CDZ Students Demand Removal of White Authors; Why is this not Condemned as Racist?

[Coyote]

Also the other problem with this thread is the article is about Western Civilization NOT western Literature. How many women and minorities had anything to do with creating western civilization? The liberals on this thread keep bringing up stuff NOT associated with the op and say but see they existed....

Actually, if you go to the article, Breitbart linked to a more comprehensive article. The group isn't talking about just "Western Civilization" - it wants all required readings and courses to have a diversity of authors:

With that, “no course or program of study should have a view limited to white, western, and/or male voices. We demand that people who are of Color, Indigenous, Black, queer, or not male are represented in the authorship of at least half course and major required readings,” the demand states.​

It's unrealistic, but it isn't in and of itself racist.

I can't wait until those of you with authoritarian racialist viewpoints are able to rework the 19th CENTURY European Literature courses according to your quota system.

How is it "authoritarian"? The students are typical students - passionate about what they believe even if they don't get the ramifications totally. But they have a point, broadening the scope of writers students are exposed to. THAT is not actually a bad thing and should be an ongoing goal of eduction imo. I don't see it as authoritarian.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

Also the other problem with this thread is the article is about Western Civilization NOT western Literature. How many women and minorities had anything to do with creating western civilization? The liberals on this thread keep bringing up stuff NOT associated with the op and say but see they existed....

Actually, if you go to the article, Breitbart linked to a more comprehensive article. The group isn't talking about just "Western Civilization" - it wants all required readings and courses to have a diversity of authors:

With that, “no course or program of study should have a view limited to white, western, and/or male voices. We demand that people who are of Color, Indigenous, Black, queer, or not male are represented in the authorship of at least half course and major required readings,” the demand states.​

It's unrealistic, but it isn't in and of itself racist.

I can't wait until those of you with authoritarian racialist viewpoints are able to rework the 19th CENTURY European Literature courses according to your quota system.

How is it "authoritarian"? The students are typical students - passionate about what they believe even if they don't get the ramifications totally. But they have a point, broadening the scope of writers students are exposed to. THAT is not actually a bad thing and should be an ongoing goal of eduction imo. I don't see it as authoritarian.

Making racist demands is inherently authoritarian and often times stupid as my example reveals.

My son is taking 20th century Japanese literature. should the likes of Kawabata or Oe be removed simply because students are demanding they be removed in favor of Black authors? It's madness.

The statement is that NO course should be allowed that are not given an arbitrary racial quota. In many cases, that is utterly unreasonable, and to comply would undermine the very purpose of education.

The best idea should always win. The best writing should always be favored. The best science should always prevail. The color blind approach is the approach that is not racist. Making everything about race simply because practitioners of authoritarian politics demands it is entirely racist.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Also the other problem with this thread is the article is about Western Civilization NOT western Literature. How many women and minorities had anything to do with creating western civilization? The liberals on this thread keep bringing up stuff NOT associated with the op and say but see they existed....

Actually, if you go to the article, Breitbart linked to a more comprehensive article. The group isn't talking about just "Western Civilization" - it wants all required readings and courses to have a diversity of authors:

With that, “no course or program of study should have a view limited to white, western, and/or male voices. We demand that people who are of Color, Indigenous, Black, queer, or not male are represented in the authorship of at least half course and major required readings,” the demand states.​

It's unrealistic, but it isn't in and of itself racist.

I can't wait until those of you with authoritarian racialist viewpoints are able to rework the 19th CENTURY European Literature courses according to your quota system.

How is it "authoritarian"? The students are typical students - passionate about what they believe even if they don't get the ramifications totally. But they have a point, broadening the scope of writers students are exposed to. THAT is not actually a bad thing and should be an ongoing goal of eduction imo. I don't see it as authoritarian.

Remind us how earlier you claimed it was not a problem how you twisted the claim about Western civ to western lit and then claimed there were enough authors of female and color to cover this while claiming removing an author for no other reason then they were white males was NOT racist?

 

[Frankeneinstein]

How is it "authoritarian"? The students are typical students - passionate about what they believe even if they don't get the ramifications totally. But they have a point, broadening the scope of writers students are exposed to. THAT is not actually a bad thing and should be an ongoing goal of eduction imo. I don't see it as authoritarian.

This is just such lily white liberalism...back door book banning isn't authoritarian but instead passionate? and the books being removed based on the skin color of the author is not racist?...pretzel logic and tortured truth are the DNA of white liberal thinking...this is why those who blame minorities for Americas problems need to take a good hard look at who is really behind all of this and the lame incite-ful propaganda in your post is proof of that.

 

[Coyote]

Also the other problem with this thread is the article is about Western Civilization NOT western Literature. How many women and minorities had anything to do with creating western civilization? The liberals on this thread keep bringing up stuff NOT associated with the op and say but see they existed....

Actually, if you go to the article, Breitbart linked to a more comprehensive article. The group isn't talking about just "Western Civilization" - it wants all required readings and courses to have a diversity of authors:

With that, “no course or program of study should have a view limited to white, western, and/or male voices. We demand that people who are of Color, Indigenous, Black, queer, or not male are represented in the authorship of at least half course and major required readings,” the demand states.​

It's unrealistic, but it isn't in and of itself racist.

I can't wait until those of you with authoritarian racialist viewpoints are able to rework the 19th CENTURY European Literature courses according to your quota system.

How is it "authoritarian"? The students are typical students - passionate about what they believe even if they don't get the ramifications totally. But they have a point, broadening the scope of writers students are exposed to. THAT is not actually a bad thing and should be an ongoing goal of eduction imo. I don't see it as authoritarian.

Making racist demands is inherently authoritarian and often times stupid as my example reveals.

So how exactly is it racist? The students are demanding essentially, that courses (in general) include authors of a broader variety of view point. Right or wrong - that is the basic premise. They are saying that there should be fewer white male authors (who seem to represent the majority texts) and more of others.

Is that in itself racist?

My son is taking 20th century Japanese literature. should the likes of Kawabata or Oe be removed simply because students are demanding they be removed in favor of Black authors? It's madness.

Well, as I pointed out -merit must be respected and authors in a course should be chosen for their expertise, so I don't disagree with you there. But I still say - is it racist? Or just misguided? Racist is thrown around all too readily.

The statement is that NO course should be allowed that are not given an arbitrary racial quota. In many cases, that is utterly unreasonable, and to comply would undermine the very purpose of education.

I missed that in the article.

The best idea should always win. The best writing should always be favored. The best science should always prevail. The color blind approach is the approach that is not racist. Making everything about race simply because practitioners of authoritarian politics demands it is entirely racist.

I actually AGREE with what I bolded. BUT - what if it ISN'T color blind to begin with? Is there a valid point to be made?

 

[Coyote]

How is it "authoritarian"? The students are typical students - passionate about what they believe even if they don't get the ramifications totally. But they have a point, broadening the scope of writers students are exposed to. THAT is not actually a bad thing and should be an ongoing goal of eduction imo. I don't see it as authoritarian.

This is just such lily white liberalism...back door book banning isn't authoritarian but instead passionate? and the books being removed based on the skin color of the author is not racist?...pretzel logic and tortured truth are the DNA of white liberal thinking...this is why those who blame minorities for Americas problems need to take a good hard look at who is really behind all of this and the lame incite-ful propaganda in your post is proof of that.

What books are being banned?

 

[Frankeneinstein]

What books are being banned?

and once again we must untangle the pretzel logic and tortured truth of left wing-ahem- thought:
I'm sure you meant to ask "what books are being banned through the back door" as that was my claim and not the bogus claim above...
...and the books I was referring to were the ones by white authors, you know, the ones being removed that enflamed the "passions" of hungry young minds eager to learn from books based on skin color, the ones "not being banned just removed" to make room for a more PC friendly education without all those pesky books in the way[hence the term backdoor]...
...those books

 

[Coyote]

What books are being banned?

and once again we must untangle the pretzel logic and tortured truth of left wing-ahem- thought:
I'm sure you meant to ask "what books are being banned through the back door" as that was my claim and not the bogus claim above...
...and the books I was referring to were the ones by white authors, you know, the ones being removed that enflamed the "passions" of hungry young minds eager to learn from books based on skin color, the ones "not being banned just removed" to make room for a more PC friendly education without all those pesky books in the way[hence the term backdoor]...
...those books

Well I'm really more of a direct kind of discusser. So no books are actually banned.

Here is the next question. If you can't decide to replace some books with others - then how do you make room for new authors or other points of view?

 

[Frankeneinstein]

Well I'm really more of a direct kind of discusser. So no books are actually banned.

just "removed" right?, that's how backdoor banning/censorship works...you find it convenient to ignore what I actually said and replace it with what you need it to say

Here is the next question. If you can't decide to replace some books with others - then how do you make room for new authors or other points of view?

by skin color of course

 

[Coyote]

Well I'm really more of a direct kind of discusser. So no books are actually banned.

just "removed", that's how backdoor banning/censorship works...you find it convenient to ignore what I actually said and replace it with what you need it to say

Here is the next question. If you can't decide to replace some books with others - then how do you make room for new authors or other points of view?

by skin color of course

I'm not ignoring anything. I'm asking a question.

The student's demand seems to have been fewer books by white male authors and more books by other types of authors.

So...nothing is being banned.

The real question is this: if you want to have a more well rounded authorship (still respecting merit) - how do you go about it?

Any ideas?

 

[Frankeneinstein]

I'm not ignoring anything. I'm asking a question.

The student's demand seems to have been fewer books by white male authors and more books by other types of authors.

So...nothing is being banned.

just removed right? that is backdoor banning, and since you pretend I am making the claim you are making I have to assume you are well aware the claim you make is bogus

The real question is this: if you want to have a more well rounded authorship (still respecting merit) - how do you go about it?

Any ideas?

Skin color? how would you rate that idea?

 

[Coyote]

I'm not ignoring anything. I'm asking a question.

The student's demand seems to have been fewer books by white male authors and more books by other types of authors.

So...nothing is being banned.

just removed right? that's is backdoor banning, and since you pretend I am making the claim you are making I have to assume you are well aware the claim you make is bogus

The real question is this: if you want to have a more well rounded authorship (still respecting merit) - how do you go about it?

Any ideas?

Skin color? how would you rate that idea?

So...since you didn't actually answer the questions, I'll ask again.

The real question is this: if you want to have a more well rounded authorship (still respecting merit) - how do you go about it?

Any ideas?

 

[Circe]

Skin color? how would you rate that idea?

Yeah --- skin color and don't forget weird sex appearance. I mean, cut to the chase: that's what they want. So important to academic scholarship. Especially nuclear physics and advanced topology.

 

[Frankeneinstein]

So...since you didn't actually answer the questions, I'll ask again.

The real question is this: if you want to have a more well rounded authorship (still respecting merit) - how do you go about it?

Any ideas?

by skin color? not sure why my previous post did not answer your question?...or is that the problem? it not only answered your question but pointed out the folly of your argument and you are now forced to pretend I am not answering you at all?, now, how do you rate my idea?

 

[Coyote]

So...since you didn't actually answer the questions, I'll ask again.

The real question is this: if you want to have a more well rounded authorship (still respecting merit) - how do you go about it?

Any ideas?

by skin color? not sure why my previous post did not answer your question?...or is that the problem? it not only answered your question but pointed out the folly of your argument and you are now forced to pretend I am not answering you at all?, now, how do you rate my idea?

Your idea doesn't seem to answer the question since skin color is not the only criteria.

If you want to add a more diverse veiw point in text book selection and there is a finite amount of textbooks/reading time etc - how do you go about it? Do you stick to the status quo? Do you subtract some and add some?

 

[Frankeneinstein]

Your idea doesn't seem to answer the question since skin color is not the only criteria.

My answer does answer the question, you asked what I would do and that is what I would do, you realize now the folly of your claim which is why you can but wont rate the answer.

If you want to add a more diverse veiw point in text book selection and there is a finite amount of textbooks/reading time etc - how do you go about it? Do you stick to the status quo? Do you subtract some and add some?

Here is where left wing logic trips itself up...you want to "add a more diverse viewpoint" and skin color does not rate as an answer, hmmmm, it's a conundrum wrapped in an enigma, wrapped in a riddle...
...However, if I wanted to ban books and get away with it I would use the method described in the OP...how would you rate that in terms of getting away with it? keep in mind the race card is in the deck.

 

[OldLady]

Spin it any way you like, Jim. I'm just telling you the reality of the situation. Like I said, Notre Dame is way behind the times.
The only reason they need to cut out some of the white guys is that even Notre Dame English majors can only read so many novels in a semester. Expanding the canon to include other perspectives and points of view is a GOOD thing. It's really sad that it scares anyone.

Expanding is fine, excluding is another thing

No one is excluding.

Admittedly I didn't read all of the article, but seems to me they want to limit some of the articles to include lesser articles that were written by minorities, that is excluding.

Again, even an English major can read only so much in a semester.
Who says the articles written by the minorities are "lesser?" This is where value judgments come into play and why the canon was the exclusive property of white men for hundreds of years. To be fair, there weren't many challenges because it was pretty much unheard of for a woman to be published, let alone some black dude.
It is good to have different perspectives and to read about different cultures and places. It's part of what makes reading interesting. If that means I miss out in one class on Yeats in order to read Elizabeth Barrett Browning, is that so horrible? The alarm is all nonsense.

Sorry, but what you say is nonsense.
They want to cut the documents written by whites, and expand minority articles to be 50/50.
That is ludicrous. There are just not that many minority written to even begin to reach that number.

In what courses, I wonder. I read a half/half of southern writers that was pretty interesting. White/black perspectives. For Brit Lit though, they're going to have one hell of a tough time.

 

[OldLady]

Also the other problem with this thread is the article is about Western Civilization NOT western Literature. How many women and minorities had anything to do with creating western civilization? The liberals on this thread keep bringing up stuff NOT associated with the op and say but see they existed....

"How many women and minorities had anything to do with creating western civilization?"
Are you serious? Let's start with, they were the MOTHERS of all those damned white men you seem to think did everything alone.

 

[OldLady]

Expanding is fine, excluding is another thing

No one is excluding.

What does 'remove white men' sound like to you; inclusion?

How does a serious thinking person racially categorize ideas by race or gender?

It's about perspective, Jim. There's nothing else to say about it.

 

[OldLady]

I laugh when something as mainstream as diversifying the canon is held up as "racist" or "radical." The literary canon has been expanded to include many voices and perspectives, and it is a very interesting read.

I dont know how you can miss the racism in saying remove books by white men.

Student activists at the University of Notre Dame are calling for the removal of white authors from the university curriculum to “decolonize” the university. According to the students, “diversifying the canon helps eliminate the violence of only privileging white scholarship.”

According to a report by The College Fix, a student activist group at the University of Notre Dame called “End Hate at ND” is demanding that the university drastically rewrite course curriculum because they believe it currently features too many works by white authors.
​

Your reflexive defense of everything Woketard is interesting though.

Spin it any way you like, Jim. I'm just telling you the reality of the situation. Like I said, Notre Dame is way behind the times.
The only reason they need to cut out some of the white guys is that even Notre Dame English majors can only read so many novels in a semester. Expanding the canon to include other perspectives and points of view is a GOOD thing. It's really sad that it scares anyone.

Expanding is fine, excluding is another thing

No one is excluding.

Another person that did NOT read the linked article, yes in fact the protesters DEMANDED the REMOVAL of authors.

I don't know what article you all are reading; I read the one linked in the OP. And I stand by what I said until you provide me with a more in depth article (preferably not by the mouthbreathers).