yet, the Irish kept coming during the depression, when there were no jobs, and we did, in fact, give them welfare, as we have with needy immigrants from the outset of the welfare system. You can pretend that never happened all you'd like, history says otherwise.

 

[Czernobog]

See, this is my problem with the Right's position on immigration. You guys act like no one ever immigrated to the US, and got public assistance before the "Black Guy" got into office. You act like his "amnesty" executive order is the worst possible action any President ever has taken. The fact is that while all of you scream about the "injustice" of offering "amnesty", or a path to citizenship, without ever admitting to the alternative - deporting 11 million immigrants. You guys don't want to do that any more than we do! You know full well what publicly advocating deporting 11 million immigrants would do to your ability to ever get a Latino vote again. But you also refuse to support any alternative to give those immigrants an opportunity to better themselves. So, what you actually advocate, although you won't say this out loud either, is the status quo - stay in the shadows, pick my damn fruit, and keep you mouths shut, like you're supposed to; like you always. have.

The status quo, regardless of how untenable that is - that is your ideological position. Sorry, the whole point of progress is to break the status quo.

 

[007]

Okay. So, I'm watching MtP, and Tom cotton is on. He is discussing, big surprise, his position on immigration (That seems to be the only thing politicos an talk about these days, as if nothing else is going on in the world, but that's another discussion...), and he brings up terrorism. When Chuck asked him if his rhetoric didn't amount to fear-monger, his response kinda surprised me.

"Well, the Islamic State is cutting heads off of Americans right now, and their leader has said they want to strike us here in the United States. That's something we should be fearful of,"

Really? I have to say, I am not particularly fearful of the "muslim-man" sneaking up from Mexico to cut my head off. The last several successful attacks on US soil - the guy who got his head cut off, the Boston Bombing - They share one common trait. These were not acts that "tighter borders" would have prevented. These were acts that were committed by American citizens, already here. Furthermore, the one instance that we know of with Hezbola contracting with the Mexican drug cartels to get them into the US was foiled. That's how we knew they were attempting to do this - because We. Caught. Them!

So, I'm having a hard time understanding why Senator (Representative?) Cotton would be suggesting that it is in our interest to return to the Bush philosophy of being afraid that the Boogie Man is coming, and he wears a turban...

For those who are going to ask, this was a live post, so, no, I don't have video feed of Mr. Cotton's comment. I transcribed it directly from the show. Hopefully there will be a video post of the comments, later today?

How IGNORANT and IMBECILIC do you people think you DARE BE without someone truly around you in real life finding out how STUPID you really are?

Hey... I have an idea... why don't you tell THIS GUY that hey... he has NOTHING TO WORRY ABOUT... it's not the BOOGIE MAN that's SAWING HIS FUCKING HEAD OFF... it's... a FAIRY TALE... JUST A DREAM... IT'S NOT REAL... sheeeeeeezuz... for the love of GOD man... get your fucking HEAD OUT OF YOUR ASS, and hope one of these ANIMALS doesn't SAW THE FUCKER OFF because you're so fucking STUPID...

 

[Boatswain2PA]

See, this is my problem with the Right's position on immigration. You guys act like no one ever immigrated to the US, and got public assistance before the "Black Guy" got into office. You act like his "amnesty" executive order is the worst possible action any President ever has taken. The fact is that while all of you scream about the "injustice" of offering "amnesty", or a path to citizenship, without ever admitting to the alternative - deporting 11 million immigrants. You guys don't want to do that any more than we do! You know full well what publicly advocating deporting 11 million immigrants would do to your ability to ever get a Latino vote again. But you also refuse to support any alternative to give those immigrants an opportunity to better themselves. So, what you actually advocate, although you won't say this out loud either, is the status quo - stay in the shadows, pick my damn fruit, and keep you mouths shut, like you're supposed to; like you always. have.

The status quo, regardless of how untenable that is - that is your ideological position. Sorry, the whole point of progress is to break the status quo.

I want to congratulate you.....you made it four pages before pulling out the race card. Surprisingly, you didn't infer I was a racist because "I didn't like immigrants", but you went straight to inferring that I am a racist because I blame everything on "the black guy" who is now president.

I dont care what skin color people have. I care about their actions. Repeat that to yourself ten times every hour for a week and it may get through your skull that conservatives are not racists.

As to our argument - my plan isn't "status quo", it is enforcing existing laws until they are changed. Stop them on the border and turn them back, dont give them bus tickets to cities across America, dont give them free medical care, dont give them representation in court, dont give them a path to amnesty....that is the current "status quo".

You have lost this argument time and again with yourlack of historical knowledge, so you doubled down by throwing the race card, and made it worse by misrepresenting my position and calling it "status quo" which it clearly isn't.

 

[Czernobog]

See, this is my problem with the Right's position on immigration. You guys act like no one ever immigrated to the US, and got public assistance before the "Black Guy" got into office. You act like his "amnesty" executive order is the worst possible action any President ever has taken. The fact is that while all of you scream about the "injustice" of offering "amnesty", or a path to citizenship, without ever admitting to the alternative - deporting 11 million immigrants. You guys don't want to do that any more than we do! You know full well what publicly advocating deporting 11 million immigrants would do to your ability to ever get a Latino vote again. But you also refuse to support any alternative to give those immigrants an opportunity to better themselves. So, what you actually advocate, although you won't say this out loud either, is the status quo - stay in the shadows, pick my damn fruit, and keep you mouths shut, like you're supposed to; like you always. have.

The status quo, regardless of how untenable that is - that is your ideological position. Sorry, the whole point of progress is to break the status quo.

I want to congratulate you.....you made it four pages before pulling out the race card. Surprisingly, you didn't infer I was a racist because "I didn't like immigrants", but you went straight to inferring that I am a racist because I blame everything on "the black guy" who is now president.

Believe it, or not, that wasn't really my intent there. Sorry. We'll leave that one alone, as this has not been, and should not be, a discussion about race. Bygones?

As to our argument - my plan isn't "status quo", it is enforcing existing laws until they are changed. Stop them on the border and turn them back, dont give them bus tickets to cities across America, dont give them free medical care, dont give them representation in court, dont give them a path to amnesty....that is the current "status quo"

I disagree with your premise. "path to citizenship " isn't the "status quo"; that's the problem. What you are describing is already happening. You get that net border crossings is zero, right? And has been for a while? Not letting anyone else across the border illegally hasn't been the problem for quite some time. The problem has been what to do with the 11 million undocumented immigrants already here. There are only three options:

1 - Do nothing. (Status Quo)

2 - Deportation

3 - path to Citizenship


Since you have vocally opposed path to citizenship, and you choose to simply stay silent on the question of deportation, one can only assume that you preferred position on the 11 million undocumented immigrants already here is to do nothing. The only concern you want addressed is keeping anyone new from getting here. You're looking to solve a problem that no longer exists. We've gotten pretty good at catching the border crossers.

 

[Czernobog]

Okay. So, I'm watching MtP, and Tom cotton is on. He is discussing, big surprise, his position on immigration (That seems to be the only thing politicos an talk about these days, as if nothing else is going on in the world, but that's another discussion...), and he brings up terrorism. When Chuck asked him if his rhetoric didn't amount to fear-monger, his response kinda surprised me.

"Well, the Islamic State is cutting heads off of Americans right now, and their leader has said they want to strike us here in the United States. That's something we should be fearful of,"

Really? I have to say, I am not particularly fearful of the "muslim-man" sneaking up from Mexico to cut my head off. The last several successful attacks on US soil - the guy who got his head cut off, the Boston Bombing - They share one common trait. These were not acts that "tighter borders" would have prevented. These were acts that were committed by American citizens, already here. Furthermore, the one instance that we know of with Hezbola contracting with the Mexican drug cartels to get them into the US was foiled. That's how we knew they were attempting to do this - because We. Caught. Them!

So, I'm having a hard time understanding why Senator (Representative?) Cotton would be suggesting that it is in our interest to return to the Bush philosophy of being afraid that the Boogie Man is coming, and he wears a turban...

For those who are going to ask, this was a live post, so, no, I don't have video feed of Mr. Cotton's comment. I transcribed it directly from the show. Hopefully there will be a video post of the comments, later today?

How IGNORANT and IMBECILIC do you people think you DARE BE without someone truly around you in real life finding out how STUPID you really are?

Hey... I have an idea... why don't you tell THIS GUY that hey... he has NOTHING TO WORRY ABOUT... it's not the BOOGIE MAN that's SAWING HIS FUCKING HEAD OFF... it's... a FAIRY TALE... JUST A DREAM... IT'S NOT REAL... sheeeeeeezuz... for the love of GOD man... get your fucking HEAD OUT OF YOUR ASS, and hope one of these ANIMALS doesn't SAW THE FUCKER OFF because you're so fucking STUPID...

...my what a shocking picture...i scered now. thanks ever so much. Incidentally, do you have a byline to go along with that pic, or is that just some mock up you found somewhere out on the net, that you could use to create shock, and awe?

Where did that happen, for instance? Charleston, SC? Trenton, NJ? New York City? Where, in the US, did this roving band of ISIS agents find a US military member to hold down, and threaten with a knife?

I don't know what kind of bed-wetters you're used to dealing with Bucko, but it's gonna take more than some staged photo to convince me that the ISIS Boogeymen are here in the States to cut my dick off.