Student has homework assignment to say she wants to be Muslim

[USNavyVet]

[/QUOTE]
No one has said it is okay. Do you see the left supporting this assignment? The motivation is most likely for students to look at Islam from the perspective of a Muslim, thus hoping to create a more enlightened and knowledgeable environment. Too many Americans have very skewed ideas about Islam.

But this was not an appropriate assignment. The most appropriate thing would be for this to be studied in a social studies class that studies world religions from a fact based perspective and let the students decide what they think. However, at the high school/middle school level, there isn't enough time for a curriculum that includes such specific courses; they are more likely to have such courses at the college level. High school has world history, American history, history of Western civilization, European history. That's about it.[/QUOTE]

I agree that this is an inappropriate assignment however when I went to school we had World Religions in 6th grade. We learned abut the different religions but would never had an assignment like this That assignment is typical lefty loon bullshit. It teaches nothing to anyone.

 

[Mudda]

I bet the teacher was a camel jockey.

 

[SeaGal]

I note that this occurred in Britain. If it occurred, and not presented in the article out of context, it should never have happened. Over here, in the U.S., it shows why we should never have religion in our schools and any of the school districts that allow our U.S. students to be directed toward one religion or the other, including holding mandatory assemblies that feature religious speakers and teachers who lead their students in "prayer," should be punished. A child's religious upbringing should be in the hands of the parents, so no scripture reading or prayer should be part of a student's school day.

I do agree with you - on public school grounds, during the school day studies should cover academics...which in the higher grades could include a study of 'religions' or 'governments' without religious or spiritual or political bias.

Before and after the school day voluntary participation in a club or group activity that is religious based, or includes prayer should be allowed.

We need a distinct line between religious and political instruction - and a students free exercise of expression. If anything, I think that's where we might have an issue here in the US.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Well, as much as the assignment could have been presented in a better manner, it sounds like the aims of the assignment are to write about Islam and to do it in a more creative and engaging manner.

Fine. But to write an essay about wanting to become such and such to their parents? WTF for??? Its an asinine idea and should not be part of any curriculum. Leave religion OUT of the school. Thats what they have been fighting for, right? No commandments, no prayers, no anything. But now all of a sudden its AOK to have kids write a fake announcement to becoming a certain religion? Gimme a break.

Like I said, it could have been presented in a better manner. Problem is teachers are often overworked and when you're overworked you don't always have time to think about all the consequences of your actions.

No, don't leave religion out of education. Kids need to learn about other people's beliefs and try and understand different people's viewpoints. It's actually a good subject to get kids thinking about things and seeing different sides of the same argument.

They don't need to pray, they need to think about why people pray and also why others don't.

Is it okay to write fiction?

If I asked kids to write about being a wizard, would that also be not okay for you?

No. Kids need to learn spiritual matters from their parents. Not some teacher in a school. Just like it is not the teachers duty to spank a child. That is also the parents job. There needs to be a line here somewhere that cannot be crossed. Alas, there isn't. Which is why if I had kids that were school age...they would be home schooled.

This isn't spiritual stuff. This is about tolerance, understand. Religion is a part of the world, you can't just ignore it.

Oh yes I can, and so would my kid when at school if I had one. And yes, it is spiritual stuff. That is NOT a teachers job!!

Well, sure, you can ignore reality, get them prepared to vote for someone like Trump in the end.

But would you really want your kids to be IGNORANT? Seriously? Surely parents want their kids to be better than that.

You said to be that you hope I'm not a parent, well.... how quickly things turn around.

Here's a scenario.

Your kid grows up to be an adult and then comes across a Muslim or a Hindu or whatever, and then they have to work with this person. How are they going to know how to tolerate, respect, cooperate with this person?

 

[frigidweirdo]

Teachers have no business butting in to children's spiritual beliefs. That is the parents duty..not theirs.

Well, as much as the assignment could have been presented in a better manner, it sounds like the aims of the assignment are to write about Islam and to do it in a more creative and engaging manner.

Fine. But to write an essay about wanting to become such and such to their parents? WTF for??? Its an asinine idea and should not be part of any curriculum. Leave religion OUT of the school. Thats what they have been fighting for, right? No commandments, no prayers, no anything. But now all of a sudden its AOK to have kids write a fake announcement to becoming a certain religion? Gimme a break.

No one has said it is okay. Do you see the left supporting this assignment? The motivation is most likely for students to look at Islam from the perspective of a Muslim, thus hoping to create a more enlightened and knowledgeable environment. Too many Americans have very skewed ideas about Islam.

But this was not an appropriate assignment. The most appropriate thing would be for this to be studied in a social studies class that studies world religions from a fact based perspective and let the students decide what they think. However, at the high school/middle school level, there isn't enough time for a curriculum that includes such specific courses; they are more likely to have such courses at the college level. High school has world history, American history, history of Western civilization, European history. That's about it.

The biggest problem here is that kids study traditional subjects. Subjects can be used as tools for certain skills, but more often than not the teachers get so used to teaching the subject rather than teaching what is necessary. To be honest a single teacher cannot cope with designing a course that is relevant for this, it needs a whole group of teachers, statewide or nationwide to get together and make something like this happen.

Learning skills and using certain subjects would be the right way forward. Were the skills to be learned made clear, then such an assignment wouldn't be so ridiculous at all.

The basics are important, and there really isn't time for courses as specific as teaching about different religions. I taught for 30 years. Most teachers are quite creative but do need to stay within curriculum requirements, as well as stay within the guidelines of a secular society. I taught for 14 years in international schools, including schools in Muslim countries. What international schools do is deal with tolerance and internationalism though celebrating the various international days such as:

International Religion Day
International Freedom Day
International Environmental Education Day
International Customs Day
Women's Day
UN Day
International Peace Day
etc.

Usually includes a big deal assembly, bulletin boards around the school, bake sales, and so on. High school students especially do not have the time to devote much more in class than what they need to meet graduation requirements and prepare for university. However, their participation in such events as listed above can be put on college applications, so they often participate as an extra-curricular activity.

Well, like I said, I've seen history classes for kids around 11 years old where it was about dealing with sources. How do you take a source and understand what that source means? They did this in relation to the Battle of Hasting, 1066 and all that, a time where sources are biased, lots of information is missing, but the kids were expected to come up with their own opinions.

Imagine a class of 11 year olds have more skills at debating that the vast majority of this forum.

Learning history isn't that important. It doesn't matter what you study as long as you study something to gain the skills.

When it comes to religion, what do you need to study? Some facts are essential because it's about understanding different cultures. But what skills could you get from teaching religion, what skills could you emphasis? Tolerance and understanding is one of them. Making an argument, similar to what you can do in History is another. I'm sure there are other skills that can be taught by using religion. The religion you teach isn't that important, it's what you want to get out of it. The problem is that you need lots of people working together to make such a curriculum, and teachers understand what they're going to be doing and why.

I've met some visionaries trying to get such things into the classroom, and when you see it's not happening, it makes you sad.

 

[Esmeralda]

Well, as much as the assignment could have been presented in a better manner, it sounds like the aims of the assignment are to write about Islam and to do it in a more creative and engaging manner.

Fine. But to write an essay about wanting to become such and such to their parents? WTF for??? Its an asinine idea and should not be part of any curriculum. Leave religion OUT of the school. Thats what they have been fighting for, right? No commandments, no prayers, no anything. But now all of a sudden its AOK to have kids write a fake announcement to becoming a certain religion? Gimme a break.

No one has said it is okay. Do you see the left supporting this assignment? The motivation is most likely for students to look at Islam from the perspective of a Muslim, thus hoping to create a more enlightened and knowledgeable environment. Too many Americans have very skewed ideas about Islam.

But this was not an appropriate assignment. The most appropriate thing would be for this to be studied in a social studies class that studies world religions from a fact based perspective and let the students decide what they think. However, at the high school/middle school level, there isn't enough time for a curriculum that includes such specific courses; they are more likely to have such courses at the college level. High school has world history, American history, history of Western civilization, European history. That's about it.

The biggest problem here is that kids study traditional subjects. Subjects can be used as tools for certain skills, but more often than not the teachers get so used to teaching the subject rather than teaching what is necessary. To be honest a single teacher cannot cope with designing a course that is relevant for this, it needs a whole group of teachers, statewide or nationwide to get together and make something like this happen.

Learning skills and using certain subjects would be the right way forward. Were the skills to be learned made clear, then such an assignment wouldn't be so ridiculous at all.

The basics are important, and there really isn't time for courses as specific as teaching about different religions. I taught for 30 years. Most teachers are quite creative but do need to stay within curriculum requirements, as well as stay within the guidelines of a secular society. I taught for 14 years in international schools, including schools in Muslim countries. What international schools do is deal with tolerance and internationalism though celebrating the various international days such as:

International Religion Day
International Freedom Day
International Environmental Education Day
International Customs Day
Women's Day
UN Day
International Peace Day
etc.

Usually includes a big deal assembly, bulletin boards around the school, bake sales, and so on. High school students especially do not have the time to devote much more in class than what they need to meet graduation requirements and prepare for university. However, their participation in such events as listed above can be put on college applications, so they often participate as an extra-curricular activity.

Well, like I said, I've seen history classes for kids around 11 years old where it was about dealing with sources. How do you take a source and understand what that source means? They did this in relation to the Battle of Hasting, 1066 and all that, a time where sources are biased, lots of information is missing, but the kids were expected to come up with their own opinions.

Imagine a class of 11 year olds have more skills at debating that the vast majority of this forum.

Learning history isn't that important. It doesn't matter what you study as long as you study something to gain the skills.

When it comes to religion, what do you need to study? Some facts are essential because it's about understanding different cultures. But what skills could you get from teaching religion, what skills could you emphasis? Tolerance and understanding is one of them. Making an argument, similar to what you can do in History is another. I'm sure there are other skills that can be taught by using religion. The religion you teach isn't that important, it's what you want to get out of it. The problem is that you need lots of people working together to make such a curriculum, and teachers understand what they're going to be doing and why.

I've met some visionaries trying to get such things into the classroom, and when you see it's not happening, it makes you sad.

Learning history is exceedingly important! ""Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." "Knowledge is power." Ignorance of history is a terrible thing.

You said "Skills are important.." Yes, but a good education is not merely preparation for an occupation. It is teaching kids how to think, how to be life long learners and the value of knowledge.

Learning about sources is learning to discern where the source of information came from and if it is a reliable source. Something you can see is often much needed on this board, and it is a hallmark of knowing how to think.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Fine. But to write an essay about wanting to become such and such to their parents? WTF for??? Its an asinine idea and should not be part of any curriculum. Leave religion OUT of the school. Thats what they have been fighting for, right? No commandments, no prayers, no anything. But now all of a sudden its AOK to have kids write a fake announcement to becoming a certain religion? Gimme a break.

No one has said it is okay. Do you see the left supporting this assignment? The motivation is most likely for students to look at Islam from the perspective of a Muslim, thus hoping to create a more enlightened and knowledgeable environment. Too many Americans have very skewed ideas about Islam.

But this was not an appropriate assignment. The most appropriate thing would be for this to be studied in a social studies class that studies world religions from a fact based perspective and let the students decide what they think. However, at the high school/middle school level, there isn't enough time for a curriculum that includes such specific courses; they are more likely to have such courses at the college level. High school has world history, American history, history of Western civilization, European history. That's about it.

The biggest problem here is that kids study traditional subjects. Subjects can be used as tools for certain skills, but more often than not the teachers get so used to teaching the subject rather than teaching what is necessary. To be honest a single teacher cannot cope with designing a course that is relevant for this, it needs a whole group of teachers, statewide or nationwide to get together and make something like this happen.

Learning skills and using certain subjects would be the right way forward. Were the skills to be learned made clear, then such an assignment wouldn't be so ridiculous at all.

The basics are important, and there really isn't time for courses as specific as teaching about different religions. I taught for 30 years. Most teachers are quite creative but do need to stay within curriculum requirements, as well as stay within the guidelines of a secular society. I taught for 14 years in international schools, including schools in Muslim countries. What international schools do is deal with tolerance and internationalism though celebrating the various international days such as:

International Religion Day
International Freedom Day
International Environmental Education Day
International Customs Day
Women's Day
UN Day
International Peace Day
etc.

Usually includes a big deal assembly, bulletin boards around the school, bake sales, and so on. High school students especially do not have the time to devote much more in class than what they need to meet graduation requirements and prepare for university. However, their participation in such events as listed above can be put on college applications, so they often participate as an extra-curricular activity.

Well, like I said, I've seen history classes for kids around 11 years old where it was about dealing with sources. How do you take a source and understand what that source means? They did this in relation to the Battle of Hasting, 1066 and all that, a time where sources are biased, lots of information is missing, but the kids were expected to come up with their own opinions.

Imagine a class of 11 year olds have more skills at debating that the vast majority of this forum.

Learning history isn't that important. It doesn't matter what you study as long as you study something to gain the skills.

When it comes to religion, what do you need to study? Some facts are essential because it's about understanding different cultures. But what skills could you get from teaching religion, what skills could you emphasis? Tolerance and understanding is one of them. Making an argument, similar to what you can do in History is another. I'm sure there are other skills that can be taught by using religion. The religion you teach isn't that important, it's what you want to get out of it. The problem is that you need lots of people working together to make such a curriculum, and teachers understand what they're going to be doing and why.

I've met some visionaries trying to get such things into the classroom, and when you see it's not happening, it makes you sad.

Learning history is exceedingly important! ""Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." "Knowledge is power." Ignorance of history is a terrible thing.

You said "Skills are important.." Yes, but a good education is not merely preparation for an occupation. It is teaching kids how to think, how to be life long learners and the value of knowledge.

The problem is, how many people are going to make the same mistakes as Hitler? You have to be in government for that, and right at the top.

Yes, knowledge is power, but what knowledge? What knowledge helps people the most in the modern world? How to fight against Romans or mathematics or Science whatever?

Yes, it's teaching kids how to think, but what I'm saying is it's better to teach kids how to think using History, rather than using History to teach kids how to think.

 

[Unkotare]

There goes Britain not having a constitution again.

 

[Esmeralda]

No one has said it is okay. Do you see the left supporting this assignment? The motivation is most likely for students to look at Islam from the perspective of a Muslim, thus hoping to create a more enlightened and knowledgeable environment. Too many Americans have very skewed ideas about Islam.

But this was not an appropriate assignment. The most appropriate thing would be for this to be studied in a social studies class that studies world religions from a fact based perspective and let the students decide what they think. However, at the high school/middle school level, there isn't enough time for a curriculum that includes such specific courses; they are more likely to have such courses at the college level. High school has world history, American history, history of Western civilization, European history. That's about it.

The biggest problem here is that kids study traditional subjects. Subjects can be used as tools for certain skills, but more often than not the teachers get so used to teaching the subject rather than teaching what is necessary. To be honest a single teacher cannot cope with designing a course that is relevant for this, it needs a whole group of teachers, statewide or nationwide to get together and make something like this happen.

Learning skills and using certain subjects would be the right way forward. Were the skills to be learned made clear, then such an assignment wouldn't be so ridiculous at all.

The basics are important, and there really isn't time for courses as specific as teaching about different religions. I taught for 30 years. Most teachers are quite creative but do need to stay within curriculum requirements, as well as stay within the guidelines of a secular society. I taught for 14 years in international schools, including schools in Muslim countries. What international schools do is deal with tolerance and internationalism though celebrating the various international days such as:

International Religion Day
International Freedom Day
International Environmental Education Day
International Customs Day
Women's Day
UN Day
International Peace Day
etc.

Usually includes a big deal assembly, bulletin boards around the school, bake sales, and so on. High school students especially do not have the time to devote much more in class than what they need to meet graduation requirements and prepare for university. However, their participation in such events as listed above can be put on college applications, so they often participate as an extra-curricular activity.

Well, like I said, I've seen history classes for kids around 11 years old where it was about dealing with sources. How do you take a source and understand what that source means? They did this in relation to the Battle of Hasting, 1066 and all that, a time where sources are biased, lots of information is missing, but the kids were expected to come up with their own opinions.

Imagine a class of 11 year olds have more skills at debating that the vast majority of this forum.

Learning history isn't that important. It doesn't matter what you study as long as you study something to gain the skills.

When it comes to religion, what do you need to study? Some facts are essential because it's about understanding different cultures. But what skills could you get from teaching religion, what skills could you emphasis? Tolerance and understanding is one of them. Making an argument, similar to what you can do in History is another. I'm sure there are other skills that can be taught by using religion. The religion you teach isn't that important, it's what you want to get out of it. The problem is that you need lots of people working together to make such a curriculum, and teachers understand what they're going to be doing and why.

I've met some visionaries trying to get such things into the classroom, and when you see it's not happening, it makes you sad.

Learning history is exceedingly important! ""Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." "Knowledge is power." Ignorance of history is a terrible thing.

You said "Skills are important.." Yes, but a good education is not merely preparation for an occupation. It is teaching kids how to think, how to be life long learners and the value of knowledge.

The problem is, how many people are going to make the same mistakes as Hitler? You have to be in government for that, and right at the top.

Yes, knowledge is power, but what knowledge? What knowledge helps people the most in the modern world? How to fight against Romans or mathematics or Science whatever?

Yes, it's teaching kids how to think, but what I'm saying is it's better to teach kids how to think using History, rather than using History to teach kids how to think.

It isn't the specific things people may have done but the thinking behind what they did. I've lived in Germany. No country in the world teaches the Holocaust as thoroughly as they do in Germany. It's not about Hitler per se but about prejudice and bigotry, about ethnic cleansing. We have that problem around the world on a continuous basis. It isn't about the Romans but the concepts that led to their behavior, another thing we have to contend with on a daily basis around the world.

"it's better to teach kids how to think using History, rather than using History to teach kids how to think." I don't get what you're saying.

Science and math are not less or more important than history, language, art--all the humanities. Science isn't any good to us unless we understand how to use it for the better not for the worse. The humanities are just as important as the hard sciences.

 

[frigidweirdo]

The biggest problem here is that kids study traditional subjects. Subjects can be used as tools for certain skills, but more often than not the teachers get so used to teaching the subject rather than teaching what is necessary. To be honest a single teacher cannot cope with designing a course that is relevant for this, it needs a whole group of teachers, statewide or nationwide to get together and make something like this happen.

Learning skills and using certain subjects would be the right way forward. Were the skills to be learned made clear, then such an assignment wouldn't be so ridiculous at all.

The basics are important, and there really isn't time for courses as specific as teaching about different religions. I taught for 30 years. Most teachers are quite creative but do need to stay within curriculum requirements, as well as stay within the guidelines of a secular society. I taught for 14 years in international schools, including schools in Muslim countries. What international schools do is deal with tolerance and internationalism though celebrating the various international days such as:

International Religion Day
International Freedom Day
International Environmental Education Day
International Customs Day
Women's Day
UN Day
International Peace Day
etc.

Usually includes a big deal assembly, bulletin boards around the school, bake sales, and so on. High school students especially do not have the time to devote much more in class than what they need to meet graduation requirements and prepare for university. However, their participation in such events as listed above can be put on college applications, so they often participate as an extra-curricular activity.

Well, like I said, I've seen history classes for kids around 11 years old where it was about dealing with sources. How do you take a source and understand what that source means? They did this in relation to the Battle of Hasting, 1066 and all that, a time where sources are biased, lots of information is missing, but the kids were expected to come up with their own opinions.

Imagine a class of 11 year olds have more skills at debating that the vast majority of this forum.

Learning history isn't that important. It doesn't matter what you study as long as you study something to gain the skills.

When it comes to religion, what do you need to study? Some facts are essential because it's about understanding different cultures. But what skills could you get from teaching religion, what skills could you emphasis? Tolerance and understanding is one of them. Making an argument, similar to what you can do in History is another. I'm sure there are other skills that can be taught by using religion. The religion you teach isn't that important, it's what you want to get out of it. The problem is that you need lots of people working together to make such a curriculum, and teachers understand what they're going to be doing and why.

I've met some visionaries trying to get such things into the classroom, and when you see it's not happening, it makes you sad.

Learning history is exceedingly important! ""Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." "Knowledge is power." Ignorance of history is a terrible thing.

You said "Skills are important.." Yes, but a good education is not merely preparation for an occupation. It is teaching kids how to think, how to be life long learners and the value of knowledge.

The problem is, how many people are going to make the same mistakes as Hitler? You have to be in government for that, and right at the top.

Yes, knowledge is power, but what knowledge? What knowledge helps people the most in the modern world? How to fight against Romans or mathematics or Science whatever?

Yes, it's teaching kids how to think, but what I'm saying is it's better to teach kids how to think using History, rather than using History to teach kids how to think.

It isn't the specific things people may have done but the thinking behind what they did. I've lived in Germany. No country in the world teaches the Holocaust as thoroughly as they do in Germany. It's not about Hitlers per se but about prejudice and bigotry, about ethnic cleansing. We have that problem around the world on a continuous basis. It isn't about the Romans but the concepts that led to their behavior, another thing we have to contend with on a daily basis around the world.

"it's better to teach kids how to think using History, rather than using History to teach kids how to think." I don't get what you're saying.

Science and math are not less or more important than history, language, art--all the humanities. Science isn't any good to us unless we understand how to use it for the better not for the worse. The humanities are just as important as the hard sciences.

Yes, of course. But how much thinking goes into it in the classroom? Or is it just, this happen, that happened blah blah? History can be taught in different ways.

Yes, the Germans want to make sure Nazism doesn't come back. However there are still neo-Nazis in Germany. Now, the more well educated people are, the less likely they're going to think in certain ways. Teach people certain skills and society will follow.

Okay, I could teach History, and in the process of teaching history some kids might come across the idea of this or that.

Or I could teach this or that and use History as the tool with which to do it.

It's the mentality of the teacher. What are you teaching? A History teacher teachers History. But a logic teacher teaches logic. They can both use WW2 or whatever to teach what they're teaching, but when the emphasis is on the skills kids need, rather than simply teaching the subject, you're going to find pupils with a much better skills set than otherwise.

Different subjects can be important, but why? Why is literature, for example important? Really it's not actually that important, so how does it survive in the modern era? Probably because A) people are stuck in their ways and B) because actually there are some great skills that can be taught through teaching literature.

If society looks at the skills that are needed in the modern era, and then set out to teach those skills using a variety of topics, it would probably seem far more relevant to a lot of students than just studying History or Literature.

 

[Esmeralda]

The basics are important, and there really isn't time for courses as specific as teaching about different religions. I taught for 30 years. Most teachers are quite creative but do need to stay within curriculum requirements, as well as stay within the guidelines of a secular society. I taught for 14 years in international schools, including schools in Muslim countries. What international schools do is deal with tolerance and internationalism though celebrating the various international days such as:

International Religion Day
International Freedom Day
International Environmental Education Day
International Customs Day
Women's Day
UN Day
International Peace Day
etc.

Usually includes a big deal assembly, bulletin boards around the school, bake sales, and so on. High school students especially do not have the time to devote much more in class than what they need to meet graduation requirements and prepare for university. However, their participation in such events as listed above can be put on college applications, so they often participate as an extra-curricular activity.

Well, like I said, I've seen history classes for kids around 11 years old where it was about dealing with sources. How do you take a source and understand what that source means? They did this in relation to the Battle of Hasting, 1066 and all that, a time where sources are biased, lots of information is missing, but the kids were expected to come up with their own opinions.

Imagine a class of 11 year olds have more skills at debating that the vast majority of this forum.

Learning history isn't that important. It doesn't matter what you study as long as you study something to gain the skills.

When it comes to religion, what do you need to study? Some facts are essential because it's about understanding different cultures. But what skills could you get from teaching religion, what skills could you emphasis? Tolerance and understanding is one of them. Making an argument, similar to what you can do in History is another. I'm sure there are other skills that can be taught by using religion. The religion you teach isn't that important, it's what you want to get out of it. The problem is that you need lots of people working together to make such a curriculum, and teachers understand what they're going to be doing and why.

I've met some visionaries trying to get such things into the classroom, and when you see it's not happening, it makes you sad.

Learning history is exceedingly important! ""Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." "Knowledge is power." Ignorance of history is a terrible thing.

You said "Skills are important.." Yes, but a good education is not merely preparation for an occupation. It is teaching kids how to think, how to be life long learners and the value of knowledge.

The problem is, how many people are going to make the same mistakes as Hitler? You have to be in government for that, and right at the top.

Yes, knowledge is power, but what knowledge? What knowledge helps people the most in the modern world? How to fight against Romans or mathematics or Science whatever?

Yes, it's teaching kids how to think, but what I'm saying is it's better to teach kids how to think using History, rather than using History to teach kids how to think.

It isn't the specific things people may have done but the thinking behind what they did. I've lived in Germany. No country in the world teaches the Holocaust as thoroughly as they do in Germany. It's not about Hitlers per se but about prejudice and bigotry, about ethnic cleansing. We have that problem around the world on a continuous basis. It isn't about the Romans but the concepts that led to their behavior, another thing we have to contend with on a daily basis around the world.

"it's better to teach kids how to think using History, rather than using History to teach kids how to think." I don't get what you're saying.

Science and math are not less or more important than history, language, art--all the humanities. Science isn't any good to us unless we understand how to use it for the better not for the worse. The humanities are just as important as the hard sciences.

Yes, of course. But how much thinking goes into it in the classroom? Or is it just, this happen, that happened blah blah? History can be taught in different ways.

Yes, the Germans want to make sure Nazism doesn't come back. However there are still neo-Nazis in Germany. Now, the more well educated people are, the less likely they're going to think in certain ways. Teach people certain skills and society will follow.

Okay, I could teach History, and in the process of teaching history some kids might come across the idea of this or that.

Or I could teach this or that and use History as the tool with which to do it.

It's the mentality of the teacher. What are you teaching? A History teacher teachers History. But a logic teacher teaches logic. They can both use WW2 or whatever to teach what they're teaching, but when the emphasis is on the skills kids need, rather than simply teaching the subject, you're going to find pupils with a much better skills set than otherwise.

Different subjects can be important, but why? Why is literature, for example important? Really it's not actually that important, so how does it survive in the modern era? Probably because A) people are stuck in their ways and B) because actually there are some great skills that can be taught through teaching literature.

If society looks at the skills that are needed in the modern era, and then set out to teach those skills using a variety of topics, it would probably seem far more relevant to a lot of students than just studying History or Literature.

Your purpose as a teacher in a public school isn't to teach morality, it is to teach students how to think for themselves. You teach history and in teaching history, the student comes to his and her conclusions about what it means to us as a civilization. You ask questions but do not prescribe the answer. Your purpose as an educator is not simply to teach facts but to teach students to think about those facts.

Literature, all art, is very important. Art, indeed the humanities, is a reflection of history, culture, and humanity itself. Again,you don't teach literature and art simply to pass on facts but to teach kids to think about our world--past, present and future.

 

[anotherlife]

So what, I had a homework in high school where I had to answer questions about how do I become gay. This is actually not a complete joke, this is how it was.

 

[Unkotare]

So what, I had a homework in high school where I had to answer questions about how do I become gay. This is actually not a complete joke, this is how it was.

I'll bet you did really, really well on that assignment....

 

[Two Thumbs]

Stepfather refuses to let his child do homework on Islam | Daily Mail Online

'Write letter to family about converting to Islam': Furious stepfather refuses to let his stepdaughter, 12, complete her homework after she is asked to pen them a note about becoming a Muslim

• Mark McLachlan found the homework task in his stepdaughter's school planner
• She was to write a letter to her family explaining why she has become a Muslim
• He was furious and refused to let her finish it, saying it was 'wholly inappropriate'

I find some interesting stuff when browsing in the wee hours over the internet, lol.

Hope the father goes down to school and beats the teachers ass with the principle.

Yeah, because writing a piece of fiction is WORSE than beating someone.

Where do you people come from?

Are you pretending to not understand the idiocy of the homework or are you professionally stewpud?

 

[Two Thumbs]

For the chronically dumb as fuck;


We are at war with islam, the teacher is just being another America hating leftist.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Well, like I said, I've seen history classes for kids around 11 years old where it was about dealing with sources. How do you take a source and understand what that source means? They did this in relation to the Battle of Hasting, 1066 and all that, a time where sources are biased, lots of information is missing, but the kids were expected to come up with their own opinions.

Imagine a class of 11 year olds have more skills at debating that the vast majority of this forum.

Learning history isn't that important. It doesn't matter what you study as long as you study something to gain the skills.

When it comes to religion, what do you need to study? Some facts are essential because it's about understanding different cultures. But what skills could you get from teaching religion, what skills could you emphasis? Tolerance and understanding is one of them. Making an argument, similar to what you can do in History is another. I'm sure there are other skills that can be taught by using religion. The religion you teach isn't that important, it's what you want to get out of it. The problem is that you need lots of people working together to make such a curriculum, and teachers understand what they're going to be doing and why.

I've met some visionaries trying to get such things into the classroom, and when you see it's not happening, it makes you sad.

Learning history is exceedingly important! ""Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." "Knowledge is power." Ignorance of history is a terrible thing.

You said "Skills are important.." Yes, but a good education is not merely preparation for an occupation. It is teaching kids how to think, how to be life long learners and the value of knowledge.

The problem is, how many people are going to make the same mistakes as Hitler? You have to be in government for that, and right at the top.

Yes, knowledge is power, but what knowledge? What knowledge helps people the most in the modern world? How to fight against Romans or mathematics or Science whatever?

Yes, it's teaching kids how to think, but what I'm saying is it's better to teach kids how to think using History, rather than using History to teach kids how to think.

It isn't the specific things people may have done but the thinking behind what they did. I've lived in Germany. No country in the world teaches the Holocaust as thoroughly as they do in Germany. It's not about Hitlers per se but about prejudice and bigotry, about ethnic cleansing. We have that problem around the world on a continuous basis. It isn't about the Romans but the concepts that led to their behavior, another thing we have to contend with on a daily basis around the world.

"it's better to teach kids how to think using History, rather than using History to teach kids how to think." I don't get what you're saying.

Science and math are not less or more important than history, language, art--all the humanities. Science isn't any good to us unless we understand how to use it for the better not for the worse. The humanities are just as important as the hard sciences.

Yes, of course. But how much thinking goes into it in the classroom? Or is it just, this happen, that happened blah blah? History can be taught in different ways.

Yes, the Germans want to make sure Nazism doesn't come back. However there are still neo-Nazis in Germany. Now, the more well educated people are, the less likely they're going to think in certain ways. Teach people certain skills and society will follow.

Okay, I could teach History, and in the process of teaching history some kids might come across the idea of this or that.

Or I could teach this or that and use History as the tool with which to do it.

It's the mentality of the teacher. What are you teaching? A History teacher teachers History. But a logic teacher teaches logic. They can both use WW2 or whatever to teach what they're teaching, but when the emphasis is on the skills kids need, rather than simply teaching the subject, you're going to find pupils with a much better skills set than otherwise.

Different subjects can be important, but why? Why is literature, for example important? Really it's not actually that important, so how does it survive in the modern era? Probably because A) people are stuck in their ways and B) because actually there are some great skills that can be taught through teaching literature.

If society looks at the skills that are needed in the modern era, and then set out to teach those skills using a variety of topics, it would probably seem far more relevant to a lot of students than just studying History or Literature.

Your purpose as a teacher in a public school isn't to teach morality, it is to teach students how to think for themselves. You teach history and in teaching history, the student comes to his and her conclusions about what it means to us as a civilization. You ask questions but do not prescribe the answer. Your purpose as an educator is not simply to teach facts but to teach students to think about those facts.

Literature, all art, is very important. Art, indeed the humanities, is a reflection of history, culture, and humanity itself. Again,you don't teach literature and art simply to pass on facts but to teach kids to think about our world--past, present and future.

Morality and thinking for yourself aren't the same?

The problem here is that anyone can think for themselves, you just don't educate them, then they're thinking for themselves. What you want is them thinking for themselves in a controlled manner. Being able to think about what is right and wrong is being able to control your thought process with more agility and strength.

Basically the way I see how you see teaching History is "you teach 'em History and hope to hell that they learn something from it".

You don't need to give the answers when teaching thinking. The whole point is that they learn to come up with answers themselves. Teaching kids that there are multiple answers is part of the issue. But you have to actually teach that, not just hope they pick it up.

I think most of the time I studied History it was a waste of time, and I was one of the kids who liked History more than most. Only one lesson I remember and that is when we studied how to deal with sources. If there was a message in most of those History lessons, I didn't get it.

Yes, you can teach literature and art and hope that they get it. Some kids won't, some kids won't enjoy it, and shouldn't be learning the necessary skills through something they don't really enjoy. However if they're studying it not in Art class of Literature class but know they're doing it in order to learn skills, they might be more receptive.

 

[Esmeralda]

Learning history is exceedingly important! ""Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." "Knowledge is power." Ignorance of history is a terrible thing.

You said "Skills are important.." Yes, but a good education is not merely preparation for an occupation. It is teaching kids how to think, how to be life long learners and the value of knowledge.

The problem is, how many people are going to make the same mistakes as Hitler? You have to be in government for that, and right at the top.

Yes, knowledge is power, but what knowledge? What knowledge helps people the most in the modern world? How to fight against Romans or mathematics or Science whatever?

Yes, it's teaching kids how to think, but what I'm saying is it's better to teach kids how to think using History, rather than using History to teach kids how to think.

It isn't the specific things people may have done but the thinking behind what they did. I've lived in Germany. No country in the world teaches the Holocaust as thoroughly as they do in Germany. It's not about Hitlers per se but about prejudice and bigotry, about ethnic cleansing. We have that problem around the world on a continuous basis. It isn't about the Romans but the concepts that led to their behavior, another thing we have to contend with on a daily basis around the world.

"it's better to teach kids how to think using History, rather than using History to teach kids how to think." I don't get what you're saying.

Science and math are not less or more important than history, language, art--all the humanities. Science isn't any good to us unless we understand how to use it for the better not for the worse. The humanities are just as important as the hard sciences.

Yes, of course. But how much thinking goes into it in the classroom? Or is it just, this happen, that happened blah blah? History can be taught in different ways.

Yes, the Germans want to make sure Nazism doesn't come back. However there are still neo-Nazis in Germany. Now, the more well educated people are, the less likely they're going to think in certain ways. Teach people certain skills and society will follow.

Okay, I could teach History, and in the process of teaching history some kids might come across the idea of this or that.

Or I could teach this or that and use History as the tool with which to do it.

It's the mentality of the teacher. What are you teaching? A History teacher teachers History. But a logic teacher teaches logic. They can both use WW2 or whatever to teach what they're teaching, but when the emphasis is on the skills kids need, rather than simply teaching the subject, you're going to find pupils with a much better skills set than otherwise.

Different subjects can be important, but why? Why is literature, for example important? Really it's not actually that important, so how does it survive in the modern era? Probably because A) people are stuck in their ways and B) because actually there are some great skills that can be taught through teaching literature.

If society looks at the skills that are needed in the modern era, and then set out to teach those skills using a variety of topics, it would probably seem far more relevant to a lot of students than just studying History or Literature.

Your purpose as a teacher in a public school isn't to teach morality, it is to teach students how to think for themselves. You teach history and in teaching history, the student comes to his and her conclusions about what it means to us as a civilization. You ask questions but do not prescribe the answer. Your purpose as an educator is not simply to teach facts but to teach students to think about those facts.

Literature, all art, is very important. Art, indeed the humanities, is a reflection of history, culture, and humanity itself. Again,you don't teach literature and art simply to pass on facts but to teach kids to think about our world--past, present and future.

Morality and thinking for yourself aren't the same?

The problem here is that anyone can think for themselves, you just don't educate them, then they're thinking for themselves. What you want is them thinking for themselves in a controlled manner. Being able to think about what is right and wrong is being able to control your thought process with more agility and strength.

Basically the way I see how you see teaching History is "you teach 'em History and hope to hell that they learn something from it".

You don't need to give the answers when teaching thinking. The whole point is that they learn to come up with answers themselves. Teaching kids that there are multiple answers is part of the issue. But you have to actually teach that, not just hope they pick it up.

I think most of the time I studied History it was a waste of time, and I was one of the kids who liked History more than most. Only one lesson I remember and that is when we studied how to deal with sources. If there was a message in most of those History lessons, I didn't get it.

Yes, you can teach literature and art and hope that they get it. Some kids won't, some kids won't enjoy it, and shouldn't be learning the necessary skills through something they don't really enjoy. However if they're studying it not in Art class of Literature class but know they're doing it in order to learn skills, they might be more receptive.

You don't seem to understand what I'm saying. I taught for 30 years, half in the US and half internationally. I don't just teach facts and hope they pick up how to think. I guide them in the process of how to think through such things as discussion, debate, problem solving and group activities. Not teaching them what to think but how to think. "The whole point is that they learn to come up with answers themselves." Yes, but their answers, not prescribed answers. You don't teach them what to think. Teaching how to think and teaching subject matter are not two separate things.

My impression of what you say is that your education was some time ago and you aren't familiar with more modern methods and quality teaching. When I was in high school, I didn't get Shakespeare at all; that's because of the lousy teaching. Nowadays, if you have a good teacher, kids do get Shakespeare, and enjoy it, because the teacher will approach teaching it from different angles where the students are actively involved in experiencing it verbally, imaginatively, visually, and physically; you don't just sit and read it and explain what the words mean. Literature is not something that is meaningless to most of the population,not if it is well taught. Not everyone will like every piece of literature, of course, but understanding it as an art form that expresses the human condition in an artistic way is accessible to everyone, if you have a good teacher.

I think you didn't often have good teachers and were probably taught with old fashioned, uninspired methods.

In school, I was always interested in history too. But it was taught very badly and made uninteresting by being just a matter of remembering dates,names and places. Nowadays things are different. Here's a lesson about how to understand history.

The students read a passage from a novel that recounts an event which takes place between the British imperialist govenment in an African village and the people of the village. During this event, which is a fictionalized account of the type of thing that actually did occur, many of the villagers are killed by the British. A hypothetical international court is set up for the event to be reviewed. Students are put into groups: judges, defense (defending the British), prosecution (supporting the African villagers), people who testify to what they saw and did (based on the account in the novel excerpt) , historians, and reporters from various types of news outlets (conservative, liberal, tabloid, mainstream, etc.). The groups get together to plan their part in the exercise.

Then the trial is acted out with each group taking its part, playing out their role in this scenario. At the end the judges give their verdict and the reporters and historians write their accounts of the event and trial. Finally each group presents their work to the group as a whole and the entire class discusses the exercise.

This lesson is to teach how history is written. Today we don't just accept an historical account without questioning where it came from and how it was presented, what perspectives and biases might be involved. Different peoples will interpret history differently.

This is a memorable lesson for students because it teaches them to think about how we acquire knowledge and understanding of our world. I taught this lesson in an epistemology course.

Today's methods are different than they were 40 years ago.

 

[frigidweirdo]

The problem is, how many people are going to make the same mistakes as Hitler? You have to be in government for that, and right at the top.

Yes, knowledge is power, but what knowledge? What knowledge helps people the most in the modern world? How to fight against Romans or mathematics or Science whatever?

Yes, it's teaching kids how to think, but what I'm saying is it's better to teach kids how to think using History, rather than using History to teach kids how to think.

It isn't the specific things people may have done but the thinking behind what they did. I've lived in Germany. No country in the world teaches the Holocaust as thoroughly as they do in Germany. It's not about Hitlers per se but about prejudice and bigotry, about ethnic cleansing. We have that problem around the world on a continuous basis. It isn't about the Romans but the concepts that led to their behavior, another thing we have to contend with on a daily basis around the world.

"it's better to teach kids how to think using History, rather than using History to teach kids how to think." I don't get what you're saying.

Science and math are not less or more important than history, language, art--all the humanities. Science isn't any good to us unless we understand how to use it for the better not for the worse. The humanities are just as important as the hard sciences.

Yes, of course. But how much thinking goes into it in the classroom? Or is it just, this happen, that happened blah blah? History can be taught in different ways.

Yes, the Germans want to make sure Nazism doesn't come back. However there are still neo-Nazis in Germany. Now, the more well educated people are, the less likely they're going to think in certain ways. Teach people certain skills and society will follow.

Okay, I could teach History, and in the process of teaching history some kids might come across the idea of this or that.

Or I could teach this or that and use History as the tool with which to do it.

It's the mentality of the teacher. What are you teaching? A History teacher teachers History. But a logic teacher teaches logic. They can both use WW2 or whatever to teach what they're teaching, but when the emphasis is on the skills kids need, rather than simply teaching the subject, you're going to find pupils with a much better skills set than otherwise.

Different subjects can be important, but why? Why is literature, for example important? Really it's not actually that important, so how does it survive in the modern era? Probably because A) people are stuck in their ways and B) because actually there are some great skills that can be taught through teaching literature.

If society looks at the skills that are needed in the modern era, and then set out to teach those skills using a variety of topics, it would probably seem far more relevant to a lot of students than just studying History or Literature.

Your purpose as a teacher in a public school isn't to teach morality, it is to teach students how to think for themselves. You teach history and in teaching history, the student comes to his and her conclusions about what it means to us as a civilization. You ask questions but do not prescribe the answer. Your purpose as an educator is not simply to teach facts but to teach students to think about those facts.

Literature, all art, is very important. Art, indeed the humanities, is a reflection of history, culture, and humanity itself. Again,you don't teach literature and art simply to pass on facts but to teach kids to think about our world--past, present and future.

Morality and thinking for yourself aren't the same?

The problem here is that anyone can think for themselves, you just don't educate them, then they're thinking for themselves. What you want is them thinking for themselves in a controlled manner. Being able to think about what is right and wrong is being able to control your thought process with more agility and strength.

Basically the way I see how you see teaching History is "you teach 'em History and hope to hell that they learn something from it".

You don't need to give the answers when teaching thinking. The whole point is that they learn to come up with answers themselves. Teaching kids that there are multiple answers is part of the issue. But you have to actually teach that, not just hope they pick it up.

I think most of the time I studied History it was a waste of time, and I was one of the kids who liked History more than most. Only one lesson I remember and that is when we studied how to deal with sources. If there was a message in most of those History lessons, I didn't get it.

Yes, you can teach literature and art and hope that they get it. Some kids won't, some kids won't enjoy it, and shouldn't be learning the necessary skills through something they don't really enjoy. However if they're studying it not in Art class of Literature class but know they're doing it in order to learn skills, they might be more receptive.

You don't seem to understand what I'm saying. I taught for 30 years, half in the US and half internationally. I don't just teach facts and hope they pick up how to think. I guide them in the process of how to think through such things as discussion, debate, problem solving and group activities. Not teaching them what to think but how to think. "The whole point is that they learn to come up with answers themselves." Yes, but their answers, not prescribed answers. You don't teach them what to think. Teaching how to think and teaching subject matter are not two separate things.

My impression of what you say is that your education was some time ago and you aren't familiar with more modern methods and quality teaching. When I was in high school, I didn't get Shakespeare at all; that's because of the lousy teaching. Nowadays, if you have a good teacher, kids do get Shakespeare, and enjoy it, because the teacher will approach teaching it from different angles where the students are actively involved in experiencing it verbally, imaginatively, visually, and physically; you don't just sit and read it and explain what the words mean. Literature is not something that is meaningless to most of the population,not if it is well taught. Not everyone will like every piece of literature, of course, but understanding it as an art form that expresses the human condition in an artistic way is accessible to everyone, if you have a good teacher.

I think you didn't often have good teachers and were probably taught with old fashioned, uninspired methods.

In school, I was always interested in history too. But it was taught very badly and made uninteresting by being just a matter of remembering dates,names and places. Nowadays things are different. Here's a lesson about how to understand history.

The students read a passage from a novel that recounts an event which takes place between the British imperialist govenment in an African village and the people of the village. During this event, which is a fictionalized account of the type of thing that actually did occur, many of the villagers are killed by the British. A hypothetical international court is set up for the event to be reviewed. Students are put into groups: judges, defense (defending the British), prosecution (supporting the African villagers), people who testify to what they saw and did (based on the account in the novel excerpt) , historians, and reporters from various types of news outlets (conservative, liberal, tabloid, mainstream, etc.). The groups get together to plan their part in the exercise.

Then the trial is acted out with each group taking its part, playing out their role in this scenario. At the end the judges give their verdict and the reporters and historians write their accounts of the event and trial. Finally each group presents their work to the group as a whole and the entire class discusses the exercise.

This lesson is to teach how history is written. Today we don't just accept an historical account without questioning where it came from and how it was presented, what perspectives and biases might be involved. Different peoples will interpret history differently.

This is a memorable lesson for students because it teaches them to think about how we acquire knowledge and understanding of our world. I taught this lesson in an epistemology course.

Today's methods are different than they were 40 years ago.

I do understand what you're saying.

And I do understand the difference between teaching facts and teaching kids how to think for themselves.

My education was lousy, mainly because the methods of educating were known, but not taught.They were going to close my school down, but didn't because we had a guy who came in soon after I arrived and changed things. I've seen modern ways of teaching and this is exactly what I'm talking about. But probably going further than how you're thinking.

What I'm saying is you can teach History. Within History you can teach certain skills. Or you can take History off the syllabus and you can teach skills and use History and other subjects as the manner in which to teach those skills.

The question here is, what do schools want to teach? Does a school want to teach History or the skills needed for the future? The latter is far more useful to students, and as a by product of teaching those skills you learn some stuff about History, Literature etc.

It's a different way of thinking, approaching from a different angle with more emphasis on those skills.

 

[Unkotare]

For the chronically dumb as fuck;


We are at war with islam....

No we aren’t.

 

[ChrisL]

Yet these same people will pretend to be outraged by the mere mention of "the bible" in the public school system. How can they not see what hypocrites they are? How can you not see what is staring you plainly in the face?