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so in your mind we agreed to a total troop withdrawal "with the understanding" that we would later be able to negotiate to keep some of our troops in the country.yes, he did. he negotiated the status of forces agreement that required us to leave when we did.so why didn't he negotiate a status of forces agreement when he had the leverage?
That's a fair question. Maybe that couldn't be done before a certain timeline?
We know Obama didn't do it, but did Bush have the chance prior? Anyone know?
There are no forces, therefore he did not negotiate. Use your head.
you should take your own advice. our forces had to leave because they would not enter into a stay of forces agreement extension. so we had to leave on the date negotiated by baby bush.
I hope that helps.
No we didn't haft to leave genius...When Bush's agreement expired, we were supposed to negotiate a final status of forces agreement. The prior was an interim agreement. Obama couldn't even do that. He wanted out. He sends that moron Biden to help screw it up
When Bush spoke of leaving Iraq it was with the understanding that a force of Americans would remain to maintain the stability of the country.
With the understanding with whom?
Himself?
Iraqis never had that understanding.
It looks like you are flailing about trying to develop a myth that absolves Bush of his failure in Iraq in order to pin the blame for Bush's failures on Obama.?
But your statement about Bush's understanding makes no sense.
You mean SOFA of course. They set a timetable calling for most U.S. troops to leave Iraqi towns and cities by June 30, 2009, with about 50,000 troops left in place until the final withdrawal of all U.S. military forces by Dec. 31, 2011President Bush warned that if we pulled out of Iraq too soon, it would be dangerous for Iraq, the region and the United States; it would mean surrendering the future of Iraq to al Qaeda
And by 'too soon', you mean according to the time table that Bush negotiated with the Iraqi government?
so when we had a binding agreement with iraq to remove all of our troops by 2012, and an iraqi government unwilling to renegotiate the terms of that agreement without placing our troops under iraqi jurisdiction, what would you have proposed the president do? ignore the agreement signed with a sovereign governement? keep our troops there against the will of iraq and in violation of the law?When Bush spoke of leaving Iraq it was with the understanding that a force of Americans would remain to maintain the stability of the country.
With the understanding with whom?
Himself?
Iraqis never had that understanding.
It looks like you are flailing about trying to develop a myth that absolves Bush of his failure in Iraq in order to pin the blame for Bush's failures on Obama.?
But your statement about Bush's understanding makes no sense.
You know what's laughable? How this board's progressive wing is bending over backwards to absolve Barack Obama of any and all responsibility for the success of ISIS. It wasn't George W. Bush who pulled all of our troops out of Iraq prematurely...that was Barry! He did so despite warnings that doing so might destabilize the country. He's doing the same thing in Afghanistan even though he's been warned that doing so will destabilize THAT country!
Barack Obama wanted to go down in history as the President who "ended" the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. He's based his decisions to withdraw our troops last year on his anticipated "legacy" rather than the reality on the ground. He chose to ignore the growing threat of ISIS in Syria...not because he didn't have intelligence reports about them...oh, no...he ignored them because they didn't fit his own personal vision of how his Presidency should be remembered. He was going to the guy who ENDED wars! That was going to be how he was remembered in the history books! But how do you stop a war when your opponent isn't close to being defeated? Barry did it by declaring victory, patting himself on the back and ignoring ISIS. He didn't even try to get a Stay of Forces Agreement signed because he didn't want US troops in Iraq because if they are then he's not the guy who stopped the war in Iraq!
no, it isn't. you're an idiot.Because Obama and Kerry are inept.
Obama was not President in 2008 when Maliki forced you wimpy whipped Bush into signing an agreement that said all US troops needed to get gone by a set timeline and fixed date.
Obama had nothing absolutely nothing to do with what those two buffoon leaders did in 2007 and 2008.
There was no agreement that said all US troops would be out by a certain date. The SOFA signed by the Bush administration provided for a residual force. I know that breaks your little heart, but that is a fact.
Perhaps you forget that during the campaign Obama said that he planned on removing all combat forces from Iraq? Lo and behold, that became reality, and now when the idiocy blows up in his face, all the left wing dumbasses want to find a way to blame it all on Bush.
When do you get to take the blinders off and realize your messiah is just another left wing dumbass that hasn't a clue about how the real world works?
if it were a fact you could provide evidence. multiple posters here have posted the actual agreement and made it clear that there was no agreement for residual forces and that in fact all of our troops had to be gone by 2012.
can you quote the portion of the agreement that claims otherwise?
i guess what i'm saying is put up or shut up.
"All United States Forces shall withdraw from all Iraqi territory no later than December 31, 2011. "
http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/122074.pdf
"United States Forces" means the entity comprising the members of the United States Armed Forces, their associated civilian component and all property, equipment and materials of th3e United States Armed Forces present in Iraq."
http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/122074.pdf
so when we had a binding agreement with iraq to remove all of our troops by 2012, and an iraqi government unwilling to renegotiate the terms of that agreement without placing our troops under iraqi jurisdiction, what would you have proposed the president do? ignore the agreement signed with a sovereign governement? keep our troops there against the will of iraq and in violation of the law?
Of course dumbfuck liberals are going to lie for Obama and blame Bush.
Bush predicted "going back into Iraq" if we didn't properly secure Iraq.
Bush gave Obama a secure Iraq then Obama and Biden went around taking credit for Iraq and told everyone we could pull out without any problems....
they imagine that obama could have just waved a wand and the iraqi government would suddenly decide they wanted us there.so when we had a binding agreement with iraq to remove all of our troops by 2012, and an iraqi government unwilling to renegotiate the terms of that agreement without placing our troops under iraqi jurisdiction, what would you have proposed the president do? ignore the agreement signed with a sovereign governement? keep our troops there against the will of iraq and in violation of the law?
That's exactly what many of them are proposing.
And by 'lie for Obama' you mean quote the SOFA agreement negotiated by Bush?
i'm sure you have evidence for your claims and can provide it.Shitstain....Bush handed over the SOFA negotiations to Obama. Obama fucked them up and didn't get a deal because he didn't want to stay in Iraq and he didn't like the leaders of Iraq.
Obama never wanted to stay in Iraq, he just blamed Iraq for no deal. Obama like you is too stupid to understand leaving Iraq with terrorists on the border would cause the mess we have today.
We have 30,000 troops in South Korea because letting North Korea start a massive war in some vacuum isn't good for the US or the planet as a whole.
And by 'lie for Obama' you mean quote the SOFA agreement negotiated by Bush?
i'm sure you have evidence for your claims and can provide it.
oh i see. but you aren't able to post any proof that the iraqi government was willing to negotiate, and that Obama "didn't like" the Iraqi leaders.Dumbfuck....Obama campaigned on pulling out before taking office and bragged about doing it when in office.
He bragged about "No US troops left in Iraq" to stupid fucks like you but it seems you are too stupid to even know what he said.
i'm sure you have evidence for your claims and can provide it.
oh i see. but you aren't able to post any proof that the iraqi government was willing to negotiate, and that Obama "didn't like" the Iraqi leaders.
it would have been easier just to say "no, i don't have that proof. it is an unfounded opinion."Iraq still had US contractors in Iraq supporting their military up until the ISIS mess. Oh, but you think they wouldn't want US military there to help them because you're a stupid fuck.
As for Obama's problems with other world leaders...that is common news. He has no personal skills, he is a fucking liar that reads a teleprompter.
Again shitstain.....you can't explain how Obama went around bragging about getting out of Iraq and how that makes Bush responsible for today.
oh i see. but you aren't able to post any proof that the iraqi government was willing to negotiate, and that Obama "didn't like" the Iraqi leaders.
so when we had a binding agreement with iraq to remove all of our troops by 2012, and an iraqi government unwilling to renegotiate the terms of that agreement without placing our troops under iraqi jurisdiction, what would you have proposed the president do? ignore the agreement signed with a sovereign governement? keep our troops there against the will of iraq and in violation of the law?When Bush spoke of leaving Iraq it was with the understanding that a force of Americans would remain to maintain the stability of the country.
With the understanding with whom?
Himself?
Iraqis never had that understanding.
It looks like you are flailing about trying to develop a myth that absolves Bush of his failure in Iraq in order to pin the blame for Bush's failures on Obama.?
But your statement about Bush's understanding makes no sense.
You know what's laughable? How this board's progressive wing is bending over backwards to absolve Barack Obama of any and all responsibility for the success of ISIS. It wasn't George W. Bush who pulled all of our troops out of Iraq prematurely...that was Barry! He did so despite warnings that doing so might destabilize the country. He's doing the same thing in Afghanistan even though he's been warned that doing so will destabilize THAT country!
Barack Obama wanted to go down in history as the President who "ended" the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. He's based his decisions to withdraw our troops last year on his anticipated "legacy" rather than the reality on the ground. He chose to ignore the growing threat of ISIS in Syria...not because he didn't have intelligence reports about them...oh, no...he ignored them because they didn't fit his own personal vision of how his Presidency should be remembered. He was going to the guy who ENDED wars! That was going to be how he was remembered in the history books! But how do you stop a war when your opponent isn't close to being defeated? Barry did it by declaring victory, patting himself on the back and ignoring ISIS. He didn't even try to get a Stay of Forces Agreement signed because he didn't want US troops in Iraq because if they are then he's not the guy who stopped the war in Iraq!
what was the scenario you envision in which the agreement to remove the troops could be ignored?
quote it.In the agreement that Bush signed in 2008 there was a provision that either of the parties could withdraw from it with a years notice. Barry wasn't locked into something that he couldn't have renegotiated. That was HIS choice.
it would have been easier just to say "no, i don't have that proof. it is an unfounded opinion."
and i don't disagree that obama wanted out of iraq. no doubt. of course, given the binding agreement and the unwillingness of the iraqi government to renegotiate it i fail to see how his wants really matter.
again, what our president wanted or didn't want is immaterial, since Iraq was unwilling to negotiate without gaining jurisdiction over our troops.Explain away Obama bragging about getting out of Iraq and claiming he made it safe to make the move.....
A shitstain like you will claim that isn't proof Obama wanted out of Iraq and he didn't claim Iraq was safe and secure when we left town.
You're a troll get lost. You don't add anything to this board but ignoring reality and troll posts.
it would have been easier just to say "no, i don't have that proof. it is an unfounded opinion."
and i don't disagree that obama wanted out of iraq. no doubt. of course, given the binding agreement and the unwillingness of the iraqi government to renegotiate it i fail to see how his wants really matter.
Shitstain....Bush handed over the SOFA negotiations to Obama. Obama fucked them up and didn't get a deal because he didn't want to stay in Iraq and he didn't like the leaders of Iraq.
"All United States Forces shall withdraw from all Iraqi territory no later than December 31, 2011. "
http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/122074.pdf
"United States Forces" means the entity comprising the members of the United States Armed Forces, their associated civilian component and all property, equipment and materials of th3e United States Armed Forces present in Iraq."
http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/122074.pdf
