Social Security Discussion

[Rshermr]

The portion I find both sad and comical is the "freely issues" part.. As tho there is no limit on the money that gets birthed by DEBT ISSUANCE.. And that's the only fraction of "freely issued" that has any bearing on reissuing SS debt obligations. Did ya get the part about every dollar on redemption of "trust funds" cost $2.50 to the taxpayers? I think that is key to starting to feel justifiable RAGE about the theft and deception that has been perpetrated upon you... Go ahead -- Let it out.. I can't hear you anyway..


We can argue about the balance in the REST of money supply some other day.

Yes, as the monopoly issuer of the currency, the US freely issues with the national unit of account - the US dollar.

We only issue 'debt' for legal reasons, not because it's an operational requirement. The existence of US pubic debt creates creates confusion. A monetarily sovereign country cannot run into debt problems.

At the end of the day, in order to obtain a flow of funds, we run deficits, which basically means the federal government credits private bank accounts more than it receives back in taxes - we call this 'spending'. The end result being an equal increase in bank deposits and bank reserves - all over at the FED. Banks are compelled to swap out any excess reserves for bonds, so that they can get a better rate of interest, and since we have a bond surplus, they'll be a demand for bonds.

As opposed to issuing bonds, which I've discussed a few times on here, the Federal Reserve could pay its target rate on all bank reserves. This would guarantee it hit its short-term interest rate target without the need to issue any public debt.

The SS Trust Fund is a different issue....

Unlimited expansion of credit is not spending. You are conflating the Fed operations with the operations of the US Government. In short, YOU HAVE NO CLUE WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT.

Jesus, you are embarrassing yourself. STOP for your own good. It is PAINFUL to see someone as ignorant as you make the statements you make.

 

[Rshermr]

Yes, as the monopoly issuer of the currency, the US freely issues with the national unit of account - the US dollar.

We only issue 'debt' for legal reasons, not because it's an operational requirement. The existence of US pubic debt creates creates confusion. A monetarily sovereign country cannot run into debt problems.

At the end of the day, in order to obtain a flow of funds, we run deficits, which basically means the federal government credits private bank accounts more than it receives back in taxes - we call this 'spending'. The end result being an equal increase in bank deposits and bank reserves - all over at the FED. Banks are compelled to swap out any excess reserves for bonds, so that they can get a better rate of interest, and since we have a bond surplus, they'll be a demand for bonds.

As opposed to issuing bonds, which I've discussed a few times on here, the Federal Reserve could pay its target rate on all bank reserves. This would guarantee it hit its short-term interest rate target without the need to issue any public debt.

The SS Trust Fund is a different issue....

Unlimited expansion of credit is not spending. You are conflating the Fed operations with the operations of the US Government. In short, YOU HAVE NO CLUE WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT.

I'm not the one that's confused here.

The FED is the monetary agent of Congress. It should be viewed as part of the government sector since it's the central bank of the US.

Yes, I'm sorry to break it to you, the federal government spends by having the FED credit private banks accounts. Do you need the A-Z on how this happens? We're talking base money, homie.

Maybe we have found ed's replacement???

 

[Kimura]

Unlimited expansion of credit is not spending. You are conflating the Fed operations with the operations of the US Government. In short, YOU HAVE NO CLUE WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT.

I'm not the one that's confused here.

The FED is the monetary agent of Congress. It should be viewed as part of the government sector since it's the central bank of the US.

Yes, I'm sorry to break it to you, the federal government spends by having the FED credit private banks accounts. Do you need the A-Z on how this happens? We're talking base money, homie.

Maybe we have found ed's replacement???

Nah, Ed is the man.

 

[Kimura]

#1) Did you not read my quotes from SSA about a page ago????

Neither the redemption of trust fund bonds, nor
interest paid on those bonds, provides any new net income to the Treasury,
which must finance redemptions and interest payments through
some combination of increased taxation, reductions in other government
spending, or additional borrowing from the public.

I look at daily Treasury statements. Again, it's not 'borrowing' in the conventional sense. Under a fiat system, the government has to spend before we can use the currency or there's any type of borrowing. Basically, spending operationally precedes borrowing and/or extinguishing any tax obligations through the Treasury.

Has been no increased taxation to cover the SS shortfall, no significant reduction in spending, and SSA is making redemption requests at the treasury.. Oh --- what was the 3rd Choice?? ADDITIONAL BORROWING FROM THE PUBLIC?? Of course, that's it. DEBT is being issued to cover the SS deficit.. You get to pay TWICE for every dollar that is "redeemed" by SSA.. Once when it was stolen from your FICA paycheck and now AGAIN when you get put in hock to China.. WITH INTEREST, which of course is ALSO paid by CURRENT taxpayers..

#2 Such a deal.. How lucky are we? That dollar stolen from your paycheck got spent on Viagra for the military. No DEBT was ever issued from the Treasury books. And there is nothing of value put into the SS Trust fund. No BONDS were ever bought. There are IOUs in a drawer. AND NEW DEBT must now be issued to cover the IOUs. Had they BOUGHT BONDS on the open market with the surplus --- the story would be different because the DEBT WOULD already be on the ledger. But they didn't.

Go back and read the description of how this scam REALLY OPERATES.. I quoted SSA and CBO. And you know how damn trustworthy those govt sources are....

Okay, let's say China decides to buy US paper. They have a reserve account over at the FED, correct? Well....this reserve account has dollars in it. Those dollars are used to buy US paper and had to have been spent into existence at some point by the federal government.

Again, it's not debt in the conventional sense, since it simply reflects the private sector's desire to save in US financial assets. It should be referred to as a national equity in its current incarnation.

Of course you spend money into existence. AND expand the money supply.. LATELY as you should know if you read the Treas. Docs, a LOT of our spending is on buying OUR OWN DEBT. THAT Creation of greenbacks must have been immaculate conception eh? Private sector is getting FULL UP with 2% Treasury bonds. So QE is designed to clear inventory that the private sector isn't ready to pony up for.

But when you spend money into existence and match it with a debt obligation, you are approving FUTURE spending as well. Since the Chinese expect to be paid back and you have to impress the credit agencies with your oh so responsible management of the currency.

I'm glad you brought up QE. I never thought it was a great idea.

Yeah, Treasury statements are very helpful, it's like the ultimate spreadsheet.

In terms of China, they own a decent chunk US Treasuries. Paying them back simply requires shifting funds from Treasuries ($$$$ deposits at the FED) back over to reserve accounts. This cannot be a financial burden at any point today, tomorrow, or thirty years down the road.

Don't even get me started on the ratings agencies. Oh gawd, what a bunch troglodytes. They're another bunch of geniuses that still think we're operating on a convertible currency.

 

[RKMBrown]

Yes, as the monopoly issuer of the currency, the US freely issues with the national unit of account - the US dollar.

We only issue 'debt' for legal reasons, not because it's an operational requirement. The existence of US pubic debt creates creates confusion. A monetarily sovereign country cannot run into debt problems.

At the end of the day, in order to obtain a flow of funds, we run deficits, which basically means the federal government credits private bank accounts more than it receives back in taxes - we call this 'spending'. The end result being an equal increase in bank deposits and bank reserves - all over at the FED. Banks are compelled to swap out any excess reserves for bonds, so that they can get a better rate of interest, and since we have a bond surplus, they'll be a demand for bonds.

As opposed to issuing bonds, which I've discussed a few times on here, the Federal Reserve could pay its target rate on all bank reserves. This would guarantee it hit its short-term interest rate target without the need to issue any public debt.

The SS Trust Fund is a different issue....

Unlimited expansion of credit is not spending. You are conflating the Fed operations with the operations of the US Government. In short, YOU HAVE NO CLUE WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT.

Jesus, you are embarrassing yourself. STOP for your own good. It is PAINFUL to see someone as ignorant as you make the statements you make.

You and your gay butt brother could not balance a checkbook to save your lives.

 

[oldfart]

Maybe we have found ed's replacement???

Did we lose Ed? Have you checked the outhouse?

 

[Politico]

RKM our economy is dependent upon debt to operate. Not this much but some.

And SS still sucks.

 

[SteadyMercury]

I forgot about Special Ed, what happened to him?

This RKMBrown person does remind me of Ed though in usage of poor corner case examples to attempt to prove points, and stating a lot of assumptions as if they were fact.

 

[Kimura]

Unlimited expansion of credit is not spending. You are conflating the Fed operations with the operations of the US Government. In short, YOU HAVE NO CLUE WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT.

Jesus, you are embarrassing yourself. STOP for your own good. It is PAINFUL to see someone as ignorant as you make the statements you make.

You and your gay butt brother could not balance a checkbook to save your lives.

The federal government doesn't operate like a household, nor does it need a checkbook. Households can’t issue their own dollars and legally require that people use those dollars to pay taxes. As currency users, our supply of dollars is always limited; the federal government's supply boils to policy decisions. National governments rarely run down their sock of debt under the current arrangement.

Besides 'borrowing' and 'taxing', the federal government has an unlimited capacity to create its national unit of account - dollars. When it 'taxes' and 'borrows', it removes income from the private sector. When it creates/spends dollars, past what it 'taxes' and 'borrows', it adds net financial assets to the private sector.

If you want to continue to insult me, feel free, but it doesn't change the fact you're ignorant about basic macroeconomics and monetary operations.

 

[editec]

People come at all these marco issues thinking logically, based on what they know about how money and debt work in THEIR LIVES

And that is why they get confused... the collective FANTASY that it takes to make a FIAT currency driven economy is simply so counterintuitive, and so completely UNLIKE the way the work of economic works for US and our families, that people cannot understand how it can possibly work.

You can really tell when people are confused if they tell you that the GOLD STANDARD would force governments to work within a budget. (why do they think that? Because they know nothing of economic history, that's why)

NOTHING can prevent our government or any other government from spending FAIT specie.

Not anymore, kiddies.

CAPITALISM as most of you think it is supposed to work is BROKEN,

It's been broken since before many of you were even born.

 

[Rshermr]

Jesus, you are embarrassing yourself. STOP for your own good. It is PAINFUL to see someone as ignorant as you make the statements you make.

You and your gay butt brother could not balance a checkbook to save your lives.

The federal government doesn't operate like a household, nor does it need a checkbook. Households can’t issue their own dollars and legally require that people use those dollars to pay taxes. As currency users, our supply of dollars is always limited; the federal government's supply boils to policy decisions. National governments rarely run down their sock of debt under the current arrangement.

Besides 'borrowing' and 'taxing', the federal government has an unlimited capacity to create its national unit of account - dollars. When it 'taxes' and 'borrows', it removes income from the private sector. When it creates/spends dollars, past what it 'taxes' and 'borrows', it adds net financial assets to the private sector.

If you want to continue to insult me, feel free, but it doesn't change the fact you're ignorant about basic macroeconomics and monetary operations.

Poor old RKW. He has no clue. Just likes to see his words in printed form on the board. Makes him feel all warm. If he would check, it is likely he just pissed himself again. Poor retarded RKW. Not his fault. Just plain bad luck.

 

[Rshermr]

Maybe we have found ed's replacement???

Did we lose Ed? Have you checked the outhouse?

Well, yeah. Maybe I should go back. I forgot to look down the hole. Both ed and rkm like it down there.

 

[RKMBrown]

RKM our economy is dependent upon debt to operate. Not this much but some.

And SS still sucks.

You may be conflating public held debt with government held debt. Two different things.

If I borrow money for my house or to start a business that's one thing. What govco is doing is completely different. Financing wars we don't need, financing handouts we should not be doing, donating money around the globe, spending money to rape our environment to grow corn for fuel, ... hundreds of duplicate government programs. Hell we learn today that we are paying the DNC to sign people up for subsidies for Obama Care. Teaching people how to cheat the American Taxpayer. Arming our DHS to kill Americans. Throwing lavish conferences on the taxpayer's dime.

While I'm sure that some extremely small portion of federal funds are wisely spent, I'm just as sure that 99% of it is just pissed away. That 17t is not the Fed float (aka expansion of credit exercised through the banking cartel), oh no, the 17t is money actually owed by the American tax payers. We spend more tax payer dollars just on interest than most countries our size spend on national defense.

And while SS sucks it's not nearly as bad as our discretionary spending.

 

[RKMBrown]

Jesus, you are embarrassing yourself. STOP for your own good. It is PAINFUL to see someone as ignorant as you make the statements you make.

You and your gay butt brother could not balance a checkbook to save your lives.

The federal government doesn't operate like a household, nor does it need a checkbook. Households can’t issue their own dollars and legally require that people use those dollars to pay taxes. As currency users, our supply of dollars is always limited; the federal government's supply boils to policy decisions. National governments rarely run down their sock of debt under the current arrangement.

Besides 'borrowing' and 'taxing', the federal government has an unlimited capacity to create its national unit of account - dollars. When it 'taxes' and 'borrows', it removes income from the private sector. When it creates/spends dollars, past what it 'taxes' and 'borrows', it adds net financial assets to the private sector.

If you want to continue to insult me, feel free, but it doesn't change the fact you're ignorant about basic macroeconomics and monetary operations.

Who said the fed operates like a household? Are you hearing voices? Yes they do use checks. Are you to stupid to realize even government agencies have to pay bills out of accounts?

Just because you may have some inkling of knowledge about the "possible" actions congress could take, does not mean you have even a remote smidgen of knowledge about how our system currently works. The fed is a completely independent organization. They merely report to congress through the Treasury. Our Treasury gets it's money by borrowing and taxing, not by commanding the fed to bail them out with a blank check backed by empty promises. The fed operations are independent of our national debt.

 

[Rshermr]

Yup, it IS ed. Wonder if he is wearing a disguise.

 

[RKMBrown]

People come at all these marco issues thinking logically, based on what they know about how money and debt work in THEIR LIVES

And that is why they get confused... the collective FANTASY that it takes to make a FIAT currency driven economy is simply so counterintuitive, and so completely UNLIKE the way the work of economic works for US and our families, that people cannot understand how it can possibly work.

You can really tell when people are confused if they tell you that the GOLD STANDARD would force governments to work within a budget. (why do they think that? Because they know nothing of economic history, that's why)

NOTHING can prevent our government or any other government from spending FAIT specie.

Not anymore, kiddies.

CAPITALISM as most of you think it is supposed to work is BROKEN,

It's been broken since before many of you were even born.

While I'm sure there are some people who don't understand our monetary system, you two are not talking to one of those people.

Capitalism isn't broken, our system of socialism and the pissing of the profits of capitalism away is what is broken.

Expansion of credit sucks, but then so do all of the other monetary systems. For at the heart of all monetary systems is management by greedy fallible humans...

 

[RKMBrown]

Yup, it IS ed. Wonder if he is wearing a disguise.

Who's ed? Shrug.

 

[Rshermr]

People come at all these marco issues thinking logically, based on what they know about how money and debt work in THEIR LIVES

And that is why they get confused... the collective FANTASY that it takes to make a FIAT currency driven economy is simply so counterintuitive, and so completely UNLIKE the way the work of economic works for US and our families, that people cannot understand how it can possibly work.

You can really tell when people are confused if they tell you that the GOLD STANDARD would force governments to work within a budget. (why do they think that? Because they know nothing of economic history, that's why)

NOTHING can prevent our government or any other government from spending FAIT specie.

Not anymore, kiddies.

CAPITALISM as most of you think it is supposed to work is BROKEN,

It's been broken since before many of you were even born.

While I'm sure there are some people who don't understand our monetary system, you two are not talking to one of those people.

Capitalism isn't broken, our system of socialism and the pissing of the profits of capitalism away is what is broken.

Expansion of credit sucks, but then so do all of the other monetary systems. For at the heart of all monetary systems is management by greedy fallible humans...

Yup. No question. It is indeed ed. Pretending he knows what capitalism is, but with no clue. Just like ed.
Or maybe RKM is just channeling ed.

 

[Kimura]

You may be conflating public held debt with government held debt. Two different things.

Net private financial wealth equals public debt down to the last penny.

 

[RKMBrown]

You may be conflating public held debt with government held debt. Two different things.

Net private financial wealth equals public debt down to the last penny.

Was there a point there?