Syria's Assad Delivers Chilling Warning To Europe And The World...

[Osomir]

starting???

Yes. We've seen numerous escalations in security concerns in those regions. Increased mortar activity, the pulling out of Austrian troops from the Golan Heights, the effect of long term refugee burdens on already burdened countries (like Jordan), the more heavy spread of sectarian violence into Lebanon and cross border attacks, and the emergence of Hezbollah as a fighting force within Syria itself. All major things to be concerned about for both the US and especially Israel in terms of security, and regional stability. Now the dangers have always been there since the outbreak of fighting and before, but they have certainly grown much more intense recently. Couple that with the confirmed reports on gas attacks and it is problematic for us.

Listen closely---- THE REBELS HAVE USED SARIN GAS TOO.

Oh undoubtedly. We've known this for some time, but administrations have certain international legal obligations in that regard. It is supposed to represent a single governing entity, the rebels are not a single entity though, and while it is naive to think that none of our assistance will end up in the hands of those types of rebels, the idea is to directly support the ones that don't utilize said gas, or that aren't affiliated with groups such as Al-Nusra and in doing so, strengthen them so that they would have more power in a post-Assad Syria than say Al -Nusra would.

 

[dilloduck]

At least Bush was nice enough to come up with some explanations for his interventions. Obama doesn't even bother to try.

He stated quite a long time ago that the use of chemical weapons would be a red line, and that has happened and been independently verified by third part sources.

The big issue for me though (and for the Obama Administration I imagine), is the security threats that extended conflict are starting to have. Lebanon is starting to destabilize, security in the Golan Heights is starting to destabilize, large refugee problems are starting to place heavy strains on host countries (like Jordan). I think we just want to see it ended. No outcome is going to be desirable, but the long wait is just making it worse.

?Alawite State? in Syria Not in the Cards - Al-Monitor: the Pulse of the Middle East

A giant religious clusterfuck---and Obama wants us to join in ? Insane

 

[Katzndogz]

obama should never have supported the rebels in the first place. He's been sending support to them for two years. Had he done nothing, Assad would have put the rebels down within weeks, Syria would be stable now and 93,000 people would not have died.

 

[Osomir]

Oh, lordy. Does the simple fact that they are our largest importer of oil mean anything? Or are you that out of touch with reality?

What makes you think it doesn't?

This: Company Level Imports

Largest would be Canada.

U.S. Imports from Canada of Crude Oil and Petroleum Products (Thousand Barrels)

Not Syria.

U.S. Imports from Syria of Crude Oil and Petroleum Products (Thousand Barrels)

Wow. I don't think people have the brain cells to understand. Did you forget about OPEC and the Persian Gulf? Or are you too fucking stupid to understand? .

Holy Moses! Look at the top, genius.

U.S. Crude Oil Imports

OPEC and the Persian Gulf supply over 2.2 million barrels (2,252,606) as compared to little old Canada at 881k barrels (881,383). Empirical research is not your forte.

So then tell us what our Syria policy has to do with the Persian Gulf.

You still haven't answered the initial question: why do you think our Syria policy is influenced solely, or even primarily by issues relating to oil?

 

[Amelia]

He stated quite a long time ago that the use of chemical weapons would be a red line, and that has happened and been independently verified by third part sources.

The big issue for me though (and for the Obama Administration I imagine), is the security threats that extended conflict are starting to have. Lebanon is starting to destabilize, security in the Golan Heights is starting to destabilize, large refugee problems are starting to place heavy strains on host countries (like Jordan). I think we just want to see it ended. No outcome is going to be desirable, but the long wait is just making it worse.

starting???

Yes. We've seen numerous escalations in security concerns in those regions. Increased mortar activity, the pulling out of Austrian troops from the Golan Heights, the effect of long term refugee burdens on already burdened countries (like Jordan), the more heavy spread of sectarian violence into Lebanon and cross border attacks, and the emergence of Hezbollah as a fighting force within Syria itself. All major things to be concerned about for both the US and especially Israel in terms of security, and regional stability. Now the dangers have always been there since the outbreak of fighting and before, but they have certainly grown much more intense recently. Couple that with the confirmed reports on gas attacks and it is problematic for us.

But not problematic to take meaningful action. Just a nothing "too little too late" move which attaches culpability to us without any likelihood of success.

*sigh*

 

[Osomir]

At least Bush was nice enough to come up with some explanations for his interventions. Obama doesn't even bother to try.

He stated quite a long time ago that the use of chemical weapons would be a red line, and that has happened and been independently verified by third part sources.

The big issue for me though (and for the Obama Administration I imagine), is the security threats that extended conflict are starting to have. Lebanon is starting to destabilize, security in the Golan Heights is starting to destabilize, large refugee problems are starting to place heavy strains on host countries (like Jordan). I think we just want to see it ended. No outcome is going to be desirable, but the long wait is just making it worse.

?Alawite State? in Syria Not in the Cards - Al-Monitor: the Pulse of the Middle East

interesting link, but not sure why it was posted? We've long known that Hezbollah and Assad were coordinating with each other. Israel had been keeping a very close eye on it (remember the airstrikes on the Lebanese convoys?). The big concern is the level of new traffic we are seeing.

 

[bendog]

It ain't about oil or opec. Iran and the House of Saud have little in common on Syria. Iraq is bordering on a failed state. Nigeria? Let's not go there.

Assad's a thug, but the rebels verge in wahabism. The question I've had is whehter McCain has totally lost what is left of his mind. Obama clearly doesn't want to touch the place.

 

[Osomir]

obama should never have supported the rebels in the first place. He's been sending support to them for two years. Had he done nothing, Assad would have put the rebels down within weeks, Syria would be stable now and 93,000 people would not have died.

Do you have any supporting evidence of that? That seems like a little bit of an oversimplification to me. even last time tens of thousands died in the 80's. It seemed bound to be larger this time no matter what outside forces jumped in.

 

[TemplarKormac]

This: Company Level Imports

Largest would be Canada.

U.S. Imports from Canada of Crude Oil and Petroleum Products (Thousand Barrels)

Not Syria.

U.S. Imports from Syria of Crude Oil and Petroleum Products (Thousand Barrels)

Wow. I don't think people have the brain cells to understand. Did you forget about OPEC and the Persian Gulf? Or are you too fucking stupid to understand? .

Holy Moses! Look at the top, genius.

U.S. Crude Oil Imports

OPEC and the Persian Gulf supply over 2.2 million barrels (2,252,606) as compared to little old Canada at 881k barrels (881,383). Empirical research is not your forte.

So then tell us what our Syria policy has to do with the Persian Gulf.

You still haven't answered the initial question: why do you think our Syria policy is influenced solely, or even primarily by issues relating to oil?

Uhh, didn't I just explain that to you? Or are you too dense? Explain what other motivating factors there could be for us being in the Middle East period.

 

[Osomir]

Uhh, didn't I just explain that to you?

You did not, no.

Explain what other motivating factors there could be for us being in the Middle East period.

Something about us being a global superpower and the nature of a globalized economy / globalization in general. there is more in the Middle East than oil. As for Syria, I have already commented multiple times on Syria and motivational factors there. Something which you have yet to do.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Yep. We have no clue what we are doing in the Middle East anymore. Our intervention is driven by our insatiable need for oil, not for the real goal of defending freedom, or our interests here at home.

What makes you think our Syria policy has anything to do with oil?

Of course, our foreign policy in the M.E. is determined by oil. What other choice do we have? It's not as if we've invested heavily enough in alternative forms of energy or anything.

If the flow of oil stops, this country ceases to function economically and militarily.

The ONLY reason we need middle east oil is because of dumb ass democratic policies that prevent us from drilling for our own.

 

[bendog]

Surely you don't think that domestic production would equal what we import from despots, and living near the gulf coast, I'd prefer to thoroughly regulate off shore rigs.

 

[dilloduck]

It ain't about oil or opec. Iran and the House of Saud have little in common on Syria. Iraq is bordering on a failed state. Nigeria? Let's not go there.

Assad's a thug, but the rebels verge in wahabism. The question I've had is whehter McCain has totally lost what is left of his mind. Obama clearly doesn't want to touch the place.

WTF? Are you trying to tell us Obama feels the slightest bit of pressure from McCain ?

 

[Avatar4321]

Yep. We have no clue what we are doing in the Middle East anymore. Our intervention is driven by our insatiable need for oil, not for the real goal of defending freedom, or our interests here at home.

Oil? How would intervening in Syria get us oil?

We have more than enough oil in the United States to support us if we needed to.

 

[Katzndogz]

obama should never have supported the rebels in the first place. He's been sending support to them for two years. Had he done nothing, Assad would have put the rebels down within weeks, Syria would be stable now and 93,000 people would not have died.

Do you have any supporting evidence of that? That seems like a little bit of an oversimplification to me. even last time tens of thousands died in the 80's. It seemed bound to be larger this time no matter what outside forces jumped in.

obama has been sending non military aid to Syrian rebels from the beginning and said that Assad must go. We heard that Assad would step down within hours so many times, obama doesn't even try to peddle that whopper any more.

There is no doubt that Assad would have stepped on the rebels big time. Some of them would make it back to their home nations, some would die, and so would their Syrian supporters. Then it would be over. Anyone with half a brain knew the very first day that Putin would not let Assad fall. Russia has a naval base in Syria. There is no way they would let al quaeda or Iran take that over.

It has now turned into a proxy war between the US and Russia. A war that the US is too weak to win.

Good job obama.

 

[asaratis]

When the Middle East breaks into full fledged wars, Obama will likely stand back in awe with his mouth wide open...like a kid at a big fireworks show..

 

[bendog]

It ain't about oil or opec. Iran and the House of Saud have little in common on Syria. Iraq is bordering on a failed state. Nigeria? Let's not go there.

Assad's a thug, but the rebels verge in wahabism. The question I've had is whehter McCain has totally lost what is left of his mind. Obama clearly doesn't want to touch the place.

WTF? Are you trying to tell us Obama feels the slightest bit of pressure from McCain ?

Of course he does. He's got the crazy admiral on Sunday talk shows saying he's weak on terror. And he's got crazies on the other side tellign people Obama is listening to his phones.

The pressue Obama feels is he can't afford to tell people that as bad as Assad is, he may be the least bad alternative. It's about politics and temporary power, and that's all it's about. Other than the fact that al queda might find a Salfi state very hospitable.

 

[Avatar4321]

obama doesn't care about oil. If he thought he could get away with it, he would ban all petroleum products tomorrow. What he does care about is destabilizing the middle east.

Why would Obama in any way want a destabilized Middle East?

If we are involved in a war, it's easier to fundamentally transform the people.

 

[bendog]

When the Middle East breaks into full fledged wars, Obama will likely stand back in awe with his mouth wide open...like a kid at a big fireworks show..

It may be the best we can do. The neocons wanted to shake things up. Mission accomplished. Let's hope Obama doesn't do anymore surges.

 

[Osomir]

obama has been sending non military aid to Syrian rebels from the beginning and said that Assad must go. We heard that Assad would step down within hours so many times, obama doesn't even try to peddle that whopper any more.

It really wasn't something that needed to be "peddled" even from analytical points of view Assad's Administration seemed on the verge of collapse. The insinuation that it was an intentional misleading I feel is inaccurate.

There is no doubt that Assad would have stepped on the rebels big time. Some of them would make it back to their home nations, some would die, and so would their Syrian supporters. Then it would be over. Anyone with half a brain knew the very first day that Putin would not let Assad fall. Russia has a naval base in Syria. There is no way they would let al quaeda or Iran take that over.

And yet Al Qaeda became very effective fighters within Syria even without our help.

It has now turned into a proxy war between the US and Russia. A war that the US is too weak to win.

Once again, I find this to be a rather large oversimplification.