Striking fear in the hearts...

[gallantwarrior]

What is it about prayer, specifically christian prayer, that so terrifies athiests and others without some other religious avocation? Why is it that even the whispered hint of christian murmurings sends these loonbats streaking off to litigation? What are they afraid of? Words? And yet, they continue to demand that their "faith" be honored and respected.

Atheist group, angry mom go ballistic over prayer at pretend preschool commencement

Here's the thing: this is a public school, and public schools (as a representative of the state & ultimately our gov't) should be as neutral as possible when it comes to religion. If we have state-sponsored school promoting Christianity at a commencement ceremony, where exactly do the Muslim children fit it? Or how about Jewish kids?

As a parent, would you like your public school district picking and choosing the religions it pushes on your child? What about if down the road Islam started picking up popularity, and teachers were regularly encouraging the children to pray to mecca at various intervals of the day?

As a non-religious person, I know I wouldn't like this one bit.

We have a place for the promotion of a specific religion in school, and that is in the private sector.




.

Allowing someone to pray does not equal promoting their religion.
It is, merely, allowing "the free exercise thereof".

As long as they "freely exercise" out of sight and earshot of those who deem such and exercise offensive.

 

[koshergrl]

Preschool isn't "public school". It is private. Children are not mandated to attend.

 

[KevinWestern]

What is it about prayer, specifically christian prayer, that so terrifies athiests and others without some other religious avocation? Why is it that even the whispered hint of christian murmurings sends these loonbats streaking off to litigation? What are they afraid of? Words? And yet, they continue to demand that their "faith" be honored and respected.

Atheist group, angry mom go ballistic over prayer at pretend preschool commencement

Here's the thing: this is a public school, and public schools (as a representative of the state & ultimately our gov't) should be as neutral as possible when it comes to religion. If we have state-sponsored school promoting Christianity at a commencement ceremony, where exactly do the Muslim children fit it? Or how about Jewish kids?

As a parent, would you like your public school district picking and choosing the religions it pushes on your child? What about if down the road Islam started picking up popularity, and teachers were regularly encouraging the children to pray to mecca at various intervals of the day?

As a non-religious person, I know I wouldn't like this one bit.

We have a place for the promotion of a specific religion in school, and that is in the private sector.




.

Allowing someone to pray does not equal promoting their religion.
It is, merely, allowing "the free exercise thereof".

The problem is praying in a public, official fashion at a public school event, by a state sponsored educator.

I would not like the principal of my kid's school praying to Allah and praising the holy Koran at a graduation ceremony, would you? I would complain my head off!

Thoughts?


.

 

[Osomir]

Yep! And it works so very, very well...for any side of any conflict.

Well at least you're willing to admit that your assertions have no legs to stand on.

 

[KevinWestern]

Here's the thing: this is a public school, and public schools (as a representative of the state & ultimately our gov't) should be as neutral as possible when it comes to religion. If we have state-sponsored school promoting Christianity at a commencement ceremony, where exactly do the Muslim children fit it? Or how about Jewish kids?

As a parent, would you like your public school district picking and choosing the religions it pushes on your child? What about if down the road Islam started picking up popularity, and teachers were regularly encouraging the children to pray to mecca at various intervals of the day?

As a non-religious person, I know I wouldn't like this one bit.

We have a place for the promotion of a specific religion in school, and that is in the private sector.




.

Allowing someone to pray does not equal promoting their religion.
It is, merely, allowing "the free exercise thereof".

As long as they "freely exercise" out of sight and earshot of those who deem such and exercise offensive.

Listen, if an educator is praying on the side I have no problem.

But to incorporate the prayer into the official public ceremony, that is where the line is crossed.

 

[hoosier88]

gallant - What is a "religious avocation"? - line 2 of the OP? Looking up "avocation", I see "hobby" - that doesn't seem to be what you mean.

Kevin - "a place for the promotion of a specific religion in school, and that is in the private sector." What do you mean by "private sector"? - I would have thought you meant a church of some kind, or some other place of worship; which isn't the same as the private sector.

 

[koshergrl]

Here's the thing: this is a public school, and public schools (as a representative of the state & ultimately our gov't) should be as neutral as possible when it comes to religion. If we have state-sponsored school promoting Christianity at a commencement ceremony, where exactly do the Muslim children fit it? Or how about Jewish kids?

As a parent, would you like your public school district picking and choosing the religions it pushes on your child? What about if down the road Islam started picking up popularity, and teachers were regularly encouraging the children to pray to mecca at various intervals of the day?

As a non-religious person, I know I wouldn't like this one bit.

We have a place for the promotion of a specific religion in school, and that is in the private sector.




.

Allowing someone to pray does not equal promoting their religion.
It is, merely, allowing "the free exercise thereof".

As long as they "freely exercise" out of sight and earshot of those who deem such and exercise offensive.

Nope. We get to pray in open and everything. Our kids can pray in crowded lunchrooms, and if they want to pray at a commencement, they can.

We do not have to hide ourselves because you don't like it.

 

[KevinWestern]

Preschool isn't "public school". It is private. Children are not mandated to attend.

If the school is totally private, then they have full right to pray or do whatever they want.

 

[koshergrl]

They have the right to pray anyway.

 

[Avatar4321]

I wonder how these christians would feel if a couple of Satanists prayed to the Dark lord to take their souls for a concubine?

I don't think they would appreciate it......

If a fool wants to pray to someone who can't answer them or bless their soul, they have a right to do so. Why would it bother anyone?

 

[KevinWestern]

gallant - What is a "religious avocation"? - line 2 of the OP? Looking up "avocation", I see "hobby" - that doesn't seem to be what you mean.

Kevin - "a place for the promotion of a specific religion in school, and that is in the private sector." What do you mean by "private sector"? - I would have thought you meant a church of some kind, or some other place of worship; which isn't the same as the private sector.

Well, I was referring to a private school (specifically). If the school is not funded by tax dollars, they should have the right to incorporate prayer of whatever religion(s) they choose into their lesson plans or ceremonies.



.

 

[KevinWestern]

They have the right to pray anyway.

Everyone has the right to pray in private (which can mean in a crowded lunchroom).

However public teachers shouldn't be incorporating a specific religion into publicly funded school events. That arena should remain religion-neutral.

There's a difference.

Would you want a teacher in your kid's public school district praying to Allah/ citing Koran before his/her lesson plan? Obviously, that'd be inappropriate.




.

 

[Osomir]

Two things in terms of the OP.

1.) as a private school they are allowed to have prayer if they so choose.

2.) as a customer of the service the mother is fully entitled to complain to the school board if she is unsatisfied with the product that she is getting and or entitled to take her business elsewhere.

I don't really see the big deal here.

 

[hortysir]

Here's the thing: this is a public school, and public schools (as a representative of the state & ultimately our gov't) should be as neutral as possible when it comes to religion. If we have state-sponsored school promoting Christianity at a commencement ceremony, where exactly do the Muslim children fit it? Or how about Jewish kids?

As a parent, would you like your public school district picking and choosing the religions it pushes on your child? What about if down the road Islam started picking up popularity, and teachers were regularly encouraging the children to pray to mecca at various intervals of the day?

As a non-religious person, I know I wouldn't like this one bit.

We have a place for the promotion of a specific religion in school, and that is in the private sector.




.

Allowing someone to pray does not equal promoting their religion.
It is, merely, allowing "the free exercise thereof".

The problem is praying in a public, official fashion at a public school event, by a state sponsored educator.

I would not like the principal of my kid's school praying to Allah and praising the holy Koran at a graduation ceremony, would you? I would complain my head off!

Thoughts?


.

I'm open enough to the 'free exercise thereof' that it would not bother me to hear a Muslim prayer or a Buddhist hum or a Jewish recitation.
I respect all religions. Hearing them pray won't scar my psyche or force my conversion to their religion.

There's another part to that whole "free exercise thereof", though, that some tend to forget.

And that is, "Congress shall make NO LAW" regarding that exercising.

When do we start paying attention to that little tidbit?

 

[hoosier88]

Preschool isn't "public school". It is private. Children are not mandated to attend.

"public school" is defined by how it's paid for, not by whether children are mandated to attend. If property taxes are levied to support the school - preschool - K-12, then it's a public school. That being the case, all property owners are required to pay for the schools.

That being the case, equal protection before the law & the usual secular approach of government to execution of the laws require that prayer - if any - be nonsectarian @ the least. Preferably, there would be no prayer - because writing a prayer by committee has about the results you would expect - a v. bland invocation of the spirit in the sky, etc.

Most state attempts to write suitable secular prayers have foundered on this point, which is why no states - TMK - try to do this anymore. All the more reason that TX public schools should not attempt to circumvent settled federal law.

In any event, just the fact that the preschool meets in public school buildings, the staff is presumably hired by, trained, licensed & so on by the competent TX Dept. of Education or delegatees, & the "graduation" took place in a school venue, entangles the ISD with the prayer question so much that it would be difficult - if not impossible - to disentangle the ISD from the prayer @ the "graduation".

If prayer is required, better to have a separate overtly religious ceremony @ a church or temple or sacred grove, as the case may be. Then the congregants may pray to their heart's content, without raising church/state problems.

 

[koshergrl]

It was a little girl saying a prayer.

There are no prayer police in school, nor should there ever be. A preschool student opted to say a little prayer. What do you propose should be done? How does this show that religion is being "established" in the school?

Should the preschooler be locked up? Should she have been hustled off the stage? Bullwhipped? WHAT DO YOU WANT TO HAPPEN to CHILDREN who opt to publicly pray at school?

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

What is it about prayer, specifically christian prayer, that so terrifies athiests and others without some other religious avocation? Why is it that even the whispered hint of christian murmurings sends these loonbats streaking off to litigation? What are they afraid of? Words? And yet, they continue to demand that their "faith" be honored and respected.

Atheist group, angry mom go ballistic over prayer at pretend preschool commencement

The issue has nothing to do with ‘prayer.’

The issue concerns violations of the Framers’ original intent to keep church and state separate, in accordance with First Amendment case law.

Government actions must have a secular purpose, government may not promote religion, and there may not be excessive entanglement of religion and the state. See: Lemon v. Kurtzman (1971).

In general, and for the most part, prayer in public schools is in violation of Establishment Clause jurisprudence. And it’s perfectly appropriate for citizens to object to such potential violations, and request the issue be reviewed.

 

[koshergrl]

You dumb fucks.

This is a little girl at a mock-up, fake little graduation ceremony for preschoolers. She said a little prayer. Boo fucking hoo, get over it. She does not represent the government, and in no way does her little prayer force anyone else to drop to their knees and worship God Almighty.

Let's just go to war already. It's time to clean you yahoos off the face of the planet.

 

[KevinWestern]

Allowing someone to pray does not equal promoting their religion.
It is, merely, allowing "the free exercise thereof".

The problem is praying in a public, official fashion at a public school event, by a state sponsored educator.

I would not like the principal of my kid's school praying to Allah and praising the holy Koran at a graduation ceremony, would you? I would complain my head off!

Thoughts?


.

I'm open enough to the 'free exercise thereof' that it would not bother me to hear a Muslim prayer or a Buddhist hum or a Jewish recitation.
I respect all religions. Hearing them pray won't scar my psyche or force my conversion to their religion.

There's another part to that whole "free exercise thereof", though, that some tend to forget.

And that is, "Congress shall make NO LAW" regarding that exercising.

When do we start paying attention to that little tidbit?

I'm sure you can handle it (as could I) but were talking kids here who are very prone to influence.

Once again, would you be comfortable if you found out your 8-year old's teacher promotes the Koran, and Allah, through prayer during class at your community's public school?

Would you just tell your kid to "deal with it" at your taxpayer funded school?

Me personally - most definitely not. You?


.

 

[KevinWestern]

You dumb fucks.

This is a little girl at a mock-up, fake little graduation ceremony for preschoolers. She said a little prayer. Boo fucking hoo, get over it. She does not represent the government, and in no way does her little prayer force anyone else to drop to their knees and worship God Almighty.

Let's just go to war already. It's time to clean you yahoos off the face of the planet.

Why do people resort to name calling all the time, lol?

Are you nine and have no other way to express your opinion?

Keepin' it classy, Kosher.