Some Simple FACTS About Disarming Americans

[Delete752]

No robbery was ever stopped by the words "Stop or I'll take your picture".

The sarcasm of some people on this message board makes me chuckle. But what he says is true.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Police hunt for teens who killed store clerk | 11alive.com

Customer shot by store clerk unloading loaded handgun | ksdk.com

The accidental shooting happened at a gun store. The source does not go into much details on why the gun was loaded in the first place. Such as Does the gun store have a in door gun range, and the loaded firearm was having issues and the employee was attempting to assist the shooter on the firing line with gun.

 

[JoeB131]

To those saying I'm only in a convenient store for a couple of minutes, thats the whole point. The thug is going to wait till I am gone to try anything. Which is the whole reason why I carry, to protect my life and my family's life. Sounds selfish, but that's a man's job, to protect his family's life.

Um... yeah, so you need to carry a gun all the time to protect your family because we have too many people out there with too many guns...

Um...yeah. Okay. And you think more guns are really the solution?

 

[Delete752]

Not more guns. More registered, instructed, intelligent gun owners.

 

[Pogo]

Really? I find this highly unlikely.

You're the same guy who just completely whiffed on the point that Tim McVeigh's political registration is irrelevant, so I don't think what you find "unlikely" is the product of sterling powers of observation...

I think you're confused. I never "whiffed" on any point that McVeigh's political registration is irrelevant. I asked for proof that McVeigh was a Republican. So, when you give sermons on sterling powers of observation, you might want to look at your own self. And by the way, WTF is "whiffed" supposed to mean? You mean, I got a smell of or, in baseball, tried unsuccessfully to hit a ball?

Here's your sterling powers of observation, whiffleball --

Where I had posted,

Where's anyone who cares? What does registering as a Republican change exactly? I know people who register Repub (or Democrat) so they can be involved in their local government. So what??

... you then posted,

Well then let's see the proof McVeigh was a Republican.

Duh.

 

[Pogo]

I wonder how many gun haters would have the courage to place a 'gun free zone' bumper sticker on their car or the front door of their residence.

Send 'em to me. I'll put them on all my cars and my house. Send me 500 if you can and I'll hand them out.

We've got to get over this John Wayne mentality and stop thinking like a collective 13-year-old.

 

[Pogo]

To stop a guy with a gun requires an escalation in violence.

That fallacy is the whole thing in a nutshell, right there. A classic example of treating the symptom while ignoring the disease.

I guess you're opposed to police owning guns...too? What, you think we should negotiate with him? Or, worse, bend to his will even though we're armed? What are you...a liberal?

Nice try but you can't just wish truth away by slapping a convenient label on it. This isn't political; it's social psychology; what motivates people.

As far as police having guns (I assume you mean carrying, not 'owning'), I can tell you from subjective experience that the Gardai in Ireland don't carry guns and they're seen as helpful servants rather than "here comes trouble". Gardai is short for Garda Síochána, or "Guardians of the Peace". Notice the word "peace"? It might just be that when you go looking for trouble you find it, and the same is true of peace. "Be careful what you wish for". All about attitude. More on this below.

Really? Tell that to Japan.

Actually, Japan could tell us:
Gun Violence: Virtually a Thing of the Past in Japan

Authorities in Japan have made it very difficult for most of the country’s citizens to own guns. As a result, shooting deaths are rare.

...“Gen. MacArthur was famously dismayed because none of the police carried guns,” Fisher says. “And he had to specifically order them to carry handguns or they just wouldn’t do it.”

...“In a Japanese action movie, if a handgun comes out, that’s considered this kind of very serious grave thing,” Fisher notes. “Whereas in an American action movie, unless there are 40 guns going off at once it’s kind of a boring scene.”

There it is again: Attitude. Perspective. This latter view that holds more respect for both the power of firearms and human life, is what the constant gun-on-gun escalation removes from us. And the more we do it, the farther away we get from those values.

As I posted somewhere else today, even if there's no violence-- suppose you're a gun owner, licensed, legal, trained and responsible, and you go out carrying....

Trouble comes up, you let it be known that you're armed... trouble retreats. Now, even if no shots were fired...
What exactly have you accomplished?

What a stupid comment...pure and simple. What do you THINK I would have accomplished?

Actually I answered my own question in the same post. Those sterling powers of observation again.

Again -- what you've "accomplished" is to perpetuate the silly John Wayne mentality and ensure it stays with us and continues and in your fantasy world at least, requires further and further escalation.

As I said before and I'll say again, that is a dead end. Literally.

What this ultimately comes down to is whether you're concerned about your culture as a whole, or just about numero uno. If it's the latter "every man for himself" attitude, then yes, your best answer probably is constant escalation through more and more firearms, which begets more and more violence and more and more Newtowns. Just know, if that is your quest, it's finite. A dead end. It may get you through today but it won't get us through tomorrow.

 

[jtpr312]

Most legitimate convenience stores insist that their employees are not armed and do not fight back. If someone robs you, just give them the money

I'm talking about if I am in the convienant store as a customer, not as an employee. Criminals are like electricity, they will take the path of least resistance and an obvious .40 glock on my side is a hell of a lot of resistance. I promise.

Frankly, if I'm in a convience store, the last thing I want to be is in the middle of a gun battle between a robber and clerk over $50.00 in the register.

Most convience stores never keep that much money outside the safe to start with.

Yet convience store clerks are gunned down on a regular basis in this nation. You're a real dumbass.

 

[skookerasbil]

Americans who want all guns banned are just gonna have to leave this country..........go settle in Norway s0ns. See ya........take a nice hot tub in the sub freezing temps but dont forget to arm your self defense water guns with alcohol. We'll be sure to send you some postcards..........

 

[skookerasbil]

To stop a guy with a gun requires an escalation in violence.

That fallacy is the whole thing in a nutshell, right there. A classic example of treating the symptom while ignoring the disease.

I guess you're opposed to police owning guns...too? What, you think we should negotiate with him? Or, worse, bend to his will even though we're armed? What are you...a liberal?

Nice try but you can't just wish truth away by slapping a convenient label on it. This isn't political; it's social psychology; what motivates people.

As far as police having guns (I assume you mean carrying, not 'owning'), I can tell you from subjective experience that the Gardai in Ireland don't carry guns and they're seen as helpful servants rather than "here comes trouble". Gardai is short for Garda Síochána, or "Guardians of the Peace". Notice the word "peace"? It might just be that when you go looking for trouble you find it, and the same is true of peace. "Be careful what you wish for". All about attitude. More on this below.



Actually, Japan could tell us:
Gun Violence: Virtually a Thing of the Past in Japan



There it is again: Attitude. Perspective. This latter view that holds more respect for both the power of firearms and human life, is what the constant gun-on-gun escalation removes from us. And the more we do it, the farther away we get from those values.

As I posted somewhere else today, even if there's no violence-- suppose you're a gun owner, licensed, legal, trained and responsible, and you go out carrying....

Trouble comes up, you let it be known that you're armed... trouble retreats. Now, even if no shots were fired...
What exactly have you accomplished?

What a stupid comment...pure and simple. What do you THINK I would have accomplished?

Actually I answered my own question in the same post. Those sterling powers of observation again.

Again -- what you've "accomplished" is to perpetuate the silly John Wayne mentality and ensure it stays with us and continues and in your fantasy world at least, requires further and further escalation.

As I said before and I'll say again, that is a dead end. Literally.

What this ultimately comes down to is whether you're concerned about your culture as a whole, or just about numero uno. If it's the latter "every man for himself" attitude, then yes, your best answer probably is constant escalation through more and more firearms, which begets more and more violence and more and more Newtowns. Just know, if that is your quest, it's finite. A dead end. It may get you through today but it won't get us through tomorrow.

 

[rightwinger]

I'm talking about if I am in the convienant store as a customer, not as an employee. Criminals are like electricity, they will take the path of least resistance and an obvious .40 glock on my side is a hell of a lot of resistance. I promise.

Frankly, if I'm in a convience store, the last thing I want to be is in the middle of a gun battle between a robber and clerk over $50.00 in the register.

Most convience stores never keep that much money outside the safe to start with.

Yet convience store clerks are gunned down on a regular basis in this nation. You're a real dumbass.

Yea....guns will do that

We need more minimum wage trained killers

 

[bayoubill]

I'm not a damn lib, I happen to own a glock .9mm. The context is a bit different now than it was in colonial America, the 2nd Amendment ensures the right to bear arms, not military assault rifles. Grown-ups know to make the distinction and purchase the glock or hunting rifle. As far as home defense, if I ever need anything more than the 17 rounds that my glock carries, its game over anyways.

Let's go ahead and re-examine even the remote chance that a slight curtailment of this amendment could save lives. I for one will support Diane Feinstein and will be looking to see this bill progress after it hits the senate floor.

lol...

I'm not a damn lib, I happen to own a glock .9mm.

is just about the goofiest thing I've read all day...

 

[CrotchetyGeezer]

Oh...wow, gee, since CNN said he was a registered Republican, it MUST be true. Where's CNN's proof he was a registered Republican?

His voter registration card in New York State.

Show it to us.

 

[jtpr312]

Frankly, if I'm in a convience store, the last thing I want to be is in the middle of a gun battle between a robber and clerk over $50.00 in the register.

Most convience stores never keep that much money outside the safe to start with.

Yet convience store clerks are gunned down on a regular basis in this nation. You're a real dumbass.

Yea....guns will do that

We need more minimum wage trained killers

No a-hole, low life scumbaga will do that. Guns never killed anyone. You do know what inanimate means right?

 

[KissMy]

Forbs Magazine: "In fact law-abiding citizens in America used guns in self-defense 2.5 million times during 1993 (about 6,850 times per day), and actually shot and killed 2 1/2 times as many criminals as police did (1,527 to 606). Those civilian self-defense shootings resulted in less than 1/5th as many incidents as police where an innocent person was mistakenly identified as a criminal (2% versus 11%).

Just how effectively have gun bans worked to make citizens safer in other countries? Take the number of home break-ins while residents are present as an indication. In Canada and Britain, both with tough gun-control laws, nearly half of all burglaries occur when residents are present. But in the U.S. where many households are armed, only about 13% happen when someone is home.

Recognizing clear statistical benefit evidence, 41 states now allow competent, law-abiding adults to carry permitted or permit-exempt concealed handguns. As a result, crime rates in those states have typically fallen at least 10% in the year following enactment."

 

[skookerasbil]

Forbs Magazine: "In fact law-abiding citizens in America used guns in self-defense 2.5 million times during 1993 (about 6,850 times per day), and actually shot and killed 2 1/2 times as many criminals as police did (1,527 to 606). Those civilian self-defense shootings resulted in less than 1/5th as many incidents as police where an innocent person was mistakenly identified as a criminal (2% versus 11%).

Just how effectively have gun bans worked to make citizens safer in other countries? Take the number of home break-ins while residents are present as an indication. In Canada and Britain, both with tough gun-control laws, nearly half of all burglaries occur when residents are present. But in the U.S. where many households are armed, only about 13% happen when someone is home.

Recognizing clear statistical benefit evidence, 41 states now allow competent, law-abiding adults to carry permitted or permit-exempt concealed handguns. As a result, crime rates in those states have typically fallen at least 10% in the year following enactment."

Not at all relevant for those who's thinking is dominated by emotions alone = the gun grabbers. These people are simply terrfied by guns.......and more than 90% of the gun grabbers on here have never even seen a real gun let alone fire one.


The other thing is.......liberals historically have alot of difficulty being able to comprehand the necessary tradeoffs in their thinking patterns. As Ive always said, almost all liberals cannot answer two basic questions no matter what you are talking.............

1) At what cost?

and

2) Compared to what?


These people simply cannot fathom somebody forcing their way into their house. Most live in a bubble. At worst, they figure they will negotiate themselves out of the problem and send them off with a cup of hot chocolate.


Me?


No verbal threats........no warning shots. Lethal force period. Call me cold......I have a duty to protect my family.........something a good liberal never stops to consider ( obviously.....and calling 911 is gay.....you're dead asshole)


Bad guy comes in my house, his body is leaving in two body bags........one for his head.

 

[CrotchetyGeezer]

To stop a guy with a gun requires an escalation in violence.

That fallacy is the whole thing in a nutshell, right there. A classic example of treating the symptom while ignoring the disease.

The "disease" is the criminal. If I shoot the criminal, there is no disease, nor symptoms.

I guess you're opposed to police owning guns...too? What, you think we should negotiate with him? Or, worse, bend to his will even though we're armed? What are you...a liberal?

Nice try but you can't just wish truth away by slapping a convenient label on it. This isn't political; it's social psychology; what motivates people.

Nice try, but vomiting a bunch of irrelevant gibberish thinking it actually means anything gets you nowhere. And, I noticed how you avoided answering the questions.

So, again, what, you think we should negotiate with him? Or, worse, bend to his will even though we're armed? What are you...a liberal?

As far as police having guns (I assume you mean carrying, not 'owning'), I can tell you from subjective experience that the Gardai in Ireland don't carry guns and they're seen as helpful servants rather than "here comes trouble". Gardai is short for Garda Síochána, or "Guardians of the Peace". Notice the word "peace"? It might just be that when you go looking for trouble you find it, and the same is true of peace. "Be careful what you wish for". All about attitude. More on this below.

Enough with bringing up of other countries. Go live in Ireland or Japan, if you find their policies regarding guns so superior. This isn't Ireland, nor is it Japan.

Further:

Armed Gardai

Although a primarily unarmed force, certain units of the Gardai, such as detective units, the regional support units, and the Emergency Response Unit are commissioned to carry firearms. The original stock of Smith & Wesson Model 10 revolvers are in the process of being replaced by the Sig Sauer P226 and Walther P99c semi-automitic pistols. Regional Support Units are equipped with Heckler & Koch MP7 sub-machine guns in addition to issue pistols and non-lethal weapons such as tasers and pepper spray. They serve as a first response to back up regular Garda officers in critical situations due to a rise of incidents that involve firearm use. In order to be issued with a firearm, or to carry a firearm whilst on duty, a member must be in possession of a valid gun card.

Policing abroad

Since 1989, the Garda Siochana has undertaken United Nations peace-keeping duties. Its first such mission was a 50 strong continent sent to Namibia. Since then the force has acted in Angola, Cambodia, Cyprus, Mozambique, South Africa and the former Yugoslavia. The force's first fatality whilst working abroad was Sergeant Paul M. Reid, who was fatally injured while on duty with the United Nations UNPROFOR at "Sniper's Alley" in Sarajevo on 18 May 1995.

Members of the Garda Siochana also serve in the Embassies of Ireland in London, The Hague, Madrid and Paris. Members are also seconded to Europol in The Hague, Holland, and Interpol in Lyon, France. There are also many members working directly for UN and European agencies such as the War Crime Tribunal.

Garda officers also cooperate with members of the Police Service of Northern Ireland to combat cross-border crime. They have also accompanied politicians from the Republic, such as the President on visits to Northern Ireland.

Under an agreement with the British Government and the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea, the Garda Siochana and the Radiological Protection Institute of Ireland are allowed to inspect the Sellafield nuclear facility in Cumbria, England.

So, you're going to try and compare Ireland's Garda Siochana to American police? Really?

Controversy and allegations involving force

Much like every police force in the world the Gardai have faced many complaints against them including allegations of discourtesy, harassment and perjury. A total of 1,173 complaints were made by the public against the Gardai in 2005, while over 2,000 complaints were made in 2009.

Some incidents involving the Garda Siochana have attracted wide scale attention -- such as those that led to the Morris and Barr Tribunals -- and have resulted in broad reform initiatives. Other reports suggest that people who frequent gay and lesbian establishments feel that the Gardai are not doing enough to tackle reported homophobic crime in Ireland. In 2007 there was also some debate when a potential Sikh applicant of the Garda Reserve requested that he be allowed to wear a turban in place of a standard uniform cap. Ultimately the provision was not made as it was stated that the force had the same uniform requirements for all members.

Allegations involving abuse of powers

One of the first charges of serious impropriety against the force rose out of the handling of the Sallins Train Robbery in 1976. This case eventually led to accusations that a "Heavy Gang" within the force intimidated and tortured accused. This eventually led to a Presidential pardon for one of the accused.

In 2004, an RTE Prime Time documentary accused elements within the Garda of abusing their powers by physically assaulting people arrested. A retired Circuit Court judge (W.A. Murphy) suggested that some members of the force had committed perjury in criminal trials before him but later stated that he was misquoted, while a Minister of State (Dick Roche, a junior government minister) accused Gardai in one instance of "torture". The Garda Commissioner accused the television programme of lacking balance.

The Prime Time documentary followed footage published by the Indendent Media Centre Ireland showing scuffles between Gardai and Reclaim the Streets demonstrators. One Garda in this footage was later convicted of common assault, which is a summary matter, while several other Gardai were acquitted.

Allegations involving cross-border policing

The family of Eddie Fullerton, a Buncrana Sinn Fein councillor killed in his home by members of the Ulster Defence Association in 1991, have criticised the Gardai of handling of the investigation and in 2005 they started a campaign for an inquiry.

The Smithwick Tribunal is also investigating allegations of collusion following the death of two Royal Ulster Constabulary officers killed by the Provisional IRA as they returned from a meeting with the Gardai in the Republic of Ireland following a recommendation from the Cory Collusion Inquiry.

Garda Síochána - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Actually, Japan could tell us:
Gun Violence: Virtually a Thing of the Past in Japan





There it is again: Attitude. Perspective. This latter view that holds more respect for both the power of firearms and human life, is what the constant gun-on-gun escalation removes from us. And the more we do it, the farther away we get from those values.

I didn't ask you what gun violence allegedly is in Japan. I asked you to ask Japan whether or not "the answer to violence is to escalate to more violence is absurd on its face".

Further, trying to compare Japan's gun violence incidents with America's is just stupid and nothing more than apples and oranges. Different cultures, different population and population concentrations, different ways of living, etc., etc., etc. In Japan, why don't you compare the ways in which they raise their children, as compared to the United States? Would you agree the Japanese have slightly a better track record of teaching their children respect for their elders, manners and honor, than most American parents do? Japan's way of life is so vastly different than that of the United States it's plain and simply stupid for you to even try and make some ridiculous comparison concerning gun violence or pretty much anything else.

As I posted somewhere else today, even if there's no violence-- suppose you're a gun owner, licensed, legal, trained and responsible, and you go out carrying....

Trouble comes up, you let it be known that you're armed... trouble retreats. Now, even if no shots were fired...
What exactly have you accomplished?

What a stupid comment...pure and simple. What do you THINK I would have accomplished?

Actually I answered my own question in the same post. Those sterling powers of observation again.

No you didn't answer your own question.

Again -- what you've "accomplished" is to perpetuate the silly John Wayne mentality and ensure it stays with us and continues and in your fantasy world at least, requires further and further escalation.

No, what I've accomplished was to persuade the "trouble" to retreat.

As I said before and I'll say again, that is a dead end. Literally.

Dead end for the "trouble".

What this ultimately comes down to is whether you're concerned about your culture as a whole, or just about numero uno. If it's the latter "every man for himself" attitude, then yes, your best answer probably is constant escalation through more and more firearms, which begets more and more violence and more and more Newtowns. Just know, if that is your quest, it's finite. A dead end. It may get you through today but it won't get us through tomorrow.

Sorry, your lies just don't jive with the statistics.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Immaterial.

Police hunt for teens who killed store clerk | 11alive.com

Customer shot by store clerk unloading loaded handgun | ksdk.com

The accidental shooting happened at a gun store. The source does not go into much details on why the gun was loaded in the first place. Such as Does the gun store have a in door gun range, and the loaded firearm was having issues and the employee was attempting to assist the shooter on the firing line with gun.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Immaterial.

Customer shot by store clerk unloading loaded handgun | ksdk.com

The accidental shooting happened at a gun store. The source does not go into much details on why the gun was loaded in the first place. Such as Does the gun store have a in door gun range, and the loaded firearm was having issues and the employee was attempting to assist the shooter on the firing line with gun.

Your opinion is worthless and irrelevant.

 

[Pogo]

Enough with bringing up of other countries. Go live in Ireland or Japan, if you find their policies regarding guns so superior. This isn't Ireland, nor is it Japan.

Ah-- you brought up Japan, and you also brought up whether I thought cops should "own" guns. I answered both, you didn't like the answer. Oh well

Then after "enough with bringing up of [sic] other countries", you went into an encyclopedia of An Garda Siochana in Africa.

So, you're going to try and compare Ireland's Garda Siochana to American police? Really?

Yup, really. Except I compared cops on the street with cops on the street -- not in freaking Angola. From real life, not Wikipedia.

I didn't ask you what gun violence allegedly is in Japan. I asked you to ask Japan whether or not "the answer to violence is to escalate to more violence is absurd on its face.

And I answered. Again, if you're not gonna like the answer then don't ask the question. Actually I couldn't believe you gave me an opening that big.
As they say in baseball, "you hang 'em, we bang 'em"

Further, trying to compare Japan's gun violence incidents with America's is just stupid and nothing more than apples and oranges. Different cultures, different population and population concentrations, different ways of living, etc., etc., etc.

-- then why did you bring up Japan?
"Different cultures" and "different ways of living" is very much the point here. That's why I illustrated your vision of never-ending escalation with one of an equally developed country that has no such problem ... because they don't subscribe to the escalation/overpower mentality.
Mentality... attitude... perspective... is any of this ringing a bell with those sterling powers of observation in the same post you just quoted? Hello? Anybody home?

In Japan, why don't you compare the ways in which they raise their children, as compared to the United States? Would you agree the Japanese have slightly a better track record of teaching their children respect for their elders, manners and honor, than most American parents do? Japan's way of life is so vastly different than that of the United States it's plain and simply stupid for you to even try and make some ridiculous comparison concerning gun violence or pretty much anything else.

Because Japanese culture and child rearing is not the topic here. Whether they teach their children better respect for their elders, I wouldn't presume to speculate. Because unlike Ireland, I haven't been there so I don't have the experience. And I don't consider Wikipedia a substitute for direct experience.

No, what I've accomplished was to persuade the "trouble" to retreat.

As I said the first time (last night), what you've done is confirmed to "Trouble" that this is a war of firearms and if he's going to compete in his role as Trouble he'd better get armed, and he will, with a bigger one than you've got. And then you get a bigger one. And on and on. WHERE is the end?

So all you've accomplished is you've shown him that you have a power advantage -- for now. That does nothing to address the next time (or his next target) -- it just gives him an incentive and a reason to go get more firepower. It's also the fallacious reasoning of trying to get through a situation by overwhelming it instead of understanding it. But then this is where you need powers of observation (and it's beginning to dawn on me why yours are lacking)

What this ultimately comes down to is whether you're concerned about your culture as a whole, or just about numero uno. If it's the latter "every man for himself" attitude, then yes, your best answer probably is constant escalation through more and more firearms, which begets more and more violence and more and more Newtowns. Just know, if that is your quest, it's finite. A dead end. It may get you through today but it won't get us through tomorrow.

Sorry, your lies just don't jive with the statistics.

Sorry but opinions by definition cannot be "lies". And there are no "statistics" on "what would happen if...". Observe the difference between fact and opinion.

________________________
Let's dip into details in that scenario... this should have all the "right" things in it for the pro-gun position:

Say a guy owns a gun, and he's licensed, legal, trained and responsible. He keeps it for "protection". He goes out to walk his dog, and he take the firearm. Hoping not to use it, it's just in case. All as it should be, right?

So out he goes. Eventually the situation comes up: Trouble. Now Trouble is subjective, so there are several levels that could manifest:

Level 1: you go around a corner and suddenly there's a gun in your face. Taken by surprise. Pretty clear cut.
Level 2: you're harassed-- maybe he's following you, blocking your path, making physical threats, but not showing a firearm.
Level 3: you're annoyed/inconvenienced, maybe asked for money, given the "we need bus fare" speech, or insulted.
Level 4: there's something going on you find annoying but it's not addressed to you. Loud music maybe, or just "suspicious looking characters".

In our previous scenario (Level 2), you reacted by calmly letting the perp know that you're armed -- maybe you show him from a safe distance... he sees and retreats. That's Level 2 only, and it's the best possible outcome, and that's if everything goes just right. That's the ideal fantasy.

If you met Level 1, you're already at a disadvantage and your gun does you no good (unless you want to risk a draw). Good luck, but you're in the same position you were if unarmed.

But where the shit hits the fan is levels 3 and 4. This is where this amateur gunnist has to decide in an instant what makes a threat and what doesn't. This is where the knowledge that you are carrying can influence what you do next. That leads to rash and deadly decisions. It leads to escalating things that didn't need to be escalated.

This guy had a level 4. He's on trial for murder and attempted murder now. His victim: not so lucky. He's dead.

The wages of escalation is death.

That's it for now - holidays encroach. Merry Christmas.