Supreme court rules..prayer at public meetings not a constitutional violation.

[RandallFlagg]

We are in a world of hurt when four members of the supreme court side with the opinion of a former justice who was a former KKK member. Justice Hugo Black turned the Constitution on it's ear when he created the modern version of "separation of church/state" without of shred of Constitutional evidence to support his bigoted opinion. The 1st Amendment prevents the "state" from interfering in the lawful expression of religion. It doesn't give the "state" the right to prevent the lawful expression of religious freedom. The freaking hypocrites in government freely expressed their religious freedom with an invocation by a government employed chaplain and they erected a government sponsored Christmas tree for all the world to see while they prevented ordinary Americans from enjoying the same freedoms.

THANK YOU!! Someone FINALLY gets it. "Separation of Church and State" means one thing and one thing ONLY. The GOVERNMENT can NOT endorse nor can it organize ANY "state religion" - Nor can it deny the free expression of religion ANYWHERE.
Those lard asses in DC open each session with a prayer - an OPEN and PUBLIC prayer. The 10 commandants are displayed behind the SCOTUS and Moses is prominently featured on the facade of the building.

This country was founded on FREEDOM OF RELIGION - something that the English were not allowed to have in England.

What has happened in this country are LAWYERS. Lawyers who bend and twist and coerce and destroy.

It's like that sleaze bag Clinton said - "Well, it depends on what the definition of "is" is". Lawyers bend. They distort and ultimately, they destroy.

 

[RandallFlagg]

Child abuse is terrible, whether by atheists or by priests. I agree that organized rings of pedophiliacs include secret groups, and I well imagine that includes secret groups of atheist child abusers as well.

How about the group that venerates and idolizes a known teen predator? Would that also be "terrible"? Just curious where you draw the line... Weird that Kennedy was part of the assenting Justices.

You know that you and I do not support child abuse of any kind.

Your concern is with LGBT while not looking at other predator groupings of heteroes.

Link?

 

[bendog]

Whether or not he got it right, Black encountered a society were Jehovas' Witnesses couldn't say the Oath, hindus and muslims were beginning their immigrations, and native americans were beginning to reassert their traditional beliefs. The question was, and is, who gets to say the prayer or put up the statue.

Personally, were it up to me, I'd raffle off free of charge the right to say one prayer per meeting, and if one group got to put up a statue at their own expense, more the merrier.

 

[hazlnut]

Told ya so:

"
The court, in a 5-to-4 ruling today, said those prayers don't violate the Constitution -- even if they routinely emphasize Christianity -- as long as there's no effort to proselytize or to denigrate non-Christians. Justice Anthony Kennedy said the prayers are ceremonial, and in keeping with the nation's traditions. He wrote that they are designed to "acknowledge religious leaders and the institutions they represent," and not to "exclude or coerce nonbelievers."

A sad day for the anti-Christian fascists indeed.

High court ruling favors prayer at council meeting - WTOP.com

So, you have no problem with this prayer:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kScrL8m1qMs]How to Pray in Islam - How to Make Salaat - YouTube[/ame]

 

[hazlnut]

Okay, Folks, time for prayer. We're going to mix it up a bit today -- please refer to the prayer cards handed out before the meeting:

Allahu Akbar, Allahu Akbar,
Allahu Akbar, Allahu Akbar.
"Allah is the Greatest" (repeated four times).
Ashhadu al la ilaha illa-llah.
Ashhadu al la ilaha illa-Ilah.
"I bear witness that nothing deserves to be worshipped except Allah (repeated twice).

Ashhadu anna Muhammadar Rasulu-Ilah,
Ashhadu anna Muhammadar Rasulu-Ilah.
"I bear witness that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah" (repeated twice).

Hayya 'ala-s-sala,
Hayya 'ala-s-sala.
"Come to prayer" (repeated twice, turning the face to the right).

Hayya 'ala-l-falah,
Hayya 'ala-I-falah.
"Come to success" (repeated twice, turning the face to the left).

Allahu Akbar,
Allahu Akbar.
"Allah is the Greatest" (repeated twice).

La illaha illa-llah.
"Nothing deserves to be worshipped except Allah".

 

[TemplarKormac]

Funny, people judging someone on whether or not they're a good Christian. What makes other people here think they'd be better ones? I find it funny. Very funny. Try being a Christian before passing judgement.

 

[IlarMeilyr]

The majority (i.e., not the 4 usual suspect whack-a-doo liberal justices) got it right.

That prayer (like the ceremonial prayers to start sessions of Congress) does NOT mandate that anybody be a believer, it does not mandate any official religion nor does it prohibit anybody's free exercise of their own religions (or their own non-religious inclinations).

Clearly, it does not violate the First Amendment religion clauses, therefore.

It doesn't violate anything, because it doesn't really mean anything. Congrats, you just made an invocation to the Eternal Being into a preview before the movie starts. Time to get that popcorn before the real deal begins but oddly enough, when I read the Bible, God seems to believe that he is the real deal? Good thing the court knows better eh?

Whether it means anything or not is fully beside ANY rational point, of course.

The only VALID point is that the First Amendment prohibits not the mention of God or any "god," but the establishment of religion.

If we have "In God We Trust" as our national motto (it is one of our two national mottoes, in fact), that phrase does not prohibit me from the free exercise of my own religious beliefs (or non beliefs) nor does it require me to adapt anybody else's religion.

In short, it violates neither component of the religion clause of the First Amendment.

So, too, the "prayer" at the start of Congress of a town meeting in Greece, New York neither compels me to accept any particular religion nor does it prohibit me from the free exercise of my own religion or non-religion.

First Amendment fully intact, your hostility to religion notwithstanding.

 

[JakeStarkey]

How about the group that venerates and idolizes a known teen predator? Would that also be "terrible"? Just curious where you draw the line... Weird that Kennedy was part of the assenting Justices.

You know that you and I do not support child abuse of any kind.

Your concern is with LGBT while not looking at other predator groupings of heteroes.

Link?

Randall, you are not part of Sil's and my conversation. She knows exactly where are the links. Run along.

 

[TemplarKormac]

You know that you and I do not support child abuse of any kind.

Your concern is with LGBT while not looking at other predator groupings of heteroes.

Link?

Randall, you are not part of Sil's and my conversation. She knows exactly where are the links. Run along.

No. You are being lazy and not posting links, or you have none. Post the links, Jake.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Link?

Randall, you are not part of Sil's and my conversation. She knows exactly where are the links. Run along.

No. You are being lazy and not posting links, or you have none. Post the links, Jake.

Go back and read the entire thread, if you are interested.

You don't have a "just once for me" card.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

The majority (i.e., not the 4 usual suspect whack-a-doo liberal justices) got it right.

That prayer (like the ceremonial prayers to start sessions of Congress) does NOT mandate that anybody be a believer, it does not mandate any official religion nor does it prohibit anybody's free exercise of their own religions (or their own non-religious inclinations).

Clearly, it does not violate the First Amendment religion clauses, therefore.

It doesn't violate anything, because it doesn't really mean anything. Congrats, you just made an invocation to the Eternal Being into a preview before the movie starts. Time to get that popcorn before the real deal begins but oddly enough, when I read the Bible, God seems to believe that he is the real deal? Good thing the court knows better eh?

Whether it means anything or not is fully beside ANY rational point, of course.

The only VALID point is that the First Amendment prohibits not the mention of God or any "god," but the establishment of religion.

If we have "In God We Trust" as our national motto (it is one of our two national mottoes, in fact), that phrase does not prohibit me from the free exercise of my own religious beliefs (or non beliefs) nor does it require me to adapt anybody else's religion.

In short, it violates neither component of the religion clause of the First Amendment.

So, too, the "prayer" at the start of Congress of a town meeting in Greece, New York neither compels me to accept any particular religion nor does it prohibit me from the free exercise of my own religion or non-religion.

First Amendment fully intact, your hostility to religion notwithstanding.

If it actually meant something, the court would have said you couldn't do it. In this case they said it doesn't mean anything really, so carry on.

 

[Spoonman]

Told ya so:

"
The court, in a 5-to-4 ruling today, said those prayers don't violate the Constitution -- even if they routinely emphasize Christianity -- as long as there's no effort to proselytize or to denigrate non-Christians. Justice Anthony Kennedy said the prayers are ceremonial, and in keeping with the nation's traditions. He wrote that they are designed to "acknowledge religious leaders and the institutions they represent," and not to "exclude or coerce nonbelievers."

A sad day for the anti-Christian fascists indeed.

High court ruling favors prayer at council meeting - WTOP.com

Back in the "dark ages" when I was in school, we said the Pledge every day and the Lord's Prayer every day.

Never once saw it hurt anyone. But then again, schools were decent back then - we led the world in education.

Ooooops....so much for that.


Oh, and by the way - they aren't "anti-Christian fascists"

They are "anti-Christian Nazis"......just for the record.

I was in school during those days too Randall. somehow we all came out with a good education. students who didn't chose a college education had options in learning a trade. schools better prepared kids. all kids, not just college bound. no one was shooting up schools and we had fewer gun restrictions. heck, I even remember bringing toy guns to school and it didn't result in a lock down or expulsion. by eliminating prayer and the pledge we've catered to the whims of a few while penalizing the majority.

 

[Spoonman]

Told ya so:

"
The court, in a 5-to-4 ruling today, said those prayers don't violate the Constitution -- even if they routinely emphasize Christianity -- as long as there's no effort to proselytize or to denigrate non-Christians. Justice Anthony Kennedy said the prayers are ceremonial, and in keeping with the nation's traditions. He wrote that they are designed to "acknowledge religious leaders and the institutions they represent," and not to "exclude or coerce nonbelievers."

A sad day for the anti-Christian fascists indeed.

High court ruling favors prayer at council meeting - WTOP.com

So, you have no problem with this prayer:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kScrL8m1qMs]How to Pray in Islam - How to Make Salaat - YouTube[/ame]

none at all. now move along

 

[regent]

It's sort of ironic that the framers when voting to have prayer open each meeting at the Constitution Convention voted, No.

 

[The T]

It's sort of ironic that the framers when voting to have prayer open each meeting at the Constitution Convention voted, No.

But what do they do NOW...and why do they fund a Chaplain? Hmm?

 

[The T]

Funny, people judging someone on whether or not they're a good Christian. What makes other people here think they'd be better ones? I find it funny. Very funny. Try being a Christian before passing judgement.

And isn't it funny many of the left whom profess to NOT believe in God or Jesus will lecture those of us whom do believe HOW we should exercise our religion...or NOT?

Boggles the mind.

 

[RandallFlagg]

Funny, people judging someone on whether or not they're a good Christian. What makes other people here think they'd be better ones? I find it funny. Very funny. Try being a Christian before passing judgement.

And isn't it funny many of the left whom profess to NOT believe in Gos or Jesus will lecture those of us whom do believe HOW we should exercise our religion...or NOT?

Boggles the mind.

Typical liberal Nazis - "Do as I SAY - Not as I DO"

 

[Steven_R]

I don't believe in the whole Jehovah/Jesus story anymore than I believe in the Zeus/Apollo or Odin/Thor or Ra/Whoever stories.

That said, feel free to believe in whatever religion you want. To steal from Jefferson, it neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.

That said, but don't do it on the taxpayer's dime or time. It's all I ask.

And even though it means nothing to me, I still say "bless you" when someone sneezes and I always say "Merry Christmas" and "Happy Easter" instead of "Happy Holidays" just because I know it makes some people happy.

 

[RandallFlagg]

You know that you and I do not support child abuse of any kind.

Your concern is with LGBT while not looking at other predator groupings of heteroes.

Link?

Randall, you are not part of Sil's and my conversation. She knows exactly where are the links. Run along.

C'Mon big shot! You claim that you "do not support child abuse.."

Prove it. You demand proof from everyone else who makes a declarative statement, now YOU do the same.

 

[RandallFlagg]

I don't believe in the whole Jehovah/Jesus story anymore than I believe in the Zeus/Apollo or Odin/Thor or Ra/Whoever stories.

That said, feel free to believe in whatever religion you want. To steal from Jefferson, it neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.

That said, but don't do it on the taxpayer's dime or time. It's all I ask.

And even though it means nothing to me, I still say "bless you" when someone sneezes and I always say "Merry Christmas" and "Happy Easter" instead of "Happy Holidays" just because I know it makes some people happy.

How does praying (whether it be in public or in private) cause any concern among the taxpayers? Would the 15 seconds it takes to say the Lords Prayer REALLY do THAT much damage? Just curious.....