Starbucks implements gun-free zones in stores - and gets robbed at gunpoint

[OODA_Loop]

How does a man or woman replicate the REAL situation that will occur IF she/he decided to pull their gun and stop a robbery in process?

The gun is suppressive for the purposes of exfiltration.

 

[BullKurtz]

How does a man or woman replicate the REAL situation that will occur IF she/he decided to pull their gun and stop a robbery in process?

The gun is suppressive for the purposes of exfiltration.

 

[zeke]

How does a man or woman replicate the REAL situation that will occur IF she/he decided to pull their gun and stop a robbery in process?

The gun is suppressive for the purposes of exfiltration.

In other words, practice spray and pray. Then run like hell. Yea nobody innocent is likely to get hit in that situation eh?

 

[OODA_Loop]

How does a man or woman replicate the REAL situation that will occur IF she/he decided to pull their gun and stop a robbery in process?

The gun is suppressive for the purposes of exfiltration.

In other words, practice spray and pray. Then run like hell. Yea nobody innocent is likely to get hit in that situation eh?

No. Controlled pairs. COM.

If you're not shooting, you're "____________".

It is not a gunfight.

 

[zeke]

ODAA I noticed you are a real "gunner". SO how do you get the adrenaline flowing and the pulse rate through the roof so you can "practice" shooting someone in realistic circumstances?

Or are you such a cool calm killer that you got the proverbial ice water in your veins?

 

[OODA_Loop]

ODAA I noticed you are a real "gunner". SO how do you get the adrenaline flowing and the pulse rate through the roof so you can "practice" shooting someone in realistic circumstances?

Defensive competition will only get you so far. Repetition is how LE and MIL do it.

All comes down to muscle memory when fine motor skills are impacted.

You don't think there are men and women fully capable of escaping such a situation unharmed ?

 

[zeke]

ODAA I noticed you are a real "gunner". SO how do you get the adrenaline flowing and the pulse rate through the roof so you can "practice" shooting someone in realistic circumstances?

Defensive competition will only get you so far. Repetition is how LE and MIL do it.

All comes down to muscle memory when fine motor skills are impacted.

You don't think there are men and women fully capable of escaping such a situation unharmed ?

You got a good dodge going on there ODALoop.

Hey did you know that most soldiers never hit anyone when they are engaged in a fire fight? That cops who practice all the time can't his shit when the adrenaline is pumping and the fear is real.

But not you eh. Ice water in YOUR veins. LMAO.

Muscle memory only goes so far when you are scared to death and 55 years old. Adrenaline and a soaring pulse rate are a lot harder to control. Well that and the fear of dying. That does tend to make you shake a little.

But not you. You're so lucky. May you get in a gun fight soon, just to show how it's done.
Post the newspaper article after you're done shooting those bad guys.

 

[OODA_Loop]

ODAA I noticed you are a real "gunner". SO how do you get the adrenaline flowing and the pulse rate through the roof so you can "practice" shooting someone in realistic circumstances?

Defensive competition will only get you so far. Repetition is how LE and MIL do it.

All comes down to muscle memory when fine motor skills are impacted.

You don't think there are men and women fully capable of escaping such a situation unharmed ?

You got a good dodge going on there ODALoop.

Hey did you know that most soldiers never hit anyone when they are engaged in a fire fight? That cops who practice all the time can't his shit when the adrenaline is pumping and the fear is real.

But not you eh. Ice water in YOUR veins. LMAO.

Muscle memory only goes so far when you are scared to death and 55 years old. Adrenaline and a soaring pulse rate are a lot harder to control. Well that and the fear of dying. That does tend to make you shake a little.

But not you. You're so lucky. May you get in a gun fight soon, just to show how it's done.
Post the newspaper article after you're done shooting those bad guys.

Cops and Mil head into harms way and get into gunfights. They must stop the threat.

All I have to do is survive.

Much different when you train to that immediacy of action.

 

[BullKurtz]

Hey did you know that most soldiers never hit anyone when they are engaged in a fire fight?

Excuse me? Where did you hear that, on The View? No combat-ready team is deployed without tactical shooting drills. Yeah, it's paper but it's realistic.....same with tossing a hand grenade, there's a procedure, it's rote, it's ingrained. Further, you're implying there are emotional consequences during a firefight....there are none, maybe later but you're too busy counting your shots and maneuvering to be concerned about the poor bastard you just shot.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Strange view. Have you got any evidence that shall issue states are having more problems than may issue states with bystanders getting shot? Even police officers can make a mistake but unless you can disarm the criminal, I'll take my chances in a shall issue state.

And I believe most of the noise about Starbucks and guns are due to the open carry nuts trying to make a statement of sorts, no matter how counter-productive.

He's correct. A poorly trained, or untrained person, can be very dangerous. Just like a poorly trained, or untrained, driver can be very dangerous.

If you don't know what you are doing, if you aren't well trained and capable, pulling out a gun in a tense situation can easily get yourself and/or other innocent people killed. That is why responsible gun owners gain proficiency before they use their weapons for the purpose they intend.

So, when a 53 yo woman with her brand new concealed carry permit and weapon in hand or bag or where ever, how does she raise her pulse rate up to 200 bpm and flood her system with adrenaline and start shaking, then practice with her gun to shoot what she aims at?

How does a man or woman replicate the REAL situation that will occur IF she/he decided to pull their gun and stop a robbery in process?

Tactical training. Been there and done that.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Hey did you know that most soldiers never hit anyone when they are engaged in a fire fight?

Excuse me? Where did you hear that, on The View? No combat-ready team is deployed without tactical shooting drills. Yeah, it's paper but it's realistic.....same with tossing a hand grenade, there's a procedure, it's rote, it's ingrained. Further, you're implying there are emotional consequences during a firefight....there are none, maybe later but you're too busy counting your shots and maneuvering to be concerned about the poor bastard you just shot.

And isn't a fair amount of shooting in a firefight simply AREA fire for suppression?

 

[SwimExpert]

So, when a 53 yo woman with her brand new concealed carry permit and weapon in hand or bag or where ever, how does she raise her pulse rate up to 200 bpm and flood her system with adrenaline and start shaking, then practice with her gun to shoot what she aims at?

How does a man or woman replicate the REAL situation that will occur IF she/he decided to pull their gun and stop a robbery in process?

While it is true that no person can every know exactly how they will react in an emergency situation, that does not mean people should not train and gain proficiency to engage in an emergency situation.

The first time I had to engage in an emergency situation I was 15 years old, on my first ever job, working as a lifeguard over the summer. I saw a little 4 year old kid slip on the edge of the pool and fall into the water. He couldn't swim and the water was eye level deep on him. It was one of the scariest moments of my life. None of the training I'd gone through ever simulated the physiological reactions to stress that you talk about. But that didn't stop me from taking the job. It didn't stop my boss from putting me on the water that day. And it didn't stop me from saving that kids life that day.

The next time I ever responded to an emergency situation was later that fall. On my way to school I witnessed a horrible bus accident. A tractor trailer failed to stop at a red light because of heavy fog, and T-boned a school bus at 55 mph. I saw the whole thing. Of course, this was nothing like pulling a few kids out of deep water over the previous summer. I'd gotten used to that. But this had me scared out of my mind. I went to help the kids get off the bus. Made my way on, found the driver was dead. Other than my grandparents passing, and one of my uncles, I'd never seen a dead body before in my life. I'd never witnessed an event kill a person before. I still remember to this day how my hands were shaking badly when I checked him for a pulse. I also remember that despite my panic, I still had the frame of mind to stop two adults from moving a little girl who as unconscious in the middle of the bus aisle. I found out later that she did end up having some kind of hairline fracture in her neck. She made a full recovery in the long run, but if they had just picked her up and moved her they could have aggravated her injury and causes severe problems.

At this point in my life, I've responded to a wide variety of emergency situations of varying severity. I've gotten much better at doing so. Training, training, training. The more you train, the more you can successfully respond. Because the training kicks in. Even if you experience initial shock, you just gotta pull yourself together for a moment, and then the training kicks in. But I'll tell you, nothing I've experienced comes close to the kind of situations that people find themselves in when they get deployed down range in the military and end up under attack for the first time. I can't imagine what that would be like.

But I do know this.....the military successfully trains tens of thousands of reckless teenagers every year for exactly that purpose. If they can be trained to deal with their first fire fight in the middle of Afghanistan or Iraq, then a responsible 53 year old woman can train well enough to deal with getting robbed at gun point.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Unless his climb through the ranks was at an accelerated pace, after three years, it's unlikely he made it past E-4 ( petty officer 3rd class) or O-2..Lt Jr Grade

Hardly a "sir"...

Sirs are officers. You can join commissioned.

Does Wry Catcher impress you as somebody who went through ROTC and joined as a commissioned officer?

Oh YES!

 

[OODA_Loop]

Situational awareness and training to a plan.

Shoot......move.

The situation dictates which is first.

 

[thereisnospoon]

I'm sure by now everyone has discovered there is no "gun free zone" in Starbucks

actually quite a few of my friends and me included stop going to Starbucks after it was declared a gun free zone.
not because I want to punish the owners, they have the right to have their own rules, but because Starbucks just declared that it is not safe anymore.
I don't want to risk and go to the stupid gun-free zone which is a sole unifying factor for any mass shooting spree in the US.

I stopped going to Starbucks after my first visit, which ended with me paying way too much for a cup of absolutely horrible coffee.

This guy tells it how he sees it....
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6DyG60KT-MY]The Kid From Brooklyn - Starbucks Stick it up Your @$$ - YouTube[/ame]

 

[OODA_Loop]

then a responsible 53 year old woman can train well enough to deal with getting robbed at gun point.

A situationally aware and motivated 53 woman can turn aggressiveness and ventilate you if she is trained to the proper plan.

 

[BullKurtz]

Hey did you know that most soldiers never hit anyone when they are engaged in a fire fight?

Excuse me? Where did you hear that, on The View? No combat-ready team is deployed without tactical shooting drills. Yeah, it's paper but it's realistic.....same with tossing a hand grenade, there's a procedure, it's rote, it's ingrained. Further, you're implying there are emotional consequences during a firefight....there are none, maybe later but you're too busy counting your shots and maneuvering to be concerned about the poor bastard you just shot.

And isn't a fair amount of shooting in a firefight simply AREA fire for suppression?

Depends on the terrain, the enemy, if you have arty and air. In Vietnam, infantry often lit up a treeline to suppress fire sure, but in my era ('67-68) we didn't spray and pray like they did later. My background is recon and I watched the enemy tactics unfold while we lay dog. We learned from them...it was their world, their country, their woods, and they rarely pulled a trigger without a target in sight. Our 5-6 man teams learned we could take on a platoon of them by deploying their tactics against them. If we wanted fire-suppression we just called for nape and snake and kept low...AF pilots were cowboys...Naval Aviators were tits...they'd fly in any weather, at any altitude...those F-4's were the shit.

 

[Warrior102]

Gun free zones DO NOT MEAN SQUAT to this particular concealed weapon permit carrier. I carry 24/7 - unless I am flying. Even then, I believe law-abiding CWP holders like me should be permitted to carry. Should some towel-head fucking Libberhoid jihadist "announce" he's hijacking the plane mid-flight, I should have every right, and the ability/arms necessary, to blow his stupid fucking brains out.

Thanks.

 

[zeke]

Gun free zones DO NOT MEAN SQUAT to this particular concealed weapon permit carrier. I carry 24/7 - unless I am flying. Even then, I believe law-abiding CWP holders like me should be permitted to carry. Should some towel-head fucking Libberhoid jihadist "announce" he's hijacking the plane mid-flight, I should have every right, and the ability/arms necessary, to blow his stupid fucking brains out.

Thanks.

You mean you can't kill the fucking terrorist hijacking your plane with your bare hands?

What a fucking puss.

 

[ShawnChris13]

Gun free zones DO NOT MEAN SQUAT to this particular concealed weapon permit carrier. I carry 24/7 - unless I am flying. Even then, I believe law-abiding CWP holders like me should be permitted to carry. Should some towel-head fucking Libberhoid jihadist "announce" he's hijacking the plane mid-flight, I should have every right, and the ability/arms necessary, to blow his stupid fucking brains out.



Thanks.

You mean you can't kill the fucking terrorist hijacking your plane with your bare hands?



What a fucking puss.

You mean you can't spit in his eye and murder him by whispering his name? What a puss.