Socialism and the purpose of government

[bripat9643]

There was no government as far as laws government the common people were concerned. There was no police force to arrest thieves and murderers. It was as close to anarchy as you can get.

No, you can get much closer to anarchy, you can have an actual lack of any authority.

My example was close enough to demonstrate the point. "It's not perfect anarchy" is not an argument. It's a whine.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

There was no government as far as laws government the common people were concerned. There was no police force to arrest thieves and murderers. It was as close to anarchy as you can get.

No, you can get much closer to anarchy, you can have an actual lack of any authority.

My example was close enough to demonstrate the point. "It's not perfect anarchy" is not an argument. It's a whine.

Your point was a joke, that is not anarchy, there was still rules and laws and an authority figure. None of those things exist in anarchy.

 

[bripat9643]

View attachment 259049

If you use U.S. dollars then you are consenting to pay taxes.

Otherwise you are free not to accept or offer U.S. dollars in your transactions.

Horseshit. The government forces you to use its phony money. It has outlawed all the other choices.

No it hasn't. There are towns that print their own currency. Super market coupons are a form of currency. Banks print teller's checks.There are lots and lots of forms of currency. You can print you own notes any time you want.

U.S. dollars are just a government note.

Pay your taxes with supermarket coupons, and see what the IRS says.

There are no towns that print their own currency. Teller's checks are not currency. Currency is currency, and nothing legal fits the definition other than federal reserve notes.

 

[Hum Dinger]

The real problem is the simplistic, binary thinking of the RWNJ's on this board.

They can only conceive of EXTREMES.

The idea of moderation, of a society that is a healthy hybrid of capitalism and socialism, is BEYOND THEIR COMPREHENSION.

In short, they are MORONS.

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

No body ever WANTS to pay a cent for anything. It doesn't matter how valuable the work is, people WANT to pay NOTHING.

You're ignoring the fact that they MUST pay if they WANT the services.

They only pay what they are FORCED to pay according to the law and the 'free market'. If left up to the free market alone, there would be huge incentive to pay people as little as possible - the more desperate people are the less they will accept.

You overlook the FACT that all employers are in competition for employees, and must out bid competitors for employees.

Why work for Company A at $20 per hour, when Company B pays $25?

It is you fundamental lack of understanding of basic economics that makes you a commie.

Employers have a vested interest in keeping people impoverished.

Really? Why?

They have a vested interest in keeping their overhead as possible. Market pressures force them to pay more or lose their employees.

The value of any goods or services MUST BE dictated by what people are willing to pay, based on their resources and need. You cannot expect to get paid $40 per hour to clean toilets when we have 22 million people willing to do it for next to nothing and pay no taxes.

You cannot shit in your hand and smear it all over a sheet of canvas and expect to sell it for $10,000 unless there are people willing to pay for shit-smeared canvas.

Why does basic econ escape your understanding?

.

 

[bripat9643]

There was no government as far as laws government the common people were concerned. There was no police force to arrest thieves and murderers. It was as close to anarchy as you can get.

No, you can get much closer to anarchy, you can have an actual lack of any authority.

My example was close enough to demonstrate the point. "It's not perfect anarchy" is not an argument. It's a whine.

Your point was a joke, that is not anarchy, there was still rules and laws and an authority figure. None of those things exist in anarchy.

It's close enough to demonstrate the point, moron. Petulance isn't an argument.

The King did not get involved in enforcing laws against murder and theft. In fact, there were no laws made by the crown against these personal offenses. The people had to resolve these issues themselves, exactly what would occur under total anarchy.

You simply refuse to admit that government isn't required to prevent murder, theft and assault.

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

The real problem is the simplistic, binary thinking of the RWNJ's on this board.

They can only conceive of EXTREMES.

The idea of moderation, of a society that is a healthy hybrid of capitalism and socialism, is BEYOND THEIR COMPREHENSION.

In short, they are MORONS.

What the fuck does all this commie bullshit mean?

Socialism is government ownership of the means of production and distribution. There can be no hybrid.

.

 

[Hum Dinger]

View attachment 259049

If you use U.S. dollars then you are consenting to pay taxes.

Otherwise you are free not to accept or offer U.S. dollars in your transactions.

Horseshit. The government forces you to use its phony money. It has outlawed all the other choices.

No it hasn't. There are towns that print their own currency. Super market coupons are a form of currency. Banks print teller's checks.There are lots and lots of forms of currency. You can print you own notes any time you want.

U.S. dollars are just a government note.

Pay your taxes with supermarket coupons, and see what the IRS says.

There are no towns that print their own currency. Teller's checks are not currency. Currency is currency, and nothing legal fits the definition other than federal reserve notes.

No. You can pay your food bill with supermarket coupons. You can pay anything with anything as long as the recipient is willing to accept.

You can trade in sea shells if you and the recipient agree.

And if you do your transactions in nothing but sea shells, I assure you that the government will not take any taxes from you whatsoever!

They'll probably try to give you some U.S. dollars instead. But no one says that you have to accept!

 

[bripat9643]

No body ever WANTS to pay a cent for anything. It doesn't matter how valuable the work is, people WANT to pay NOTHING.

You're ignoring the fact that they MUST pay if they WANT the services.

They only pay what they are FORCED to pay according to the law and the 'free market'. If left up to the free market alone, there would be huge incentive to pay people as little as possible - the more desperate people are the less they will accept.

You overlook the FACT that all employers are in competition for employees, and must out bid competitors for employees.

Why work for Company A at $20 per hour, when Company B pays $25?

It is you fundamental lack of understanding of basic economics that makes you a commie.

Employers have a vested interest in keeping people impoverished.

Really? Why?

They have a vested interest in keeping their overhead as possible. Market pressures force them to pay more or lose their employees.

The value of any goods or services MUST BE dictated by what people are willing to pay, based on their resources and need. You cannot expect to get paid $40 per hour to clean toilets when we have 22 million people willing to do it for next to nothing and pay no taxes.

You cannot shit in your hand and smear it all over a sheet of canvas and expect to sell it for $10,000 unless there are people willing to pay for shit-smeared canvas.

Why does basic econ escape your understanding?

.

Public schools are the reason.

 

[bripat9643]

The real problem is the simplistic, binary thinking of the RWNJ's on this board.

They can only conceive of EXTREMES.

The idea of moderation, of a society that is a healthy hybrid of capitalism and socialism, is BEYOND THEIR COMPREHENSION.

In short, they are MORONS.

The mixture idea is a con. It's how parasites justify their existence.

 

[Hum Dinger]

The real problem is the simplistic, binary thinking of the RWNJ's on this board.

They can only conceive of EXTREMES.

The idea of moderation, of a society that is a healthy hybrid of capitalism and socialism, is BEYOND THEIR COMPREHENSION.

In short, they are MORONS.

What the fuck does all this commie bullshit mean?

Socialism is government ownership of the means of production and distribution. There can be no hybrid.

.

You've just proven my point so well!

You are a simpleton.

You've been living in a hybrid capitalist/socialist you whole life, but your too stupid to realize it!

 

[Cecilie1200]

thats why the constitution is so important,,,

all we have to do is read it then apply it,,,

The Constitution has been a dead letter since at least Woodrow Wilson...Time to quit pretending that it has any magical powers to keep politicians and bureaucrats in their lanes.

View attachment 258799

You and Spooner both misunderstand. The Constitution itself isn't supposed to stop anything. The power to keep politicians and bureaucrats in their lanes has always resided in the people. The Constitution is supposed to be our set of instructions on how to accomplish it. If we refuse to follow those instructions and exercise that power and make them behave, then we can't blame the Constitution; we have to blame ourselves.

dont include me in that because after 30 yrs of voting I have not once voted for a dem or republican for this reason among others,,,

I always vote for someone who believes in following the laws and not violating the inherent freedom of the people. Nevertheless, we the people of the United States of America are all in this together. Standing aside and pointing fingers and saying, "Well, I wasn't the one who knocked a hole in the boat!" isn't going to stop us from going down with the ship.

The people ultimately have the power; the people have allowed that power to go unexercised. For good or ill, I am still a member of the people. Whether or not you wish to exclude yourself from that group is up to you.

Even if it didn't fix the hole in the boat, that wouldn't stop me from killing the guy who made the hole.

Granted, but that's not the point.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

It's close enough to demonstrate the point, moron. Petulance isn't an argument.

The King did not get involved in enforcing laws against murder and theft. In fact, there were no laws made by the crown against these personal offenses. The people had to resolve these issues themselves, exactly what would occur under total anarchy.

You simply refuse to admit that government isn't required to prevent murder, theft and assault.

and there was murder and there was theft and it more often than not went unpunished.

under anarchy why would I give a shit if someone killed you or took your shit?

 

[Hum Dinger]

Good day to all.

RWNJs - Please grow a Brain!

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

No. You can pay your food bill with supermarket coupons. You can pay anything with anything as long as the recipient is willing to accept.

Yes, so why are you telling me that using "anything" (FRN notes) subjects me to a government-run ponzi scheme?

And if you do your transactions in nothing but sea shells, I assure you that the government will not take any taxes from you whatsoever!

What part of "from whatever source derived" do you not understand?

All this time, all we had to do was trade in a different currency and we could have avoided all these taxes. Why didn't ANYBODY think of that?
.

 

[bripat9643]

View attachment 259049

If you use U.S. dollars then you are consenting to pay taxes.

Otherwise you are free not to accept or offer U.S. dollars in your transactions.

Horseshit. The government forces you to use its phony money. It has outlawed all the other choices.

No it hasn't. There are towns that print their own currency. Super market coupons are a form of currency. Banks print teller's checks.There are lots and lots of forms of currency. You can print you own notes any time you want.

U.S. dollars are just a government note.

Pay your taxes with supermarket coupons, and see what the IRS says.

There are no towns that print their own currency. Teller's checks are not currency. Currency is currency, and nothing legal fits the definition other than federal reserve notes.

No. You can pay your food bill with supermarket coupons. You can pay anything with anything as long as the recipient is willing to accept.

You can trade in sea shells if you and the recipient agree.

And if you do your transactions in nothing but sea shells, I assure you that the government will not take any taxes from you whatsoever!

They'll probably try to give you some U.S. dollars instead. But no one says that you have to accept!

No you can't, turd. You can't pay your income taxes with coupons. Federal reserve notes are the only thing the government accepts. Banks will only take federal reserve notes because the government forces them to. That means virtually ever other business is required to accept only federal reserve notes.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

The real problem is the simplistic, binary thinking of the RWNJ's on this board.

They can only conceive of EXTREMES.

The idea of moderation, of a society that is a healthy hybrid of capitalism and socialism, is BEYOND THEIR COMPREHENSION.

In short, they are MORONS.

What the fuck does all this commie bullshit mean?

Socialism is government ownership of the means of production and distribution. There can be no hybrid.

.

No, communism is government ownership of the means of production and distribution

Socialism is community ownership of the means of production and distribution.

With socialism no government is needed, if the people are willing.

 

[Cecilie1200]

thats why the constitution is so important,,,

all we have to do is read it then apply it,,,

The Constitution has been a dead letter since at least Woodrow Wilson...Time to quit pretending that it has any magical powers to keep politicians and bureaucrats in their lanes.

View attachment 258799

You and Spooner both misunderstand. The Constitution itself isn't supposed to stop anything. The power to keep politicians and bureaucrats in their lanes has always resided in the people. The Constitution is supposed to be our set of instructions on how to accomplish it. If we refuse to follow those instructions and exercise that power and make them behave, then we can't blame the Constitution; we have to blame ourselves.

dont include me in that because after 30 yrs of voting I have not once voted for a dem or republican for this reason among others,,,

I always vote for someone who believes in following the laws and not violating the inherent freedom of the people. Nevertheless, we the people of the United States of America are all in this together. Standing aside and pointing fingers and saying, "Well, I wasn't the one who knocked a hole in the boat!" isn't going to stop us from going down with the ship.

The people ultimately have the power; the people have allowed that power to go unexercised. For good or ill, I am still a member of the people. Whether or not you wish to exclude yourself from that group is up to you.

and at no time have I ever sat back and just pointed fingers,,,my whole life I have been not just screaming from the roof tops that we are being played by the dem and repube partys but trying to show and explain how and why,,,and what the solution is,,,which is why I keep bringing up the constitution

its the true kool-aid drinkers thats the problem,,they just want to hate the other guys and ignore the reality of it all

Wow, you have wandered WAYYYY down the tangent of "Not my fault! Blame them!"

Whenever you're done being defensive and word-parsing, could we return to the ACTUAL point I was making, which is that the Constitution is not at fault here, and it's incorrect to say that it either authorized this mess, or "failed to stop it"?

 

[bripat9643]

It's close enough to demonstrate the point, moron. Petulance isn't an argument.

The King did not get involved in enforcing laws against murder and theft. In fact, there were no laws made by the crown against these personal offenses. The people had to resolve these issues themselves, exactly what would occur under total anarchy.

You simply refuse to admit that government isn't required to prevent murder, theft and assault.

and there was murder and there was theft and it more often than not went unpunished.

under anarchy why would I give a shit if someone killed you or took your shit?

You mean, just like there is today with massive government and millions of laws?

If you want to know how it worked, then read the links I posted. It's too complex for me to explain it in a single post.

 

[bripat9643]

The real problem is the simplistic, binary thinking of the RWNJ's on this board.

They can only conceive of EXTREMES.

The idea of moderation, of a society that is a healthy hybrid of capitalism and socialism, is BEYOND THEIR COMPREHENSION.

In short, they are MORONS.

What the fuck does all this commie bullshit mean?

Socialism is government ownership of the means of production and distribution. There can be no hybrid.

.

No, communism is government ownership of the means of production and distribution

Socialism is community ownership of the means of production and distribution.

With socialism no government is needed, if the people are willing.

In practical terms, there is no distinction between the two. The community can't control anything (own it) without government. The claim that it can is a fantasy.