Someone explain to me how Trump "failed" on Covid?

[Andylusion]

Bologna.

"The research also found that if interventions in the country could have been conducted one week, two weeks, or three weeks earlier, cases could have been reduced by 66 percent, 86 percent and 95 percent respectively – significantly limiting the geographical spread of the disease. However, if NPIs were conducted one week, two weeks, or three weeks later than they were, the number of cases may have shown a 3-fold, 7-fold, or 18-fold increase, respectively."

“Our study demonstrates how important it is for countries which are facing an imminent outbreak to proactively plan a coordinated response which swiftly tackles the spread of the disease on a number of fronts."

When this report came out we had very few cases, however anyone with at brain understood what it meant for us.

Furthermore we had 50 state responses not a comprehensive national one.

Early And Combined Interventions Crucial In Tackling Covid-19 Spread In China | University of Southampton

A study by the University of Southampton examining non-pharmaceutical interventions (NPIs) in response to the new coronavirus (COVID-19) in China shows that a range of early, coordinated and targeted measures are needed to help significantly reduce its spread.

www.southampton.ac.uk

I request that you find a different country to make that claim on.

I don't believe China. The only time China is not lying, is when they are not saying anything.

This is a country that jailed the doctors who warned them about Covid-19 to begin with. They have complete control over the media, and there is non-government journalism at all.

This is like believing the child mortality rates in Cuba, when we know doctors simply refuse to report deaths because the government will fire them, and they'll end up sifting through garbage cans.

Or Venezuela claiming the unemployment rate is low, because 4 million people fled the country, so they are no longer counted as unemployed.

If you are going to trust the numbers from China, then you might as well assume everything Trump says is divine truth as well.

So what if China is and was lying? Is that supposed to be an excuse for Trump failures handling the Coronavirus?

The difference between us and the Chinese general populations. They heavily wear mask even inside their homes, even before the pandemic and very compliant. Here in US are fighting of stupid mask.

Well yes, actually. The basis of the argument is "see china did it better"... right but if they lied... then no they didn't.

The difference between us and the Chinese general populations. They heavily wear mask even inside their homes, even before the pandemic and very compliant

TRUE TRUE TRUE! Yes. Correct. You got it.

Do you not realize that you blew up your own position?

You stated the truth about China. Now.... can you think logically about the implications?

1. You are blaming Trump for that fact that culturally we are different than China. Do you think that if Obama was president right now, that everyone would magically become compliant slaves to the government?

Do you know why they are complaint slaves to the government in China? Because if they don't comply, they end up disappearing.

Is that what you want Trump to do? Start secret police, and making people disappear? Because that is in fact what you are advocating when you point to the "success of China on Covid".

But there is a second implication of your factually true statement.

2. Yes... *YES*... Chinese in China wear masks all the time. Very compliant as you said.

Do you not see a problem there? Can you not see it?

Chinese wear masks all the time. Very compliant. Follow all the government dictations.

Still don't see the problem? Where did Covid-19 originate?

Let's review shall we? China which has an extremely compliant population, where the government tosses people in jail for not complying, which has been wearing masks constantly.

Please explain how if mask wearing is so effective, how did Covid-19 even start in China, let alone become a pandemic? They were wearing masks for years before now, yet not only did Covid-19 start in China and killed thousands, but it spread world wide. Those masks and being compliant worked so well, didn't it?

And I never said we should follow Chinese government rules. All I said was we should do our own to protect ourselves and STOP and enough already to keep blaming China.

SO WHAT if it came from China? We should just keep playing dumb don’t wear your fucking mask hug people don’t worry about it? Because that is what you are trying to imply.

You can tell when people have lost their argument, when they stop arguing the evidence, and start screaming about what they think other people are implying.

So are you done here?

No I’m not done. I have to do something more important than hanging around here. What evidence have you provided?

I used your evidence. You provided the evidence, that I used against you.

YOU said the Chinese were wearing masks even before the out break. I agreed, and cited that as the logical reasoning that masks do not prevent Covid-19, because they did, then it should have never left China. They should never have had an outbreak to begin with.

Further, you pointed out that the Chinese have a different culture, one of compliance to a dangerous authoritarian regime, that jails doctors. I agreed, and cited that no matter who was in office, Trump or anyone else, that Americans would still be Americans, and that we wouldn't bend over to every single edict given by government.

You are asking for evidence of my position, when YOU gave the evidence of my position.

You are going in circles Andy. You used evidence what I told you. REALLY?

Let me repeat it again. PAY ATTENTION when Coronavirus outbreak in China started Chines in general don’t know what they have and don’t know what to do even with the mask. They used mask because of dirty air over and over....... PAY ATTENTION when it started they used the same attitude using mask over and over. By the time they know it’s dangerous it’s too late. What part of that don’t you understand.

That makes no sense. You are suggesting that masks only work, if they were not originally used because of dirty air? Now masks only work if your attitude is right?

They only work if you replace them over and over?

That's funny, because I don't know anyone anywhere, that is not using the same mask over and over. No one. The most hard core "must wear masks or the planet dies" people are all using the same mask over and over.

I'd be hard pressed to find a single person anywhere who is NOT using the same mask over and over.

If you really believe what you are saying, then I think you are nuts.

You are spinning and twisting around like a wet pretzel.
I told you over and over the mask behavior and attitude they have before the pandemic using dirty mask over and over for several days...... They also ban selling exotic animals for consumptions....... You don’t know anything about China.

Mask only now works because they are not using the same dirty mask over and over. Of course...... What part of that don’t you understand? They even wear mask inside their home. And I KNOW how you are going to come back with your rebuttal

You don’t know anyone NOT using the same mask over and over. I don’t. I replaced it twice a day depending how many times I go out. And I know several people and so are friends and families does do that.

You don’t know anyone NOT using same mask over and over. Are they using it over and over for several days?

Eight in 10 Americans wear mask. So you are the minority.

You don’t know any one NOT using the same mask over and over. That means they are using mask except you.

More Americans say they are regularly wearing masks in stores and other businesses

As the pandemic continues, a growing share of Americans say they are regularly wearing a face covering in stores and other businesses.

www.pewresearch.org

Eight in 10 Americans wear mask. So you are the minority.

What are you even talking about?

I've been wearing a mask since March. I'm in the minority of what? Once again, you have no point, and so you make up stuff.

Its actually quite funny. You haven't been able to make a single valid argument yet, but every post you start shrieking about how I'm "spinning and twisting around"... but then *YOU* are the one that has to make false accusations about the other person, to try and have a point?

Nah, if anyone is "spinning and twisting around" it's you.

You know nothing about me, yet claim I'm in the minority of Americans who don't wear masks?

I have followed every single guideline given about this Covid-19 crap. I have worn masks, socially distanced, and haven't gone to Church since March. My church still isn't open even now. (online church of course, but we haven't met at the Church building).

I have not used personal experience in our conversation, because the evidence alone is enough. The fact you have failed to refute a single point I've made, is proof the evidence alone is enough.

But, one of the reasons that I personally am convinced that all the mask wearing and social distancing, and lock downs are completely ineffective, and pointless.... is because I personally followed all of your guidelines, and so did everyone I know, and everyone still got sick.

I got sick. My parents got sick. My friends and neighbors got sick. My co-workers all got sick. Everyone I know got sick, and we all... ALL.... followed the mask wearing, lock downs, and social distancing guidelines.


*** If does that work? If you follow all the Covid-19 rules, and everyone still got sick.... explain?

You can't. I'm you'll blather on that we must not have followed all the rules, but know for a fact we did... and we still got sick.

So.... Yeah. But we don't need my personal experience. We can just look at the facts. None those rules have worked anywhere. None of them. And I realize you think your posts somehow contradicted my points... but that's because you obviously don't realize your posts contradicted nothing. You didn't. You keep saying the same utterly irrelevant statements, acting like you have a point, but you don't. None of them were valid counter arguments.

Sorry, but you are just wrong. None of those were good points. Or even valid. Either masks work or they don't. All masks get dirty. I don't see a single person using new masks every day.

Even the WHO said they don't recommend that healthy people wear masks, or that mask wearing is effective at all.

Rotten Bologna. You’ve been fighting using mask from the beginning NOW suddenly you are wearing mask then your relatives got sick. BULLSHIT Dude. I know you are loosing by using my own words against me.

You are LYING..... You said it over and over mask is NOT good. You are 100% anti mask. Do you expect me to believe that you really wore mask? Then SUDDENLY (now you are loosing) now you’ve used mask. Very funny. All anti mask are the minorities. That includes your lousy president.


Spinning? That is sad. I don’t spin anything, every single point I made, never did, talked to you straight to the point. You were using my own words to spin around. Sadly.

Of course I used own my experience. What do you expect? Suddenly you are now using your experience to make a point. Sadly.

According to you. I mean you. I failed to refute every single point you made. WRONG. I BLASTED you all the way over and over.

You got sick, your parents got sick, your neighbors got sick, your co workers ALL got sick. And they all wear mask. How many people is that? MY GOD..... GOOD LORD did you made god angry? Are you the center of epidemic? An (now you are using your experience) anti-mask talking? Do you expect me to believe that? Nah! I don’t believe you. Zero. Did you watched them at home or they have kids? I doubt it.

I can tell you alone that hispanics here in California they do wear mask when they go out or work but they still got sick and die. High percentage of Covid deaths here are hispanics. You know why? (Explanation) Most have crowded home and apartments with maximum or over capacity, using the same restrooms, too close and dont wear mask inside the house.

Trump’s orbit 12 or more people got sick non of them wear mask. Look at Trump’s rallies thousands don’t wear mask. How many of those do you think that got sick that they denied? How many of those do you think wear mask in their daily routine or at home?

I will ask you the same question again. If mask is not good the way you portrayed it. Then we should see thousands and thousands of doctors and nurses that got sick and die. Correct? So where are they? Explain that.

You are saying mask is not good anyway. So we should follow your belief don’t wear mask because it’s not good? Explain that.

According to you Andy. You don’t see a single person using new mask every day. Why? Because you don’t have experience or just plain not telling the truth. Are you saying that your co workers or you use the same mask every day they when they come to work? Really? Explain.


You said....I mean you Andy. Even WHO said they don’t recommend healthy people wear mask..... Can you prove that? Any link?

That’s the dumbest thing I ever heard. Because I’m healthy I should recklessly do not wear mask.... What if sat next, following, took over a sit of an infected person? What do you think the percentage of catching it with out mask? And why should I risk my health because of stupidity?


*** My explanation......
*** My explanation......
1. 8 out 10 wear mask. In 331+ US populations ...... Only 7 millions+so far got infected. If Americans didn’t wear mask you should see far higher than 7+ millions. Don’t you think?

2. If they followed. If they followed they still got sick. How do you even know that they really followed? Did they followed rules at home? Did they have kids running around? There are lots of factors that a person can get infected.

I asked you 4 questions here in this post. I expect an answer.

You’ve been fighting using mask from the beginning NOW suddenly you are wearing mask then your relatives got sick. BULLSHIT Dude. I know you are loosing by using my own words against me.

No, I'm not losing. Only in your own tiny little mind.

Yes have been wearing masks since March. Yes, everyone I know still got sick. No, I'm not lying simply because I must be or your pathetic ideology doesn't work.

You don’t see a single person using new mask every day. Why? Because you don’t have experience or just plain not telling the truth. Are you saying that your co workers or you use the same mask every day they when they come to work? Really? Explain.

Um, yes. That is exactly what I'm saying. All of them. All 300 people at the facility where I work, all use the same mask over and over. The only time someone uses a different mask, is when they leave their mask at home, and they go and get one of the cheap 25¢ cloth masks the company hands out. But I can tell you from direct personal knowledge, that the box of clothe masks has been sitting there for the last 2 months without being replaced.

I'm not sure what you want me to explain. They use the same mask over and over for this entire year. What more do you want me to explain?

My old company (I was laid off in April before I got this job), they all used the same masks every single day.

I will ask you the same question again. If mask is not good the way you portrayed it.Then we should see thousands and thousands of doctors and nurses that got sick and die. Correct? So where are they? Explain that.

That's a dumb statement. Saying masks are not effective, doesn't magically mean they cause people to die. Something that has no benefit, does not automatically mean it has a negative effect. You seem to be implying that somehow saying there is no evidence that masks prevent Covid, must mean that I think wearing a mask will somehow cause people to die. No.

As for asking if masks are not effective, why have we not seen nurses and doctors falling over in mass death....... That's pretty easy to explain. It's the same reason we don't see people falling over in mass deaths anywhere.

These are numbers from the CDC. The ratio of people who get sick and die, to the ratio of people who don't have any symptoms at all, is massively in favor of the latter.

In the absolute worst case Scenario, with the highest risk age group, you have barely a 0.09% chance of dying of Covid-19.

For the next age group up, 50 to 69 year olds, you have barely a 0.01% chance.

What that means is that 99% of all people, including those in hospitals who work as nurses and doctors.....

Will not only not die of Covid-19, they may never even know they have it. A doctor and a nurse, has a higher chance of dying in a car crash on the way to the hospital, then dying of Covid-19 they caught in the hospital from Covid-19 patients.

1. 8 out 10 wear mask. In 331+ US populations ...... Only 7 millions+so far got infected. If Americans didn’t wear mask you should see far higher than 7+ millions. Don’t you think?

No, I don't. There is no evidence to support that conclusion. That's just your opinion. That's fine to have that opinion, but there is zero evidence whatsoever. There is no data that masks have been even in the smallest way, effective at stopping Covid.

None. NONE. ZERO. That statement above is not evidence. That's opinion.

My opinion... no. I have read the documents, looked at the data, read the statements by WHO and other groups. None show that mask wearing would have reduced the number of Covid cases.

 

[Dogbiscuit]

I dont know if anyone has posted this or not...

In other videos clips, Dr Fauci continues to explain the importance and timing of Trumps decision to shut down travel from China and then Europe, based on whatever knowledge he might have had at the time.
If this were Biden trying to stand up to China, which would never happen in the first place, and we had to rely on Bidens response to the China-Virus, then we would all be in deep doo doo.

 

[charwin95]

"The research also found that if interventions in the country could have been conducted one week, two weeks, or three weeks earlier, cases could have been reduced by 66 percent, 86 percent and 95 percent respectively – significantly limiting the geographical spread of the disease. However, if NPIs were conducted one week, two weeks, or three weeks later than they were, the number of cases may have shown a 3-fold, 7-fold, or 18-fold increase, respectively."

“Our study demonstrates how important it is for countries which are facing an imminent outbreak to proactively plan a coordinated response which swiftly tackles the spread of the disease on a number of fronts."

When this report came out we had very few cases, however anyone with at brain understood what it meant for us.

Furthermore we had 50 state responses not a comprehensive national one.

Early And Combined Interventions Crucial In Tackling Covid-19 Spread In China | University of Southampton

A study by the University of Southampton examining non-pharmaceutical interventions (NPIs) in response to the new coronavirus (COVID-19) in China shows that a range of early, coordinated and targeted measures are needed to help significantly reduce its spread.

www.southampton.ac.uk

I request that you find a different country to make that claim on.

I don't believe China. The only time China is not lying, is when they are not saying anything.

This is a country that jailed the doctors who warned them about Covid-19 to begin with. They have complete control over the media, and there is non-government journalism at all.

This is like believing the child mortality rates in Cuba, when we know doctors simply refuse to report deaths because the government will fire them, and they'll end up sifting through garbage cans.

Or Venezuela claiming the unemployment rate is low, because 4 million people fled the country, so they are no longer counted as unemployed.

If you are going to trust the numbers from China, then you might as well assume everything Trump says is divine truth as well.

So what if China is and was lying? Is that supposed to be an excuse for Trump failures handling the Coronavirus?

The difference between us and the Chinese general populations. They heavily wear mask even inside their homes, even before the pandemic and very compliant. Here in US are fighting of stupid mask.

Well yes, actually. The basis of the argument is "see china did it better"... right but if they lied... then no they didn't.

The difference between us and the Chinese general populations. They heavily wear mask even inside their homes, even before the pandemic and very compliant

TRUE TRUE TRUE! Yes. Correct. You got it.

Do you not realize that you blew up your own position?

You stated the truth about China. Now.... can you think logically about the implications?

1. You are blaming Trump for that fact that culturally we are different than China. Do you think that if Obama was president right now, that everyone would magically become compliant slaves to the government?

Do you know why they are complaint slaves to the government in China? Because if they don't comply, they end up disappearing.

Is that what you want Trump to do? Start secret police, and making people disappear? Because that is in fact what you are advocating when you point to the "success of China on Covid".

But there is a second implication of your factually true statement.

2. Yes... *YES*... Chinese in China wear masks all the time. Very compliant as you said.

Do you not see a problem there? Can you not see it?

Chinese wear masks all the time. Very compliant. Follow all the government dictations.

Still don't see the problem? Where did Covid-19 originate?

Let's review shall we? China which has an extremely compliant population, where the government tosses people in jail for not complying, which has been wearing masks constantly.

Please explain how if mask wearing is so effective, how did Covid-19 even start in China, let alone become a pandemic? They were wearing masks for years before now, yet not only did Covid-19 start in China and killed thousands, but it spread world wide. Those masks and being compliant worked so well, didn't it?

Mask in China. Those Chinese wear mask even before the pandemic because of dirty air. Like i posted many times I have business in China since 1995 that is why I speak Mandarin Chinese. And I wear mask every time I travel to China.

How did Chinese got infected and thousands deaths even wearing a mask? Read my post do not stare at it. Because Chinese are dirty and they didn’t knew how deadly the virus was before it became a pandemic so it spread like hell. But in general populations they learned the lessons the hard way.
Here in US we have 2 problems A. People like you who refuse to believe in science like mask . B. Denials that we have a problems.

If Obama or Biden is the president he will encourage Americans to wear mask and social distancing. Listen to science. Compared to Trump arrogantly anti mask and social distancing against his own policy.


If mask doesn’t work you should write or call the CDC, NIH and Trump administration to change this policies that mask is bad.

Mask in China. Those Chinese wear mask even before the pandemic because of dirty air. Like i posted many times I have business in China since 1995 that is why I speak Mandarin Chinese. And I wear mask every time I travel to China.

And it stopped Covid-19 instantly. That's why it never got out of China, and never became a pandemic.

Because Chinese are dirty and they didn’t knew how deadly the virus was before it became a pandemic so it spread like hell. But in general populations they learned the lessons the hard way.

Oh.... so dirty, is more important the mask wearing? Because I don't hear any politician including Trump, saying to be dirty.

What I hear them saying is that masks are not effective. Which your own post states.

That said, I don't know what you are talking about. I'm not say you are wrong. I don't know. I can't live your experience.

But I know Chinese people, who escaped from China to come to the US. Not one is dirty.

If Obama or Biden is the president he will encourage Americans to wear mask and social distancing. Listen to science. Compared to Trump arrogantly anti mask and social distancing against his own policy.

No. No American is going to sit there saying "Oh.... Obama has a mask, therefore I should."
Not true.

If mask doesn’t work you should write or call the CDC, NIH and Trump administration to change this policies that mask is bad.

Originally they didn't support wearing masks, until political pressure was put on them to change the policy.

Even the World Health Organization does not suggest people wear masks.

There is no evidence masks are effective. I don't need to write anyone. The evidence is already there.

I never said it stop instantly. I gave you an exact usages of mask in China. And who are you to dispute a pandemic?

China is dirty. You don’t even know what mean. I mean dirty like kids running around in the provinces without pants and they shit just around their houses, they butchered live animals using the same chopping board when cooked, wet markets, toilet is just a hole on the ground etc etc etc. You can even Google which country is the top 10 most polluted country in the world.

Pay Attention let me repeat it again. Most are accustomed using mask before the Pandemic because of dirty air using it over and over just like me when I was there. I only replaced it because I don’t know where I placed it.... Then Coronavirus came.... they used the same attitude not replacing dirty mask, they learned the hard way. NOW it’s a different attitude. Read my post do not stare at it.

You did not hear them saying China is dirty? Why should you wait to tell you China is dirty. I based it from my own experience.


** You heard from Chinese that mask is not effective. Really? Who? Do you have a proof?

According to you...... You know Chinese that escapes and they don’t look dirty. Do you expect them to fly with dirty clothes?

If Obama or Biden is the president they will ENCOURAGE people to wear mask. Pay attention read my post do not stare at it. Look at Biden encouraging people to wear mask blasting idiot Trump. Yes a president should set an example based from science not discouraged people not to wear mask.

** According to you..... NIH and CDC was only pressured politically to wear mask? Really? Do you have a proof or a link?


** If mask is not effective then we should see thousands of doctors and nurses that died of Coronavirus. Don’t you think? Scientists, experts, hospitals, nurses and doctors..... do not agree with you.

** What evidence do you have that mask is not effective?


** According to you the WHO organization does not suggest people wear mask. Really? I mean Really? Do you have any evidence to prove that?

Andy ....... This is my post #155.

** I asked you several questions here. Where are the answer?

Andy. .........From my post #155. I asked you 5 questions to prove it. I have not heard from you.

 

[Andylusion]

"The research also found that if interventions in the country could have been conducted one week, two weeks, or three weeks earlier, cases could have been reduced by 66 percent, 86 percent and 95 percent respectively – significantly limiting the geographical spread of the disease. However, if NPIs were conducted one week, two weeks, or three weeks later than they were, the number of cases may have shown a 3-fold, 7-fold, or 18-fold increase, respectively."

“Our study demonstrates how important it is for countries which are facing an imminent outbreak to proactively plan a coordinated response which swiftly tackles the spread of the disease on a number of fronts."

When this report came out we had very few cases, however anyone with at brain understood what it meant for us.

Furthermore we had 50 state responses not a comprehensive national one.

Early And Combined Interventions Crucial In Tackling Covid-19 Spread In China | University of Southampton

A study by the University of Southampton examining non-pharmaceutical interventions (NPIs) in response to the new coronavirus (COVID-19) in China shows that a range of early, coordinated and targeted measures are needed to help significantly reduce its spread.

www.southampton.ac.uk

I request that you find a different country to make that claim on.

I don't believe China. The only time China is not lying, is when they are not saying anything.

This is a country that jailed the doctors who warned them about Covid-19 to begin with. They have complete control over the media, and there is non-government journalism at all.

This is like believing the child mortality rates in Cuba, when we know doctors simply refuse to report deaths because the government will fire them, and they'll end up sifting through garbage cans.

Or Venezuela claiming the unemployment rate is low, because 4 million people fled the country, so they are no longer counted as unemployed.

If you are going to trust the numbers from China, then you might as well assume everything Trump says is divine truth as well.

So what if China is and was lying? Is that supposed to be an excuse for Trump failures handling the Coronavirus?

The difference between us and the Chinese general populations. They heavily wear mask even inside their homes, even before the pandemic and very compliant. Here in US are fighting of stupid mask.

Well yes, actually. The basis of the argument is "see china did it better"... right but if they lied... then no they didn't.

The difference between us and the Chinese general populations. They heavily wear mask even inside their homes, even before the pandemic and very compliant

TRUE TRUE TRUE! Yes. Correct. You got it.

Do you not realize that you blew up your own position?

You stated the truth about China. Now.... can you think logically about the implications?

1. You are blaming Trump for that fact that culturally we are different than China. Do you think that if Obama was president right now, that everyone would magically become compliant slaves to the government?

Do you know why they are complaint slaves to the government in China? Because if they don't comply, they end up disappearing.

Is that what you want Trump to do? Start secret police, and making people disappear? Because that is in fact what you are advocating when you point to the "success of China on Covid".

But there is a second implication of your factually true statement.

2. Yes... *YES*... Chinese in China wear masks all the time. Very compliant as you said.

Do you not see a problem there? Can you not see it?

Chinese wear masks all the time. Very compliant. Follow all the government dictations.

Still don't see the problem? Where did Covid-19 originate?

Let's review shall we? China which has an extremely compliant population, where the government tosses people in jail for not complying, which has been wearing masks constantly.

Please explain how if mask wearing is so effective, how did Covid-19 even start in China, let alone become a pandemic? They were wearing masks for years before now, yet not only did Covid-19 start in China and killed thousands, but it spread world wide. Those masks and being compliant worked so well, didn't it?

Mask in China. Those Chinese wear mask even before the pandemic because of dirty air. Like i posted many times I have business in China since 1995 that is why I speak Mandarin Chinese. And I wear mask every time I travel to China.

How did Chinese got infected and thousands deaths even wearing a mask? Read my post do not stare at it. Because Chinese are dirty and they didn’t knew how deadly the virus was before it became a pandemic so it spread like hell. But in general populations they learned the lessons the hard way.
Here in US we have 2 problems A. People like you who refuse to believe in science like mask . B. Denials that we have a problems.

If Obama or Biden is the president he will encourage Americans to wear mask and social distancing. Listen to science. Compared to Trump arrogantly anti mask and social distancing against his own policy.


If mask doesn’t work you should write or call the CDC, NIH and Trump administration to change this policies that mask is bad.

Mask in China. Those Chinese wear mask even before the pandemic because of dirty air. Like i posted many times I have business in China since 1995 that is why I speak Mandarin Chinese. And I wear mask every time I travel to China.

And it stopped Covid-19 instantly. That's why it never got out of China, and never became a pandemic.

Because Chinese are dirty and they didn’t knew how deadly the virus was before it became a pandemic so it spread like hell. But in general populations they learned the lessons the hard way.

Oh.... so dirty, is more important the mask wearing? Because I don't hear any politician including Trump, saying to be dirty.

What I hear them saying is that masks are not effective. Which your own post states.

That said, I don't know what you are talking about. I'm not say you are wrong. I don't know. I can't live your experience.

But I know Chinese people, who escaped from China to come to the US. Not one is dirty.

If Obama or Biden is the president he will encourage Americans to wear mask and social distancing. Listen to science. Compared to Trump arrogantly anti mask and social distancing against his own policy.

No. No American is going to sit there saying "Oh.... Obama has a mask, therefore I should."
Not true.

If mask doesn’t work you should write or call the CDC, NIH and Trump administration to change this policies that mask is bad.

Originally they didn't support wearing masks, until political pressure was put on them to change the policy.

Even the World Health Organization does not suggest people wear masks.

There is no evidence masks are effective. I don't need to write anyone. The evidence is already there.

I never said it stop instantly. I gave you an exact usages of mask in China. And who are you to dispute a pandemic?

China is dirty. You don’t even know what mean. I mean dirty like kids running around in the provinces without pants and they shit just around their houses, they butchered live animals using the same chopping board when cooked, wet markets, toilet is just a hole on the ground etc etc etc. You can even Google which country is the top 10 most polluted country in the world.

Pay Attention let me repeat it again. Most are accustomed using mask before the Pandemic because of dirty air using it over and over just like me when I was there. I only replaced it because I don’t know where I placed it.... Then Coronavirus came.... they used the same attitude not replacing dirty mask, they learned the hard way. NOW it’s a different attitude. Read my post do not stare at it.

You did not hear them saying China is dirty? Why should you wait to tell you China is dirty. I based it from my own experience.


** You heard from Chinese that mask is not effective. Really? Who? Do you have a proof?

According to you...... You know Chinese that escapes and they don’t look dirty. Do you expect them to fly with dirty clothes?

If Obama or Biden is the president they will ENCOURAGE people to wear mask. Pay attention read my post do not stare at it. Look at Biden encouraging people to wear mask blasting idiot Trump. Yes a president should set an example based from science not discouraged people not to wear mask.

** According to you..... NIH and CDC was only pressured politically to wear mask? Really? Do you have a proof or a link?


** If mask is not effective then we should see thousands of doctors and nurses that died of Coronavirus. Don’t you think? Scientists, experts, hospitals, nurses and doctors..... do not agree with you.

** What evidence do you have that mask is not effective?


** According to you the WHO organization does not suggest people wear mask. Really? I mean Really? Do you have any evidence to prove that?

Andy ....... This is my post #155.

** I asked you several questions here. Where are the answer?

Andy. .........From my post #155. I asked you 5 questions to prove it. I have not heard from you.

Then you can't read. And if you can't read my posts up till now, nor respond to a single thing I said.... then there is no point in answering any other questions you have.

If you can't read what you don't want to understand thus far, then you won't read any other answers to your questions.

 

[Dogbiscuit]

If he read what I said then he said you said it after I said that and I dont understand what he said after he said you said.
Now how can I be more clear ?

 

[charwin95]

Bologna.

"The research also found that if interventions in the country could have been conducted one week, two weeks, or three weeks earlier, cases could have been reduced by 66 percent, 86 percent and 95 percent respectively – significantly limiting the geographical spread of the disease. However, if NPIs were conducted one week, two weeks, or three weeks later than they were, the number of cases may have shown a 3-fold, 7-fold, or 18-fold increase, respectively."

“Our study demonstrates how important it is for countries which are facing an imminent outbreak to proactively plan a coordinated response which swiftly tackles the spread of the disease on a number of fronts."

When this report came out we had very few cases, however anyone with at brain understood what it meant for us.

Furthermore we had 50 state responses not a comprehensive national one.

Early And Combined Interventions Crucial In Tackling Covid-19 Spread In China | University of Southampton

A study by the University of Southampton examining non-pharmaceutical interventions (NPIs) in response to the new coronavirus (COVID-19) in China shows that a range of early, coordinated and targeted measures are needed to help significantly reduce its spread.

www.southampton.ac.uk

I request that you find a different country to make that claim on.

I don't believe China. The only time China is not lying, is when they are not saying anything.

This is a country that jailed the doctors who warned them about Covid-19 to begin with. They have complete control over the media, and there is non-government journalism at all.

This is like believing the child mortality rates in Cuba, when we know doctors simply refuse to report deaths because the government will fire them, and they'll end up sifting through garbage cans.

Or Venezuela claiming the unemployment rate is low, because 4 million people fled the country, so they are no longer counted as unemployed.

If you are going to trust the numbers from China, then you might as well assume everything Trump says is divine truth as well.

So what if China is and was lying? Is that supposed to be an excuse for Trump failures handling the Coronavirus?

The difference between us and the Chinese general populations. They heavily wear mask even inside their homes, even before the pandemic and very compliant. Here in US are fighting of stupid mask.

Well yes, actually. The basis of the argument is "see china did it better"... right but if they lied... then no they didn't.

The difference between us and the Chinese general populations. They heavily wear mask even inside their homes, even before the pandemic and very compliant

TRUE TRUE TRUE! Yes. Correct. You got it.

Do you not realize that you blew up your own position?

You stated the truth about China. Now.... can you think logically about the implications?

1. You are blaming Trump for that fact that culturally we are different than China. Do you think that if Obama was president right now, that everyone would magically become compliant slaves to the government?

Do you know why they are complaint slaves to the government in China? Because if they don't comply, they end up disappearing.

Is that what you want Trump to do? Start secret police, and making people disappear? Because that is in fact what you are advocating when you point to the "success of China on Covid".

But there is a second implication of your factually true statement.

2. Yes... *YES*... Chinese in China wear masks all the time. Very compliant as you said.

Do you not see a problem there? Can you not see it?

Chinese wear masks all the time. Very compliant. Follow all the government dictations.

Still don't see the problem? Where did Covid-19 originate?

Let's review shall we? China which has an extremely compliant population, where the government tosses people in jail for not complying, which has been wearing masks constantly.

Please explain how if mask wearing is so effective, how did Covid-19 even start in China, let alone become a pandemic? They were wearing masks for years before now, yet not only did Covid-19 start in China and killed thousands, but it spread world wide. Those masks and being compliant worked so well, didn't it?

And I never said we should follow Chinese government rules. All I said was we should do our own to protect ourselves and STOP and enough already to keep blaming China.

SO WHAT if it came from China? We should just keep playing dumb don’t wear your fucking mask hug people don’t worry about it? Because that is what you are trying to imply.

You can tell when people have lost their argument, when they stop arguing the evidence, and start screaming about what they think other people are implying.

So are you done here?

No I’m not done. I have to do something more important than hanging around here. What evidence have you provided?

I used your evidence. You provided the evidence, that I used against you.

YOU said the Chinese were wearing masks even before the out break. I agreed, and cited that as the logical reasoning that masks do not prevent Covid-19, because they did, then it should have never left China. They should never have had an outbreak to begin with.

Further, you pointed out that the Chinese have a different culture, one of compliance to a dangerous authoritarian regime, that jails doctors. I agreed, and cited that no matter who was in office, Trump or anyone else, that Americans would still be Americans, and that we wouldn't bend over to every single edict given by government.

You are asking for evidence of my position, when YOU gave the evidence of my position.

You are going in circles Andy. You used evidence what I told you. REALLY?

Let me repeat it again. PAY ATTENTION when Coronavirus outbreak in China started Chines in general don’t know what they have and don’t know what to do even with the mask. They used mask because of dirty air over and over....... PAY ATTENTION when it started they used the same attitude using mask over and over. By the time they know it’s dangerous it’s too late. What part of that don’t you understand.

That makes no sense. You are suggesting that masks only work, if they were not originally used because of dirty air? Now masks only work if your attitude is right?

They only work if you replace them over and over?

That's funny, because I don't know anyone anywhere, that is not using the same mask over and over. No one. The most hard core "must wear masks or the planet dies" people are all using the same mask over and over.

I'd be hard pressed to find a single person anywhere who is NOT using the same mask over and over.

If you really believe what you are saying, then I think you are nuts.

You are spinning and twisting around like a wet pretzel.
I told you over and over the mask behavior and attitude they have before the pandemic using dirty mask over and over for several days...... They also ban selling exotic animals for consumptions....... You don’t know anything about China.

Mask only now works because they are not using the same dirty mask over and over. Of course...... What part of that don’t you understand? They even wear mask inside their home. And I KNOW how you are going to come back with your rebuttal

You don’t know anyone NOT using the same mask over and over. I don’t. I replaced it twice a day depending how many times I go out. And I know several people and so are friends and families does do that.

You don’t know anyone NOT using same mask over and over. Are they using it over and over for several days?

Eight in 10 Americans wear mask. So you are the minority.

You don’t know any one NOT using the same mask over and over. That means they are using mask except you.

More Americans say they are regularly wearing masks in stores and other businesses

As the pandemic continues, a growing share of Americans say they are regularly wearing a face covering in stores and other businesses.

www.pewresearch.org

Eight in 10 Americans wear mask. So you are the minority.

What are you even talking about?

I've been wearing a mask since March. I'm in the minority of what? Once again, you have no point, and so you make up stuff.

Its actually quite funny. You haven't been able to make a single valid argument yet, but every post you start shrieking about how I'm "spinning and twisting around"... but then *YOU* are the one that has to make false accusations about the other person, to try and have a point?

Nah, if anyone is "spinning and twisting around" it's you.

You know nothing about me, yet claim I'm in the minority of Americans who don't wear masks?

I have followed every single guideline given about this Covid-19 crap. I have worn masks, socially distanced, and haven't gone to Church since March. My church still isn't open even now. (online church of course, but we haven't met at the Church building).

I have not used personal experience in our conversation, because the evidence alone is enough. The fact you have failed to refute a single point I've made, is proof the evidence alone is enough.

But, one of the reasons that I personally am convinced that all the mask wearing and social distancing, and lock downs are completely ineffective, and pointless.... is because I personally followed all of your guidelines, and so did everyone I know, and everyone still got sick.

I got sick. My parents got sick. My friends and neighbors got sick. My co-workers all got sick. Everyone I know got sick, and we all... ALL.... followed the mask wearing, lock downs, and social distancing guidelines.


*** If does that work? If you follow all the Covid-19 rules, and everyone still got sick.... explain?

You can't. I'm you'll blather on that we must not have followed all the rules, but know for a fact we did... and we still got sick.

So.... Yeah. But we don't need my personal experience. We can just look at the facts. None those rules have worked anywhere. None of them. And I realize you think your posts somehow contradicted my points... but that's because you obviously don't realize your posts contradicted nothing. You didn't. You keep saying the same utterly irrelevant statements, acting like you have a point, but you don't. None of them were valid counter arguments.

Sorry, but you are just wrong. None of those were good points. Or even valid. Either masks work or they don't. All masks get dirty. I don't see a single person using new masks every day.

Even the WHO said they don't recommend that healthy people wear masks, or that mask wearing is effective at all.

Rotten Bologna. You’ve been fighting using mask from the beginning NOW suddenly you are wearing mask then your relatives got sick. BULLSHIT Dude. I know you are loosing by using my own words against me.

You are LYING..... You said it over and over mask is NOT good. You are 100% anti mask. Do you expect me to believe that you really wore mask? Then SUDDENLY (now you are loosing) now you’ve used mask. Very funny. All anti mask are the minorities. That includes your lousy president.


Spinning? That is sad. I don’t spin anything, every single point I made, never did, talked to you straight to the point. You were using my own words to spin around. Sadly.

Of course I used own my experience. What do you expect? Suddenly you are now using your experience to make a point. Sadly.

According to you. I mean you. I failed to refute every single point you made. WRONG. I BLASTED you all the way over and over.

You got sick, your parents got sick, your neighbors got sick, your co workers ALL got sick. And they all wear mask. How many people is that? MY GOD..... GOOD LORD did you made god angry? Are you the center of epidemic? An (now you are using your experience) anti-mask talking? Do you expect me to believe that? Nah! I don’t believe you. Zero. Did you watched them at home or they have kids? I doubt it.

I can tell you alone that hispanics here in California they do wear mask when they go out or work but they still got sick and die. High percentage of Covid deaths here are hispanics. You know why? (Explanation) Most have crowded home and apartments with maximum or over capacity, using the same restrooms, too close and dont wear mask inside the house.

Trump’s orbit 12 or more people got sick non of them wear mask. Look at Trump’s rallies thousands don’t wear mask. How many of those do you think that got sick that they denied? How many of those do you think wear mask in their daily routine or at home?

I will ask you the same question again. If mask is not good the way you portrayed it. Then we should see thousands and thousands of doctors and nurses that got sick and die. Correct? So where are they? Explain that.

You are saying mask is not good anyway. So we should follow your belief don’t wear mask because it’s not good? Explain that.

According to you Andy. You don’t see a single person using new mask every day. Why? Because you don’t have experience or just plain not telling the truth. Are you saying that your co workers or you use the same mask every day they when they come to work? Really? Explain.


You said....I mean you Andy. Even WHO said they don’t recommend healthy people wear mask..... Can you prove that? Any link?

That’s the dumbest thing I ever heard. Because I’m healthy I should recklessly do not wear mask.... What if sat next, following, took over a sit of an infected person? What do you think the percentage of catching it with out mask? And why should I risk my health because of stupidity?


*** My explanation......
*** My explanation......
1. 8 out 10 wear mask. In 331+ US populations ...... Only 7 millions+so far got infected. If Americans didn’t wear mask you should see far higher than 7+ millions. Don’t you think?

2. If they followed. If they followed they still got sick. How do you even know that they really followed? Did they followed rules at home? Did they have kids running around? There are lots of factors that a person can get infected.

I asked you 4 questions here in this post. I expect an answer.

You’ve been fighting using mask from the beginning NOW suddenly you are wearing mask then your relatives got sick. BULLSHIT Dude. I know you are loosing by using my own words against me.

View attachment 400395

No, I'm not losing. Only in your own tiny little mind.

Yes have been wearing masks since March. Yes, everyone I know still got sick. No, I'm not lying simply because I must be or your pathetic ideology doesn't work.

You don’t see a single person using new mask every day. Why? Because you don’t have experience or just plain not telling the truth. Are you saying that your co workers or you use the same mask every day they when they come to work? Really? Explain.

Um, yes. That is exactly what I'm saying. All of them. All 300 people at the facility where I work, all use the same mask over and over. The only time someone uses a different mask, is when they leave their mask at home, and they go and get one of the cheap 25¢ cloth masks the company hands out. But I can tell you from direct personal knowledge, that the box of clothe masks has been sitting there for the last 2 months without being replaced.

I'm not sure what you want me to explain. They use the same mask over and over for this entire year. What more do you want me to explain?

My old company (I was laid off in April before I got this job), they all used the same masks every single day.

I will ask you the same question again. If mask is not good the way you portrayed it.Then we should see thousands and thousands of doctors and nurses that got sick and die. Correct? So where are they? Explain that.

That's a dumb statement. Saying masks are not effective, doesn't magically mean they cause people to die. Something that has no benefit, does not automatically mean it has a negative effect. You seem to be implying that somehow saying there is no evidence that masks prevent Covid, must mean that I think wearing a mask will somehow cause people to die. No.

As for asking if masks are not effective, why have we not seen nurses and doctors falling over in mass death....... That's pretty easy to explain. It's the same reason we don't see people falling over in mass deaths anywhere.

View attachment 400399

These are numbers from the CDC. The ratio of people who get sick and die, to the ratio of people who don't have any symptoms at all, is massively in favor of the latter.

In the absolute worst case Scenario, with the highest risk age group, you have barely a 0.09% chance of dying of Covid-19.

For the next age group up, 50 to 69 year olds, you have barely a 0.01% chance.

What that means is that 99% of all people, including those in hospitals who work as nurses and doctors.....

Will not only not die of Covid-19, they may never even know they have it. A doctor and a nurse, has a higher chance of dying in a car crash on the way to the hospital, then dying of Covid-19 they caught in the hospital from Covid-19 patients.

1. 8 out 10 wear mask. In 331+ US populations ...... Only 7 millions+so far got infected. If Americans didn’t wear mask you should see far higher than 7+ millions. Don’t you think?

No, I don't. There is no evidence to support that conclusion. That's just your opinion. That's fine to have that opinion, but there is zero evidence whatsoever. There is no data that masks have been even in the smallest way, effective at stopping Covid.

None. NONE. ZERO. That statement above is not evidence. That's opinion.

My opinion... no. I have read the documents, looked at the data, read the statements by WHO and other groups. None show that mask wearing would have reduced the number of Covid cases.

Oh! Andy

AGAIN. I asked you several questions. You have not answer all except pure nonsense rebuttal.

First of all you don’t have a clue of what you are talking about. NONE. I NEVER said mask will stop all deaths and infections but it will slow the spread of infections.


Regarding WHO..... You do not post. Repeat you do not post something that you cannot back up. I asked you twice about this BS. You came up empty. You lied.

You (Andy) posted previously that ALL of your coworkers wear mask but ALL got sick. You mentioned it here that you have 300 co workers. ALL 300 GOT SICK? 100% total wipe out? Really? I mean REALLY? You are lying.

You (Andy) is saying that ALL 300 wear cloth mask? ALL? You are talking about cloth mask that can be used over and over. But you have to wash it. Is that why ALL 300 of your coworkers including you got sick because they never wash it?

I’m in the medical instruments business I used 4 to 5 boxes (50 in each box) of disposable mask every day for my employees. Some bring their own cloth mask but most use the one I supplied. Two got sick badly but they admitted they went to a bachelorette party on Wednesday (off on Thursday & Friday) and wedding on Saturday by Monday morning they called sick.


Using car crash to explain your experience about Covid death is just pure amateur. You might as well use the death of H1N1.

Your chart fromCDC percentage of this and that and ages..... don’t mean a diddly squat. It’s a cut out and paste. Where’s the link?? You BS on the WHO. How do I know that chart came from CDC?

You can use your .00000001% BS however you want..... look at the number of deaths 200,000+ and counting. Meaning you are down playing the numbers of deaths and infections. How about the numbers of people that recover with long lasting damage to the lungs? Just because they are old they need to die? Thats the reason why that loser moron downplayed the severity of this crisis.

8 of 10 wear mask. only 7+ millions infections out of 313 millions populations. That is a very good odd. You don’t like it but it is what it is.

Your lousy leader get tested almost every day or every other day. Running around without a mask..... He got Covid-19.


Here is the link and latest from CDC dated October 2020 if you really want to see the truth and specific numbers of deaths and specific categories.

COVID-19 Provisional Counts - Weekly Updates by Select Demographic and Geographic Characteristics

Tabulated data on provisional COVID-19 deaths by age, sex, race and Hispanic origin, and comorbidities. Also includes an index of state-level and county-level mortality data available for download.

www.cdc.gov

 

[charwin95]

"The research also found that if interventions in the country could have been conducted one week, two weeks, or three weeks earlier, cases could have been reduced by 66 percent, 86 percent and 95 percent respectively – significantly limiting the geographical spread of the disease. However, if NPIs were conducted one week, two weeks, or three weeks later than they were, the number of cases may have shown a 3-fold, 7-fold, or 18-fold increase, respectively."

“Our study demonstrates how important it is for countries which are facing an imminent outbreak to proactively plan a coordinated response which swiftly tackles the spread of the disease on a number of fronts."

When this report came out we had very few cases, however anyone with at brain understood what it meant for us.

Furthermore we had 50 state responses not a comprehensive national one.

Early And Combined Interventions Crucial In Tackling Covid-19 Spread In China | University of Southampton

A study by the University of Southampton examining non-pharmaceutical interventions (NPIs) in response to the new coronavirus (COVID-19) in China shows that a range of early, coordinated and targeted measures are needed to help significantly reduce its spread.

www.southampton.ac.uk

I request that you find a different country to make that claim on.

I don't believe China. The only time China is not lying, is when they are not saying anything.

This is a country that jailed the doctors who warned them about Covid-19 to begin with. They have complete control over the media, and there is non-government journalism at all.

This is like believing the child mortality rates in Cuba, when we know doctors simply refuse to report deaths because the government will fire them, and they'll end up sifting through garbage cans.

Or Venezuela claiming the unemployment rate is low, because 4 million people fled the country, so they are no longer counted as unemployed.

If you are going to trust the numbers from China, then you might as well assume everything Trump says is divine truth as well.

So what if China is and was lying? Is that supposed to be an excuse for Trump failures handling the Coronavirus?

The difference between us and the Chinese general populations. They heavily wear mask even inside their homes, even before the pandemic and very compliant. Here in US are fighting of stupid mask.

Well yes, actually. The basis of the argument is "see china did it better"... right but if they lied... then no they didn't.

The difference between us and the Chinese general populations. They heavily wear mask even inside their homes, even before the pandemic and very compliant

TRUE TRUE TRUE! Yes. Correct. You got it.

Do you not realize that you blew up your own position?

You stated the truth about China. Now.... can you think logically about the implications?

1. You are blaming Trump for that fact that culturally we are different than China. Do you think that if Obama was president right now, that everyone would magically become compliant slaves to the government?

Do you know why they are complaint slaves to the government in China? Because if they don't comply, they end up disappearing.

Is that what you want Trump to do? Start secret police, and making people disappear? Because that is in fact what you are advocating when you point to the "success of China on Covid".

But there is a second implication of your factually true statement.

2. Yes... *YES*... Chinese in China wear masks all the time. Very compliant as you said.

Do you not see a problem there? Can you not see it?

Chinese wear masks all the time. Very compliant. Follow all the government dictations.

Still don't see the problem? Where did Covid-19 originate?

Let's review shall we? China which has an extremely compliant population, where the government tosses people in jail for not complying, which has been wearing masks constantly.

Please explain how if mask wearing is so effective, how did Covid-19 even start in China, let alone become a pandemic? They were wearing masks for years before now, yet not only did Covid-19 start in China and killed thousands, but it spread world wide. Those masks and being compliant worked so well, didn't it?

Mask in China. Those Chinese wear mask even before the pandemic because of dirty air. Like i posted many times I have business in China since 1995 that is why I speak Mandarin Chinese. And I wear mask every time I travel to China.

How did Chinese got infected and thousands deaths even wearing a mask? Read my post do not stare at it. Because Chinese are dirty and they didn’t knew how deadly the virus was before it became a pandemic so it spread like hell. But in general populations they learned the lessons the hard way.
Here in US we have 2 problems A. People like you who refuse to believe in science like mask . B. Denials that we have a problems.

If Obama or Biden is the president he will encourage Americans to wear mask and social distancing. Listen to science. Compared to Trump arrogantly anti mask and social distancing against his own policy.


If mask doesn’t work you should write or call the CDC, NIH and Trump administration to change this policies that mask is bad.

Mask in China. Those Chinese wear mask even before the pandemic because of dirty air. Like i posted many times I have business in China since 1995 that is why I speak Mandarin Chinese. And I wear mask every time I travel to China.

And it stopped Covid-19 instantly. That's why it never got out of China, and never became a pandemic.

Because Chinese are dirty and they didn’t knew how deadly the virus was before it became a pandemic so it spread like hell. But in general populations they learned the lessons the hard way.

Oh.... so dirty, is more important the mask wearing? Because I don't hear any politician including Trump, saying to be dirty.

What I hear them saying is that masks are not effective. Which your own post states.

That said, I don't know what you are talking about. I'm not say you are wrong. I don't know. I can't live your experience.

But I know Chinese people, who escaped from China to come to the US. Not one is dirty.

If Obama or Biden is the president he will encourage Americans to wear mask and social distancing. Listen to science. Compared to Trump arrogantly anti mask and social distancing against his own policy.

No. No American is going to sit there saying "Oh.... Obama has a mask, therefore I should."
Not true.

If mask doesn’t work you should write or call the CDC, NIH and Trump administration to change this policies that mask is bad.

Originally they didn't support wearing masks, until political pressure was put on them to change the policy.

Even the World Health Organization does not suggest people wear masks.

There is no evidence masks are effective. I don't need to write anyone. The evidence is already there.

I never said it stop instantly. I gave you an exact usages of mask in China. And who are you to dispute a pandemic?

China is dirty. You don’t even know what mean. I mean dirty like kids running around in the provinces without pants and they shit just around their houses, they butchered live animals using the same chopping board when cooked, wet markets, toilet is just a hole on the ground etc etc etc. You can even Google which country is the top 10 most polluted country in the world.

Pay Attention let me repeat it again. Most are accustomed using mask before the Pandemic because of dirty air using it over and over just like me when I was there. I only replaced it because I don’t know where I placed it.... Then Coronavirus came.... they used the same attitude not replacing dirty mask, they learned the hard way. NOW it’s a different attitude. Read my post do not stare at it.

You did not hear them saying China is dirty? Why should you wait to tell you China is dirty. I based it from my own experience.


** You heard from Chinese that mask is not effective. Really? Who? Do you have a proof?

According to you...... You know Chinese that escapes and they don’t look dirty. Do you expect them to fly with dirty clothes?

If Obama or Biden is the president they will ENCOURAGE people to wear mask. Pay attention read my post do not stare at it. Look at Biden encouraging people to wear mask blasting idiot Trump. Yes a president should set an example based from science not discouraged people not to wear mask.

** According to you..... NIH and CDC was only pressured politically to wear mask? Really? Do you have a proof or a link?


** If mask is not effective then we should see thousands of doctors and nurses that died of Coronavirus. Don’t you think? Scientists, experts, hospitals, nurses and doctors..... do not agree with you.

** What evidence do you have that mask is not effective?


** According to you the WHO organization does not suggest people wear mask. Really? I mean Really? Do you have any evidence to prove that?

Andy ....... This is my post #155.

** I asked you several questions here. Where are the answer?

Andy. .........From my post #155. I asked you 5 questions to prove it. I have not heard from you.

Then you can't read. And if you can't read my posts up till now, nor respond to a single thing I said.... then there is no point in answering any other questions you have.

If you can't read what you don't want to understand thus far, then you won't read any other answers to your questions.

Questions from post #155.
1. What happened to CDC and NIH?

2. You ( Andy) heard from Chinese that mask is not good. Do you have a proof? Or you are just lying.

3. If mask is not good the way you portrayed it. Then we should see doctors and nurses deaths by the thousands. Using car accidents as your excuse. Is dumb. Try again.

4. Your bull shit about WHO.

 

[Andylusion]

"The research also found that if interventions in the country could have been conducted one week, two weeks, or three weeks earlier, cases could have been reduced by 66 percent, 86 percent and 95 percent respectively – significantly limiting the geographical spread of the disease. However, if NPIs were conducted one week, two weeks, or three weeks later than they were, the number of cases may have shown a 3-fold, 7-fold, or 18-fold increase, respectively."

“Our study demonstrates how important it is for countries which are facing an imminent outbreak to proactively plan a coordinated response which swiftly tackles the spread of the disease on a number of fronts."

When this report came out we had very few cases, however anyone with at brain understood what it meant for us.

Furthermore we had 50 state responses not a comprehensive national one.

Early And Combined Interventions Crucial In Tackling Covid-19 Spread In China | University of Southampton

A study by the University of Southampton examining non-pharmaceutical interventions (NPIs) in response to the new coronavirus (COVID-19) in China shows that a range of early, coordinated and targeted measures are needed to help significantly reduce its spread.

www.southampton.ac.uk

I request that you find a different country to make that claim on.

I don't believe China. The only time China is not lying, is when they are not saying anything.

This is a country that jailed the doctors who warned them about Covid-19 to begin with. They have complete control over the media, and there is non-government journalism at all.

This is like believing the child mortality rates in Cuba, when we know doctors simply refuse to report deaths because the government will fire them, and they'll end up sifting through garbage cans.

Or Venezuela claiming the unemployment rate is low, because 4 million people fled the country, so they are no longer counted as unemployed.

If you are going to trust the numbers from China, then you might as well assume everything Trump says is divine truth as well.

So what if China is and was lying? Is that supposed to be an excuse for Trump failures handling the Coronavirus?

The difference between us and the Chinese general populations. They heavily wear mask even inside their homes, even before the pandemic and very compliant. Here in US are fighting of stupid mask.

Well yes, actually. The basis of the argument is "see china did it better"... right but if they lied... then no they didn't.

The difference between us and the Chinese general populations. They heavily wear mask even inside their homes, even before the pandemic and very compliant

TRUE TRUE TRUE! Yes. Correct. You got it.

Do you not realize that you blew up your own position?

You stated the truth about China. Now.... can you think logically about the implications?

1. You are blaming Trump for that fact that culturally we are different than China. Do you think that if Obama was president right now, that everyone would magically become compliant slaves to the government?

Do you know why they are complaint slaves to the government in China? Because if they don't comply, they end up disappearing.

Is that what you want Trump to do? Start secret police, and making people disappear? Because that is in fact what you are advocating when you point to the "success of China on Covid".

But there is a second implication of your factually true statement.

2. Yes... *YES*... Chinese in China wear masks all the time. Very compliant as you said.

Do you not see a problem there? Can you not see it?

Chinese wear masks all the time. Very compliant. Follow all the government dictations.

Still don't see the problem? Where did Covid-19 originate?

Let's review shall we? China which has an extremely compliant population, where the government tosses people in jail for not complying, which has been wearing masks constantly.

Please explain how if mask wearing is so effective, how did Covid-19 even start in China, let alone become a pandemic? They were wearing masks for years before now, yet not only did Covid-19 start in China and killed thousands, but it spread world wide. Those masks and being compliant worked so well, didn't it?

Mask in China. Those Chinese wear mask even before the pandemic because of dirty air. Like i posted many times I have business in China since 1995 that is why I speak Mandarin Chinese. And I wear mask every time I travel to China.

How did Chinese got infected and thousands deaths even wearing a mask? Read my post do not stare at it. Because Chinese are dirty and they didn’t knew how deadly the virus was before it became a pandemic so it spread like hell. But in general populations they learned the lessons the hard way.
Here in US we have 2 problems A. People like you who refuse to believe in science like mask . B. Denials that we have a problems.

If Obama or Biden is the president he will encourage Americans to wear mask and social distancing. Listen to science. Compared to Trump arrogantly anti mask and social distancing against his own policy.


If mask doesn’t work you should write or call the CDC, NIH and Trump administration to change this policies that mask is bad.

Mask in China. Those Chinese wear mask even before the pandemic because of dirty air. Like i posted many times I have business in China since 1995 that is why I speak Mandarin Chinese. And I wear mask every time I travel to China.

And it stopped Covid-19 instantly. That's why it never got out of China, and never became a pandemic.

Because Chinese are dirty and they didn’t knew how deadly the virus was before it became a pandemic so it spread like hell. But in general populations they learned the lessons the hard way.

Oh.... so dirty, is more important the mask wearing? Because I don't hear any politician including Trump, saying to be dirty.

What I hear them saying is that masks are not effective. Which your own post states.

That said, I don't know what you are talking about. I'm not say you are wrong. I don't know. I can't live your experience.

But I know Chinese people, who escaped from China to come to the US. Not one is dirty.

If Obama or Biden is the president he will encourage Americans to wear mask and social distancing. Listen to science. Compared to Trump arrogantly anti mask and social distancing against his own policy.

No. No American is going to sit there saying "Oh.... Obama has a mask, therefore I should."
Not true.

If mask doesn’t work you should write or call the CDC, NIH and Trump administration to change this policies that mask is bad.

Originally they didn't support wearing masks, until political pressure was put on them to change the policy.

Even the World Health Organization does not suggest people wear masks.

There is no evidence masks are effective. I don't need to write anyone. The evidence is already there.

I never said it stop instantly. I gave you an exact usages of mask in China. And who are you to dispute a pandemic?

China is dirty. You don’t even know what mean. I mean dirty like kids running around in the provinces without pants and they shit just around their houses, they butchered live animals using the same chopping board when cooked, wet markets, toilet is just a hole on the ground etc etc etc. You can even Google which country is the top 10 most polluted country in the world.

Pay Attention let me repeat it again. Most are accustomed using mask before the Pandemic because of dirty air using it over and over just like me when I was there. I only replaced it because I don’t know where I placed it.... Then Coronavirus came.... they used the same attitude not replacing dirty mask, they learned the hard way. NOW it’s a different attitude. Read my post do not stare at it.

You did not hear them saying China is dirty? Why should you wait to tell you China is dirty. I based it from my own experience.


** You heard from Chinese that mask is not effective. Really? Who? Do you have a proof?

According to you...... You know Chinese that escapes and they don’t look dirty. Do you expect them to fly with dirty clothes?

If Obama or Biden is the president they will ENCOURAGE people to wear mask. Pay attention read my post do not stare at it. Look at Biden encouraging people to wear mask blasting idiot Trump. Yes a president should set an example based from science not discouraged people not to wear mask.

** According to you..... NIH and CDC was only pressured politically to wear mask? Really? Do you have a proof or a link?


** If mask is not effective then we should see thousands of doctors and nurses that died of Coronavirus. Don’t you think? Scientists, experts, hospitals, nurses and doctors..... do not agree with you.

** What evidence do you have that mask is not effective?


** According to you the WHO organization does not suggest people wear mask. Really? I mean Really? Do you have any evidence to prove that?

Andy ....... This is my post #155.

** I asked you several questions here. Where are the answer?

Andy. .........From my post #155. I asked you 5 questions to prove it. I have not heard from you.

Then you can't read. And if you can't read my posts up till now, nor respond to a single thing I said.... then there is no point in answering any other questions you have.

If you can't read what you don't want to understand thus far, then you won't read any other answers to your questions.

Questions from post #155.
1. What happened to CDC and NIH?

2. You ( Andy) heard from Chinese that mask is not good. Do you have a proof? Or you are just lying.

3. If mask is not good the way you portrayed it. Then we should see doctors and nurses deaths by the thousands. Using car accidents as your excuse. Is dumb. Try again.

4. Your bull shit about WHO.

1. I just posted from the CDC.

2. I never said "I heard from Chinese" anything.

3. My response for why doctors and nurses are not dying in mass, is dead on accurate and based on the facts.

4. "If you do not have any respiratory symptoms such as fever, cough or runny nose, you do not need to wear a mask," Dr. April Baller, a public health specialist for the WHO, says in a video on the world health body's website posted in March. "Masks should only be used by health care workers, caretakers or by people who are sick with symptoms of fever and cough."



Evidence from Australia. Just found this on youtube. Pretty enlightening.

 

[Andylusion]

Bologna.

"The research also found that if interventions in the country could have been conducted one week, two weeks, or three weeks earlier, cases could have been reduced by 66 percent, 86 percent and 95 percent respectively – significantly limiting the geographical spread of the disease. However, if NPIs were conducted one week, two weeks, or three weeks later than they were, the number of cases may have shown a 3-fold, 7-fold, or 18-fold increase, respectively."

“Our study demonstrates how important it is for countries which are facing an imminent outbreak to proactively plan a coordinated response which swiftly tackles the spread of the disease on a number of fronts."

When this report came out we had very few cases, however anyone with at brain understood what it meant for us.

Furthermore we had 50 state responses not a comprehensive national one.

Early And Combined Interventions Crucial In Tackling Covid-19 Spread In China | University of Southampton

A study by the University of Southampton examining non-pharmaceutical interventions (NPIs) in response to the new coronavirus (COVID-19) in China shows that a range of early, coordinated and targeted measures are needed to help significantly reduce its spread.

www.southampton.ac.uk

I request that you find a different country to make that claim on.

I don't believe China. The only time China is not lying, is when they are not saying anything.

This is a country that jailed the doctors who warned them about Covid-19 to begin with. They have complete control over the media, and there is non-government journalism at all.

This is like believing the child mortality rates in Cuba, when we know doctors simply refuse to report deaths because the government will fire them, and they'll end up sifting through garbage cans.

Or Venezuela claiming the unemployment rate is low, because 4 million people fled the country, so they are no longer counted as unemployed.

If you are going to trust the numbers from China, then you might as well assume everything Trump says is divine truth as well.

So what if China is and was lying? Is that supposed to be an excuse for Trump failures handling the Coronavirus?

The difference between us and the Chinese general populations. They heavily wear mask even inside their homes, even before the pandemic and very compliant. Here in US are fighting of stupid mask.

Well yes, actually. The basis of the argument is "see china did it better"... right but if they lied... then no they didn't.

The difference between us and the Chinese general populations. They heavily wear mask even inside their homes, even before the pandemic and very compliant

TRUE TRUE TRUE! Yes. Correct. You got it.

Do you not realize that you blew up your own position?

You stated the truth about China. Now.... can you think logically about the implications?

1. You are blaming Trump for that fact that culturally we are different than China. Do you think that if Obama was president right now, that everyone would magically become compliant slaves to the government?

Do you know why they are complaint slaves to the government in China? Because if they don't comply, they end up disappearing.

Is that what you want Trump to do? Start secret police, and making people disappear? Because that is in fact what you are advocating when you point to the "success of China on Covid".

But there is a second implication of your factually true statement.

2. Yes... *YES*... Chinese in China wear masks all the time. Very compliant as you said.

Do you not see a problem there? Can you not see it?

Chinese wear masks all the time. Very compliant. Follow all the government dictations.

Still don't see the problem? Where did Covid-19 originate?

Let's review shall we? China which has an extremely compliant population, where the government tosses people in jail for not complying, which has been wearing masks constantly.

Please explain how if mask wearing is so effective, how did Covid-19 even start in China, let alone become a pandemic? They were wearing masks for years before now, yet not only did Covid-19 start in China and killed thousands, but it spread world wide. Those masks and being compliant worked so well, didn't it?

And I never said we should follow Chinese government rules. All I said was we should do our own to protect ourselves and STOP and enough already to keep blaming China.

SO WHAT if it came from China? We should just keep playing dumb don’t wear your fucking mask hug people don’t worry about it? Because that is what you are trying to imply.

You can tell when people have lost their argument, when they stop arguing the evidence, and start screaming about what they think other people are implying.

So are you done here?

No I’m not done. I have to do something more important than hanging around here. What evidence have you provided?

I used your evidence. You provided the evidence, that I used against you.

YOU said the Chinese were wearing masks even before the out break. I agreed, and cited that as the logical reasoning that masks do not prevent Covid-19, because they did, then it should have never left China. They should never have had an outbreak to begin with.

Further, you pointed out that the Chinese have a different culture, one of compliance to a dangerous authoritarian regime, that jails doctors. I agreed, and cited that no matter who was in office, Trump or anyone else, that Americans would still be Americans, and that we wouldn't bend over to every single edict given by government.

You are asking for evidence of my position, when YOU gave the evidence of my position.

You are going in circles Andy. You used evidence what I told you. REALLY?

Let me repeat it again. PAY ATTENTION when Coronavirus outbreak in China started Chines in general don’t know what they have and don’t know what to do even with the mask. They used mask because of dirty air over and over....... PAY ATTENTION when it started they used the same attitude using mask over and over. By the time they know it’s dangerous it’s too late. What part of that don’t you understand.

That makes no sense. You are suggesting that masks only work, if they were not originally used because of dirty air? Now masks only work if your attitude is right?

They only work if you replace them over and over?

That's funny, because I don't know anyone anywhere, that is not using the same mask over and over. No one. The most hard core "must wear masks or the planet dies" people are all using the same mask over and over.

I'd be hard pressed to find a single person anywhere who is NOT using the same mask over and over.

If you really believe what you are saying, then I think you are nuts.

You are spinning and twisting around like a wet pretzel.
I told you over and over the mask behavior and attitude they have before the pandemic using dirty mask over and over for several days...... They also ban selling exotic animals for consumptions....... You don’t know anything about China.

Mask only now works because they are not using the same dirty mask over and over. Of course...... What part of that don’t you understand? They even wear mask inside their home. And I KNOW how you are going to come back with your rebuttal

You don’t know anyone NOT using the same mask over and over. I don’t. I replaced it twice a day depending how many times I go out. And I know several people and so are friends and families does do that.

You don’t know anyone NOT using same mask over and over. Are they using it over and over for several days?

Eight in 10 Americans wear mask. So you are the minority.

You don’t know any one NOT using the same mask over and over. That means they are using mask except you.

More Americans say they are regularly wearing masks in stores and other businesses

As the pandemic continues, a growing share of Americans say they are regularly wearing a face covering in stores and other businesses.

www.pewresearch.org

Eight in 10 Americans wear mask. So you are the minority.

What are you even talking about?

I've been wearing a mask since March. I'm in the minority of what? Once again, you have no point, and so you make up stuff.

Its actually quite funny. You haven't been able to make a single valid argument yet, but every post you start shrieking about how I'm "spinning and twisting around"... but then *YOU* are the one that has to make false accusations about the other person, to try and have a point?

Nah, if anyone is "spinning and twisting around" it's you.

You know nothing about me, yet claim I'm in the minority of Americans who don't wear masks?

I have followed every single guideline given about this Covid-19 crap. I have worn masks, socially distanced, and haven't gone to Church since March. My church still isn't open even now. (online church of course, but we haven't met at the Church building).

I have not used personal experience in our conversation, because the evidence alone is enough. The fact you have failed to refute a single point I've made, is proof the evidence alone is enough.

But, one of the reasons that I personally am convinced that all the mask wearing and social distancing, and lock downs are completely ineffective, and pointless.... is because I personally followed all of your guidelines, and so did everyone I know, and everyone still got sick.

I got sick. My parents got sick. My friends and neighbors got sick. My co-workers all got sick. Everyone I know got sick, and we all... ALL.... followed the mask wearing, lock downs, and social distancing guidelines.


*** If does that work? If you follow all the Covid-19 rules, and everyone still got sick.... explain?

You can't. I'm you'll blather on that we must not have followed all the rules, but know for a fact we did... and we still got sick.

So.... Yeah. But we don't need my personal experience. We can just look at the facts. None those rules have worked anywhere. None of them. And I realize you think your posts somehow contradicted my points... but that's because you obviously don't realize your posts contradicted nothing. You didn't. You keep saying the same utterly irrelevant statements, acting like you have a point, but you don't. None of them were valid counter arguments.

Sorry, but you are just wrong. None of those were good points. Or even valid. Either masks work or they don't. All masks get dirty. I don't see a single person using new masks every day.

Even the WHO said they don't recommend that healthy people wear masks, or that mask wearing is effective at all.

Rotten Bologna. You’ve been fighting using mask from the beginning NOW suddenly you are wearing mask then your relatives got sick. BULLSHIT Dude. I know you are loosing by using my own words against me.

You are LYING..... You said it over and over mask is NOT good. You are 100% anti mask. Do you expect me to believe that you really wore mask? Then SUDDENLY (now you are loosing) now you’ve used mask. Very funny. All anti mask are the minorities. That includes your lousy president.


Spinning? That is sad. I don’t spin anything, every single point I made, never did, talked to you straight to the point. You were using my own words to spin around. Sadly.

Of course I used own my experience. What do you expect? Suddenly you are now using your experience to make a point. Sadly.

According to you. I mean you. I failed to refute every single point you made. WRONG. I BLASTED you all the way over and over.

You got sick, your parents got sick, your neighbors got sick, your co workers ALL got sick. And they all wear mask. How many people is that? MY GOD..... GOOD LORD did you made god angry? Are you the center of epidemic? An (now you are using your experience) anti-mask talking? Do you expect me to believe that? Nah! I don’t believe you. Zero. Did you watched them at home or they have kids? I doubt it.

I can tell you alone that hispanics here in California they do wear mask when they go out or work but they still got sick and die. High percentage of Covid deaths here are hispanics. You know why? (Explanation) Most have crowded home and apartments with maximum or over capacity, using the same restrooms, too close and dont wear mask inside the house.

Trump’s orbit 12 or more people got sick non of them wear mask. Look at Trump’s rallies thousands don’t wear mask. How many of those do you think that got sick that they denied? How many of those do you think wear mask in their daily routine or at home?

I will ask you the same question again. If mask is not good the way you portrayed it. Then we should see thousands and thousands of doctors and nurses that got sick and die. Correct? So where are they? Explain that.

You are saying mask is not good anyway. So we should follow your belief don’t wear mask because it’s not good? Explain that.

According to you Andy. You don’t see a single person using new mask every day. Why? Because you don’t have experience or just plain not telling the truth. Are you saying that your co workers or you use the same mask every day they when they come to work? Really? Explain.


You said....I mean you Andy. Even WHO said they don’t recommend healthy people wear mask..... Can you prove that? Any link?

That’s the dumbest thing I ever heard. Because I’m healthy I should recklessly do not wear mask.... What if sat next, following, took over a sit of an infected person? What do you think the percentage of catching it with out mask? And why should I risk my health because of stupidity?


*** My explanation......
*** My explanation......
1. 8 out 10 wear mask. In 331+ US populations ...... Only 7 millions+so far got infected. If Americans didn’t wear mask you should see far higher than 7+ millions. Don’t you think?

2. If they followed. If they followed they still got sick. How do you even know that they really followed? Did they followed rules at home? Did they have kids running around? There are lots of factors that a person can get infected.

I asked you 4 questions here in this post. I expect an answer.

You’ve been fighting using mask from the beginning NOW suddenly you are wearing mask then your relatives got sick. BULLSHIT Dude. I know you are loosing by using my own words against me.

View attachment 400395

No, I'm not losing. Only in your own tiny little mind.

Yes have been wearing masks since March. Yes, everyone I know still got sick. No, I'm not lying simply because I must be or your pathetic ideology doesn't work.

You don’t see a single person using new mask every day. Why? Because you don’t have experience or just plain not telling the truth. Are you saying that your co workers or you use the same mask every day they when they come to work? Really? Explain.

Um, yes. That is exactly what I'm saying. All of them. All 300 people at the facility where I work, all use the same mask over and over. The only time someone uses a different mask, is when they leave their mask at home, and they go and get one of the cheap 25¢ cloth masks the company hands out. But I can tell you from direct personal knowledge, that the box of clothe masks has been sitting there for the last 2 months without being replaced.

I'm not sure what you want me to explain. They use the same mask over and over for this entire year. What more do you want me to explain?

My old company (I was laid off in April before I got this job), they all used the same masks every single day.

I will ask you the same question again. If mask is not good the way you portrayed it.Then we should see thousands and thousands of doctors and nurses that got sick and die. Correct? So where are they? Explain that.

That's a dumb statement. Saying masks are not effective, doesn't magically mean they cause people to die. Something that has no benefit, does not automatically mean it has a negative effect. You seem to be implying that somehow saying there is no evidence that masks prevent Covid, must mean that I think wearing a mask will somehow cause people to die. No.

As for asking if masks are not effective, why have we not seen nurses and doctors falling over in mass death....... That's pretty easy to explain. It's the same reason we don't see people falling over in mass deaths anywhere.

View attachment 400399

These are numbers from the CDC. The ratio of people who get sick and die, to the ratio of people who don't have any symptoms at all, is massively in favor of the latter.

In the absolute worst case Scenario, with the highest risk age group, you have barely a 0.09% chance of dying of Covid-19.

For the next age group up, 50 to 69 year olds, you have barely a 0.01% chance.

What that means is that 99% of all people, including those in hospitals who work as nurses and doctors.....

Will not only not die of Covid-19, they may never even know they have it. A doctor and a nurse, has a higher chance of dying in a car crash on the way to the hospital, then dying of Covid-19 they caught in the hospital from Covid-19 patients.

1. 8 out 10 wear mask. In 331+ US populations ...... Only 7 millions+so far got infected. If Americans didn’t wear mask you should see far higher than 7+ millions. Don’t you think?

No, I don't. There is no evidence to support that conclusion. That's just your opinion. That's fine to have that opinion, but there is zero evidence whatsoever. There is no data that masks have been even in the smallest way, effective at stopping Covid.

None. NONE. ZERO. That statement above is not evidence. That's opinion.

My opinion... no. I have read the documents, looked at the data, read the statements by WHO and other groups. None show that mask wearing would have reduced the number of Covid cases.

Oh! Andy

AGAIN. I asked you several questions. You have not answer all except pure nonsense rebuttal.

First of all you don’t have a clue of what you are talking about. NONE. I NEVER said mask will stop all deaths and infections but it will slow the spread of infections.


Regarding WHO..... You do not post. Repeat you do not post something that you cannot back up. I asked you twice about this BS. You came up empty. You lied.

You (Andy) posted previously that ALL of your coworkers wear mask but ALL got sick. You mentioned it here that you have 300 co workers. ALL 300 GOT SICK? 100% total wipe out? Really? I mean REALLY? You are lying.

You (Andy) is saying that ALL 300 wear cloth mask? ALL? You are talking about cloth mask that can be used over and over. But you have to wash it. Is that why ALL 300 of your coworkers including you got sick because they never wash it?

I’m in the medical instruments business I used 4 to 5 boxes (50 in each box) of disposable mask every day for my employees. Some bring their own cloth mask but most use the one I supplied. Two got sick badly but they admitted they went to a bachelorette party on Wednesday (off on Thursday & Friday) and wedding on Saturday by Monday morning they called sick.


Using car crash to explain your experience about Covid death is just pure amateur. You might as well use the death of H1N1.

Your chart fromCDC percentage of this and that and ages..... don’t mean a diddly squat. It’s a cut out and paste. Where’s the link?? You BS on the WHO. How do I know that chart came from CDC?

You can use your .00000001% BS however you want..... look at the number of deaths 200,000+ and counting. Meaning you are down playing the numbers of deaths and infections. How about the numbers of people that recover with long lasting damage to the lungs? Just because they are old they need to die? Thats the reason why that loser moron downplayed the severity of this crisis.

8 of 10 wear mask. only 7+ millions infections out of 313 millions populations. That is a very good odd. You don’t like it but it is what it is.

Your lousy leader get tested almost every day or every other day. Running around without a mask..... He got Covid-19.


Here is the link and latest from CDC dated October 2020 if you really want to see the truth and specific numbers of deaths and specific categories.

COVID-19 Provisional Counts - Weekly Updates by Select Demographic and Geographic Characteristics

Tabulated data on provisional COVID-19 deaths by age, sex, race and Hispanic origin, and comorbidities. Also includes an index of state-level and county-level mortality data available for download.

www.cdc.gov

There is no evidence that masks have slowed the infection.

Yes I know what I am talking about.

Healthcare Workers

COVID-19 guidance, tools, and resources for healthcare workers.

www.cdc.gov

Don't you look stupid?

Yes all 300 wear masks. And the company has everyone screened with a temperature check every morning at the start of the shift. And if you are caught not wearing your mask, the managers will come get you.

I did not say that all 300 got sick. I said everyone I know got sick. I don't know all 300 of the people who work there.

As for could it be because we don't wash our masks.... I have no idea, but that doesn't matter to my point. No one is washing their masks. I don't know single person anywhere that is.

Point being, if mask washing, or mask replacing is required for them to stop Covid-19, and no one is doing that... then Masks are doing nothing, and we need to stop this nonsense.

8 of 10 wear mask. only 7+ millions infections out of 313 millions populations. That is a very good odd. You don’t like it but it is what it is.

So here you are trying to claim that things are great, in a thread where you have been trying to make the case things are terrible, and Trump is to blame. 8 out of 10 wear masks, but things are terrible and it's Trumps fault? Again, I find it amusing you claim I'm the one twisting around, while you can't even go a couple of posts without contradicting your original position.

I don't believe there is only 7 million infections. We already know that the vast majority of people have no symptoms. Further, I know for a fact that most people who did get sick, didn't go to be tested. I didn't. My parents didn't. My friends didn't. My co-workers didn't.

MSN

There are likely 70 million people who have already had Covid-19.

Nor do I believe that the reason for the number of infections has anything to do with masks.

If you believe that masks are what prevented there being 300 million infections, then you truly are ignorant.

Face-off over face-masks: Europe’s latest north-south split

Southerners cover up in public; northerners don’t

www.economist.com

Denmark and Sweden actually discouraged use of masks. Less than 5% of the population said they wore a mask.

Yet both Denmark and Sweden had lower rates of infection than the US over the same time period.

 

[charwin95]

"The research also found that if interventions in the country could have been conducted one week, two weeks, or three weeks earlier, cases could have been reduced by 66 percent, 86 percent and 95 percent respectively – significantly limiting the geographical spread of the disease. However, if NPIs were conducted one week, two weeks, or three weeks later than they were, the number of cases may have shown a 3-fold, 7-fold, or 18-fold increase, respectively."

“Our study demonstrates how important it is for countries which are facing an imminent outbreak to proactively plan a coordinated response which swiftly tackles the spread of the disease on a number of fronts."

When this report came out we had very few cases, however anyone with at brain understood what it meant for us.

Furthermore we had 50 state responses not a comprehensive national one.

Early And Combined Interventions Crucial In Tackling Covid-19 Spread In China | University of Southampton

A study by the University of Southampton examining non-pharmaceutical interventions (NPIs) in response to the new coronavirus (COVID-19) in China shows that a range of early, coordinated and targeted measures are needed to help significantly reduce its spread.

www.southampton.ac.uk

I request that you find a different country to make that claim on.

I don't believe China. The only time China is not lying, is when they are not saying anything.

This is a country that jailed the doctors who warned them about Covid-19 to begin with. They have complete control over the media, and there is non-government journalism at all.

This is like believing the child mortality rates in Cuba, when we know doctors simply refuse to report deaths because the government will fire them, and they'll end up sifting through garbage cans.

Or Venezuela claiming the unemployment rate is low, because 4 million people fled the country, so they are no longer counted as unemployed.

If you are going to trust the numbers from China, then you might as well assume everything Trump says is divine truth as well.

So what if China is and was lying? Is that supposed to be an excuse for Trump failures handling the Coronavirus?

The difference between us and the Chinese general populations. They heavily wear mask even inside their homes, even before the pandemic and very compliant. Here in US are fighting of stupid mask.

Well yes, actually. The basis of the argument is "see china did it better"... right but if they lied... then no they didn't.

The difference between us and the Chinese general populations. They heavily wear mask even inside their homes, even before the pandemic and very compliant

TRUE TRUE TRUE! Yes. Correct. You got it.

Do you not realize that you blew up your own position?

You stated the truth about China. Now.... can you think logically about the implications?

1. You are blaming Trump for that fact that culturally we are different than China. Do you think that if Obama was president right now, that everyone would magically become compliant slaves to the government?

Do you know why they are complaint slaves to the government in China? Because if they don't comply, they end up disappearing.

Is that what you want Trump to do? Start secret police, and making people disappear? Because that is in fact what you are advocating when you point to the "success of China on Covid".

But there is a second implication of your factually true statement.

2. Yes... *YES*... Chinese in China wear masks all the time. Very compliant as you said.

Do you not see a problem there? Can you not see it?

Chinese wear masks all the time. Very compliant. Follow all the government dictations.

Still don't see the problem? Where did Covid-19 originate?

Let's review shall we? China which has an extremely compliant population, where the government tosses people in jail for not complying, which has been wearing masks constantly.

Please explain how if mask wearing is so effective, how did Covid-19 even start in China, let alone become a pandemic? They were wearing masks for years before now, yet not only did Covid-19 start in China and killed thousands, but it spread world wide. Those masks and being compliant worked so well, didn't it?

Mask in China. Those Chinese wear mask even before the pandemic because of dirty air. Like i posted many times I have business in China since 1995 that is why I speak Mandarin Chinese. And I wear mask every time I travel to China.

How did Chinese got infected and thousands deaths even wearing a mask? Read my post do not stare at it. Because Chinese are dirty and they didn’t knew how deadly the virus was before it became a pandemic so it spread like hell. But in general populations they learned the lessons the hard way.
Here in US we have 2 problems A. People like you who refuse to believe in science like mask . B. Denials that we have a problems.

If Obama or Biden is the president he will encourage Americans to wear mask and social distancing. Listen to science. Compared to Trump arrogantly anti mask and social distancing against his own policy.


If mask doesn’t work you should write or call the CDC, NIH and Trump administration to change this policies that mask is bad.

Mask in China. Those Chinese wear mask even before the pandemic because of dirty air. Like i posted many times I have business in China since 1995 that is why I speak Mandarin Chinese. And I wear mask every time I travel to China.

And it stopped Covid-19 instantly. That's why it never got out of China, and never became a pandemic.

Because Chinese are dirty and they didn’t knew how deadly the virus was before it became a pandemic so it spread like hell. But in general populations they learned the lessons the hard way.

Oh.... so dirty, is more important the mask wearing? Because I don't hear any politician including Trump, saying to be dirty.

What I hear them saying is that masks are not effective. Which your own post states.

That said, I don't know what you are talking about. I'm not say you are wrong. I don't know. I can't live your experience.

But I know Chinese people, who escaped from China to come to the US. Not one is dirty.

If Obama or Biden is the president he will encourage Americans to wear mask and social distancing. Listen to science. Compared to Trump arrogantly anti mask and social distancing against his own policy.

No. No American is going to sit there saying "Oh.... Obama has a mask, therefore I should."
Not true.

If mask doesn’t work you should write or call the CDC, NIH and Trump administration to change this policies that mask is bad.

Originally they didn't support wearing masks, until political pressure was put on them to change the policy.

Even the World Health Organization does not suggest people wear masks.

There is no evidence masks are effective. I don't need to write anyone. The evidence is already there.

I never said it stop instantly. I gave you an exact usages of mask in China. And who are you to dispute a pandemic?

China is dirty. You don’t even know what mean. I mean dirty like kids running around in the provinces without pants and they shit just around their houses, they butchered live animals using the same chopping board when cooked, wet markets, toilet is just a hole on the ground etc etc etc. You can even Google which country is the top 10 most polluted country in the world.

Pay Attention let me repeat it again. Most are accustomed using mask before the Pandemic because of dirty air using it over and over just like me when I was there. I only replaced it because I don’t know where I placed it.... Then Coronavirus came.... they used the same attitude not replacing dirty mask, they learned the hard way. NOW it’s a different attitude. Read my post do not stare at it.

You did not hear them saying China is dirty? Why should you wait to tell you China is dirty. I based it from my own experience.


** You heard from Chinese that mask is not effective. Really? Who? Do you have a proof?

According to you...... You know Chinese that escapes and they don’t look dirty. Do you expect them to fly with dirty clothes?

If Obama or Biden is the president they will ENCOURAGE people to wear mask. Pay attention read my post do not stare at it. Look at Biden encouraging people to wear mask blasting idiot Trump. Yes a president should set an example based from science not discouraged people not to wear mask.

** According to you..... NIH and CDC was only pressured politically to wear mask? Really? Do you have a proof or a link?


** If mask is not effective then we should see thousands of doctors and nurses that died of Coronavirus. Don’t you think? Scientists, experts, hospitals, nurses and doctors..... do not agree with you.

** What evidence do you have that mask is not effective?


** According to you the WHO organization does not suggest people wear mask. Really? I mean Really? Do you have any evidence to prove that?

Andy ....... This is my post #155.

** I asked you several questions here. Where are the answer?

Andy. .........From my post #155. I asked you 5 questions to prove it. I have not heard from you.

Then you can't read. And if you can't read my posts up till now, nor respond to a single thing I said.... then there is no point in answering any other questions you have.

If you can't read what you don't want to understand thus far, then you won't read any other answers to your questions.

Questions from post #155.
1. What happened to CDC and NIH?

2. You ( Andy) heard from Chinese that mask is not good. Do you have a proof? Or you are just lying.

3. If mask is not good the way you portrayed it. Then we should see doctors and nurses deaths by the thousands. Using car accidents as your excuse. Is dumb. Try again.

4. Your bull shit about WHO.

1. I just posted from the CDC.

2. I never said "I heard from Chinese" anything.

3. My response for why doctors and nurses are not dying in mass, is dead on accurate and based on the facts.

4. "If you do not have any respiratory symptoms such as fever, cough or runny nose, you do not need to wear a mask," Dr. April Baller, a public health specialist for the WHO, says in a video on the world health body's website posted in March. "Masks should only be used by health care workers, caretakers or by people who are sick with symptoms of fever and cough."



Evidence from Australia. Just found this on youtube. Pretty enlightening.

Oh Boy.
1. Your comments was the NIH and CDC was pressured politically to wear mask. Why don’t you read what you posted originally. You posted a chart but that has nothing to do with CDC being pressured politically.

2. Yes you did go back and read what you posted?

3. Wrong answer. Doctors, nurses and other hospital staffs wear mask 100% but we don’t see massive deaths of nurses, doctors, respiratory therapist and other hospital workers. Mask is NOT good according to you then we should have an epidemic in hospitals deaths of staff. You are wrong again.
4. That doesn’t make sense Dude. This is the dumbest thing I ever heard since the Covid-19 existed. Just because I’m healthy I don’t need to wear a mask? That is so stupid..... No one in the right mind will say something that dumb...... These kind of propaganda, misinformation and twisting will only come out from Fox News. Am I right?

That was the old WHO policy about mask before WHO and US declared Pandemic in mid March 2020. I know it has been updated. You are wrong again.

 

[charwin95]

Bologna.

"The research also found that if interventions in the country could have been conducted one week, two weeks, or three weeks earlier, cases could have been reduced by 66 percent, 86 percent and 95 percent respectively – significantly limiting the geographical spread of the disease. However, if NPIs were conducted one week, two weeks, or three weeks later than they were, the number of cases may have shown a 3-fold, 7-fold, or 18-fold increase, respectively."

“Our study demonstrates how important it is for countries which are facing an imminent outbreak to proactively plan a coordinated response which swiftly tackles the spread of the disease on a number of fronts."

When this report came out we had very few cases, however anyone with at brain understood what it meant for us.

Furthermore we had 50 state responses not a comprehensive national one.

Early And Combined Interventions Crucial In Tackling Covid-19 Spread In China | University of Southampton

A study by the University of Southampton examining non-pharmaceutical interventions (NPIs) in response to the new coronavirus (COVID-19) in China shows that a range of early, coordinated and targeted measures are needed to help significantly reduce its spread.

www.southampton.ac.uk

I request that you find a different country to make that claim on.

I don't believe China. The only time China is not lying, is when they are not saying anything.

This is a country that jailed the doctors who warned them about Covid-19 to begin with. They have complete control over the media, and there is non-government journalism at all.

This is like believing the child mortality rates in Cuba, when we know doctors simply refuse to report deaths because the government will fire them, and they'll end up sifting through garbage cans.

Or Venezuela claiming the unemployment rate is low, because 4 million people fled the country, so they are no longer counted as unemployed.

If you are going to trust the numbers from China, then you might as well assume everything Trump says is divine truth as well.

So what if China is and was lying? Is that supposed to be an excuse for Trump failures handling the Coronavirus?

The difference between us and the Chinese general populations. They heavily wear mask even inside their homes, even before the pandemic and very compliant. Here in US are fighting of stupid mask.

Well yes, actually. The basis of the argument is "see china did it better"... right but if they lied... then no they didn't.

The difference between us and the Chinese general populations. They heavily wear mask even inside their homes, even before the pandemic and very compliant

TRUE TRUE TRUE! Yes. Correct. You got it.

Do you not realize that you blew up your own position?

You stated the truth about China. Now.... can you think logically about the implications?

1. You are blaming Trump for that fact that culturally we are different than China. Do you think that if Obama was president right now, that everyone would magically become compliant slaves to the government?

Do you know why they are complaint slaves to the government in China? Because if they don't comply, they end up disappearing.

Is that what you want Trump to do? Start secret police, and making people disappear? Because that is in fact what you are advocating when you point to the "success of China on Covid".

But there is a second implication of your factually true statement.

2. Yes... *YES*... Chinese in China wear masks all the time. Very compliant as you said.

Do you not see a problem there? Can you not see it?

Chinese wear masks all the time. Very compliant. Follow all the government dictations.

Still don't see the problem? Where did Covid-19 originate?

Let's review shall we? China which has an extremely compliant population, where the government tosses people in jail for not complying, which has been wearing masks constantly.

Please explain how if mask wearing is so effective, how did Covid-19 even start in China, let alone become a pandemic? They were wearing masks for years before now, yet not only did Covid-19 start in China and killed thousands, but it spread world wide. Those masks and being compliant worked so well, didn't it?

And I never said we should follow Chinese government rules. All I said was we should do our own to protect ourselves and STOP and enough already to keep blaming China.

SO WHAT if it came from China? We should just keep playing dumb don’t wear your fucking mask hug people don’t worry about it? Because that is what you are trying to imply.

You can tell when people have lost their argument, when they stop arguing the evidence, and start screaming about what they think other people are implying.

So are you done here?

No I’m not done. I have to do something more important than hanging around here. What evidence have you provided?

I used your evidence. You provided the evidence, that I used against you.

YOU said the Chinese were wearing masks even before the out break. I agreed, and cited that as the logical reasoning that masks do not prevent Covid-19, because they did, then it should have never left China. They should never have had an outbreak to begin with.

Further, you pointed out that the Chinese have a different culture, one of compliance to a dangerous authoritarian regime, that jails doctors. I agreed, and cited that no matter who was in office, Trump or anyone else, that Americans would still be Americans, and that we wouldn't bend over to every single edict given by government.

You are asking for evidence of my position, when YOU gave the evidence of my position.

You are going in circles Andy. You used evidence what I told you. REALLY?

Let me repeat it again. PAY ATTENTION when Coronavirus outbreak in China started Chines in general don’t know what they have and don’t know what to do even with the mask. They used mask because of dirty air over and over....... PAY ATTENTION when it started they used the same attitude using mask over and over. By the time they know it’s dangerous it’s too late. What part of that don’t you understand.

That makes no sense. You are suggesting that masks only work, if they were not originally used because of dirty air? Now masks only work if your attitude is right?

They only work if you replace them over and over?

That's funny, because I don't know anyone anywhere, that is not using the same mask over and over. No one. The most hard core "must wear masks or the planet dies" people are all using the same mask over and over.

I'd be hard pressed to find a single person anywhere who is NOT using the same mask over and over.

If you really believe what you are saying, then I think you are nuts.

You are spinning and twisting around like a wet pretzel.
I told you over and over the mask behavior and attitude they have before the pandemic using dirty mask over and over for several days...... They also ban selling exotic animals for consumptions....... You don’t know anything about China.

Mask only now works because they are not using the same dirty mask over and over. Of course...... What part of that don’t you understand? They even wear mask inside their home. And I KNOW how you are going to come back with your rebuttal

You don’t know anyone NOT using the same mask over and over. I don’t. I replaced it twice a day depending how many times I go out. And I know several people and so are friends and families does do that.

You don’t know anyone NOT using same mask over and over. Are they using it over and over for several days?

Eight in 10 Americans wear mask. So you are the minority.

You don’t know any one NOT using the same mask over and over. That means they are using mask except you.

More Americans say they are regularly wearing masks in stores and other businesses

As the pandemic continues, a growing share of Americans say they are regularly wearing a face covering in stores and other businesses.

www.pewresearch.org

Eight in 10 Americans wear mask. So you are the minority.

What are you even talking about?

I've been wearing a mask since March. I'm in the minority of what? Once again, you have no point, and so you make up stuff.

Its actually quite funny. You haven't been able to make a single valid argument yet, but every post you start shrieking about how I'm "spinning and twisting around"... but then *YOU* are the one that has to make false accusations about the other person, to try and have a point?

Nah, if anyone is "spinning and twisting around" it's you.

You know nothing about me, yet claim I'm in the minority of Americans who don't wear masks?

I have followed every single guideline given about this Covid-19 crap. I have worn masks, socially distanced, and haven't gone to Church since March. My church still isn't open even now. (online church of course, but we haven't met at the Church building).

I have not used personal experience in our conversation, because the evidence alone is enough. The fact you have failed to refute a single point I've made, is proof the evidence alone is enough.

But, one of the reasons that I personally am convinced that all the mask wearing and social distancing, and lock downs are completely ineffective, and pointless.... is because I personally followed all of your guidelines, and so did everyone I know, and everyone still got sick.

I got sick. My parents got sick. My friends and neighbors got sick. My co-workers all got sick. Everyone I know got sick, and we all... ALL.... followed the mask wearing, lock downs, and social distancing guidelines.


*** If does that work? If you follow all the Covid-19 rules, and everyone still got sick.... explain?

You can't. I'm you'll blather on that we must not have followed all the rules, but know for a fact we did... and we still got sick.

So.... Yeah. But we don't need my personal experience. We can just look at the facts. None those rules have worked anywhere. None of them. And I realize you think your posts somehow contradicted my points... but that's because you obviously don't realize your posts contradicted nothing. You didn't. You keep saying the same utterly irrelevant statements, acting like you have a point, but you don't. None of them were valid counter arguments.

Sorry, but you are just wrong. None of those were good points. Or even valid. Either masks work or they don't. All masks get dirty. I don't see a single person using new masks every day.

Even the WHO said they don't recommend that healthy people wear masks, or that mask wearing is effective at all.

Rotten Bologna. You’ve been fighting using mask from the beginning NOW suddenly you are wearing mask then your relatives got sick. BULLSHIT Dude. I know you are loosing by using my own words against me.

You are LYING..... You said it over and over mask is NOT good. You are 100% anti mask. Do you expect me to believe that you really wore mask? Then SUDDENLY (now you are loosing) now you’ve used mask. Very funny. All anti mask are the minorities. That includes your lousy president.


Spinning? That is sad. I don’t spin anything, every single point I made, never did, talked to you straight to the point. You were using my own words to spin around. Sadly.

Of course I used own my experience. What do you expect? Suddenly you are now using your experience to make a point. Sadly.

According to you. I mean you. I failed to refute every single point you made. WRONG. I BLASTED you all the way over and over.

You got sick, your parents got sick, your neighbors got sick, your co workers ALL got sick. And they all wear mask. How many people is that? MY GOD..... GOOD LORD did you made god angry? Are you the center of epidemic? An (now you are using your experience) anti-mask talking? Do you expect me to believe that? Nah! I don’t believe you. Zero. Did you watched them at home or they have kids? I doubt it.

I can tell you alone that hispanics here in California they do wear mask when they go out or work but they still got sick and die. High percentage of Covid deaths here are hispanics. You know why? (Explanation) Most have crowded home and apartments with maximum or over capacity, using the same restrooms, too close and dont wear mask inside the house.

Trump’s orbit 12 or more people got sick non of them wear mask. Look at Trump’s rallies thousands don’t wear mask. How many of those do you think that got sick that they denied? How many of those do you think wear mask in their daily routine or at home?

I will ask you the same question again. If mask is not good the way you portrayed it. Then we should see thousands and thousands of doctors and nurses that got sick and die. Correct? So where are they? Explain that.

You are saying mask is not good anyway. So we should follow your belief don’t wear mask because it’s not good? Explain that.

According to you Andy. You don’t see a single person using new mask every day. Why? Because you don’t have experience or just plain not telling the truth. Are you saying that your co workers or you use the same mask every day they when they come to work? Really? Explain.


You said....I mean you Andy. Even WHO said they don’t recommend healthy people wear mask..... Can you prove that? Any link?

That’s the dumbest thing I ever heard. Because I’m healthy I should recklessly do not wear mask.... What if sat next, following, took over a sit of an infected person? What do you think the percentage of catching it with out mask? And why should I risk my health because of stupidity?


*** My explanation......
*** My explanation......
1. 8 out 10 wear mask. In 331+ US populations ...... Only 7 millions+so far got infected. If Americans didn’t wear mask you should see far higher than 7+ millions. Don’t you think?

2. If they followed. If they followed they still got sick. How do you even know that they really followed? Did they followed rules at home? Did they have kids running around? There are lots of factors that a person can get infected.

I asked you 4 questions here in this post. I expect an answer.

You’ve been fighting using mask from the beginning NOW suddenly you are wearing mask then your relatives got sick. BULLSHIT Dude. I know you are loosing by using my own words against me.

View attachment 400395

No, I'm not losing. Only in your own tiny little mind.

Yes have been wearing masks since March. Yes, everyone I know still got sick. No, I'm not lying simply because I must be or your pathetic ideology doesn't work.

You don’t see a single person using new mask every day. Why? Because you don’t have experience or just plain not telling the truth. Are you saying that your co workers or you use the same mask every day they when they come to work? Really? Explain.

Um, yes. That is exactly what I'm saying. All of them. All 300 people at the facility where I work, all use the same mask over and over. The only time someone uses a different mask, is when they leave their mask at home, and they go and get one of the cheap 25¢ cloth masks the company hands out. But I can tell you from direct personal knowledge, that the box of clothe masks has been sitting there for the last 2 months without being replaced.

I'm not sure what you want me to explain. They use the same mask over and over for this entire year. What more do you want me to explain?

My old company (I was laid off in April before I got this job), they all used the same masks every single day.

I will ask you the same question again. If mask is not good the way you portrayed it.Then we should see thousands and thousands of doctors and nurses that got sick and die. Correct? So where are they? Explain that.

That's a dumb statement. Saying masks are not effective, doesn't magically mean they cause people to die. Something that has no benefit, does not automatically mean it has a negative effect. You seem to be implying that somehow saying there is no evidence that masks prevent Covid, must mean that I think wearing a mask will somehow cause people to die. No.

As for asking if masks are not effective, why have we not seen nurses and doctors falling over in mass death....... That's pretty easy to explain. It's the same reason we don't see people falling over in mass deaths anywhere.

View attachment 400399

These are numbers from the CDC. The ratio of people who get sick and die, to the ratio of people who don't have any symptoms at all, is massively in favor of the latter.

In the absolute worst case Scenario, with the highest risk age group, you have barely a 0.09% chance of dying of Covid-19.

For the next age group up, 50 to 69 year olds, you have barely a 0.01% chance.

What that means is that 99% of all people, including those in hospitals who work as nurses and doctors.....

Will not only not die of Covid-19, they may never even know they have it. A doctor and a nurse, has a higher chance of dying in a car crash on the way to the hospital, then dying of Covid-19 they caught in the hospital from Covid-19 patients.

1. 8 out 10 wear mask. In 331+ US populations ...... Only 7 millions+so far got infected. If Americans didn’t wear mask you should see far higher than 7+ millions. Don’t you think?

No, I don't. There is no evidence to support that conclusion. That's just your opinion. That's fine to have that opinion, but there is zero evidence whatsoever. There is no data that masks have been even in the smallest way, effective at stopping Covid.

None. NONE. ZERO. That statement above is not evidence. That's opinion.

My opinion... no. I have read the documents, looked at the data, read the statements by WHO and other groups. None show that mask wearing would have reduced the number of Covid cases.

Oh! Andy

AGAIN. I asked you several questions. You have not answer all except pure nonsense rebuttal.

First of all you don’t have a clue of what you are talking about. NONE. I NEVER said mask will stop all deaths and infections but it will slow the spread of infections.


Regarding WHO..... You do not post. Repeat you do not post something that you cannot back up. I asked you twice about this BS. You came up empty. You lied.

You (Andy) posted previously that ALL of your coworkers wear mask but ALL got sick. You mentioned it here that you have 300 co workers. ALL 300 GOT SICK? 100% total wipe out? Really? I mean REALLY? You are lying.

You (Andy) is saying that ALL 300 wear cloth mask? ALL? You are talking about cloth mask that can be used over and over. But you have to wash it. Is that why ALL 300 of your coworkers including you got sick because they never wash it?

I’m in the medical instruments business I used 4 to 5 boxes (50 in each box) of disposable mask every day for my employees. Some bring their own cloth mask but most use the one I supplied. Two got sick badly but they admitted they went to a bachelorette party on Wednesday (off on Thursday & Friday) and wedding on Saturday by Monday morning they called sick.


Using car crash to explain your experience about Covid death is just pure amateur. You might as well use the death of H1N1.

Your chart fromCDC percentage of this and that and ages..... don’t mean a diddly squat. It’s a cut out and paste. Where’s the link?? You BS on the WHO. How do I know that chart came from CDC?

You can use your .00000001% BS however you want..... look at the number of deaths 200,000+ and counting. Meaning you are down playing the numbers of deaths and infections. How about the numbers of people that recover with long lasting damage to the lungs? Just because they are old they need to die? Thats the reason why that loser moron downplayed the severity of this crisis.

8 of 10 wear mask. only 7+ millions infections out of 313 millions populations. That is a very good odd. You don’t like it but it is what it is.

Your lousy leader get tested almost every day or every other day. Running around without a mask..... He got Covid-19.


Here is the link and latest from CDC dated October 2020 if you really want to see the truth and specific numbers of deaths and specific categories.

COVID-19 Provisional Counts - Weekly Updates by Select Demographic and Geographic Characteristics

Tabulated data on provisional COVID-19 deaths by age, sex, race and Hispanic origin, and comorbidities. Also includes an index of state-level and county-level mortality data available for download.

www.cdc.gov

There is no evidence that masks have slowed the infection.

Yes I know what I am talking about.

Healthcare Workers

COVID-19 guidance, tools, and resources for healthcare workers.

www.cdc.gov

Don't you look stupid?

Yes all 300 wear masks. And the company has everyone screened with a temperature check every morning at the start of the shift. And if you are caught not wearing your mask, the managers will come get you.

I did not say that all 300 got sick. I said everyone I know got sick. I don't know all 300 of the people who work there.


*** As for could it be because we don't wash our masks.... I have no idea, but that doesn't matter to my point. No one is washing their masks. I don't know single person anywhere that is.

Point being, if mask washing, or mask replacing is required for them to stop Covid-19, and no one is doing that... then Masks are doing nothing, and we need to stop this nonsense.

8 of 10 wear mask. only 7+ millions infections out of 313 millions populations. That is a very good odd. You don’t like it but it is what it is.

So here you are trying to claim that things are great, in a thread where you have been trying to make the case things are terrible, and Trump is to blame. 8 out of 10 wear masks, but things are terrible and it's Trumps fault? Again, I find it amusing you claim I'm the one twisting around, while you can't even go a couple of posts without contradicting your original position.

I don't believe there is only 7 million infections. We already know that the vast majority of people have no symptoms. Further, I know for a fact that most people who did get sick, didn't go to be tested. I didn't. My parents didn't. My friends didn't. My co-workers didn't.

MSN

There are likely 70 million people who have already had Covid-19.

Nor do I believe that the reason for the number of infections has anything to do with masks.

If you believe that masks are what prevented there being 300 million infections, then you truly are ignorant.

Face-off over face-masks: Europe’s latest north-south split

Southerners cover up in public; northerners don’t

www.economist.com

Denmark and Sweden actually discouraged use of masks. Less than 5% of the population said they wore a mask.

Yet both Denmark and Sweden had lower rates of infection than the US over the same time period.

NO you don’t know what you are talking about. I look stupid? Stop you are tickling me. It’s laughable when you are posting against science, lying and just pure BS.

Here is a very good example of you BS from your post #193 ........... “All your co workers got sick”. ALL 300. You are lying again.

Your links. What is that has anything to do with what you believed? Did you even read what it mean? Read and explain to me what that mean and compared to your lousy opinion.

*** You don’t know all your 300 coworkers, you don’t know if they are washing or replacing their mask every day..... YOU don’t know ANYTHING period but you keep blabbering about your coworkers didn’t do this and did that. That’s silly.

Let say you wear mask.... there are several places that you can get infected even if you wear a mask.... Like when you go to groceries, get a gas, don’t wash your hands, handles of your restrooms and door entrances. Do you wipe them with anti bacterial?

RIGHT NOW. The best way to fight this Pandemic is to wear a mask. That is based from science of the NIH, CDC, doctors and hospitals and Trump Coronavirus (Hypocrite) policy. If you have a problem with that that is your problem. I don’t care. Don’t wear mask but don’t stay close to me.


What basis do you have that mask doesn’t help slow the spread of coronavirus?


You (Andy) said...... “Further, I know for a fact that most people who did get sick, didn't go to be tested. I didn't. My parents didn't. My friends didn't. My co-workers didn't.”.......... HOW IN THE HELL do you know you are sick without being tested? You have the symptoms.... Oh I’m sick I’m just going to sit here and die and don’t worry about it. That is the DUMBEST and STUPIDEST thing I ever heard since this CV hit US........... You, your parents, your friends, all your 300 coworkers got sick and just sat there? REALLY? Talking about stupid.

As far as twisting NO I did not twist anything on my post because I don’t need to but you did. That is why I keep saying “you (Andy)” to make sure you don’t twist what I’ve just said.

As far as Trump a real piece of shit. Yes he is responsible for these deaths, infections crisis and economic crisis. Who else do you think should take the blame? You gave him credits during good times.... he should take the credits during bad times....... that is just fair....... Yes we know the CV came from China, China, China .... But that doesn’t mean we have to act STUPID (like mask), play dumb, play down, finger pointing, this a Democrat hoax, keeps blaming and spread misinformation.

On top of being racist dog shit and inciting violence against his own fellow Americans the democrats, look at him from the beginning February till today October still playing it down spreading misinformation. Like no big deal it will just miraculously disappear. His attitude is like they have underlying illness diabetes, heart, kidney, hb and they are old anyway so who cares? Does he give a shit? FUCK NO. According to Trump mask is not good because a waitress told him. He even mocked Biden for following Trump policy about mask........ He literally destroyed and fucked up this country almost on purpose.

Now you tell me what is this president good for?

 

[miketx]

The democratic lies that Trump "failed on COVID" are nothing more than vague, unsupported personal attacks.

First - it is the Democrats holding up COVID relief checks, not Trump. There is currently a bill ready for Pelosi to sign to send us checks, but she will not sign it because it would make Trump look good, and she would rather see US suffering.

Second: The U.S. is currently in the #1 position in the world for economic recovery since COVID hit. Our post-pandemic GDP (gross domestic product) is the best in the world. That can only come from excellent economic management by the government in the face of a humanitarian crisis that CHINA is to blame for - not Trump.

Third: I keep hearing that "our COVID deaths are the worst in the world - worse than Europe." Another effing LIE! Our fatality rate is #9 in the world, not the worst. Italy, Germany, Spain and the UK are far worse. Furthermore, we had a system where every death that happened in 2020 was chalked up to COVID, no matter how people died. The truth is the average age of a recorded COVID fatality in the U.S. was a person over 70, with co-morbidities (other problems that also could have killed them). Take away New York alone and our numbers would be far better. Thanks, Cuomo.

Worst of all, the Democrats are purposely keeping the economy closed and citizens denied relief solely because they need to make Trump look as bad as possible to win the election. Is that the mentality you want in our leaders?

Well it's simple really, you just have to believe in magic. Then it all becomes true. Magic!

 

[charwin95]

Bologna.

"The research also found that if interventions in the country could have been conducted one week, two weeks, or three weeks earlier, cases could have been reduced by 66 percent, 86 percent and 95 percent respectively – significantly limiting the geographical spread of the disease. However, if NPIs were conducted one week, two weeks, or three weeks later than they were, the number of cases may have shown a 3-fold, 7-fold, or 18-fold increase, respectively."

“Our study demonstrates how important it is for countries which are facing an imminent outbreak to proactively plan a coordinated response which swiftly tackles the spread of the disease on a number of fronts."

When this report came out we had very few cases, however anyone with at brain understood what it meant for us.

Furthermore we had 50 state responses not a comprehensive national one.

Early And Combined Interventions Crucial In Tackling Covid-19 Spread In China | University of Southampton

A study by the University of Southampton examining non-pharmaceutical interventions (NPIs) in response to the new coronavirus (COVID-19) in China shows that a range of early, coordinated and targeted measures are needed to help significantly reduce its spread.

www.southampton.ac.uk

I request that you find a different country to make that claim on.

I don't believe China. The only time China is not lying, is when they are not saying anything.

This is a country that jailed the doctors who warned them about Covid-19 to begin with. They have complete control over the media, and there is non-government journalism at all.

This is like believing the child mortality rates in Cuba, when we know doctors simply refuse to report deaths because the government will fire them, and they'll end up sifting through garbage cans.

Or Venezuela claiming the unemployment rate is low, because 4 million people fled the country, so they are no longer counted as unemployed.

If you are going to trust the numbers from China, then you might as well assume everything Trump says is divine truth as well.

So what if China is and was lying? Is that supposed to be an excuse for Trump failures handling the Coronavirus?

The difference between us and the Chinese general populations. They heavily wear mask even inside their homes, even before the pandemic and very compliant. Here in US are fighting of stupid mask.

Well yes, actually. The basis of the argument is "see china did it better"... right but if they lied... then no they didn't.

The difference between us and the Chinese general populations. They heavily wear mask even inside their homes, even before the pandemic and very compliant

TRUE TRUE TRUE! Yes. Correct. You got it.

Do you not realize that you blew up your own position?

You stated the truth about China. Now.... can you think logically about the implications?

1. You are blaming Trump for that fact that culturally we are different than China. Do you think that if Obama was president right now, that everyone would magically become compliant slaves to the government?

Do you know why they are complaint slaves to the government in China? Because if they don't comply, they end up disappearing.

Is that what you want Trump to do? Start secret police, and making people disappear? Because that is in fact what you are advocating when you point to the "success of China on Covid".

But there is a second implication of your factually true statement.

2. Yes... *YES*... Chinese in China wear masks all the time. Very compliant as you said.

Do you not see a problem there? Can you not see it?

Chinese wear masks all the time. Very compliant. Follow all the government dictations.

Still don't see the problem? Where did Covid-19 originate?

Let's review shall we? China which has an extremely compliant population, where the government tosses people in jail for not complying, which has been wearing masks constantly.

Please explain how if mask wearing is so effective, how did Covid-19 even start in China, let alone become a pandemic? They were wearing masks for years before now, yet not only did Covid-19 start in China and killed thousands, but it spread world wide. Those masks and being compliant worked so well, didn't it?

And I never said we should follow Chinese government rules. All I said was we should do our own to protect ourselves and STOP and enough already to keep blaming China.

SO WHAT if it came from China? We should just keep playing dumb don’t wear your fucking mask hug people don’t worry about it? Because that is what you are trying to imply.

You can tell when people have lost their argument, when they stop arguing the evidence, and start screaming about what they think other people are implying.

So are you done here?

No I’m not done. I have to do something more important than hanging around here. What evidence have you provided?

I used your evidence. You provided the evidence, that I used against you.

YOU said the Chinese were wearing masks even before the out break. I agreed, and cited that as the logical reasoning that masks do not prevent Covid-19, because they did, then it should have never left China. They should never have had an outbreak to begin with.

Further, you pointed out that the Chinese have a different culture, one of compliance to a dangerous authoritarian regime, that jails doctors. I agreed, and cited that no matter who was in office, Trump or anyone else, that Americans would still be Americans, and that we wouldn't bend over to every single edict given by government.

You are asking for evidence of my position, when YOU gave the evidence of my position.

You are going in circles Andy. You used evidence what I told you. REALLY?

Let me repeat it again. PAY ATTENTION when Coronavirus outbreak in China started Chines in general don’t know what they have and don’t know what to do even with the mask. They used mask because of dirty air over and over....... PAY ATTENTION when it started they used the same attitude using mask over and over. By the time they know it’s dangerous it’s too late. What part of that don’t you understand.

That makes no sense. You are suggesting that masks only work, if they were not originally used because of dirty air? Now masks only work if your attitude is right?

They only work if you replace them over and over?

That's funny, because I don't know anyone anywhere, that is not using the same mask over and over. No one. The most hard core "must wear masks or the planet dies" people are all using the same mask over and over.

I'd be hard pressed to find a single person anywhere who is NOT using the same mask over and over.

If you really believe what you are saying, then I think you are nuts.

You are spinning and twisting around like a wet pretzel.
I told you over and over the mask behavior and attitude they have before the pandemic using dirty mask over and over for several days...... They also ban selling exotic animals for consumptions....... You don’t know anything about China.

Mask only now works because they are not using the same dirty mask over and over. Of course...... What part of that don’t you understand? They even wear mask inside their home. And I KNOW how you are going to come back with your rebuttal

You don’t know anyone NOT using the same mask over and over. I don’t. I replaced it twice a day depending how many times I go out. And I know several people and so are friends and families does do that.

You don’t know anyone NOT using same mask over and over. Are they using it over and over for several days?

Eight in 10 Americans wear mask. So you are the minority.

You don’t know any one NOT using the same mask over and over. That means they are using mask except you.

More Americans say they are regularly wearing masks in stores and other businesses

As the pandemic continues, a growing share of Americans say they are regularly wearing a face covering in stores and other businesses.

www.pewresearch.org

Eight in 10 Americans wear mask. So you are the minority.

What are you even talking about?

I've been wearing a mask since March. I'm in the minority of what? Once again, you have no point, and so you make up stuff.

Its actually quite funny. You haven't been able to make a single valid argument yet, but every post you start shrieking about how I'm "spinning and twisting around"... but then *YOU* are the one that has to make false accusations about the other person, to try and have a point?

Nah, if anyone is "spinning and twisting around" it's you.

You know nothing about me, yet claim I'm in the minority of Americans who don't wear masks?

I have followed every single guideline given about this Covid-19 crap. I have worn masks, socially distanced, and haven't gone to Church since March. My church still isn't open even now. (online church of course, but we haven't met at the Church building).

I have not used personal experience in our conversation, because the evidence alone is enough. The fact you have failed to refute a single point I've made, is proof the evidence alone is enough.

But, one of the reasons that I personally am convinced that all the mask wearing and social distancing, and lock downs are completely ineffective, and pointless.... is because I personally followed all of your guidelines, and so did everyone I know, and everyone still got sick.

I got sick. My parents got sick. My friends and neighbors got sick. My co-workers all got sick. Everyone I know got sick, and we all... ALL.... followed the mask wearing, lock downs, and social distancing guidelines.


*** If does that work? If you follow all the Covid-19 rules, and everyone still got sick.... explain?

You can't. I'm you'll blather on that we must not have followed all the rules, but know for a fact we did... and we still got sick.

So.... Yeah. But we don't need my personal experience. We can just look at the facts. None those rules have worked anywhere. None of them. And I realize you think your posts somehow contradicted my points... but that's because you obviously don't realize your posts contradicted nothing. You didn't. You keep saying the same utterly irrelevant statements, acting like you have a point, but you don't. None of them were valid counter arguments.

Sorry, but you are just wrong. None of those were good points. Or even valid. Either masks work or they don't. All masks get dirty. I don't see a single person using new masks every day.

Even the WHO said they don't recommend that healthy people wear masks, or that mask wearing is effective at all.

Rotten Bologna. You’ve been fighting using mask from the beginning NOW suddenly you are wearing mask then your relatives got sick. BULLSHIT Dude. I know you are loosing by using my own words against me.

You are LYING..... You said it over and over mask is NOT good. You are 100% anti mask. Do you expect me to believe that you really wore mask? Then SUDDENLY (now you are loosing) now you’ve used mask. Very funny. All anti mask are the minorities. That includes your lousy president.


Spinning? That is sad. I don’t spin anything, every single point I made, never did, talked to you straight to the point. You were using my own words to spin around. Sadly.

Of course I used own my experience. What do you expect? Suddenly you are now using your experience to make a point. Sadly.

According to you. I mean you. I failed to refute every single point you made. WRONG. I BLASTED you all the way over and over.

You got sick, your parents got sick, your neighbors got sick, your co workers ALL got sick. And they all wear mask. How many people is that? MY GOD..... GOOD LORD did you made god angry? Are you the center of epidemic? An (now you are using your experience) anti-mask talking? Do you expect me to believe that? Nah! I don’t believe you. Zero. Did you watched them at home or they have kids? I doubt it.

I can tell you alone that hispanics here in California they do wear mask when they go out or work but they still got sick and die. High percentage of Covid deaths here are hispanics. You know why? (Explanation) Most have crowded home and apartments with maximum or over capacity, using the same restrooms, too close and dont wear mask inside the house.

Trump’s orbit 12 or more people got sick non of them wear mask. Look at Trump’s rallies thousands don’t wear mask. How many of those do you think that got sick that they denied? How many of those do you think wear mask in their daily routine or at home?

I will ask you the same question again. If mask is not good the way you portrayed it. Then we should see thousands and thousands of doctors and nurses that got sick and die. Correct? So where are they? Explain that.

You are saying mask is not good anyway. So we should follow your belief don’t wear mask because it’s not good? Explain that.

According to you Andy. You don’t see a single person using new mask every day. Why? Because you don’t have experience or just plain not telling the truth. Are you saying that your co workers or you use the same mask every day they when they come to work? Really? Explain.


You said....I mean you Andy. Even WHO said they don’t recommend healthy people wear mask..... Can you prove that? Any link?

That’s the dumbest thing I ever heard. Because I’m healthy I should recklessly do not wear mask.... What if sat next, following, took over a sit of an infected person? What do you think the percentage of catching it with out mask? And why should I risk my health because of stupidity?


*** My explanation......
*** My explanation......
1. 8 out 10 wear mask. In 331+ US populations ...... Only 7 millions+so far got infected. If Americans didn’t wear mask you should see far higher than 7+ millions. Don’t you think?

2. If they followed. If they followed they still got sick. How do you even know that they really followed? Did they followed rules at home? Did they have kids running around? There are lots of factors that a person can get infected.

I asked you 4 questions here in this post. I expect an answer.

You’ve been fighting using mask from the beginning NOW suddenly you are wearing mask then your relatives got sick. BULLSHIT Dude. I know you are loosing by using my own words against me.

View attachment 400395

No, I'm not losing. Only in your own tiny little mind.

Yes have been wearing masks since March. Yes, everyone I know still got sick. No, I'm not lying simply because I must be or your pathetic ideology doesn't work.

You don’t see a single person using new mask every day. Why? Because you don’t have experience or just plain not telling the truth. Are you saying that your co workers or you use the same mask every day they when they come to work? Really? Explain.

Um, yes. That is exactly what I'm saying. All of them. All 300 people at the facility where I work, all use the same mask over and over. The only time someone uses a different mask, is when they leave their mask at home, and they go and get one of the cheap 25¢ cloth masks the company hands out. But I can tell you from direct personal knowledge, that the box of clothe masks has been sitting there for the last 2 months without being replaced.

I'm not sure what you want me to explain. They use the same mask over and over for this entire year. What more do you want me to explain?

My old company (I was laid off in April before I got this job), they all used the same masks every single day.

I will ask you the same question again. If mask is not good the way you portrayed it.Then we should see thousands and thousands of doctors and nurses that got sick and die. Correct? So where are they? Explain that.

That's a dumb statement. Saying masks are not effective, doesn't magically mean they cause people to die. Something that has no benefit, does not automatically mean it has a negative effect. You seem to be implying that somehow saying there is no evidence that masks prevent Covid, must mean that I think wearing a mask will somehow cause people to die. No.

As for asking if masks are not effective, why have we not seen nurses and doctors falling over in mass death....... That's pretty easy to explain. It's the same reason we don't see people falling over in mass deaths anywhere.

View attachment 400399

These are numbers from the CDC. The ratio of people who get sick and die, to the ratio of people who don't have any symptoms at all, is massively in favor of the latter.

In the absolute worst case Scenario, with the highest risk age group, you have barely a 0.09% chance of dying of Covid-19.

For the next age group up, 50 to 69 year olds, you have barely a 0.01% chance.

What that means is that 99% of all people, including those in hospitals who work as nurses and doctors.....

Will not only not die of Covid-19, they may never even know they have it. A doctor and a nurse, has a higher chance of dying in a car crash on the way to the hospital, then dying of Covid-19 they caught in the hospital from Covid-19 patients.

1. 8 out 10 wear mask. In 331+ US populations ...... Only 7 millions+so far got infected. If Americans didn’t wear mask you should see far higher than 7+ millions. Don’t you think?

No, I don't. There is no evidence to support that conclusion. That's just your opinion. That's fine to have that opinion, but there is zero evidence whatsoever. There is no data that masks have been even in the smallest way, effective at stopping Covid.

None. NONE. ZERO. That statement above is not evidence. That's opinion.

My opinion... no. I have read the documents, looked at the data, read the statements by WHO and other groups. None show that mask wearing would have reduced the number of Covid cases.

Oh! Andy

AGAIN. I asked you several questions. You have not answer all except pure nonsense rebuttal.

First of all you don’t have a clue of what you are talking about. NONE. I NEVER said mask will stop all deaths and infections but it will slow the spread of infections.


Regarding WHO..... You do not post. Repeat you do not post something that you cannot back up. I asked you twice about this BS. You came up empty. You lied.

You (Andy) posted previously that ALL of your coworkers wear mask but ALL got sick. You mentioned it here that you have 300 co workers. ALL 300 GOT SICK? 100% total wipe out? Really? I mean REALLY? You are lying.

You (Andy) is saying that ALL 300 wear cloth mask? ALL? You are talking about cloth mask that can be used over and over. But you have to wash it. Is that why ALL 300 of your coworkers including you got sick because they never wash it?

I’m in the medical instruments business I used 4 to 5 boxes (50 in each box) of disposable mask every day for my employees. Some bring their own cloth mask but most use the one I supplied. Two got sick badly but they admitted they went to a bachelorette party on Wednesday (off on Thursday & Friday) and wedding on Saturday by Monday morning they called sick.


Using car crash to explain your experience about Covid death is just pure amateur. You might as well use the death of H1N1.

Your chart fromCDC percentage of this and that and ages..... don’t mean a diddly squat. It’s a cut out and paste. Where’s the link?? You BS on the WHO. How do I know that chart came from CDC?

You can use your .00000001% BS however you want..... look at the number of deaths 200,000+ and counting. Meaning you are down playing the numbers of deaths and infections. How about the numbers of people that recover with long lasting damage to the lungs? Just because they are old they need to die? Thats the reason why that loser moron downplayed the severity of this crisis.

8 of 10 wear mask. only 7+ millions infections out of 313 millions populations. That is a very good odd. You don’t like it but it is what it is.

Your lousy leader get tested almost every day or every other day. Running around without a mask..... He got Covid-19.


Here is the link and latest from CDC dated October 2020 if you really want to see the truth and specific numbers of deaths and specific categories.

COVID-19 Provisional Counts - Weekly Updates by Select Demographic and Geographic Characteristics

Tabulated data on provisional COVID-19 deaths by age, sex, race and Hispanic origin, and comorbidities. Also includes an index of state-level and county-level mortality data available for download.

www.cdc.gov

There is no evidence that masks have slowed the infection.

Yes I know what I am talking about.

Healthcare Workers

COVID-19 guidance, tools, and resources for healthcare workers.

www.cdc.gov

Don't you look stupid?

Yes all 300 wear masks. And the company has everyone screened with a temperature check every morning at the start of the shift. And if you are caught not wearing your mask, the managers will come get you.

I did not say that all 300 got sick. I said everyone I know got sick. I don't know all 300 of the people who work there.

As for could it be because we don't wash our masks.... I have no idea, but that doesn't matter to my point. No one is washing their masks. I don't know single person anywhere that is.

Point being, if mask washing, or mask replacing is required for them to stop Covid-19, and no one is doing that... then Masks are doing nothing, and we need to stop this nonsense.

8 of 10 wear mask. only 7+ millions infections out of 313 millions populations. That is a very good odd. You don’t like it but it is what it is.

So here you are trying to claim that things are great, in a thread where you have been trying to make the case things are terrible, and Trump is to blame. 8 out of 10 wear masks, but things are terrible and it's Trumps fault? Again, I find it amusing you claim I'm the one twisting around, while you can't even go a couple of posts without contradicting your original position.

I don't believe there is only 7 million infections. We already know that the vast majority of people have no symptoms. Further, I know for a fact that most people who did get sick, didn't go to be tested. I didn't. My parents didn't. My friends didn't. My co-workers didn't.

MSN

There are likely 70 million people who have already had Covid-19.

Nor do I believe that the reason for the number of infections has anything to do with masks.

If you believe that masks are what prevented there being 300 million infections, then you truly are ignorant.

Face-off over face-masks: Europe’s latest north-south split

Southerners cover up in public; northerners don’t

www.economist.com

Denmark and Sweden actually discouraged use of masks. Less than 5% of the population said they wore a mask.

Yet both Denmark and Sweden had lower rates of infection than the US over the same time period.

Here is a link from Denmark about mask. You don’t know what you are talking about Dude.

Death here in US is now over 215,000 compared that to any countries in this planet we are the worst however you twist it.

Denmark recommends wearing face masks to curb virus

Denmark announced Thursday that it was now recommending that people wear face masks in certain circumstances due to the novel coronavirus pandemic.

medicalxpress.com

Health authorities had previously deemed the wearing of face masks in public spacesunnecessary but changed their recommendation following advice from the World Health Organization (WHO) in late June.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

The democratic lies that Trump "failed on COVID" are nothing more than vague, unsupported personal attacks.

First - it is the Democrats holding up COVID relief checks, not Trump. There is currently a bill ready for Pelosi to sign to send us checks, but she will not sign it because it would make Trump look good, and she would rather see US suffering.

Second: The U.S. is currently in the #1 position in the world for economic recovery since COVID hit. Our post-pandemic GDP (gross domestic product) is the best in the world. That can only come from excellent economic management by the government in the face of a humanitarian crisis that CHINA is to blame for - not Trump.

Third: I keep hearing that "our COVID deaths are the worst in the world - worse than Europe." Another effing LIE! Our fatality rate is #9 in the world, not the worst. Italy, Germany, Spain and the UK are far worse. Furthermore, we had a system where every death that happened in 2020 was chalked up to COVID, no matter how people died. The truth is the average age of a recorded COVID fatality in the U.S. was a person over 70, with co-morbidities (other problems that also could have killed them). Take away New York alone and our numbers would be far better. Thanks, Cuomo.

Worst of all, the Democrats are purposely keeping the economy closed and citizens denied relief solely because they need to make Trump look as bad as possible to win the election. Is that the mentality you want in our leaders?

He left lockdowns to the idiot governors. And he never educated most of America that we are the fattest country and it’s our fault that we have so many deaths. Fat and unhealthy. I would Have gone down that path. Make America Healthy Again. Other than that I do not have any issues with him.

 

[Dogbiscuit]

Ive read enough of these comments to see that some people are guided by hate.
Hate can cause such damage. It can cause a person to loose the abilty of logical thinking and common sense.
Im not very smart myself, and so I try really really hard not to hate.

 

[miketx]

Bologna.

"The research also found that if interventions in the country could have been conducted one week, two weeks, or three weeks earlier, cases could have been reduced by 66 percent, 86 percent and 95 percent respectively – significantly limiting the geographical spread of the disease. However, if NPIs were conducted one week, two weeks, or three weeks later than they were, the number of cases may have shown a 3-fold, 7-fold, or 18-fold increase, respectively."

“Our study demonstrates how important it is for countries which are facing an imminent outbreak to proactively plan a coordinated response which swiftly tackles the spread of the disease on a number of fronts."

When this report came out we had very few cases, however anyone with at brain understood what it meant for us.

Furthermore we had 50 state responses not a comprehensive national one.

Early And Combined Interventions Crucial In Tackling Covid-19 Spread In China | University of Southampton

A study by the University of Southampton examining non-pharmaceutical interventions (NPIs) in response to the new coronavirus (COVID-19) in China shows that a range of early, coordinated and targeted measures are needed to help significantly reduce its spread.

www.southampton.ac.uk

I request that you find a different country to make that claim on.

I don't believe China. The only time China is not lying, is when they are not saying anything.

This is a country that jailed the doctors who warned them about Covid-19 to begin with. They have complete control over the media, and there is non-government journalism at all.

This is like believing the child mortality rates in Cuba, when we know doctors simply refuse to report deaths because the government will fire them, and they'll end up sifting through garbage cans.

Or Venezuela claiming the unemployment rate is low, because 4 million people fled the country, so they are no longer counted as unemployed.

If you are going to trust the numbers from China, then you might as well assume everything Trump says is divine truth as well.

So what if China is and was lying? Is that supposed to be an excuse for Trump failures handling the Coronavirus?

The difference between us and the Chinese general populations. They heavily wear mask even inside their homes, even before the pandemic and very compliant. Here in US are fighting of stupid mask.

Well yes, actually. The basis of the argument is "see china did it better"... right but if they lied... then no they didn't.

The difference between us and the Chinese general populations. They heavily wear mask even inside their homes, even before the pandemic and very compliant

TRUE TRUE TRUE! Yes. Correct. You got it.

Do you not realize that you blew up your own position?

You stated the truth about China. Now.... can you think logically about the implications?

1. You are blaming Trump for that fact that culturally we are different than China. Do you think that if Obama was president right now, that everyone would magically become compliant slaves to the government?

Do you know why they are complaint slaves to the government in China? Because if they don't comply, they end up disappearing.

Is that what you want Trump to do? Start secret police, and making people disappear? Because that is in fact what you are advocating when you point to the "success of China on Covid".

But there is a second implication of your factually true statement.

2. Yes... *YES*... Chinese in China wear masks all the time. Very compliant as you said.

Do you not see a problem there? Can you not see it?

Chinese wear masks all the time. Very compliant. Follow all the government dictations.

Still don't see the problem? Where did Covid-19 originate?

Let's review shall we? China which has an extremely compliant population, where the government tosses people in jail for not complying, which has been wearing masks constantly.

Please explain how if mask wearing is so effective, how did Covid-19 even start in China, let alone become a pandemic? They were wearing masks for years before now, yet not only did Covid-19 start in China and killed thousands, but it spread world wide. Those masks and being compliant worked so well, didn't it?

And I never said we should follow Chinese government rules. All I said was we should do our own to protect ourselves and STOP and enough already to keep blaming China.

SO WHAT if it came from China? We should just keep playing dumb don’t wear your fucking mask hug people don’t worry about it? Because that is what you are trying to imply.

You can tell when people have lost their argument, when they stop arguing the evidence, and start screaming about what they think other people are implying.

So are you done here?

No I’m not done. I have to do something more important than hanging around here. What evidence have you provided?

I used your evidence. You provided the evidence, that I used against you.

YOU said the Chinese were wearing masks even before the out break. I agreed, and cited that as the logical reasoning that masks do not prevent Covid-19, because they did, then it should have never left China. They should never have had an outbreak to begin with.

Further, you pointed out that the Chinese have a different culture, one of compliance to a dangerous authoritarian regime, that jails doctors. I agreed, and cited that no matter who was in office, Trump or anyone else, that Americans would still be Americans, and that we wouldn't bend over to every single edict given by government.

You are asking for evidence of my position, when YOU gave the evidence of my position.

You are going in circles Andy. You used evidence what I told you. REALLY?

Let me repeat it again. PAY ATTENTION when Coronavirus outbreak in China started Chines in general don’t know what they have and don’t know what to do even with the mask. They used mask because of dirty air over and over....... PAY ATTENTION when it started they used the same attitude using mask over and over. By the time they know it’s dangerous it’s too late. What part of that don’t you understand.

That makes no sense. You are suggesting that masks only work, if they were not originally used because of dirty air? Now masks only work if your attitude is right?

They only work if you replace them over and over?

That's funny, because I don't know anyone anywhere, that is not using the same mask over and over. No one. The most hard core "must wear masks or the planet dies" people are all using the same mask over and over.

I'd be hard pressed to find a single person anywhere who is NOT using the same mask over and over.

If you really believe what you are saying, then I think you are nuts.

You are spinning and twisting around like a wet pretzel.
I told you over and over the mask behavior and attitude they have before the pandemic using dirty mask over and over for several days...... They also ban selling exotic animals for consumptions....... You don’t know anything about China.

Mask only now works because they are not using the same dirty mask over and over. Of course...... What part of that don’t you understand? They even wear mask inside their home. And I KNOW how you are going to come back with your rebuttal

You don’t know anyone NOT using the same mask over and over. I don’t. I replaced it twice a day depending how many times I go out. And I know several people and so are friends and families does do that.

You don’t know anyone NOT using same mask over and over. Are they using it over and over for several days?

Eight in 10 Americans wear mask. So you are the minority.

You don’t know any one NOT using the same mask over and over. That means they are using mask except you.

More Americans say they are regularly wearing masks in stores and other businesses

As the pandemic continues, a growing share of Americans say they are regularly wearing a face covering in stores and other businesses.

www.pewresearch.org

Eight in 10 Americans wear mask. So you are the minority.

What are you even talking about?

I've been wearing a mask since March. I'm in the minority of what? Once again, you have no point, and so you make up stuff.

Its actually quite funny. You haven't been able to make a single valid argument yet, but every post you start shrieking about how I'm "spinning and twisting around"... but then *YOU* are the one that has to make false accusations about the other person, to try and have a point?

Nah, if anyone is "spinning and twisting around" it's you.

You know nothing about me, yet claim I'm in the minority of Americans who don't wear masks?

I have followed every single guideline given about this Covid-19 crap. I have worn masks, socially distanced, and haven't gone to Church since March. My church still isn't open even now. (online church of course, but we haven't met at the Church building).

I have not used personal experience in our conversation, because the evidence alone is enough. The fact you have failed to refute a single point I've made, is proof the evidence alone is enough.

But, one of the reasons that I personally am convinced that all the mask wearing and social distancing, and lock downs are completely ineffective, and pointless.... is because I personally followed all of your guidelines, and so did everyone I know, and everyone still got sick.

I got sick. My parents got sick. My friends and neighbors got sick. My co-workers all got sick. Everyone I know got sick, and we all... ALL.... followed the mask wearing, lock downs, and social distancing guidelines.


*** If does that work? If you follow all the Covid-19 rules, and everyone still got sick.... explain?

You can't. I'm you'll blather on that we must not have followed all the rules, but know for a fact we did... and we still got sick.

So.... Yeah. But we don't need my personal experience. We can just look at the facts. None those rules have worked anywhere. None of them. And I realize you think your posts somehow contradicted my points... but that's because you obviously don't realize your posts contradicted nothing. You didn't. You keep saying the same utterly irrelevant statements, acting like you have a point, but you don't. None of them were valid counter arguments.

Sorry, but you are just wrong. None of those were good points. Or even valid. Either masks work or they don't. All masks get dirty. I don't see a single person using new masks every day.

Even the WHO said they don't recommend that healthy people wear masks, or that mask wearing is effective at all.

Rotten Bologna. You’ve been fighting using mask from the beginning NOW suddenly you are wearing mask then your relatives got sick. BULLSHIT Dude. I know you are loosing by using my own words against me.

You are LYING..... You said it over and over mask is NOT good. You are 100% anti mask. Do you expect me to believe that you really wore mask? Then SUDDENLY (now you are loosing) now you’ve used mask. Very funny. All anti mask are the minorities. That includes your lousy president.


Spinning? That is sad. I don’t spin anything, every single point I made, never did, talked to you straight to the point. You were using my own words to spin around. Sadly.

Of course I used own my experience. What do you expect? Suddenly you are now using your experience to make a point. Sadly.

According to you. I mean you. I failed to refute every single point you made. WRONG. I BLASTED you all the way over and over.

You got sick, your parents got sick, your neighbors got sick, your co workers ALL got sick. And they all wear mask. How many people is that? MY GOD..... GOOD LORD did you made god angry? Are you the center of epidemic? An (now you are using your experience) anti-mask talking? Do you expect me to believe that? Nah! I don’t believe you. Zero. Did you watched them at home or they have kids? I doubt it.

I can tell you alone that hispanics here in California they do wear mask when they go out or work but they still got sick and die. High percentage of Covid deaths here are hispanics. You know why? (Explanation) Most have crowded home and apartments with maximum or over capacity, using the same restrooms, too close and dont wear mask inside the house.

Trump’s orbit 12 or more people got sick non of them wear mask. Look at Trump’s rallies thousands don’t wear mask. How many of those do you think that got sick that they denied? How many of those do you think wear mask in their daily routine or at home?

I will ask you the same question again. If mask is not good the way you portrayed it. Then we should see thousands and thousands of doctors and nurses that got sick and die. Correct? So where are they? Explain that.

You are saying mask is not good anyway. So we should follow your belief don’t wear mask because it’s not good? Explain that.

According to you Andy. You don’t see a single person using new mask every day. Why? Because you don’t have experience or just plain not telling the truth. Are you saying that your co workers or you use the same mask every day they when they come to work? Really? Explain.


You said....I mean you Andy. Even WHO said they don’t recommend healthy people wear mask..... Can you prove that? Any link?

That’s the dumbest thing I ever heard. Because I’m healthy I should recklessly do not wear mask.... What if sat next, following, took over a sit of an infected person? What do you think the percentage of catching it with out mask? And why should I risk my health because of stupidity?


*** My explanation......
*** My explanation......
1. 8 out 10 wear mask. In 331+ US populations ...... Only 7 millions+so far got infected. If Americans didn’t wear mask you should see far higher than 7+ millions. Don’t you think?

2. If they followed. If they followed they still got sick. How do you even know that they really followed? Did they followed rules at home? Did they have kids running around? There are lots of factors that a person can get infected.

I asked you 4 questions here in this post. I expect an answer.

You’ve been fighting using mask from the beginning NOW suddenly you are wearing mask then your relatives got sick. BULLSHIT Dude. I know you are loosing by using my own words against me.

View attachment 400395

No, I'm not losing. Only in your own tiny little mind.

Yes have been wearing masks since March. Yes, everyone I know still got sick. No, I'm not lying simply because I must be or your pathetic ideology doesn't work.

You don’t see a single person using new mask every day. Why? Because you don’t have experience or just plain not telling the truth. Are you saying that your co workers or you use the same mask every day they when they come to work? Really? Explain.

Um, yes. That is exactly what I'm saying. All of them. All 300 people at the facility where I work, all use the same mask over and over. The only time someone uses a different mask, is when they leave their mask at home, and they go and get one of the cheap 25¢ cloth masks the company hands out. But I can tell you from direct personal knowledge, that the box of clothe masks has been sitting there for the last 2 months without being replaced.

I'm not sure what you want me to explain. They use the same mask over and over for this entire year. What more do you want me to explain?

My old company (I was laid off in April before I got this job), they all used the same masks every single day.

I will ask you the same question again. If mask is not good the way you portrayed it.Then we should see thousands and thousands of doctors and nurses that got sick and die. Correct? So where are they? Explain that.

That's a dumb statement. Saying masks are not effective, doesn't magically mean they cause people to die. Something that has no benefit, does not automatically mean it has a negative effect. You seem to be implying that somehow saying there is no evidence that masks prevent Covid, must mean that I think wearing a mask will somehow cause people to die. No.

As for asking if masks are not effective, why have we not seen nurses and doctors falling over in mass death....... That's pretty easy to explain. It's the same reason we don't see people falling over in mass deaths anywhere.

View attachment 400399

These are numbers from the CDC. The ratio of people who get sick and die, to the ratio of people who don't have any symptoms at all, is massively in favor of the latter.

In the absolute worst case Scenario, with the highest risk age group, you have barely a 0.09% chance of dying of Covid-19.

For the next age group up, 50 to 69 year olds, you have barely a 0.01% chance.

What that means is that 99% of all people, including those in hospitals who work as nurses and doctors.....

Will not only not die of Covid-19, they may never even know they have it. A doctor and a nurse, has a higher chance of dying in a car crash on the way to the hospital, then dying of Covid-19 they caught in the hospital from Covid-19 patients.

1. 8 out 10 wear mask. In 331+ US populations ...... Only 7 millions+so far got infected. If Americans didn’t wear mask you should see far higher than 7+ millions. Don’t you think?

No, I don't. There is no evidence to support that conclusion. That's just your opinion. That's fine to have that opinion, but there is zero evidence whatsoever. There is no data that masks have been even in the smallest way, effective at stopping Covid.

None. NONE. ZERO. That statement above is not evidence. That's opinion.

My opinion... no. I have read the documents, looked at the data, read the statements by WHO and other groups. None show that mask wearing would have reduced the number of Covid cases.

Oh! Andy

AGAIN. I asked you several questions. You have not answer all except pure nonsense rebuttal.

First of all you don’t have a clue of what you are talking about. NONE. I NEVER said mask will stop all deaths and infections but it will slow the spread of infections.


Regarding WHO..... You do not post. Repeat you do not post something that you cannot back up. I asked you twice about this BS. You came up empty. You lied.

You (Andy) posted previously that ALL of your coworkers wear mask but ALL got sick. You mentioned it here that you have 300 co workers. ALL 300 GOT SICK? 100% total wipe out? Really? I mean REALLY? You are lying.

You (Andy) is saying that ALL 300 wear cloth mask? ALL? You are talking about cloth mask that can be used over and over. But you have to wash it. Is that why ALL 300 of your coworkers including you got sick because they never wash it?

I’m in the medical instruments business I used 4 to 5 boxes (50 in each box) of disposable mask every day for my employees. Some bring their own cloth mask but most use the one I supplied. Two got sick badly but they admitted they went to a bachelorette party on Wednesday (off on Thursday & Friday) and wedding on Saturday by Monday morning they called sick.


Using car crash to explain your experience about Covid death is just pure amateur. You might as well use the death of H1N1.

Your chart fromCDC percentage of this and that and ages..... don’t mean a diddly squat. It’s a cut out and paste. Where’s the link?? You BS on the WHO. How do I know that chart came from CDC?

You can use your .00000001% BS however you want..... look at the number of deaths 200,000+ and counting. Meaning you are down playing the numbers of deaths and infections. How about the numbers of people that recover with long lasting damage to the lungs? Just because they are old they need to die? Thats the reason why that loser moron downplayed the severity of this crisis.

8 of 10 wear mask. only 7+ millions infections out of 313 millions populations. That is a very good odd. You don’t like it but it is what it is.

Your lousy leader get tested almost every day or every other day. Running around without a mask..... He got Covid-19.


Here is the link and latest from CDC dated October 2020 if you really want to see the truth and specific numbers of deaths and specific categories.

COVID-19 Provisional Counts - Weekly Updates by Select Demographic and Geographic Characteristics

Tabulated data on provisional COVID-19 deaths by age, sex, race and Hispanic origin, and comorbidities. Also includes an index of state-level and county-level mortality data available for download.

www.cdc.gov

There is no evidence that masks have slowed the infection.

Yes I know what I am talking about.

Healthcare Workers

COVID-19 guidance, tools, and resources for healthcare workers.

www.cdc.gov

Don't you look stupid?

Yes all 300 wear masks. And the company has everyone screened with a temperature check every morning at the start of the shift. And if you are caught not wearing your mask, the managers will come get you.

I did not say that all 300 got sick. I said everyone I know got sick. I don't know all 300 of the people who work there.

As for could it be because we don't wash our masks.... I have no idea, but that doesn't matter to my point. No one is washing their masks. I don't know single person anywhere that is.

Point being, if mask washing, or mask replacing is required for them to stop Covid-19, and no one is doing that... then Masks are doing nothing, and we need to stop this nonsense.

8 of 10 wear mask. only 7+ millions infections out of 313 millions populations. That is a very good odd. You don’t like it but it is what it is.

So here you are trying to claim that things are great, in a thread where you have been trying to make the case things are terrible, and Trump is to blame. 8 out of 10 wear masks, but things are terrible and it's Trumps fault? Again, I find it amusing you claim I'm the one twisting around, while you can't even go a couple of posts without contradicting your original position.

I don't believe there is only 7 million infections. We already know that the vast majority of people have no symptoms. Further, I know for a fact that most people who did get sick, didn't go to be tested. I didn't. My parents didn't. My friends didn't. My co-workers didn't.

MSN

There are likely 70 million people who have already had Covid-19.

Nor do I believe that the reason for the number of infections has anything to do with masks.

If you believe that masks are what prevented there being 300 million infections, then you truly are ignorant.

Face-off over face-masks: Europe’s latest north-south split

Southerners cover up in public; northerners don’t

www.economist.com

Denmark and Sweden actually discouraged use of masks. Less than 5% of the population said they wore a mask.

Yet both Denmark and Sweden had lower rates of infection than the US over the same time period.

Here is a link from Denmark about mask. You don’t know what you are talking about Dude.

Death here in US is now over 215,000 compared that to any countries in this planet we are the worst however you twist it.

Denmark recommends wearing face masks to curb virus

Denmark announced Thursday that it was now recommending that people wear face masks in certain circumstances due to the novel coronavirus pandemic.

medicalxpress.com

Health authorities had previously deemed the wearing of face masks in public spacesunnecessary but changed their recommendation following advice from the World Health Organization (WHO) in late June.

Here's a more useful link.

 

[Godboy]

If you don't understand by now, maybe it'll finally sink into your thick skull on the night of November 3rd.

See ya then.

If youre banking all your hopes on Nov 3rd, i think you are setting yourself up for a lot of disappointment.

 

[Andylusion]

Bologna.

"The research also found that if interventions in the country could have been conducted one week, two weeks, or three weeks earlier, cases could have been reduced by 66 percent, 86 percent and 95 percent respectively – significantly limiting the geographical spread of the disease. However, if NPIs were conducted one week, two weeks, or three weeks later than they were, the number of cases may have shown a 3-fold, 7-fold, or 18-fold increase, respectively."

“Our study demonstrates how important it is for countries which are facing an imminent outbreak to proactively plan a coordinated response which swiftly tackles the spread of the disease on a number of fronts."

When this report came out we had very few cases, however anyone with at brain understood what it meant for us.

Furthermore we had 50 state responses not a comprehensive national one.

Early And Combined Interventions Crucial In Tackling Covid-19 Spread In China | University of Southampton

A study by the University of Southampton examining non-pharmaceutical interventions (NPIs) in response to the new coronavirus (COVID-19) in China shows that a range of early, coordinated and targeted measures are needed to help significantly reduce its spread.

www.southampton.ac.uk

I request that you find a different country to make that claim on.

I don't believe China. The only time China is not lying, is when they are not saying anything.

This is a country that jailed the doctors who warned them about Covid-19 to begin with. They have complete control over the media, and there is non-government journalism at all.

This is like believing the child mortality rates in Cuba, when we know doctors simply refuse to report deaths because the government will fire them, and they'll end up sifting through garbage cans.

Or Venezuela claiming the unemployment rate is low, because 4 million people fled the country, so they are no longer counted as unemployed.

If you are going to trust the numbers from China, then you might as well assume everything Trump says is divine truth as well.

So what if China is and was lying? Is that supposed to be an excuse for Trump failures handling the Coronavirus?

The difference between us and the Chinese general populations. They heavily wear mask even inside their homes, even before the pandemic and very compliant. Here in US are fighting of stupid mask.

Well yes, actually. The basis of the argument is "see china did it better"... right but if they lied... then no they didn't.

The difference between us and the Chinese general populations. They heavily wear mask even inside their homes, even before the pandemic and very compliant

TRUE TRUE TRUE! Yes. Correct. You got it.

Do you not realize that you blew up your own position?

You stated the truth about China. Now.... can you think logically about the implications?

1. You are blaming Trump for that fact that culturally we are different than China. Do you think that if Obama was president right now, that everyone would magically become compliant slaves to the government?

Do you know why they are complaint slaves to the government in China? Because if they don't comply, they end up disappearing.

Is that what you want Trump to do? Start secret police, and making people disappear? Because that is in fact what you are advocating when you point to the "success of China on Covid".

But there is a second implication of your factually true statement.

2. Yes... *YES*... Chinese in China wear masks all the time. Very compliant as you said.

Do you not see a problem there? Can you not see it?

Chinese wear masks all the time. Very compliant. Follow all the government dictations.

Still don't see the problem? Where did Covid-19 originate?

Let's review shall we? China which has an extremely compliant population, where the government tosses people in jail for not complying, which has been wearing masks constantly.

Please explain how if mask wearing is so effective, how did Covid-19 even start in China, let alone become a pandemic? They were wearing masks for years before now, yet not only did Covid-19 start in China and killed thousands, but it spread world wide. Those masks and being compliant worked so well, didn't it?

And I never said we should follow Chinese government rules. All I said was we should do our own to protect ourselves and STOP and enough already to keep blaming China.

SO WHAT if it came from China? We should just keep playing dumb don’t wear your fucking mask hug people don’t worry about it? Because that is what you are trying to imply.

You can tell when people have lost their argument, when they stop arguing the evidence, and start screaming about what they think other people are implying.

So are you done here?

No I’m not done. I have to do something more important than hanging around here. What evidence have you provided?

I used your evidence. You provided the evidence, that I used against you.

YOU said the Chinese were wearing masks even before the out break. I agreed, and cited that as the logical reasoning that masks do not prevent Covid-19, because they did, then it should have never left China. They should never have had an outbreak to begin with.

Further, you pointed out that the Chinese have a different culture, one of compliance to a dangerous authoritarian regime, that jails doctors. I agreed, and cited that no matter who was in office, Trump or anyone else, that Americans would still be Americans, and that we wouldn't bend over to every single edict given by government.

You are asking for evidence of my position, when YOU gave the evidence of my position.

You are going in circles Andy. You used evidence what I told you. REALLY?

Let me repeat it again. PAY ATTENTION when Coronavirus outbreak in China started Chines in general don’t know what they have and don’t know what to do even with the mask. They used mask because of dirty air over and over....... PAY ATTENTION when it started they used the same attitude using mask over and over. By the time they know it’s dangerous it’s too late. What part of that don’t you understand.

That makes no sense. You are suggesting that masks only work, if they were not originally used because of dirty air? Now masks only work if your attitude is right?

They only work if you replace them over and over?

That's funny, because I don't know anyone anywhere, that is not using the same mask over and over. No one. The most hard core "must wear masks or the planet dies" people are all using the same mask over and over.

I'd be hard pressed to find a single person anywhere who is NOT using the same mask over and over.

If you really believe what you are saying, then I think you are nuts.

You are spinning and twisting around like a wet pretzel.
I told you over and over the mask behavior and attitude they have before the pandemic using dirty mask over and over for several days...... They also ban selling exotic animals for consumptions....... You don’t know anything about China.

Mask only now works because they are not using the same dirty mask over and over. Of course...... What part of that don’t you understand? They even wear mask inside their home. And I KNOW how you are going to come back with your rebuttal

You don’t know anyone NOT using the same mask over and over. I don’t. I replaced it twice a day depending how many times I go out. And I know several people and so are friends and families does do that.

You don’t know anyone NOT using same mask over and over. Are they using it over and over for several days?

Eight in 10 Americans wear mask. So you are the minority.

You don’t know any one NOT using the same mask over and over. That means they are using mask except you.

More Americans say they are regularly wearing masks in stores and other businesses

As the pandemic continues, a growing share of Americans say they are regularly wearing a face covering in stores and other businesses.

www.pewresearch.org

Eight in 10 Americans wear mask. So you are the minority.

What are you even talking about?

I've been wearing a mask since March. I'm in the minority of what? Once again, you have no point, and so you make up stuff.

Its actually quite funny. You haven't been able to make a single valid argument yet, but every post you start shrieking about how I'm "spinning and twisting around"... but then *YOU* are the one that has to make false accusations about the other person, to try and have a point?

Nah, if anyone is "spinning and twisting around" it's you.

You know nothing about me, yet claim I'm in the minority of Americans who don't wear masks?

I have followed every single guideline given about this Covid-19 crap. I have worn masks, socially distanced, and haven't gone to Church since March. My church still isn't open even now. (online church of course, but we haven't met at the Church building).

I have not used personal experience in our conversation, because the evidence alone is enough. The fact you have failed to refute a single point I've made, is proof the evidence alone is enough.

But, one of the reasons that I personally am convinced that all the mask wearing and social distancing, and lock downs are completely ineffective, and pointless.... is because I personally followed all of your guidelines, and so did everyone I know, and everyone still got sick.

I got sick. My parents got sick. My friends and neighbors got sick. My co-workers all got sick. Everyone I know got sick, and we all... ALL.... followed the mask wearing, lock downs, and social distancing guidelines.


*** If does that work? If you follow all the Covid-19 rules, and everyone still got sick.... explain?

You can't. I'm you'll blather on that we must not have followed all the rules, but know for a fact we did... and we still got sick.

So.... Yeah. But we don't need my personal experience. We can just look at the facts. None those rules have worked anywhere. None of them. And I realize you think your posts somehow contradicted my points... but that's because you obviously don't realize your posts contradicted nothing. You didn't. You keep saying the same utterly irrelevant statements, acting like you have a point, but you don't. None of them were valid counter arguments.

Sorry, but you are just wrong. None of those were good points. Or even valid. Either masks work or they don't. All masks get dirty. I don't see a single person using new masks every day.

Even the WHO said they don't recommend that healthy people wear masks, or that mask wearing is effective at all.

Rotten Bologna. You’ve been fighting using mask from the beginning NOW suddenly you are wearing mask then your relatives got sick. BULLSHIT Dude. I know you are loosing by using my own words against me.

You are LYING..... You said it over and over mask is NOT good. You are 100% anti mask. Do you expect me to believe that you really wore mask? Then SUDDENLY (now you are loosing) now you’ve used mask. Very funny. All anti mask are the minorities. That includes your lousy president.


Spinning? That is sad. I don’t spin anything, every single point I made, never did, talked to you straight to the point. You were using my own words to spin around. Sadly.

Of course I used own my experience. What do you expect? Suddenly you are now using your experience to make a point. Sadly.

According to you. I mean you. I failed to refute every single point you made. WRONG. I BLASTED you all the way over and over.

You got sick, your parents got sick, your neighbors got sick, your co workers ALL got sick. And they all wear mask. How many people is that? MY GOD..... GOOD LORD did you made god angry? Are you the center of epidemic? An (now you are using your experience) anti-mask talking? Do you expect me to believe that? Nah! I don’t believe you. Zero. Did you watched them at home or they have kids? I doubt it.

I can tell you alone that hispanics here in California they do wear mask when they go out or work but they still got sick and die. High percentage of Covid deaths here are hispanics. You know why? (Explanation) Most have crowded home and apartments with maximum or over capacity, using the same restrooms, too close and dont wear mask inside the house.

Trump’s orbit 12 or more people got sick non of them wear mask. Look at Trump’s rallies thousands don’t wear mask. How many of those do you think that got sick that they denied? How many of those do you think wear mask in their daily routine or at home?

I will ask you the same question again. If mask is not good the way you portrayed it. Then we should see thousands and thousands of doctors and nurses that got sick and die. Correct? So where are they? Explain that.

You are saying mask is not good anyway. So we should follow your belief don’t wear mask because it’s not good? Explain that.

According to you Andy. You don’t see a single person using new mask every day. Why? Because you don’t have experience or just plain not telling the truth. Are you saying that your co workers or you use the same mask every day they when they come to work? Really? Explain.


You said....I mean you Andy. Even WHO said they don’t recommend healthy people wear mask..... Can you prove that? Any link?

That’s the dumbest thing I ever heard. Because I’m healthy I should recklessly do not wear mask.... What if sat next, following, took over a sit of an infected person? What do you think the percentage of catching it with out mask? And why should I risk my health because of stupidity?


*** My explanation......
*** My explanation......
1. 8 out 10 wear mask. In 331+ US populations ...... Only 7 millions+so far got infected. If Americans didn’t wear mask you should see far higher than 7+ millions. Don’t you think?

2. If they followed. If they followed they still got sick. How do you even know that they really followed? Did they followed rules at home? Did they have kids running around? There are lots of factors that a person can get infected.

I asked you 4 questions here in this post. I expect an answer.

You’ve been fighting using mask from the beginning NOW suddenly you are wearing mask then your relatives got sick. BULLSHIT Dude. I know you are loosing by using my own words against me.

View attachment 400395

No, I'm not losing. Only in your own tiny little mind.

Yes have been wearing masks since March. Yes, everyone I know still got sick. No, I'm not lying simply because I must be or your pathetic ideology doesn't work.

You don’t see a single person using new mask every day. Why? Because you don’t have experience or just plain not telling the truth. Are you saying that your co workers or you use the same mask every day they when they come to work? Really? Explain.

Um, yes. That is exactly what I'm saying. All of them. All 300 people at the facility where I work, all use the same mask over and over. The only time someone uses a different mask, is when they leave their mask at home, and they go and get one of the cheap 25¢ cloth masks the company hands out. But I can tell you from direct personal knowledge, that the box of clothe masks has been sitting there for the last 2 months without being replaced.

I'm not sure what you want me to explain. They use the same mask over and over for this entire year. What more do you want me to explain?

My old company (I was laid off in April before I got this job), they all used the same masks every single day.

I will ask you the same question again. If mask is not good the way you portrayed it.Then we should see thousands and thousands of doctors and nurses that got sick and die. Correct? So where are they? Explain that.

That's a dumb statement. Saying masks are not effective, doesn't magically mean they cause people to die. Something that has no benefit, does not automatically mean it has a negative effect. You seem to be implying that somehow saying there is no evidence that masks prevent Covid, must mean that I think wearing a mask will somehow cause people to die. No.

As for asking if masks are not effective, why have we not seen nurses and doctors falling over in mass death....... That's pretty easy to explain. It's the same reason we don't see people falling over in mass deaths anywhere.

View attachment 400399

These are numbers from the CDC. The ratio of people who get sick and die, to the ratio of people who don't have any symptoms at all, is massively in favor of the latter.

In the absolute worst case Scenario, with the highest risk age group, you have barely a 0.09% chance of dying of Covid-19.

For the next age group up, 50 to 69 year olds, you have barely a 0.01% chance.

What that means is that 99% of all people, including those in hospitals who work as nurses and doctors.....

Will not only not die of Covid-19, they may never even know they have it. A doctor and a nurse, has a higher chance of dying in a car crash on the way to the hospital, then dying of Covid-19 they caught in the hospital from Covid-19 patients.

1. 8 out 10 wear mask. In 331+ US populations ...... Only 7 millions+so far got infected. If Americans didn’t wear mask you should see far higher than 7+ millions. Don’t you think?

No, I don't. There is no evidence to support that conclusion. That's just your opinion. That's fine to have that opinion, but there is zero evidence whatsoever. There is no data that masks have been even in the smallest way, effective at stopping Covid.

None. NONE. ZERO. That statement above is not evidence. That's opinion.

My opinion... no. I have read the documents, looked at the data, read the statements by WHO and other groups. None show that mask wearing would have reduced the number of Covid cases.

Oh! Andy

AGAIN. I asked you several questions. You have not answer all except pure nonsense rebuttal.

First of all you don’t have a clue of what you are talking about. NONE. I NEVER said mask will stop all deaths and infections but it will slow the spread of infections.


Regarding WHO..... You do not post. Repeat you do not post something that you cannot back up. I asked you twice about this BS. You came up empty. You lied.

You (Andy) posted previously that ALL of your coworkers wear mask but ALL got sick. You mentioned it here that you have 300 co workers. ALL 300 GOT SICK? 100% total wipe out? Really? I mean REALLY? You are lying.

You (Andy) is saying that ALL 300 wear cloth mask? ALL? You are talking about cloth mask that can be used over and over. But you have to wash it. Is that why ALL 300 of your coworkers including you got sick because they never wash it?

I’m in the medical instruments business I used 4 to 5 boxes (50 in each box) of disposable mask every day for my employees. Some bring their own cloth mask but most use the one I supplied. Two got sick badly but they admitted they went to a bachelorette party on Wednesday (off on Thursday & Friday) and wedding on Saturday by Monday morning they called sick.


Using car crash to explain your experience about Covid death is just pure amateur. You might as well use the death of H1N1.

Your chart fromCDC percentage of this and that and ages..... don’t mean a diddly squat. It’s a cut out and paste. Where’s the link?? You BS on the WHO. How do I know that chart came from CDC?

You can use your .00000001% BS however you want..... look at the number of deaths 200,000+ and counting. Meaning you are down playing the numbers of deaths and infections. How about the numbers of people that recover with long lasting damage to the lungs? Just because they are old they need to die? Thats the reason why that loser moron downplayed the severity of this crisis.

8 of 10 wear mask. only 7+ millions infections out of 313 millions populations. That is a very good odd. You don’t like it but it is what it is.

Your lousy leader get tested almost every day or every other day. Running around without a mask..... He got Covid-19.


Here is the link and latest from CDC dated October 2020 if you really want to see the truth and specific numbers of deaths and specific categories.

COVID-19 Provisional Counts - Weekly Updates by Select Demographic and Geographic Characteristics

Tabulated data on provisional COVID-19 deaths by age, sex, race and Hispanic origin, and comorbidities. Also includes an index of state-level and county-level mortality data available for download.

www.cdc.gov

There is no evidence that masks have slowed the infection.

Yes I know what I am talking about.

Healthcare Workers

COVID-19 guidance, tools, and resources for healthcare workers.

www.cdc.gov

Don't you look stupid?

Yes all 300 wear masks. And the company has everyone screened with a temperature check every morning at the start of the shift. And if you are caught not wearing your mask, the managers will come get you.

I did not say that all 300 got sick. I said everyone I know got sick. I don't know all 300 of the people who work there.

As for could it be because we don't wash our masks.... I have no idea, but that doesn't matter to my point. No one is washing their masks. I don't know single person anywhere that is.

Point being, if mask washing, or mask replacing is required for them to stop Covid-19, and no one is doing that... then Masks are doing nothing, and we need to stop this nonsense.

8 of 10 wear mask. only 7+ millions infections out of 313 millions populations. That is a very good odd. You don’t like it but it is what it is.

So here you are trying to claim that things are great, in a thread where you have been trying to make the case things are terrible, and Trump is to blame. 8 out of 10 wear masks, but things are terrible and it's Trumps fault? Again, I find it amusing you claim I'm the one twisting around, while you can't even go a couple of posts without contradicting your original position.

I don't believe there is only 7 million infections. We already know that the vast majority of people have no symptoms. Further, I know for a fact that most people who did get sick, didn't go to be tested. I didn't. My parents didn't. My friends didn't. My co-workers didn't.

MSN

There are likely 70 million people who have already had Covid-19.

Nor do I believe that the reason for the number of infections has anything to do with masks.

If you believe that masks are what prevented there being 300 million infections, then you truly are ignorant.

Face-off over face-masks: Europe’s latest north-south split

Southerners cover up in public; northerners don’t

www.economist.com

Denmark and Sweden actually discouraged use of masks. Less than 5% of the population said they wore a mask.

Yet both Denmark and Sweden had lower rates of infection than the US over the same time period.

Here is a link from Denmark about mask. You don’t know what you are talking about Dude.

Death here in US is now over 215,000 compared that to any countries in this planet we are the worst however you twist it.

Denmark recommends wearing face masks to curb virus

Denmark announced Thursday that it was now recommending that people wear face masks in certain circumstances due to the novel coronavirus pandemic.

medicalxpress.com

Health authorities had previously deemed the wearing of face masks in public spacesunnecessary but changed their recommendation following advice from the World Health Organization (WHO) in late June.

I'm amused that posted proof of my position, and claimed it contradicted me.

According to the link you just posted, it wasn't until early July that the government of Denmark reversed their stance and encouraged mask wearing.

That statement by your link, validates the statements in my link, that barely 5% of Denmark people wore masks by July 8th.

So, as you can see, the United States started wearing masks in mass, by March, and was up near 70% of the public by April.

Meanwhile, Sweden, Denmark, Norway, even Britain, has a fraction as many people wearing masks from March, April, May, June, and into the start of July.

Yet, the US had a higher incident rate of Covid-19 (according to the official numbers), than any of those countries where a fraction as many people wore masks. In the case of Sweden and Denmark, a tiny tiny fraction.

As I have said numerous times, there is ZERO evidence that masks work. Zero.

By the way, just to add to the endless evidence that masks are utterly ineffective, the CDC showed this in their Sept 11th report.

Community and Close Contact Exposures Associated with COVID-19 ...

Community and close contact exposures continue to drive the coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) pandemic. CDC and other public health authorities recommend community mitigation strategies ...

www.cdc.gov

So what you are looking at, is a survey of people who contracted Covid-19.

Of people who contracted Covid-19, 70% said they "ALWAYS" wore a mask.
An additional 14% said they "OFTEN" wore a mask.

That means 85% of people who contracted covid, were wearing masks.

Once again.... ZERO evidence that masks work. Zero. None.

 

[Andylusion]

The democratic lies that Trump "failed on COVID" are nothing more than vague, unsupported personal attacks.

First - it is the Democrats holding up COVID relief checks, not Trump. There is currently a bill ready for Pelosi to sign to send us checks, but she will not sign it because it would make Trump look good, and she would rather see US suffering.

Second: The U.S. is currently in the #1 position in the world for economic recovery since COVID hit. Our post-pandemic GDP (gross domestic product) is the best in the world. That can only come from excellent economic management by the government in the face of a humanitarian crisis that CHINA is to blame for - not Trump.

Third: I keep hearing that "our COVID deaths are the worst in the world - worse than Europe." Another effing LIE! Our fatality rate is #9 in the world, not the worst. Italy, Germany, Spain and the UK are far worse. Furthermore, we had a system where every death that happened in 2020 was chalked up to COVID, no matter how people died. The truth is the average age of a recorded COVID fatality in the U.S. was a person over 70, with co-morbidities (other problems that also could have killed them). Take away New York alone and our numbers would be far better. Thanks, Cuomo.

Worst of all, the Democrats are purposely keeping the economy closed and citizens denied relief solely because they need to make Trump look as bad as possible to win the election. Is that the mentality you want in our leaders?

He left lockdowns to the idiot governors. And he never educated most of America that we are the fattest country and it’s our fault that we have so many deaths. Fat and unhealthy. I would Have gone down that path. Make America Healthy Again. Other than that I do not have any issues with him.

If having the people in high office complain about health worked... then why didn't Michael Obama's fight against obesity work?

That was a big thing. Schools were dumping pizza for broccoli. I remember that. Why didn't that work? (ironically I love broccoli.... with seasoned salt and butter.... but...)

I don't think Trump sitting around going "ya'll fat" is going to cause anyone anywhere, to change their diet or start exercising. It certainly wouldn't motivate me.

Regardless, more than half of all deaths, were in nursing homes. I highly doubt if Trump had won the office, and started cheesy motivational speeches, that elderly over the age of 70, would start pumping iron, or walking a treadmill.

 

[basquebromance]

Covid was a hiccup, a goof, a bump in the road on Trump's path to make america great again!

USA! USA! USA! USA!