Switzerland issues every adult a gun and trains them how to use it: Switzerland has lowest gun-relat

[Juan de Fuca]

I made my point and I do not care about more gun law. I care that we eliminate the cause of gun violence, period. We need to address the violence and all of the other problems disappear. If you are a gun owner of 30 years and have abided by the laws you get a pass. If you test for a violent disposition with less experience you lose your guns and no one should have an issue with that. If you are a gun owner who knows that they will test positive then you have an opportunity before that time come to get help. It doesn't have to be abusive but it does have to address the problem.

So....you ignore the fact that your "test" for violent tendencies has already failed.

If you actually cared about getting rid of gun violence you would focus on single, teenage mothers raising generations of young males without fathers...that is the primary source of gun violence....

I prefer to concentrate on the problem of violence and if that means middle age gun owners or single teenage moms so be it. I do know the problem of men+violence is the problem and that's what needs to be addressed.

again....I have shown how your point and solution are dumb.....and yet you cling to them........

Please...think before you post...

You haven't shown anything and we don't even have a law yet. Violence is the problem and when it is addressed all the other problems go away.

And none of your laws addresses the violence.....you punish people who don't commit crimes or violence with guns...but the actual criminals....you ignore them...

Duh, my proposal addresses men+violence. No one needs to be punished for crimes of violence if you take away the biggest reason they are violent.

 

[2aguy]

There is no way in hell that the NRA would support the US adopting Switzerland's gun laws.

Nutbags should stop trying so hard to justify their stupidity.

No...it is your stupid gun free zones that get people killed......and your focus on normal, law abiding gun owners instead of actual criminals that is causing the gun crime in this country...

Yeah..thought so. You didn't address my point did ya?

Ya fuckin loser.

I'm a law abiding gun owner. You speak as though you know something. You don't.

There is no reason to adopt Switzerlands gun laws asshole.....they are too restrictive on one end and mandate gun ownership on the other....we are a free people, you assholes just don't understand that.

 

[LoneLaugher]

How about we treat every man who wants to buy a gun like every woman who wants to get an abortion — mandatory 48-hr waiting period, parental permission, a note from his doctor proving he understands what he's about to do, a video he has to watch about the effects of gun violence, an ultrasound wand up the ass. Let's close down all but one gun shop in every state and make him travel hundreds of miles, take time off work, and stay overnight in a strange town to get a gun. Make him walk through a gauntlet of people holding photos of loved ones who were shot to death, people who call him a murderer and beg him not to buy a gun.

Owning a gun isn't murdering a human.....murder is an illegal act no matter what you left wingers have pushed through the courts.

And don't forget....we could hold up photos of all the lives saved by guns.........according to bill clinton and his 1990s Department of Justice study on guns used in Self Defense, Americans use guns to stop violent criminal attack and save lives, including many mass shootings....1,500,000 times a year.

Sadly, because the guns actually saved the lives, our photos would not be so gruesome as the dismembered babies........the lives that weren't saved......

What a perverted interpretation of the actual damage that guns really do.

"Gun violence in the United States results in thousands of deaths and injuries annually.[1] According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, in 2013, firearms were used in 84,258 nonfatal injuries (26.65 per 100,000 U.S. citizens) [2] and 11,208 deaths by homicide (3.5 per 100,000),[3] 21,175 by suicide with a firearm,[4] 505 deaths due to accidental discharge of a firearm,[4] and 281 deaths due to firearms-use with "undetermined intent"[5] for a total of 33,169 deaths related to firearms (excluding firearm deaths due to legal intervention). 1.3% of all deaths in the country were related to firearms."

Here is actual perspective on gun use in the United States.........with actual links....

Yes....let's look at the truth...

In 2013 there were over 320,000,000 million guns in private hands, in 2015...there were 357,000,000 million guns in private hands...

Accidental gun deaths:

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr64/nvsr64_02.pdf


Accidental gun deaths 2014......586

Accidental gun deaths over time....

Then by year accidental gun deaths going down according to CDC final statistics table 10 from 2010-2013...

2010...606
2011...591
2012...548
2013...505
2014...586 (37 million new guns in private hands, up from 320 million in 2013....making the new total 357 million guns)


Accidental gun deaths of children under 14 in 2013 69...in a country with 74.2 million children in 2010...

Accidental gun deaths of children under 14 in 2014....48


-------------------


Gun suicide vs. non gun suicide:

2013:

Gun Suicide: 21,175

Non gun suicide: 19,974

2014:

Gun suicide in 2014..... 21,334 (WISQARS Leading Causes of Death Reports)

non gun suicide in 2014...21,359 (WISQARS Leading Causes of Death Reports)

-----------

Gun murder:

Expanded Homicide Data Table 8

From 2014…..and I added 2011……

2006

Expanded Homicide Data Table 8 and

2006 fbi table 8

Murder by firearm….

Federal Bureau of Investigation - Uniform Crime Reports - 2000

gun murder rate 1997 -2000


1997..... 10,729
1998..... 9,257
1999..... 8,480
2000..... 8,493
2001..... 8,719
2002... 9,369
2003.... 9,638
2004..... 9,385
2005.... 10,158
2006.... 10,225
2007 10,129
2008-- 9,528
2009-- 9,199
2010- 8,874
2011-- 8,653
2012-- 8,897
2013-- 8,454
2014-- 8,124

--------

Self defense with a gun:

Self defense with a gun......40 years of actual research...

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....
GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops, military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

*****************************************
If you take the studies from that Kleck cites in his paper, 16 of them....and you only average the ones that exclude military and police shootings..the average becomes 2 million...I use those studies because I have the details on them...and they are still 10 studies (including Kleck's)....

Still pushing the 1,500,000 per year bullshit, huh?

4000 defensive uses of firearms yesterday? 28,000 in the past week? Please link to some of the news stories or police reports.

You idiot. Only an idiot would believe that shit.

 

[2aguy]

So....you ignore the fact that your "test" for violent tendencies has already failed.

If you actually cared about getting rid of gun violence you would focus on single, teenage mothers raising generations of young males without fathers...that is the primary source of gun violence....

I prefer to concentrate on the problem of violence and if that means middle age gun owners or single teenage moms so be it. I do know the problem of men+violence is the problem and that's what needs to be addressed.

again....I have shown how your point and solution are dumb.....and yet you cling to them........

Please...think before you post...

You haven't shown anything and we don't even have a law yet. Violence is the problem and when it is addressed all the other problems go away.

And none of your laws addresses the violence.....you punish people who don't commit crimes or violence with guns...but the actual criminals....you ignore them...

Duh, my proposal addresses men+violence. No one needs to be punished for crimes of violence if you take away the biggest reason they are violent.

Yeah....you are not a thinker......

 

[2aguy]

How about we treat every man who wants to buy a gun like every woman who wants to get an abortion — mandatory 48-hr waiting period, parental permission, a note from his doctor proving he understands what he's about to do, a video he has to watch about the effects of gun violence, an ultrasound wand up the ass. Let's close down all but one gun shop in every state and make him travel hundreds of miles, take time off work, and stay overnight in a strange town to get a gun. Make him walk through a gauntlet of people holding photos of loved ones who were shot to death, people who call him a murderer and beg him not to buy a gun.

Owning a gun isn't murdering a human.....murder is an illegal act no matter what you left wingers have pushed through the courts.

And don't forget....we could hold up photos of all the lives saved by guns.........according to bill clinton and his 1990s Department of Justice study on guns used in Self Defense, Americans use guns to stop violent criminal attack and save lives, including many mass shootings....1,500,000 times a year.

Sadly, because the guns actually saved the lives, our photos would not be so gruesome as the dismembered babies........the lives that weren't saved......

What a perverted interpretation of the actual damage that guns really do.

"Gun violence in the United States results in thousands of deaths and injuries annually.[1] According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, in 2013, firearms were used in 84,258 nonfatal injuries (26.65 per 100,000 U.S. citizens) [2] and 11,208 deaths by homicide (3.5 per 100,000),[3] 21,175 by suicide with a firearm,[4] 505 deaths due to accidental discharge of a firearm,[4] and 281 deaths due to firearms-use with "undetermined intent"[5] for a total of 33,169 deaths related to firearms (excluding firearm deaths due to legal intervention). 1.3% of all deaths in the country were related to firearms."

Here is actual perspective on gun use in the United States.........with actual links....

Yes....let's look at the truth...

In 2013 there were over 320,000,000 million guns in private hands, in 2015...there were 357,000,000 million guns in private hands...

Accidental gun deaths:

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr64/nvsr64_02.pdf


Accidental gun deaths 2014......586

Accidental gun deaths over time....

Then by year accidental gun deaths going down according to CDC final statistics table 10 from 2010-2013...

2010...606
2011...591
2012...548
2013...505
2014...586 (37 million new guns in private hands, up from 320 million in 2013....making the new total 357 million guns)


Accidental gun deaths of children under 14 in 2013 69...in a country with 74.2 million children in 2010...

Accidental gun deaths of children under 14 in 2014....48


-------------------


Gun suicide vs. non gun suicide:

2013:

Gun Suicide: 21,175

Non gun suicide: 19,974

2014:

Gun suicide in 2014..... 21,334 (WISQARS Leading Causes of Death Reports)

non gun suicide in 2014...21,359 (WISQARS Leading Causes of Death Reports)

-----------

Gun murder:

Expanded Homicide Data Table 8

From 2014…..and I added 2011……

2006

Expanded Homicide Data Table 8 and

2006 fbi table 8

Murder by firearm….

Federal Bureau of Investigation - Uniform Crime Reports - 2000

gun murder rate 1997 -2000


1997..... 10,729
1998..... 9,257
1999..... 8,480
2000..... 8,493
2001..... 8,719
2002... 9,369
2003.... 9,638
2004..... 9,385
2005.... 10,158
2006.... 10,225
2007 10,129
2008-- 9,528
2009-- 9,199
2010- 8,874
2011-- 8,653
2012-- 8,897
2013-- 8,454
2014-- 8,124

--------

Self defense with a gun:

Self defense with a gun......40 years of actual research...

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....
GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops, military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

*****************************************
If you take the studies from that Kleck cites in his paper, 16 of them....and you only average the ones that exclude military and police shootings..the average becomes 2 million...I use those studies because I have the details on them...and they are still 10 studies (including Kleck's)....

Still pushing the 1,500,000 per year bullshit, huh?

4000 defensive uses of firearms yesterday? 28,000 in the past week? Please link to some of the news stories or police reports.

You idiot. Only an idiot would believe that shit.

 

[LoneLaugher]

How about we treat every man who wants to buy a gun like every woman who wants to get an abortion — mandatory 48-hr waiting period, parental permission, a note from his doctor proving he understands what he's about to do, a video he has to watch about the effects of gun violence, an ultrasound wand up the ass. Let's close down all but one gun shop in every state and make him travel hundreds of miles, take time off work, and stay overnight in a strange town to get a gun. Make him walk through a gauntlet of people holding photos of loved ones who were shot to death, people who call him a murderer and beg him not to buy a gun.

Owning a gun isn't murdering a human.....murder is an illegal act no matter what you left wingers have pushed through the courts.

And don't forget....we could hold up photos of all the lives saved by guns.........according to bill clinton and his 1990s Department of Justice study on guns used in Self Defense, Americans use guns to stop violent criminal attack and save lives, including many mass shootings....1,500,000 times a year.

Sadly, because the guns actually saved the lives, our photos would not be so gruesome as the dismembered babies........the lives that weren't saved......

What a perverted interpretation of the actual damage that guns really do.

"Gun violence in the United States results in thousands of deaths and injuries annually.[1] According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, in 2013, firearms were used in 84,258 nonfatal injuries (26.65 per 100,000 U.S. citizens) [2] and 11,208 deaths by homicide (3.5 per 100,000),[3] 21,175 by suicide with a firearm,[4] 505 deaths due to accidental discharge of a firearm,[4] and 281 deaths due to firearms-use with "undetermined intent"[5] for a total of 33,169 deaths related to firearms (excluding firearm deaths due to legal intervention). 1.3% of all deaths in the country were related to firearms."

Here is actual perspective on gun use in the United States.........with actual links....

Yes....let's look at the truth...

In 2013 there were over 320,000,000 million guns in private hands, in 2015...there were 357,000,000 million guns in private hands...

Accidental gun deaths:

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr64/nvsr64_02.pdf


Accidental gun deaths 2014......586

Accidental gun deaths over time....

Then by year accidental gun deaths going down according to CDC final statistics table 10 from 2010-2013...

2010...606
2011...591
2012...548
2013...505
2014...586 (37 million new guns in private hands, up from 320 million in 2013....making the new total 357 million guns)


Accidental gun deaths of children under 14 in 2013 69...in a country with 74.2 million children in 2010...

Accidental gun deaths of children under 14 in 2014....48


-------------------


Gun suicide vs. non gun suicide:

2013:

Gun Suicide: 21,175

Non gun suicide: 19,974

2014:

Gun suicide in 2014..... 21,334 (WISQARS Leading Causes of Death Reports)

non gun suicide in 2014...21,359 (WISQARS Leading Causes of Death Reports)

-----------

Gun murder:

Expanded Homicide Data Table 8

From 2014…..and I added 2011……

2006

Expanded Homicide Data Table 8 and

2006 fbi table 8

Murder by firearm….

Federal Bureau of Investigation - Uniform Crime Reports - 2000

gun murder rate 1997 -2000


1997..... 10,729
1998..... 9,257
1999..... 8,480
2000..... 8,493
2001..... 8,719
2002... 9,369
2003.... 9,638
2004..... 9,385
2005.... 10,158
2006.... 10,225
2007 10,129
2008-- 9,528
2009-- 9,199
2010- 8,874
2011-- 8,653
2012-- 8,897
2013-- 8,454
2014-- 8,124

--------

Self defense with a gun:

Self defense with a gun......40 years of actual research...

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....
GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops, military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

*****************************************
If you take the studies from that Kleck cites in his paper, 16 of them....and you only average the ones that exclude military and police shootings..the average becomes 2 million...I use those studies because I have the details on them...and they are still 10 studies (including Kleck's)....

Still pushing the 1,500,000 per year bullshit, huh?

4000 defensive uses of firearms yesterday? 28,000 in the past week? Please link to some of the news stories or police reports.

You idiot. Only an idiot would believe that shit.

Your best post ever!

 

[Juan de Fuca]

I prefer to concentrate on the problem of violence and if that means middle age gun owners or single teenage moms so be it. I do know the problem of men+violence is the problem and that's what needs to be addressed.

again....I have shown how your point and solution are dumb.....and yet you cling to them........

Please...think before you post...

You haven't shown anything and we don't even have a law yet. Violence is the problem and when it is addressed all the other problems go away.

And none of your laws addresses the violence.....you punish people who don't commit crimes or violence with guns...but the actual criminals....you ignore them...

Duh, my proposal addresses men+violence. No one needs to be punished for crimes of violence if you take away the biggest reason they are violent.

Yeah....you are not a thinker......

We've had 1,000 mass shootings since Sandy Hook you aren't much of a thinker either if you haven't done a single thing to solve it.

 

[LoneLaugher]

Yo, 2A. That's it. I've reached my quota for inane gun discussion with you for the week. Better luck next week. Ya one trick phony, ya.

 

[2aguy]

How about we treat every man who wants to buy a gun like every woman who wants to get an abortion — mandatory 48-hr waiting period, parental permission, a note from his doctor proving he understands what he's about to do, a video he has to watch about the effects of gun violence, an ultrasound wand up the ass. Let's close down all but one gun shop in every state and make him travel hundreds of miles, take time off work, and stay overnight in a strange town to get a gun. Make him walk through a gauntlet of people holding photos of loved ones who were shot to death, people who call him a murderer and beg him not to buy a gun.

Owning a gun isn't murdering a human.....murder is an illegal act no matter what you left wingers have pushed through the courts.

And don't forget....we could hold up photos of all the lives saved by guns.........according to bill clinton and his 1990s Department of Justice study on guns used in Self Defense, Americans use guns to stop violent criminal attack and save lives, including many mass shootings....1,500,000 times a year.

Sadly, because the guns actually saved the lives, our photos would not be so gruesome as the dismembered babies........the lives that weren't saved......

What a perverted interpretation of the actual damage that guns really do.

"Gun violence in the United States results in thousands of deaths and injuries annually.[1] According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, in 2013, firearms were used in 84,258 nonfatal injuries (26.65 per 100,000 U.S. citizens) [2] and 11,208 deaths by homicide (3.5 per 100,000),[3] 21,175 by suicide with a firearm,[4] 505 deaths due to accidental discharge of a firearm,[4] and 281 deaths due to firearms-use with "undetermined intent"[5] for a total of 33,169 deaths related to firearms (excluding firearm deaths due to legal intervention). 1.3% of all deaths in the country were related to firearms."

Here is actual perspective on gun use in the United States.........with actual links....

Yes....let's look at the truth...

In 2013 there were over 320,000,000 million guns in private hands, in 2015...there were 357,000,000 million guns in private hands...

Accidental gun deaths:

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr64/nvsr64_02.pdf


Accidental gun deaths 2014......586

Accidental gun deaths over time....

Then by year accidental gun deaths going down according to CDC final statistics table 10 from 2010-2013...

2010...606
2011...591
2012...548
2013...505
2014...586 (37 million new guns in private hands, up from 320 million in 2013....making the new total 357 million guns)


Accidental gun deaths of children under 14 in 2013 69...in a country with 74.2 million children in 2010...

Accidental gun deaths of children under 14 in 2014....48


-------------------


Gun suicide vs. non gun suicide:

2013:

Gun Suicide: 21,175

Non gun suicide: 19,974

2014:

Gun suicide in 2014..... 21,334 (WISQARS Leading Causes of Death Reports)

non gun suicide in 2014...21,359 (WISQARS Leading Causes of Death Reports)

-----------

Gun murder:

Expanded Homicide Data Table 8

From 2014…..and I added 2011……

2006

Expanded Homicide Data Table 8 and

2006 fbi table 8

Murder by firearm….

Federal Bureau of Investigation - Uniform Crime Reports - 2000

gun murder rate 1997 -2000


1997..... 10,729
1998..... 9,257
1999..... 8,480
2000..... 8,493
2001..... 8,719
2002... 9,369
2003.... 9,638
2004..... 9,385
2005.... 10,158
2006.... 10,225
2007 10,129
2008-- 9,528
2009-- 9,199
2010- 8,874
2011-- 8,653
2012-- 8,897
2013-- 8,454
2014-- 8,124

--------

Self defense with a gun:

Self defense with a gun......40 years of actual research...

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....
GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops, military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

*****************************************
If you take the studies from that Kleck cites in his paper, 16 of them....and you only average the ones that exclude military and police shootings..the average becomes 2 million...I use those studies because I have the details on them...and they are still 10 studies (including Kleck's)....

Still pushing the 1,500,000 per year bullshit, huh?

4000 defensive uses of firearms yesterday? 28,000 in the past week? Please link to some of the news stories or police reports.

You idiot. Only an idiot would believe that shit.

Why is it you morons can't understand that it isn't my number....that particular number comes from the Departmemt of Justice study on gun self defense ordered by Bill Clinton to aid his effort at passing more gun control.....they hired two anti gun researchers who put the study together using actual research methodologies with the intent of showing low gun self defense rates....

Instead...they found Americans use guns 1,500,000 times a year......

And the other studies, conducted by both government agencies and private research groups found gun self defense use rates higher and/or in line with the findings of the Dept. of Jistice study........these studies were conducted over a 40 year period....

Here they are again...notice the CDc research by Obama and what they found too...in 2013...

Self defense with a gun......40 years of actual research...

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....
GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops, military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

*****************************************
If you take the studies from that Kleck cites in his paper, 16 of them....and you only average the ones that exclude military and police shootings..the average becomes 2 million...I use those studies because I have the details on them...and they are still 10 studies (including Kleck'

 

[2aguy]

again....I have shown how your point and solution are dumb.....and yet you cling to them........

Please...think before you post...

You haven't shown anything and we don't even have a law yet. Violence is the problem and when it is addressed all the other problems go away.

And none of your laws addresses the violence.....you punish people who don't commit crimes or violence with guns...but the actual criminals....you ignore them...

Duh, my proposal addresses men+violence. No one needs to be punished for crimes of violence if you take away the biggest reason they are violent.

Yeah....you are not a thinker......

We've had 1,000 mass shootings since Sandy Hook you aren't much of a thinker either if you haven't done a single thing to solve it.

Now I know you are a fool.......let me guess...did you go to shooting tracker.com........they lie......

If you look at their alleged mass shootings...by looking at their actual lost and you read what actually happened......they include gang members shooting each other at a party over girlfriends, insults and dice games.....that is not the definition of a mass shooting.......

Mothe Jones has a list of mass shootings going back to 1982......they even lowered the death number to 3...obama's new number..........

Mother Jones is an anti gun, left wing site...they follow the actual official definition....look it up........I would post it for you but I don't have time....

 

[Juan de Fuca]

I know what the definition of a mass shooting is. I could care less what your definition is it isn't anymore accurate than mine. It remains a problem, no matter how you want to color it.

 

[Vandalshandle]

I have a retarded cousin who is 66 years old. He can't drive, but holds down a job corralling grocery carts at Winn-Dixie. He has never committed a crime, and is perfectly sane, so, in spite of his 67 point IQ he has every right to carry a gun. Fortunately for us all, he does not want one.

Does he live alone?

11 F of the 4473 form disagrees with the cousins right to process a firearm

...a form that he does not have to fill out at a gun show, because you and the NRA say that having to prove that one can legally buy a guy infringes on the rights of those who legally can buy a gun.

bs

the form has to be filled out from any and all FFL no matter

where they sell the gun asshole

besides that it is illegal for him to have one

That's odd. My son-in-law and I went to a gun show in Louisiana 7 years ago, and he bought a sniper rifle with nothing but cash in hand. No form, whatsoever. He did the same thing with a transaction on Craigslist for a 1911. In fact, John Hinkley can do the same, and the person who sells him the gun is not even breaking the law, as long as he is not a licensed firearm dealer.

In short, you tried to plow a path around my statement, but got stuck in the ditch for your efforts.

 

[2aguy]

I know what the definition of a mass shooting is. I could care less what your definition is it isn't anymore accurate than mine. It remains a problem, no matter how you want to color it.

No, you obviously don't....

Here you go...the number of mass public shootings according to Mother Jones...rabid, anti gun, left wing news source.....not the NRA...

The list below comes from the old definition of 4 killed to make a shooting a mass shooting...if you now go to the link there are more than listed below...but that is because Mother Jones changed the list from the time I first posted it...and changed to obama's new standard of only 3 dead to make a mass shooting...

I have put obama's updated number in parenthesis..........

we will see....


US Mass Shootings, 1982-2015: Data From Mother Jones' Investigation

2016....3

2015....4 ( by obama's new standard....7)

2014....2 (4)

2013....5

2012....7

2011....3

2010....1

2009....4

2008....3

2007....4

2006....3

2005...2

2004....1

2003...1

2002 not listed so more than likely 0

2001....1

2000....1

1999....5

1998...3

1997....2

1996....1

1995...1

1994...1

1993...4

1992...2

1991...3

1990...1

1989...2

1988....1

1987...1

1986...1

1985... not listed so probably 0

1984...2

1983...not listed so probably 0

1982...1
US Mass Shootings, 1982-2015: Data From Mother Jones' Investigation

US Mass Shootings, 1982-2015: Data From Mother Jones' Investigation



How many deaths on average according to Mother Jones...anti gun, uber left wing Mother Jones.......each year, well less than 73.

2015......37
2014..... 9
2013..... 36
2012..... 72
2011..... 19
2010....9
2009...39
2008...18
2007...54
2006...21
2005...17
2004...5
2003...7
2002...not listed by mother jones
2001...5
2000...7

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr64/nvsr64_02.pdf

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr64/nvsr64_02.pdf


Cars, Accidental deaths 2013......35,369

Poisons...accidental deaths 2013....38,851

Alcohol...accidental deaths 2013...29,001

gravity....accidental falling deaths 2013...30,208
Accidental drowning.....3,391
Accidental exposure to smoke, fire and flames.....2,760

Deaths from mass shootings 2015..... 37

 

[Juan de Fuca]

It really must take someone with a screw loose to refuse to acknowledge that 30,000 people die one way or another from guns, or that 84,000 had non-fatal injuries. We have a problem and no way that you mix up numbers is changing any part of that.

Address the root cause, the common denominator violence and you will see improvement across the board. You will see anti gun people get silent and you will see pro gun people relaxed that no one is coming for their guns.

 

[2aguy]

It really must take someone with a screw loose to refuse to acknowledge that 30,000 people die one way or another from guns, or that 84,000 had non-fatal injuries. We have a problem and no way that you mix up numbers is changing any part of that.

Address the root cause, the common denominator violence and you will see improvement across the board. You will see anti gun people get silent and you will see pro gun people relaxed that no one is coming for their guns.

The gun deaths that can actually be addressed are criminal actions.....and you only affect that by locking up criminals who use guns....

Suicides do not count because like Japan, China, and South Korea, they will just use something besides the gun.....

Our problem is thug culture.....we need to fix that.

 

[Juan de Fuca]

It really must take someone with a screw loose to refuse to acknowledge that 30,000 people die one way or another from guns, or that 84,000 had non-fatal injuries. We have a problem and no way that you mix up numbers is changing any part of that.

Address the root cause, the common denominator violence and you will see improvement across the board. You will see anti gun people get silent and you will see pro gun people relaxed that no one is coming for their guns.

The gun deaths that can actually be addressed are criminal actions.....and you only affect that by locking up criminals who use guns....

Suicides do not count because like Japan, China, and South Korea, they will just use something besides the gun.....

Our problem is thug culture.....we need to fix that.

Fuck that, suicides count as every single death should.

 

[jon_berzerk]

I have a retarded cousin who is 66 years old. He can't drive, but holds down a job corralling grocery carts at Winn-Dixie. He has never committed a crime, and is perfectly sane, so, in spite of his 67 point IQ he has every right to carry a gun. Fortunately for us all, he does not want one.

Does he live alone?

11 F of the 4473 form disagrees with the cousins right to process a firearm

...a form that he does not have to fill out at a gun show, because you and the NRA say that having to prove that one can legally buy a guy infringes on the rights of those who legally can buy a gun.

bs

the form has to be filled out from any and all FFL no matter

where they sell the gun asshole

besides that it is illegal for him to have one

That's odd. My son-in-law and I went to a gun show in Louisiana 7 years ago, and he bought a sniper rifle with nothing but cash in hand. No form, whatsoever. He did the same thing with a transaction on Craigslist for a 1911. In fact, John Hinkley can do the same, and the person who sells him the gun is not even breaking the law, as long as he is not a licensed firearm dealer.

In short, you tried to plow a path around my statement, but got stuck in the ditch for your efforts.

yeah im sure he did --LOL

"sniper rifle" ta boot

what a jackass

--LOL

 

[Vandalshandle]

Does he live alone?

11 F of the 4473 form disagrees with the cousins right to process a firearm

...a form that he does not have to fill out at a gun show, because you and the NRA say that having to prove that one can legally buy a guy infringes on the rights of those who legally can buy a gun.

bs

the form has to be filled out from any and all FFL no matter

where they sell the gun asshole

besides that it is illegal for him to have one

That's odd. My son-in-law and I went to a gun show in Louisiana 7 years ago, and he bought a sniper rifle with nothing but cash in hand. No form, whatsoever. He did the same thing with a transaction on Craigslist for a 1911. In fact, John Hinkley can do the same, and the person who sells him the gun is not even breaking the law, as long as he is not a licensed firearm dealer.

In short, you tried to plow a path around my statement, but got stuck in the ditch for your efforts.

yeah im sure he did --LOL

"sniper rifle" ta boot

what a jackass

--LOL

Well, now, Jon, what would you call a rifle and scope combination that has a kill range that is so far that there is not a single public rifle range in Louisiana that is long enough to sight it?

 

[jon_berzerk]

11 F of the 4473 form disagrees with the cousins right to process a firearm

...a form that he does not have to fill out at a gun show, because you and the NRA say that having to prove that one can legally buy a guy infringes on the rights of those who legally can buy a gun.

bs

the form has to be filled out from any and all FFL no matter

where they sell the gun asshole

besides that it is illegal for him to have one

That's odd. My son-in-law and I went to a gun show in Louisiana 7 years ago, and he bought a sniper rifle with nothing but cash in hand. No form, whatsoever. He did the same thing with a transaction on Craigslist for a 1911. In fact, John Hinkley can do the same, and the person who sells him the gun is not even breaking the law, as long as he is not a licensed firearm dealer.

In short, you tried to plow a path around my statement, but got stuck in the ditch for your efforts.

yeah im sure he did --LOL

"sniper rifle" ta boot

what a jackass

--LOL

Well, now, Jon, what would you call a rifle and scope combination that has a kill range that is so far that there is not a single public rifle range in Louisiana that is long enough to sight it?

a hunting/target rifle asshole

is your son-in-law a shady criminal buying firearms like that

looks like it

 

[Vandalshandle]

...a form that he does not have to fill out at a gun show, because you and the NRA say that having to prove that one can legally buy a guy infringes on the rights of those who legally can buy a gun.

bs

the form has to be filled out from any and all FFL no matter

where they sell the gun asshole

besides that it is illegal for him to have one

That's odd. My son-in-law and I went to a gun show in Louisiana 7 years ago, and he bought a sniper rifle with nothing but cash in hand. No form, whatsoever. He did the same thing with a transaction on Craigslist for a 1911. In fact, John Hinkley can do the same, and the person who sells him the gun is not even breaking the law, as long as he is not a licensed firearm dealer.

In short, you tried to plow a path around my statement, but got stuck in the ditch for your efforts.

yeah im sure he did --LOL

"sniper rifle" ta boot

what a jackass

--LOL

Well, now, Jon, what would you call a rifle and scope combination that has a kill range that is so far that there is not a single public rifle range in Louisiana that is long enough to sight it?

a hunting/target rifle asshole

is your son-in-law a shady criminal buying firearms like that

looks like it

Not to put too fine a point on it, but if his high school had voted on the "senior most likely to become a political assassin", he would have won it hands down.

I can not help but mention that he has absolutely no interest in hunting, but he is keeping the NRA is business single handedly buying their bumper stickers.

Thank god my only relationship with him was that he married my x-wife's daughter.