Socialized medicine does not work...

[Andylusion]

People should take care of their own shit, and not depend on the federal government because it gives the federal government power and the federal government is all about control.

not really. I want my tax dollars to go on health. It is my insurance policy. My wife had an ankle problem. She could get it done privately for $10,000 or go on a public waiting list for 9 months. She went on the waiting list. Do I feel guilty? Nope, those public hospitals are paid for by my tax dollars. That is my insurance policy right there.

Yeah, I've heard this too. Canadians have come to a resigned acceptance of what to an American, is insane.

Waiting 9 months? For an ankle problem? Are you crazy? I actually know a Canadian that lives in the US, and was shocked.... SHOCKED... that he could see a specialist in the same week.

I was watching a video, where they talked to some lady who waited 3 years for knee surgery, and couldn't walk.

This is 'good' health care in your world? Apparently the only difference between good and bad care, is whether you pay for it... not whether it actually works well.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

It can't work, because the deadbeats will always abuse the system every time…

Where is socialized medicine not working?

Everywhere it's been tried

Tried and works in UK, NZ, Australia, Canada, Finland, Netherlands, Belgium, Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Iceland....

What are the tax rates in those countries?

I have an exchange student from Sweden. She told me that over 60% of her mother's pay as a flight instructor for Saab is taken in taxes.

 

[Dr Grump]

He was an evil piece of shit... and socialism/communism was/is a joke

So was Batista and yet the US had no problems supporting him

 

[NYcarbineer]

OK, so no one here can tell us where healthcare that is not socialized at all works better than socialized medicine.

I say that's case closed.

 

[Andylusion]

It can't work, because the deadbeats will always abuse the system every time…

We are already paying for the deadbeats...in the most expensive forms of health care there is.... like thru the emergency rooms.

Why not try to find a way to help out the rest of us, on our costs?

I don't understand this logic.

According to you, we already pay for deadbeats through the Emergency room.

Right? That's your argument, correct?

Well..... if we have government funded health care...... we'll still be paying for deadbeats through Emergency care.

How is one, better than the other, when both end up with us paying for it?

If we already have a socialized system... which is what you claimed... how is socializing it more a benefit?

Because it's not entirely true, is it? If we socialize it, millions more will go to the ER, because they knew they won't get a bill. I went to the ER years ago. I got a bill. I paid the bill. It was expensive, but I got great quality care, so I didn't mind paying it.

If you socialize care, heck no, I'm not paying a dime more. YOU will pay my bills. And Medicare is already going broke as it is now. Ready to pay 20% more in taxes? Hope you plan to downsize your home, car, and life style.

 

[Dr Grump]

so doctors, nurses, the janitors, food prep people, all of those that develop, build, sell and maintain the equipment should all work for free? hospitals should never upgrade in order to keep up with technology?
interesting

Who says they should work for free? Not I.

 

[Dr Grump]

How did your wife feel about waiting 9 months when in the US in could have been done in a few days?

A pain in the butt, but at the end of the day she could have had it done in a matter of days. As I said, the health care industry is weird down here. Have the stuff isn't covered...

 

[JQPublic1]

It can't work, because the deadbeats will always abuse the system every time…

BS, people living in countries with socialized medicine live just as long or longer than people do here!

 

[Dr Grump]

It can't work, because the deadbeats will always abuse the system every time…

Where is socialized medicine not working?

Everywhere it's been tried

Tried and works in UK, NZ, Australia, Canada, Finland, Netherlands, Belgium, Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Iceland....

What are the tax rates in those countries?

I have an exchange student from Sweden. She told me that over 60% of her mother's pay as a flight instructor for Saab is taken in taxes.

I think you'll find that includes the sales tax and all the taxes we pay for indirectly. Aussie tax is not too bad. Does get a bit steep for the high earners IMO. I think it is about 47% over $180,000 that includes a 2% medicare surcharge. The highest personal rate in NZ is 33 % for incomes over $70,000

 

[Care4all]

It can't work, because the deadbeats will always abuse the system every time…

We are already paying for the deadbeats...in the most expensive forms of health care there is.... like thru the emergency rooms.

Why not try to find a way to help out the rest of us, on our costs?

I don't understand this logic.

According to you, we already pay for deadbeats through the Emergency room.

Right? That's your argument, correct?

Well..... if we have government funded health care...... we'll still be paying for deadbeats through Emergency care.

How is one, better than the other, when both end up with us paying for it?

If we already have a socialized system... which is what you claimed... how is socializing it more a benefit?

Because it's not entirely true, is it? If we socialize it, millions more will go to the ER, because they knew they won't get a bill. I went to the ER years ago. I got a bill. I paid the bill. It was expensive, but I got great quality care, so I didn't mind paying it.

If you socialize care, heck no, I'm not paying a dime more. YOU will pay my bills. And Medicare is already going broke as it is now. Ready to pay 20% more in taxes? Hope you plan to downsize your home, car, and life style.

Everyone, being on something like Medicare, where you can see your choice of Doctors and go to your choice of medical facilities including specialty services like Cancer institutes and the gvt pays 80% of the bill and you pay 20%, cuts out about 30% of the cost of health care for everyone.... with private Insurance being replaced by Medicare Insurance..... if we all paid a payroll tax and NOT our health care insurance premium each month, it would go a lot farther with an insurance plan like Medicare for a lot less money...even with the payroll tax applying to employers matching it, it would be less than they are spending now to supply it as a benefit.

Cutting out the middle man, does not affect any money going towards R & D and medical advancement....it simply cuts out the money making paper pushers imo.

 

[JQPublic1]

so doctors, nurses, the janitors, food prep people, all of those that develop, build, sell and maintain the equipment should all work for free? hospitals should never upgrade in order to keep up with technology?
interesting

Who says they should work for free? Not I.

I agree. Federalize the medical industry and control wages like those in military hospitals. The savings would be astronomical since middle men and useless CEOS wouldn't exist. That would mean more money for research and development.

 

[Mr Natural]

I broke my ankle hiking in Nova Scotia a while ago.

Went to a hospital and got fixed up in under two hours. On the way out, they reluctantly gave me a bill for $125 because I was not a citizen.

I wonder what it would have cost here in the states.

 

[Dr Grump]

What I will say in the defense of the US system is that the do a shit load of R&D compared to a lot of other countries...

 

[Andylusion]

We have the best healthcare money can buy...our cure rates would be even higher, if everyone could afford the country's best care or any care at all...those who can't, end up with stage 3 or 4 cancer before even diagnosed, and have less chances of survival.

This is another one of those bonkers claims. I don't know where you get this idea from.

Do you think... that if a person shows up at a hospital with cancer, and then dies, that the hospital says "Ok wait... he only had $15,000 a year income... his death doesn't count"?

What's my point? Survival rate for cancers, or any other illness.... include.... EVERYONE. Meaning, EVERYONE. Which includes EVERYONE. Rich, Poor, Black, White, Male, Female.... EVERYONE.

They do not exclude people from the cancer survival statistics, or any other survival statistics. Never been to a hospital yet where they walked around "Time to count the dead. Wait that guys black. Oh that ones a woman. Hey that guy was poor. Wow no one died today at all! Amazing!"

So when you look at survival statistics, those statistics include ***<EVERYONE>***

Meaning.... statistically speaking, you have a better chance of surviving a life threatening illness in the US, more than any other place on the planet. When you say "if we had a better system, our survival rates would be better", that's hard to buy given they are already best in the world.

I've even read where some hospitals include illegal immigrants in survival statistics. So we're talking best system in the world, for even people who are not citizens.

 

[Andylusion]

I broke my ankle hiking in Nova Scotia a while ago.

Went to a hospital and got fixed up in under two hours. On the way out, they reluctantly gave me a bill for $125 because I was not a citizen.

I wonder what it would have cost here in the states.

You are not paying the taxes of Canada. If you lived in Canada you would be paying tens of thousands to pay for those hospitals.

You are comparing upfront cost, to a massive life long tax bill? Not comparable.

 

[Andylusion]

It can't work, because the deadbeats will always abuse the system every time…

We are already paying for the deadbeats...in the most expensive forms of health care there is.... like thru the emergency rooms.

Why not try to find a way to help out the rest of us, on our costs?

I don't understand this logic.

According to you, we already pay for deadbeats through the Emergency room.

Right? That's your argument, correct?

Well..... if we have government funded health care...... we'll still be paying for deadbeats through Emergency care.

How is one, better than the other, when both end up with us paying for it?

If we already have a socialized system... which is what you claimed... how is socializing it more a benefit?

Because it's not entirely true, is it? If we socialize it, millions more will go to the ER, because they knew they won't get a bill. I went to the ER years ago. I got a bill. I paid the bill. It was expensive, but I got great quality care, so I didn't mind paying it.

If you socialize care, heck no, I'm not paying a dime more. YOU will pay my bills. And Medicare is already going broke as it is now. Ready to pay 20% more in taxes? Hope you plan to downsize your home, car, and life style.

Everyone, being on something like Medicare, where you can see your choice of Doctors and go to your choice of medical facilities including specialty services like Cancer institutes and the gvt pays 80% of the bill and you pay 20%, cuts out about 30% of the cost of health care for everyone.... with private Insurance being replaced by Medicare Insurance..... if we all paid a payroll tax and NOT our health care insurance premium each month, it would go a lot farther with an insurance plan like Medicare for a lot less money...even with the payroll tax applying to employers matching it, it would be less than they are spending now to supply it as a benefit.

Cutting out the middle man, does not affect any money going towards R & D and medical advancement....it simply cuts out the money making paper pushers imo.

First off, most of the countries with decent health care, also have private insurance.

The idea that we can have one system the replaces insurance, is a pipe dream. That's not how it happens around the world.

Second, Medicare right now doesn't pay the cost of care. Meaning, that if it costs the hospital $1,000 to treat you, Medicare often pays just $800.

So how are hospitals staying open? They charge private patients, like YOU, $1,200 to cover the cost of the Medicare patient.

If Medicare was expanded to everyone, what would happen? One of two things: Hospitals and doctors would start refusing to accept medicare patients. Or they would close.

Why the Mayo Clinic is refusing to see Medicare patients

Ironically this doctor said specifically that Medicare pays 20% less... I just estimated.

See, if you expand medicare to everyone, there won't be any private patients that hospitals can cost shift to. So either the hospital will close, or they'll have to cut services, and ration treatment.

Or..... we can jack up taxes, which of course will cost you more than any insurance premium ever did. I would estimate about a 12% tax increase on all citizens. That would be $2,400 a year on those making $20K, which is more than I have ever paid for insurance.

 

[LogikAndReazon]

Nonsense.....

It works fine if you have zero concerns about costs , expenses , or financial realities.......

 

[Rustic]

It can't work, because the deadbeats will always abuse the system every time…

It works for me, here in Canada, or more specifically, in Manitoba.

I had no problem to find a family doctor when we moved here. I never had any trouble getting an appointment with him. I never had to wait at a lab, for a blood test, x-ray or for an MRI. I had no problem going to a specialist, when referred to one by my family doctor. I pay for my prescription, which is quite a bit less in Canada than - as I hear - would be in the States. If my income would be less I would qualify for them, having reached deductible.

I am 78 years old,with the accompanying aches and pains, yet I never suffered from lack of medical attention.

Mind you, I never go to see a doctor with a sniffle, a hangnail or paper cut.

Responsibly used, socialized medicine is not the ultimate evil described by the rabid right. Basically it is much like American Medicare with qualifying age at birth, rather than 65.

According to most Americans Medicare is OK. So, what's the problem?

Like millions people just like me have no right to healthcare… But I have the right to earn my healthcare.

 

[FJO]

It can't work, because the deadbeats will always abuse the system every time…

It works for me, here in Canada, or more specifically, in Manitoba.

I had no problem to find a family doctor when we moved here. I never had any trouble getting an appointment with him. I never had to wait at a lab, for a blood test, x-ray or for an MRI. I had no problem going to a specialist, when referred to one by my family doctor. I pay for my prescription, which is quite a bit less in Canada than - as I hear - would be in the States. If my income would be less I would qualify for them, having reached deductible.

I am 78 years old,with the accompanying aches and pains, yet I never suffered from lack of medical attention.

Mind you, I never go to see a doctor with a sniffle, a hangnail or paper cut.

Responsibly used, socialized medicine is not the ultimate evil described by the rabid right. Basically it is much like American Medicare with qualifying age at birth, rather than 65.

According to most Americans Medicare is OK. So, what's the problem?

Like millions people just like me have no right to healthcare… But I have the right to earn my healthcare.

Your Constitution gives you the right to pursue happiness. What can make you more happy than good health?

In Canada we have a right to health care, and we have a right to seek and earn BETTER health care if we are not happy with the one we have.

That is like that in all Western countries, if I am not mistaken.

 

[Maryland Patriot]

so doctors, nurses, the janitors, food prep people, all of those that develop, build, sell and maintain the equipment should all work for free? hospitals should never upgrade in order to keep up with technology?
interesting

Who says they should work for free? Not I.

"A 2014 Moody's survey of 448 U.S. hospitals, for example, found that the average median operatingmargin fell to 2.2 percent while expenses increased at an annual rate of 4.6 percent"

I dont think a 2% profit margin is really excessive when you consider the amount that they have to spend out of that purchasing the latest and greatest piece fo equipment that might just save your life.