Solar Energy

[Toddsterpatriot]

Solar panels work off of solar radiation, not just a sunny day...

Strangely enough, their output dips when it's cloudy.

How Solar Panels Work on Cloudy Days | SunPower Solar Blog

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Due to the advances in batteries/power cells/ gen. energy storage solar power has become more efficient. There is already an Island fully operating on solar power. Does Solar energy show promise in keeping cities operational? What other useful applications can solar power bring to the table? Is it cost-effective? Many companies have their own ideas like solar-powered planes and cars. Does solar transportation seem like a good idea?

LUNA RING, Solar Power Generation on the Moon | Topics | Shimizu Corporation (shimz.co.jp)

Is this idea too outrageous? Would something like this be beneficial in the long run? Would you ever support something like this? Are there any other theories you have seen or came up with that utilize solar energy?

it s become efficient BUT it still isn't efficient enough.

Compared to what? Imported diesel, oil, or coal? There are now several ways of storing electrical energy. And solar is getting less costly with every year. As is wind. In the meantime, natural gas and nuclear are ever more costly. You don't need uranium, waste storage, pipeline, nor fracking for solar and wind.

In the meantime, natural gas and nuclear are ever more costly.

View attachment 443917

By "ever more costly" did you mean that natural gas is cheaper than it was in 1982?

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/fredgraph.png?g=A35N

View attachment 443920

Or that uranium is less than half the price it was 10 years ago?

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/fredgraph.png?g=A35J

Kind of ignoring the costs of installing pipelines and cleaning up after pipeline explosions, aren't you? And then there is the problem of what to do with all that hot nuclear waste. And there is a reason that no insurance company will even consider insuring a nuke plant.

Kind of ignoring the costs of installing pipelines and cleaning up after pipeline explosions, aren't you?

Actually, I'm not.

Was that what you needed to make your silly "ever more costly" claim correct? Explosions? DURR.

And then there is the problem of what to do with all that hot nuclear waste.

You mean like store it on site........like we've done for decades?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Would you support small amounts of solar generation in Chicago?

If individuals want to overpay to install less reliable energy, they should be allowed.

Running street lights or even parts of the railway?

No. Silly idea in Chicago.

No one really talks about small things like that even though they have a cost and can make a nice change to the budget of cities.

It would increase costs and only benefit those connected to political insiders.

Cost is a major factor in any energy generation. So what is the relative cost of generation;
View attachment 443734

When you're still paying for the nat gas plant or the nuke plant, running at lower output, how much is the real cost of the wind or solar?

The findings show that retiring 74 percent of American coal power plants and replacing them with wind or solar plants would provide an immediate saving to utilities. About 44 percent of that coal power is substantially at-risk, that is it could be replaced by renewables that are at least 25 percent cheaper.Mar 25, 2019

Shutting Down Almost Every Coal Plant and Swapping For Renewables Would Save Money, Report Finds

Coal is dying in the U.S. Perhaps you’ve heard the reports. But even those reports don’t seem to capture how much of a dead man walking the dirtiest fossil fuel is.

earther.gizmodo.com

.

And nuclear is next, then natural gas.

retiring 74 percent of American coal power plants and replacing them with wind or solar plants would provide an immediate saving to utilities.

Retiring a fully amortized plant and replacing it with an expensive new plant with intermittent output would provide "an immediate saving to utilities"?

That's funny.

Is that why power is so cheap in California? Because of all their cheap wind and solar?

When you have as high a demand for energy as California does, the grid to serve that demand is rather expensive. When you are shipping wind and hydro power from two states away, you are paying for a lot of transmission loss. Even with the huge DC line going to San Diego.

When you have as high a demand for energy as California does, the grid to serve that demand is rather expensive.

I guess, in that case, removing reliable, cheap power generation and adding unreliable, more expensive generation makes even less sense than in a lower demand state.

And that is exactly why most of the new generation coming online is renewable.

Because idiots in California like to pay more? LOL!

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

You don't need uranium, waste storage, pipeline, nor fracking for solar and wind.

You do.....if you don't want the grid to crash every time a cloud blocks the Sun or the wind slows.

Of course this is the kind of nonsense one would expect from you. This is one solution;

That is awesome!!!!

How many of those trailers would we need in Chicago to cover a week of snowy weather
in January?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

You don't need uranium, waste storage, pipeline, nor fracking for solar and wind.

You do.....if you don't want the grid to crash every time a cloud blocks the Sun or the wind slows.

And another solution;

Your solution includes gas generators?

But you said we didn't need (gas) pipelines or (gas) fracking.

I guess you didn't believe your own claim.....or didn't watch the video. LOL!

 

[Old Rocks]

Due to the advances in batteries/power cells/ gen. energy storage solar power has become more efficient. There is already an Island fully operating on solar power. Does Solar energy show promise in keeping cities operational? What other useful applications can solar power bring to the table? Is it cost-effective? Many companies have their own ideas like solar-powered planes and cars. Does solar transportation seem like a good idea?

LUNA RING, Solar Power Generation on the Moon | Topics | Shimizu Corporation (shimz.co.jp)

Is this idea too outrageous? Would something like this be beneficial in the long run? Would you ever support something like this? Are there any other theories you have seen or came up with that utilize solar energy?

it s become efficient BUT it still isn't efficient enough.

Compared to what? Imported diesel, oil, or coal? There are now several ways of storing electrical energy. And solar is getting less costly with every year. As is wind. In the meantime, natural gas and nuclear are ever more costly. You don't need uranium, waste storage, pipeline, nor fracking for solar and wind.

In the meantime, natural gas and nuclear are ever more costly.

View attachment 443917

By "ever more costly" did you mean that natural gas is cheaper than it was in 1982?

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/fredgraph.png?g=A35N

View attachment 443920

Or that uranium is less than half the price it was 10 years ago?

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/fredgraph.png?g=A35J

Kind of ignoring the costs of installing pipelines and cleaning up after pipeline explosions, aren't you? And then there is the problem of what to do with all that hot nuclear waste. And there is a reason that no insurance company will even consider insuring a nuke plant.

Kind of ignoring the costs of installing pipelines and cleaning up after pipeline explosions, aren't you?

Actually, I'm not.

Was that what you needed to make your silly "ever more costly" claim correct? Explosions? DURR.

And then there is the problem of what to do with all that hot nuclear waste.

You mean like store it on site........like we've done for decades?

We sure as hell have stored it onsite for decades, and now it is contaminating the ground water and that water is moving toward the Columbia River.

Hanford’s Contamination Expected to Grow From Unacceptable Levels Today to Incredibly Unacceptable Levels in One Hundred Years and Thousands of Years… 10x Worse if USDOE uses Hanford as a National Radioactive Waste Dump

https://www.hanford.gov/files.cfm/HOA.pdf

 

[Old Rocks]

You don't need uranium, waste storage, pipeline, nor fracking for solar and wind.

You do.....if you don't want the grid to crash every time a cloud blocks the Sun or the wind slows.

Of course this is the kind of nonsense one would expect from you. This is one solution;

That is awesome!!!!

How many of those trailers would we need in Chicago to cover a week of snowy weather
in January?

I see. So it is not windy in Chicago or any of the states to the west or south of Chicago in January. LOL

 

[Pythagoras]

Solar panels work off of solar radiation, not just a sunny day...

Strangely enough, their output dips when it's cloudy.

View attachment 443950

How Solar Panels Work on Cloudy Days | SunPower Solar Blog

It can dip but it isn't solely based on just direct light it has viability with general solar radiation as well.

Solar Radiation Basics | Department of Energy

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Due to the advances in batteries/power cells/ gen. energy storage solar power has become more efficient. There is already an Island fully operating on solar power. Does Solar energy show promise in keeping cities operational? What other useful applications can solar power bring to the table? Is it cost-effective? Many companies have their own ideas like solar-powered planes and cars. Does solar transportation seem like a good idea?

LUNA RING, Solar Power Generation on the Moon | Topics | Shimizu Corporation (shimz.co.jp)

Is this idea too outrageous? Would something like this be beneficial in the long run? Would you ever support something like this? Are there any other theories you have seen or came up with that utilize solar energy?

it s become efficient BUT it still isn't efficient enough.

Compared to what? Imported diesel, oil, or coal? There are now several ways of storing electrical energy. And solar is getting less costly with every year. As is wind. In the meantime, natural gas and nuclear are ever more costly. You don't need uranium, waste storage, pipeline, nor fracking for solar and wind.

In the meantime, natural gas and nuclear are ever more costly.

View attachment 443917

By "ever more costly" did you mean that natural gas is cheaper than it was in 1982?

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/fredgraph.png?g=A35N

View attachment 443920

Or that uranium is less than half the price it was 10 years ago?

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/fredgraph.png?g=A35J

Kind of ignoring the costs of installing pipelines and cleaning up after pipeline explosions, aren't you? And then there is the problem of what to do with all that hot nuclear waste. And there is a reason that no insurance company will even consider insuring a nuke plant.

Kind of ignoring the costs of installing pipelines and cleaning up after pipeline explosions, aren't you?

Actually, I'm not.

Was that what you needed to make your silly "ever more costly" claim correct? Explosions? DURR.

And then there is the problem of what to do with all that hot nuclear waste.

You mean like store it on site........like we've done for decades?

We sure as hell have stored it onsite for decades, and now it is contaminating the ground water and that water is moving toward the Columbia River.

Hanford’s Contamination Expected to Grow From Unacceptable Levels Today to Incredibly Unacceptable Levels in One Hundred Years and Thousands of Years… 10x Worse if USDOE uses Hanford as a National Radioactive Waste Dump

https://www.hanford.gov/files.cfm/HOA.pdf

We sure as hell have stored it onsite for decades, and now it is contaminating the ground water and that water is moving toward the Columbia River.

Yeah, the government did an awful job.

Is that helping your "ever more costly" claim?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

You don't need uranium, waste storage, pipeline, nor fracking for solar and wind.

You do.....if you don't want the grid to crash every time a cloud blocks the Sun or the wind slows.

Of course this is the kind of nonsense one would expect from you. This is one solution;

That is awesome!!!!

How many of those trailers would we need in Chicago to cover a week of snowy weather
in January?

I see. So it is not windy in Chicago or any of the states to the west or south of Chicago in January. LOL

Sometimes it is windy in Chicago.

How many of those trailers would we need in Chicago to cover a week of snowy weather
in January?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Solar panels work off of solar radiation, not just a sunny day...

Strangely enough, their output dips when it's cloudy.

View attachment 443950

How Solar Panels Work on Cloudy Days | SunPower Solar Blog

It can dip but it isn't solely based on just direct light it has viability with general solar radiation as well.

Solar Radiation Basics | Department of Energy

I never said it was solely based on direct light.
But if solar is your only input and it suddenly dips 10%-25%, you're
going to have a problem with your grid.

 

[Old Rocks]

Solar panels work off of solar radiation, not just a sunny day...

Strangely enough, their output dips when it's cloudy.

View attachment 443950

How Solar Panels Work on Cloudy Days | SunPower Solar Blog

It can dip but it isn't solely based on just direct light it has viability with general solar radiation as well.

Solar Radiation Basics | Department of Energy

I never said it was solely based on direct light.
But if solar is your only input and it suddenly dips 10%-25%, you're
going to have a problem with your grid.

And since when is anyone proposing only solar? Wind, hydro, geothermal all have a role to play, depending on location. Solar will play a big part since it is so scalable. From small handheld calculators to Gigawatt utility installations. With grid scale storage and wide spread installations, for the grid covers many states, fluctuations can be smoothed out far better than they are presently with nuclear and fossil fuel generation.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Solar panels work off of solar radiation, not just a sunny day...

Strangely enough, their output dips when it's cloudy.

View attachment 443950

How Solar Panels Work on Cloudy Days | SunPower Solar Blog

It can dip but it isn't solely based on just direct light it has viability with general solar radiation as well.

Solar Radiation Basics | Department of Energy

I never said it was solely based on direct light.
But if solar is your only input and it suddenly dips 10%-25%, you're
going to have a problem with your grid.

And since when is anyone proposing only solar? Wind, hydro, geothermal all have a role to play, depending on location. Solar will play a big part since it is so scalable. From small handheld calculators to Gigawatt utility installations. With grid scale storage and wide spread installations, for the grid covers many states, fluctuations can be smoothed out far better than they are presently with nuclear and fossil fuel generation.

You were the guy saying we're going to get rid of coal and then nuclear and natural gas.
All the base load plants.

So how many of those trailer sized batteries do we need to keep Chicago going for a snowy, cloudy day with no wind?

Come on, ballpark it for me.

 

[HenryBHough]

The Democrat mayor of Chicago has it all under control. The city has built a thirty million dollar facility to breed cats.

Cats to be issued to each household to rub together to make electricity on cloudy days.

OK, so not a job someone would do for minimum wage so the city will simply raise taxes to be able to the official cat rubbers. Of course there'll be a problem finding enough party faithful with the intellect to rub in the right direction.

And there's the opportunity for some actual education!

 

[Old Rocks]

The Democrat mayor of Chicago has it all under control. The city has built a thirty million dollar facility to breed cats.

Cats to be issued to each household to rub together to make electricity on cloudy days.

OK, so not a job someone would do for minimum wage so the city will simply raise taxes to be able to the official cat rubbers. Of course there'll be a problem finding enough party faithful with the intellect to rub in the right direction.

And there's the opportunity for some actual education!

LOL Mindless derision is the only arrow in your quiver.

 

[Viacheslav]

Does Solar energy show promise in keeping cities operational?

No, the problem is physics. The best energy density in a lithium battery is about 200 W*h / kg and just let's calculate how many "lithium batteries" we need for example 1 GW * h, 10^9/200 = 5000000kg, but I assume that 1 GWh isn't enough for a city with a population of more than one million.

 

[Old Rocks]

Does Solar energy show promise in keeping cities operational?

No, the problem is physics. The best energy density in a lithium battery is about 200 W*h / kg and just let's calculate how many "lithium batteries" we need for example 1 GW * h, 10^9/200 = 5000000kg, but I assume that 1 GWh isn't enough for a city with a population of more than one million.

No, it has progressed to about 300 W*h/kg with Tesla's 4680 battery, and, with further improvements, may exceed 400 W*h/kg. And there are many batteries in labs that far exceed that density. Some by as much as a factor of 3. But, as Musk has stated, what works in the lab is a long way from being possible to manufacture at a reasonable cost in industrial quantities.

 

[Old Rocks]

Does Solar energy show promise in keeping cities operational?

No, the problem is physics. The best energy density in a lithium battery is about 200 W*h / kg and just let's calculate how many "lithium batteries" we need for example 1 GW * h, 10^9/200 = 5000000kg, but I assume that 1 GWh isn't enough for a city with a population of more than one million.

Also, there are many other ways of storing energy, here is one of them;

 

[Viacheslav]

No, it has progressed to about 300 W*h/kg with Tesla's 4680 battery, and, with further improvements, may exceed 400 W*h/kg. And there are many batteries in labs that far exceed that density. Some by as much as a factor of 3. But, as Musk has stated, what works in the lab is a long way from being possible to manufacture at a reasonable cost in industrial quantities.

When the 4680 battery goes on sale and is used in a real-world environment we will see real efficency, right now it's marketing. And in laboratories, there are many concepts of batteries with a density of energy even more than 1 kWh / kg (i worked in one of these laboratories), but when these batteries go out of laboratory conditions into real life, many problems arise that prevent the use of these batteries.

 

[Mac-7]

Sorry, but the Tesla generating station is far from powering the entire island. ..

Tesla runs an entire island on solar power | Engadget I had the wrong Island they're developing that one

your example is a joke

There are only 600 people on the island