Take the guns first, due process second.

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

Playtime has demonstrated that she should not be part of the process of defining which weapons should be banned. She is clueless.

But, to clear it up, every one of those would be considered "high-velocity" whether chambered in .223 or something else, unless they are specifically NOT high-velocity or maybe "subsonic" cartridges. "High-velocity" can range from 1,900 feet per second to over 4,000 feet per second.

Pretty much every single rifle caliber could be considered "high-velocity".

The question I have is, why does velocity matter? .300 Blackout is deadly as FUCK in the AR system and it is subsonic.

uh-huh. .223 ammo was used to kill them thar 'varmints' at sandy hook.... & parkland... & the orlando nightclub.................. it's not just the bullets - like i said it's the multi round mags & drums as well. they were all turned into swiss cheese in mere seconds & those bullets don't enter & exit in a relative 'straight line'... the dude that invented the AR-15 didn't want it for public consumption.

Learn when to shut the fuck up. You are clueless.

.

THEY DO.

Wounds From Military-Style Rifles? ‘A Ghastly Thing to See’
Trauma surgeons tell what it is really like to try to repair such devastating injuries. “Bones are exploded, soft tissue is absolutely destroyed,” one said.

Image

Left, an X-ray of a leg showing a bullet wound delivered by an assault rifle used in combat. Right, an X-ray of a leg that sustained a bullet wound from a low-energy bullet, inflicted by a weapon like a handgun in Philadelphia.Creditvia Dr. Jeremy W. Cannon
Perhaps no one knows the devastating wounds inflicted by assault-style rifles better than the trauma surgeons who struggle to repair them. The doctors say they are haunted by their experiences confronting injuries so dire they struggle to find words to describe them.

At a high school in Parkland, Fla., 17 people were recently killed with just such a weapon — a semiautomatic AR-15. It was legal there for Nikolas Cruz, 19, the suspect in the shooting, to buy a civilian version of the military’s standard rifle, while he would have had to be 21 to buy a less powerful and accurate handgun.

Many factors determine the severity of a wound, including a bullet’s mass, velocity and composition, and where it strikes. The AR-15, like the M4 and M16 rifles issued to American soldiers, shoots lightweight, high-speed bullets that can cause grievous bone and soft tissue wounds, in part by turning sideways, or “yawing,” when they hit a person. Surgeons say the weapons produce the same sort of horrific injuries seen on battlefields.

Civilian owners of military-style weapons can also buy soft-nosed or hollow-point ammunition, often used for hunting, that lacks a full metal jacket and can expand and fragment on impact. Such bullets, which can cause wider wound channels, are proscribed in most military use.
[...]
Wounds From Military-Style Rifles? ‘A Ghastly Thing to See’

What happens when AR-15 rifle bullets tear through the human body
Chris Smith @chris_writes
June 21st, 2016 at 10:00 PM
[...]
“One looks like a grenade went off in there,” University of Arizona trauma surgeon Peter Rhee told Wired when comparing the damage done by AR-15 bullets and 9mm handgun bullets. “The other looks like a bad knife cut.”

The reason that happens is pretty simple, and it’s explained by physics. The bullet from an AR-15 rifle leaves the muzzle at three times the speed of a handgun bullet. That means it has plenty of energy to “distribute” inside the body upon collision.

It can disintegrate three inches of leg bone, turning it to “dust” according to Donald Jenkins, a trauma surgeon at the University of Texas Health Science Center. “The liver looks like a jello mold that’s been dropped on the floor,” if hit by the same bullet, Jenkins says. The exit would can be the size of an orange.

Comparatively, handgun bullets can be stopped by flesh and bone, and can pass through the body only to remain stuck in the skin.

Furthermore, AR-15 bullets don’t just affect the skin and the tissue immediately under it. In addition to turning a bone to dust or liver into jello, the high energy would also cause damage around the entry and exit wounds.

When a high-velocity bullet pierces the body, human tissue can ripple just like water does when you throw an object in it. But it all happens at increased velocity. The bullet and its ensuing fragments might miss a critical artery, but the cavitation effect could tear through blood vessels.

Rhee also said that a handgun would require only one surgery, but an AR-15 bullet wound needs three to ten.

Because it’s designed so well, the AR-15 fires almost without recoil, meaning that a shooter can inflict more damage with multiple bullets accurately hitting the same target. “The gun barely moves. You can sit there boom boom boom and reel off shots as fast as you can move your finger,” Denver Health trauma surgeon and Journal of Trauma and Acute Surgery editor Ernest Moore told Wired.

A video from the Smithsonian Channel shows the devastating effects of assault rifle fire on the human body: [on website]
What happens when AR-15 rifle bullets tear through the human body

You seem to be under the mistaken belief that other bullets are not lethal.

Let me demonstrate why you are not making a good argument:

Fine. You can ban the .223 cartridge ONLY, and I want a constitutional amendment stating that no other cartridge will be banned EVER.

The AR system can be used with MANY different calibers and cartridges, including all common pistol calibers and subsonic rounds, as well as .308, 7mm08, .243, .270 etc.

There. Problem solved.

We get to keep the AR system.

if you can't hit your target or kill a varmint with a 10 round clip, then you have no biz'nez owning a deadly rapid fire weapon.

An AR shoots at the same rate of fire as any other semi-auto gun. Did you know that?

40-round magazines are in common use. Defending a home in the dark against multiple threats makes a magazine change dangerous.

So, fuck off. We're not surrendering hi-cap mags.

.

 

[Papageorgio]

The guy must have been very naive. To think one could control his invention. Funny how after all these years his family is only now claiming why Mr. Stoner invented the Armorite Lite Rifle 15.

he never even owned his own invention.

And?

if he thought it okey dokey to have it on the market for public consumption, then why didn't he? that alone makes no sense...

It makes no sense that people go back 50 plus years to ascertain what a person's motives were at the time of his invention. How do you know for sure he did not own one? Oh, his family said so, you know the ones trying to control the narrative on the family name. Find the quote where Stoner ever denied owning one. He went on to invent other guns and rifles later in his life.

I didn't realize you were one of those people who says the information must be a lie if you don't like it. He didn't own one. His FAMILY said so. Call them liars again; maybe they'll sue you. They should.

Did I say they lied? I am saying no one knows and the family might have an agenda. I have no clue and neither do you. You are taking the word of a family you have never met and might have an agenda.

What is wrong with not accepting info at face value and researching and making sure?

 

[Siete]

Playtime has demonstrated that she should not be part of the process of defining which weapons should be banned. She is clueless.

But, to clear it up, every one of those would be considered "high-velocity" whether chambered in .223 or something else, unless they are specifically NOT high-velocity or maybe "subsonic" cartridges. "High-velocity" can range from 1,900 feet per second to over 4,000 feet per second.

Pretty much every single rifle caliber could be considered "high-velocity".

The question I have is, why does velocity matter? .300 Blackout is deadly as FUCK in the AR system and it is subsonic.

uh-huh. .223 ammo was used to kill them thar 'varmints' at sandy hook.... & parkland... & the orlando nightclub.................. it's not just the bullets - like i said it's the multi round mags & drums as well. they were all turned into swiss cheese in mere seconds & those bullets don't enter & exit in a relative 'straight line'... the dude that invented the AR-15 didn't want it for public consumption.

Learn when to shut the fuck up. You are clueless.

.

THEY DO.

Wounds From Military-Style Rifles? ‘A Ghastly Thing to See’
Trauma surgeons tell what it is really like to try to repair such devastating injuries. “Bones are exploded, soft tissue is absolutely destroyed,” one said.

Image

Left, an X-ray of a leg showing a bullet wound delivered by an assault rifle used in combat. Right, an X-ray of a leg that sustained a bullet wound from a low-energy bullet, inflicted by a weapon like a handgun in Philadelphia.Creditvia Dr. Jeremy W. Cannon
Perhaps no one knows the devastating wounds inflicted by assault-style rifles better than the trauma surgeons who struggle to repair them. The doctors say they are haunted by their experiences confronting injuries so dire they struggle to find words to describe them.

At a high school in Parkland, Fla., 17 people were recently killed with just such a weapon — a semiautomatic AR-15. It was legal there for Nikolas Cruz, 19, the suspect in the shooting, to buy a civilian version of the military’s standard rifle, while he would have had to be 21 to buy a less powerful and accurate handgun.

Many factors determine the severity of a wound, including a bullet’s mass, velocity and composition, and where it strikes. The AR-15, like the M4 and M16 rifles issued to American soldiers, shoots lightweight, high-speed bullets that can cause grievous bone and soft tissue wounds, in part by turning sideways, or “yawing,” when they hit a person. Surgeons say the weapons produce the same sort of horrific injuries seen on battlefields.

Civilian owners of military-style weapons can also buy soft-nosed or hollow-point ammunition, often used for hunting, that lacks a full metal jacket and can expand and fragment on impact. Such bullets, which can cause wider wound channels, are proscribed in most military use.
[...]
Wounds From Military-Style Rifles? ‘A Ghastly Thing to See’

What happens when AR-15 rifle bullets tear through the human body
Chris Smith @chris_writes
June 21st, 2016 at 10:00 PM
[...]
“One looks like a grenade went off in there,” University of Arizona trauma surgeon Peter Rhee told Wired when comparing the damage done by AR-15 bullets and 9mm handgun bullets. “The other looks like a bad knife cut.”

The reason that happens is pretty simple, and it’s explained by physics. The bullet from an AR-15 rifle leaves the muzzle at three times the speed of a handgun bullet. That means it has plenty of energy to “distribute” inside the body upon collision.

It can disintegrate three inches of leg bone, turning it to “dust” according to Donald Jenkins, a trauma surgeon at the University of Texas Health Science Center. “The liver looks like a jello mold that’s been dropped on the floor,” if hit by the same bullet, Jenkins says. The exit would can be the size of an orange.

Comparatively, handgun bullets can be stopped by flesh and bone, and can pass through the body only to remain stuck in the skin.

Furthermore, AR-15 bullets don’t just affect the skin and the tissue immediately under it. In addition to turning a bone to dust or liver into jello, the high energy would also cause damage around the entry and exit wounds.

When a high-velocity bullet pierces the body, human tissue can ripple just like water does when you throw an object in it. But it all happens at increased velocity. The bullet and its ensuing fragments might miss a critical artery, but the cavitation effect could tear through blood vessels.

Rhee also said that a handgun would require only one surgery, but an AR-15 bullet wound needs three to ten.

Because it’s designed so well, the AR-15 fires almost without recoil, meaning that a shooter can inflict more damage with multiple bullets accurately hitting the same target. “The gun barely moves. You can sit there boom boom boom and reel off shots as fast as you can move your finger,” Denver Health trauma surgeon and Journal of Trauma and Acute Surgery editor Ernest Moore told Wired.

A video from the Smithsonian Channel shows the devastating effects of assault rifle fire on the human body: [on website]
What happens when AR-15 rifle bullets tear through the human body

You seem to be under the mistaken belief that other bullets are not lethal.

Let me demonstrate why you are not making a good argument:

Fine. You can ban the .223 cartridge ONLY, and I want a constitutional amendment stating that no other cartridge will be banned EVER.

The AR system can be used with MANY different calibers and cartridges, including all common pistol calibers and subsonic rounds, as well as .308, 7mm08, .243, .270 etc.

There. Problem solved.

We get to keep the AR system.

if you can't hit your target or kill a varmint with a 10 round clip, then you have no biz'nez owning a deadly rapid fire weapon.

NEVER CAN TELL WHEN 75 - 100 PRAIRIE DOGS WILL RUSH YOU !

 

[Papageorgio]

The guy must have been very naive. To think one could control his invention. Funny how after all these years his family is only now claiming why Mr. Stoner invented the Armorite Lite Rifle 15.

he never even owned his own invention.

And?

if he thought it okey dokey to have it on the market for public consumption, then why didn't he? that alone makes no sense...

It makes no sense that people go back 50 plus years to ascertain what a person's motives were at the time of his invention. How do you know for sure he did not own one? Oh, his family said so, you know the ones trying to control the narrative on the family name. Find the quote where Stoner ever denied owning one. He went on to invent other guns and rifles later in his life.

i have no problems believing his family. why would you?

Okay. Why should I?

 

[OldLady]

he never even owned his own invention.

And?

if he thought it okey dokey to have it on the market for public consumption, then why didn't he? that alone makes no sense...

It makes no sense that people go back 50 plus years to ascertain what a person's motives were at the time of his invention. How do you know for sure he did not own one? Oh, his family said so, you know the ones trying to control the narrative on the family name. Find the quote where Stoner ever denied owning one. He went on to invent other guns and rifles later in his life.

I didn't realize you were one of those people who says the information must be a lie if you don't like it. He didn't own one. His FAMILY said so. Call them liars again; maybe they'll sue you. They should.

Did I say they lied? I am saying no one knows and the family might have an agenda. I have no clue and neither do you. You are taking the word of a family you have never met and might have an agenda.

What is wrong with not accepting info at face value and researching and making sure?

"How do you know for sure he did not own one?"
"Oh, his family said so, you know the ones trying to control the narrative..."
"Find the quote where Stoner ever denied owning one."

Don't treat me like I'm stupid or something.

 

[Papageorgio]

And?

if he thought it okey dokey to have it on the market for public consumption, then why didn't he? that alone makes no sense...

It makes no sense that people go back 50 plus years to ascertain what a person's motives were at the time of his invention. How do you know for sure he did not own one? Oh, his family said so, you know the ones trying to control the narrative on the family name. Find the quote where Stoner ever denied owning one. He went on to invent other guns and rifles later in his life.

I didn't realize you were one of those people who says the information must be a lie if you don't like it. He didn't own one. His FAMILY said so. Call them liars again; maybe they'll sue you. They should.

Did I say they lied? I am saying no one knows and the family might have an agenda. I have no clue and neither do you. You are taking the word of a family you have never met and might have an agenda.

What is wrong with not accepting info at face value and researching and making sure?

"How do you know for sure he did not own one?"
"Oh, his family said so, you know the ones trying to control the narrative..."
"Find the quote where Stoner ever denied owning one."

Don't treat me like I'm stupid or something.

Look, his family is they only ones to say if he owned one or not. His family "feels" that he only intended for the military to have them.

I don't think your stupid, never said that, sorry if you got that impression. I am unsure why I can't be skeptical on what the motives of the family are. Maybe you should get a hold of them so you can have them sue like you want them to.

 

[OldLady]

if he thought it okey dokey to have it on the market for public consumption, then why didn't he? that alone makes no sense...

It makes no sense that people go back 50 plus years to ascertain what a person's motives were at the time of his invention. How do you know for sure he did not own one? Oh, his family said so, you know the ones trying to control the narrative on the family name. Find the quote where Stoner ever denied owning one. He went on to invent other guns and rifles later in his life.

I didn't realize you were one of those people who says the information must be a lie if you don't like it. He didn't own one. His FAMILY said so. Call them liars again; maybe they'll sue you. They should.

Did I say they lied? I am saying no one knows and the family might have an agenda. I have no clue and neither do you. You are taking the word of a family you have never met and might have an agenda.

What is wrong with not accepting info at face value and researching and making sure?

"How do you know for sure he did not own one?"
"Oh, his family said so, you know the ones trying to control the narrative..."
"Find the quote where Stoner ever denied owning one."

Don't treat me like I'm stupid or something.

Look, his family is they only ones to say if he owned one or not. His family "feels" that he only intended for the military to have them.

I don't think your stupid, never said that, sorry if you got that impression. I am unsure why I can't be skeptical on what the motives of the family are. Maybe you should get a hold of them so you can have them sue like you want them to.

I'm done giving you a hard time. Don't think you convinced me or anything, though.

 

[Papageorgio]

It makes no sense that people go back 50 plus years to ascertain what a person's motives were at the time of his invention. How do you know for sure he did not own one? Oh, his family said so, you know the ones trying to control the narrative on the family name. Find the quote where Stoner ever denied owning one. He went on to invent other guns and rifles later in his life.

I didn't realize you were one of those people who says the information must be a lie if you don't like it. He didn't own one. His FAMILY said so. Call them liars again; maybe they'll sue you. They should.

Did I say they lied? I am saying no one knows and the family might have an agenda. I have no clue and neither do you. You are taking the word of a family you have never met and might have an agenda.

What is wrong with not accepting info at face value and researching and making sure?

"How do you know for sure he did not own one?"
"Oh, his family said so, you know the ones trying to control the narrative..."
"Find the quote where Stoner ever denied owning one."

Don't treat me like I'm stupid or something.

Look, his family is they only ones to say if he owned one or not. His family "feels" that he only intended for the military to have them.

I don't think your stupid, never said that, sorry if you got that impression. I am unsure why I can't be skeptical on what the motives of the family are. Maybe you should get a hold of them so you can have them sue like you want them to.

I'm done giving you a hard time. Don't think you convinced me or anything, though.

I didn't know you were giving me a hard time, you are here only for my entertainment.

I know you didn't convince me of anything.

 

[justinacolmena]

Lol
You know nothing about firearms shit for brains

But she said her hubby was a marine. She has to know.

Whatever happened to the death-before-dishonor and the semper-fi and all that from US Marine Corps?

None of it really matters. Trumps been able to work the illegal immigration thing along, but ultimately he has failed to keep his promise there. And it looks like he is starting g to crawfish on his promises about the 2nd amendment.

It's a felony arrest or a justified killing by a police officer waiting to happen, once you get on those liberals' gun ban & property ban shitlists, and there's no way out from the inner-city shithole they have created by law, ever.

Any additional "Gun Control" only affects law abiding citizens.....period.
So further infringements only mean it gets more dangerous for law abiding people who have had their gun rights severely restricted.

White collar criminals and thieves in law have restricted our gun rights in order to "take" our property without any restrictions.

US Constitution, Amendment XVI

The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration.

Alaska Constitution, Article IX, §1

The power of taxation shall never be surrendered. This power shall not be suspended or contracted away, except as provided in this article.

 

[Darkwind]

You've lost me. ERPO is about individuals exhibiting homicidal/suicidal behavior. One person at a time. I'm not sure how statistical rarity of mass shootings factors into that at all.

Really? You couldn't follow what he was saying?

Still waiting for you to explain how one in two million people having an adverse reaction to a psychotropic drug somehow becomes an argument against a Red Flag law.

It's not an argument against red flag laws - its merely pointing out that we find it perfectly okay to cause manic/violent behavior because the side effect is RARE.

And manic/violent behavior causes mass shootings...but mass shootings are even more rare than the side effects we're fine with gambling on.

Its evident... that in some cases we are okay with risking violence. And that deserves to be a part of the discussion ~ meaning, are we placing restrictions on free citizens using arbitrary/inconsistent reasoning, basing it on something thats really quite rare, using the emotions that seeing these things on TV brings us...or are we being rational and consistent.

Of the 10, 000 yearly deaths, the majority are not due to the mentally ill mass shooters, either. Theyre due to punk kids, and red flag laws dont resolve the largest issue regarding gun deaths...only seeks to mitigate the more irrational/emotional one.

Which it won't do because if one wants to kill allot of people, or even just try they have many options to do just that. They can do like the Boston bombers did and use fireworks and pressure cookers, they can take over an aircraft, they can grab the keys and go for a drive, they can grab a knife from the kitchen, and axe from the shed or a spork from Taco Bell.

Duh. So what is your solution?

Consider this:

Common sense gun regulations may not prevent a monster from getting a gun, but no regulations assure a monster will get a gun and kill innocent people.

As for driving a car, using pressure cookers, taking over an aircraft or any other means to take a human life, guns seem to be the tool of choice.

Let Me correct this for you.

Common sense gun regulations WILL NOT prevent a monster from getting a gun. FULL STOP

Gun regulations serve to harm ONLY the innocent.

 

[Darkwind]

You mean, like these:

Could you clear it up further please. The high vel ammo part. Playtime don't understand how all that works. I don't see threads on those barrels so would you high velocity ammo with those or subsonic?

Playtime has demonstrated that she should not be part of the process of defining which weapons should be banned. She is clueless.

But, to clear it up, every one of those would be considered "high-velocity" whether chambered in .223 or something else, unless they are specifically NOT high-velocity or maybe "subsonic" cartridges. "High-velocity" can range from 1,900 feet per second to over 4,000 feet per second.

Pretty much every single rifle caliber could be considered "high-velocity".

The question I have is, why does velocity matter? .300 Blackout is deadly as FUCK in the AR system and it is subsonic.

uh-huh. .223 ammo was used to kill them thar 'varmints' at sandy hook.... & parkland... & the orlando nightclub.................. it's not just the bullets - like i said it's the multi round mags & drums as well. they were all turned into swiss cheese in mere seconds & those bullets don't enter & exit in a relative 'straight line'... the dude that invented the AR-15 didn't want it for public consumption.

Learn when to shut the fuck up. You are clueless.

.

THEY DO.

Wounds From Military-Style Rifles? ‘A Ghastly Thing to See’
Trauma surgeons tell what it is really like to try to repair such devastating injuries. “Bones are exploded, soft tissue is absolutely destroyed,” one said.

Image

Left, an X-ray of a leg showing a bullet wound delivered by an assault rifle used in combat. Right, an X-ray of a leg that sustained a bullet wound from a low-energy bullet, inflicted by a weapon like a handgun in Philadelphia.Creditvia Dr. Jeremy W. Cannon
Perhaps no one knows the devastating wounds inflicted by assault-style rifles better than the trauma surgeons who struggle to repair them. The doctors say they are haunted by their experiences confronting injuries so dire they struggle to find words to describe them.

At a high school in Parkland, Fla., 17 people were recently killed with just such a weapon — a semiautomatic AR-15. It was legal there for Nikolas Cruz, 19, the suspect in the shooting, to buy a civilian version of the military’s standard rifle, while he would have had to be 21 to buy a less powerful and accurate handgun.

Many factors determine the severity of a wound, including a bullet’s mass, velocity and composition, and where it strikes. The AR-15, like the M4 and M16 rifles issued to American soldiers, shoots lightweight, high-speed bullets that can cause grievous bone and soft tissue wounds, in part by turning sideways, or “yawing,” when they hit a person. Surgeons say the weapons produce the same sort of horrific injuries seen on battlefields.

Civilian owners of military-style weapons can also buy soft-nosed or hollow-point ammunition, often used for hunting, that lacks a full metal jacket and can expand and fragment on impact. Such bullets, which can cause wider wound channels, are proscribed in most military use.
[...]
Wounds From Military-Style Rifles? ‘A Ghastly Thing to See’

What happens when AR-15 rifle bullets tear through the human body
Chris Smith @chris_writes
June 21st, 2016 at 10:00 PM
[...]
“One looks like a grenade went off in there,” University of Arizona trauma surgeon Peter Rhee told Wired when comparing the damage done by AR-15 bullets and 9mm handgun bullets. “The other looks like a bad knife cut.”

The reason that happens is pretty simple, and it’s explained by physics. The bullet from an AR-15 rifle leaves the muzzle at three times the speed of a handgun bullet. That means it has plenty of energy to “distribute” inside the body upon collision.

It can disintegrate three inches of leg bone, turning it to “dust” according to Donald Jenkins, a trauma surgeon at the University of Texas Health Science Center. “The liver looks like a jello mold that’s been dropped on the floor,” if hit by the same bullet, Jenkins says. The exit would can be the size of an orange.

Comparatively, handgun bullets can be stopped by flesh and bone, and can pass through the body only to remain stuck in the skin.

Furthermore, AR-15 bullets don’t just affect the skin and the tissue immediately under it. In addition to turning a bone to dust or liver into jello, the high energy would also cause damage around the entry and exit wounds.

When a high-velocity bullet pierces the body, human tissue can ripple just like water does when you throw an object in it. But it all happens at increased velocity. The bullet and its ensuing fragments might miss a critical artery, but the cavitation effect could tear through blood vessels.

Rhee also said that a handgun would require only one surgery, but an AR-15 bullet wound needs three to ten.

Because it’s designed so well, the AR-15 fires almost without recoil, meaning that a shooter can inflict more damage with multiple bullets accurately hitting the same target. “The gun barely moves. You can sit there boom boom boom and reel off shots as fast as you can move your finger,” Denver Health trauma surgeon and Journal of Trauma and Acute Surgery editor Ernest Moore told Wired.

A video from the Smithsonian Channel shows the devastating effects of assault rifle fire on the human body: [on website]
What happens when AR-15 rifle bullets tear through the human body

Good. A weapon is not a toy and it should do as much damage as possible.

However, you haven't provided a single reason for taking them away from innocent people.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Really? You couldn't follow what he was saying?

Still waiting for you to explain how one in two million people having an adverse reaction to a psychotropic drug somehow becomes an argument against a Red Flag law.

It's not an argument against red flag laws - its merely pointing out that we find it perfectly okay to cause manic/violent behavior because the side effect is RARE.

And manic/violent behavior causes mass shootings...but mass shootings are even more rare than the side effects we're fine with gambling on.

Its evident... that in some cases we are okay with risking violence. And that deserves to be a part of the discussion ~ meaning, are we placing restrictions on free citizens using arbitrary/inconsistent reasoning, basing it on something thats really quite rare, using the emotions that seeing these things on TV brings us...or are we being rational and consistent.

Of the 10, 000 yearly deaths, the majority are not due to the mentally ill mass shooters, either. Theyre due to punk kids, and red flag laws dont resolve the largest issue regarding gun deaths...only seeks to mitigate the more irrational/emotional one.

Which it won't do because if one wants to kill allot of people, or even just try they have many options to do just that. They can do like the Boston bombers did and use fireworks and pressure cookers, they can take over an aircraft, they can grab the keys and go for a drive, they can grab a knife from the kitchen, and axe from the shed or a spork from Taco Bell.

Duh. So what is your solution?

Consider this:

Common sense gun regulations may not prevent a monster from getting a gun, but no regulations assure a monster will get a gun and kill innocent people.

As for driving a car, using pressure cookers, taking over an aircraft or any other means to take a human life, guns seem to be the tool of choice.

Let Me correct this for you.

Common sense gun regulations WILL NOT prevent a monster from getting a gun. FULL STOP

Gun regulations serve to harm ONLY the innocent.

Oh bullshit. The only innocents are those shot, killed or maimed and the families and friends of those victims attacked by the monsters. MONSTERS YOU enable and that makes you culpable.

 

[Crixus]

You mean, like these:

Could you clear it up further please. The high vel ammo part. Playtime don't understand how all that works. I don't see threads on those barrels so would you high velocity ammo with those or subsonic?

Playtime has demonstrated that she should not be part of the process of defining which weapons should be banned. She is clueless.

But, to clear it up, every one of those would be considered "high-velocity" whether chambered in .223 or something else, unless they are specifically NOT high-velocity or maybe "subsonic" cartridges. "High-velocity" can range from 1,900 feet per second to over 4,000 feet per second.

Pretty much every single rifle caliber could be considered "high-velocity".

The question I have is, why does velocity matter? .300 Blackout is deadly as FUCK in the AR system and it is subsonic.

uh-huh. .223 ammo was used to kill them thar 'varmints' at sandy hook.... & parkland... & the orlando nightclub.................. it's not just the bullets - like i said it's the multi round mags & drums as well. they were all turned into swiss cheese in mere seconds & those bullets don't enter & exit in a relative 'straight line'... the dude that invented the AR-15 didn't want it for public consumption.

Learn when to shut the fuck up. You are clueless.

.

THEY DO.

Wounds From Military-Style Rifles? ‘A Ghastly Thing to See’
Trauma surgeons tell what it is really like to try to repair such devastating injuries. “Bones are exploded, soft tissue is absolutely destroyed,” one said.

Image

Left, an X-ray of a leg showing a bullet wound delivered by an assault rifle used in combat. Right, an X-ray of a leg that sustained a bullet wound from a low-energy bullet, inflicted by a weapon like a handgun in Philadelphia.Creditvia Dr. Jeremy W. Cannon
Perhaps no one knows the devastating wounds inflicted by assault-style rifles better than the trauma surgeons who struggle to repair them. The doctors say they are haunted by their experiences confronting injuries so dire they struggle to find words to describe them.

At a high school in Parkland, Fla., 17 people were recently killed with just such a weapon — a semiautomatic AR-15. It was legal there for Nikolas Cruz, 19, the suspect in the shooting, to buy a civilian version of the military’s standard rifle, while he would have had to be 21 to buy a less powerful and accurate handgun.

Many factors determine the severity of a wound, including a bullet’s mass, velocity and composition, and where it strikes. The AR-15, like the M4 and M16 rifles issued to American soldiers, shoots lightweight, high-speed bullets that can cause grievous bone and soft tissue wounds, in part by turning sideways, or “yawing,” when they hit a person. Surgeons say the weapons produce the same sort of horrific injuries seen on battlefields.

Civilian owners of military-style weapons can also buy soft-nosed or hollow-point ammunition, often used for hunting, that lacks a full metal jacket and can expand and fragment on impact. Such bullets, which can cause wider wound channels, are proscribed in most military use.
[...]
Wounds From Military-Style Rifles? ‘A Ghastly Thing to See’

What happens when AR-15 rifle bullets tear through the human body
Chris Smith @chris_writes
June 21st, 2016 at 10:00 PM
[...]
“One looks like a grenade went off in there,” University of Arizona trauma surgeon Peter Rhee told Wired when comparing the damage done by AR-15 bullets and 9mm handgun bullets. “The other looks like a bad knife cut.”

The reason that happens is pretty simple, and it’s explained by physics. The bullet from an AR-15 rifle leaves the muzzle at three times the speed of a handgun bullet. That means it has plenty of energy to “distribute” inside the body upon collision.

It can disintegrate three inches of leg bone, turning it to “dust” according to Donald Jenkins, a trauma surgeon at the University of Texas Health Science Center. “The liver looks like a jello mold that’s been dropped on the floor,” if hit by the same bullet, Jenkins says. The exit would can be the size of an orange.

Comparatively, handgun bullets can be stopped by flesh and bone, and can pass through the body only to remain stuck in the skin.

Furthermore, AR-15 bullets don’t just affect the skin and the tissue immediately under it. In addition to turning a bone to dust or liver into jello, the high energy would also cause damage around the entry and exit wounds.

When a high-velocity bullet pierces the body, human tissue can ripple just like water does when you throw an object in it. But it all happens at increased velocity. The bullet and its ensuing fragments might miss a critical artery, but the cavitation effect could tear through blood vessels.

Rhee also said that a handgun would require only one surgery, but an AR-15 bullet wound needs three to ten.

Because it’s designed so well, the AR-15 fires almost without recoil, meaning that a shooter can inflict more damage with multiple bullets accurately hitting the same target. “The gun barely moves. You can sit there boom boom boom and reel off shots as fast as you can move your finger,” Denver Health trauma surgeon and Journal of Trauma and Acute Surgery editor Ernest Moore told Wired.

A video from the Smithsonian Channel shows the devastating effects of assault rifle fire on the human body: [on website]
What happens when AR-15 rifle bullets tear through the human body

You are only proving your ignorance on the topic.

 

[Crixus]

Really? You couldn't follow what he was saying?

Still waiting for you to explain how one in two million people having an adverse reaction to a psychotropic drug somehow becomes an argument against a Red Flag law.

It's not an argument against red flag laws - its merely pointing out that we find it perfectly okay to cause manic/violent behavior because the side effect is RARE.

And manic/violent behavior causes mass shootings...but mass shootings are even more rare than the side effects we're fine with gambling on.

Its evident... that in some cases we are okay with risking violence. And that deserves to be a part of the discussion ~ meaning, are we placing restrictions on free citizens using arbitrary/inconsistent reasoning, basing it on something thats really quite rare, using the emotions that seeing these things on TV brings us...or are we being rational and consistent.

Of the 10, 000 yearly deaths, the majority are not due to the mentally ill mass shooters, either. Theyre due to punk kids, and red flag laws dont resolve the largest issue regarding gun deaths...only seeks to mitigate the more irrational/emotional one.

Which it won't do because if one wants to kill allot of people, or even just try they have many options to do just that. They can do like the Boston bombers did and use fireworks and pressure cookers, they can take over an aircraft, they can grab the keys and go for a drive, they can grab a knife from the kitchen, and axe from the shed or a spork from Taco Bell.

Duh. So what is your solution?

Consider this:

Common sense gun regulations may not prevent a monster from getting a gun, but no regulations assure a monster will get a gun and kill innocent people.

As for driving a car, using pressure cookers, taking over an aircraft or any other means to take a human life, guns seem to be the tool of choice.

not to mention the sole purpose of a gun is to maim at best & kill at worst at a distance that protects the person holding it.

Again, you are only proving the point that you don't know what your talking about. Best stick to kitchen stuff.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

So this is what Trump said. Mike Pence says take ANYTHING that is dangerous. I gotta ask how this squares with Trumps claim to love the 2nd amendment and his promise to protect it, yet here he is trying to remove it, as well as the 4th amendment.



So I ask you die hard trumpkins, y'all good with this?

Of course you candidates would absolutely support the 2nd.

 

[pknopp]

So this is what Trump said. Mike Pence says take ANYTHING that is dangerous. I gotta ask how this squares with Trumps claim to love the 2nd amendment and his promise to protect it, yet here he is trying to remove it, as well as the 4th amendment.



So I ask you die hard trumpkins, y'all good with this?

Of course you candidates would absolutely support the 2nd.

If they do or not it has nothing to do with the conflict between Trump's words and what he does.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

So this is what Trump said. Mike Pence says take ANYTHING that is dangerous. I gotta ask how this squares with Trumps claim to love the 2nd amendment and his promise to protect it, yet here he is trying to remove it, as well as the 4th amendment.



So I ask you die hard trumpkins, y'all good with this?

Of course you candidates would absolutely support the 2nd.

If they do or not it has nothing to do with the conflict between Trump's words and what he does.

Of course it does. They will make every effort to peel away support from a man who in infinitely better than who they are trying to replace him with.

 

[Crixus]

Could you clear it up further please. The high vel ammo part. Playtime don't understand how all that works. I don't see threads on those barrels so would you high velocity ammo with those or subsonic?

Playtime has demonstrated that she should not be part of the process of defining which weapons should be banned. She is clueless.

But, to clear it up, every one of those would be considered "high-velocity" whether chambered in .223 or something else, unless they are specifically NOT high-velocity or maybe "subsonic" cartridges. "High-velocity" can range from 1,900 feet per second to over 4,000 feet per second.

Pretty much every single rifle caliber could be considered "high-velocity".

The question I have is, why does velocity matter? .300 Blackout is deadly as FUCK in the AR system and it is subsonic.

uh-huh. .223 ammo was used to kill them thar 'varmints' at sandy hook.... & parkland... & the orlando nightclub.................. it's not just the bullets - like i said it's the multi round mags & drums as well. they were all turned into swiss cheese in mere seconds & those bullets don't enter & exit in a relative 'straight line'... the dude that invented the AR-15 didn't want it for public consumption.

Learn when to shut the fuck up. You are clueless.

.

THEY DO.

Wounds From Military-Style Rifles? ‘A Ghastly Thing to See’
Trauma surgeons tell what it is really like to try to repair such devastating injuries. “Bones are exploded, soft tissue is absolutely destroyed,” one said.

Image

Left, an X-ray of a leg showing a bullet wound delivered by an assault rifle used in combat. Right, an X-ray of a leg that sustained a bullet wound from a low-energy bullet, inflicted by a weapon like a handgun in Philadelphia.Creditvia Dr. Jeremy W. Cannon
Perhaps no one knows the devastating wounds inflicted by assault-style rifles better than the trauma surgeons who struggle to repair them. The doctors say they are haunted by their experiences confronting injuries so dire they struggle to find words to describe them.

At a high school in Parkland, Fla., 17 people were recently killed with just such a weapon — a semiautomatic AR-15. It was legal there for Nikolas Cruz, 19, the suspect in the shooting, to buy a civilian version of the military’s standard rifle, while he would have had to be 21 to buy a less powerful and accurate handgun.

Many factors determine the severity of a wound, including a bullet’s mass, velocity and composition, and where it strikes. The AR-15, like the M4 and M16 rifles issued to American soldiers, shoots lightweight, high-speed bullets that can cause grievous bone and soft tissue wounds, in part by turning sideways, or “yawing,” when they hit a person. Surgeons say the weapons produce the same sort of horrific injuries seen on battlefields.

Civilian owners of military-style weapons can also buy soft-nosed or hollow-point ammunition, often used for hunting, that lacks a full metal jacket and can expand and fragment on impact. Such bullets, which can cause wider wound channels, are proscribed in most military use.
[...]
Wounds From Military-Style Rifles? ‘A Ghastly Thing to See’

What happens when AR-15 rifle bullets tear through the human body
Chris Smith @chris_writes
June 21st, 2016 at 10:00 PM
[...]
“One looks like a grenade went off in there,” University of Arizona trauma surgeon Peter Rhee told Wired when comparing the damage done by AR-15 bullets and 9mm handgun bullets. “The other looks like a bad knife cut.”

The reason that happens is pretty simple, and it’s explained by physics. The bullet from an AR-15 rifle leaves the muzzle at three times the speed of a handgun bullet. That means it has plenty of energy to “distribute” inside the body upon collision.

It can disintegrate three inches of leg bone, turning it to “dust” according to Donald Jenkins, a trauma surgeon at the University of Texas Health Science Center. “The liver looks like a jello mold that’s been dropped on the floor,” if hit by the same bullet, Jenkins says. The exit would can be the size of an orange.

Comparatively, handgun bullets can be stopped by flesh and bone, and can pass through the body only to remain stuck in the skin.

Furthermore, AR-15 bullets don’t just affect the skin and the tissue immediately under it. In addition to turning a bone to dust or liver into jello, the high energy would also cause damage around the entry and exit wounds.

When a high-velocity bullet pierces the body, human tissue can ripple just like water does when you throw an object in it. But it all happens at increased velocity. The bullet and its ensuing fragments might miss a critical artery, but the cavitation effect could tear through blood vessels.

Rhee also said that a handgun would require only one surgery, but an AR-15 bullet wound needs three to ten.

Because it’s designed so well, the AR-15 fires almost without recoil, meaning that a shooter can inflict more damage with multiple bullets accurately hitting the same target. “The gun barely moves. You can sit there boom boom boom and reel off shots as fast as you can move your finger,” Denver Health trauma surgeon and Journal of Trauma and Acute Surgery editor Ernest Moore told Wired.

A video from the Smithsonian Channel shows the devastating effects of assault rifle fire on the human body: [on website]
What happens when AR-15 rifle bullets tear through the human body

You seem to be under the mistaken belief that other bullets are not lethal.

Let me demonstrate why you are not making a good argument:

Fine. You can ban the .223 cartridge ONLY, and I want a constitutional amendment stating that no other cartridge will be banned EVER.

The AR system can be used with MANY different calibers and cartridges, including all common pistol calibers and subsonic rounds, as well as .308, 7mm08, .243, .270 etc.

There. Problem solved.

We get to keep the AR system.

It's all rabbit holes. The caliber doesn't matter and the platform means nothing. The Colombine shooters used 9mm carbines and shot guns. Hand guns have been used and so on.

 

[pknopp]

So this is what Trump said. Mike Pence says take ANYTHING that is dangerous. I gotta ask how this squares with Trumps claim to love the 2nd amendment and his promise to protect it, yet here he is trying to remove it, as well as the 4th amendment.



So I ask you die hard trumpkins, y'all good with this?

Of course you candidates would absolutely support the 2nd.

If they do or not it has nothing to do with the conflict between Trump's words and what he does.

Of course it does. They will make every effort to peel away support from a man who in infinitely better than who they are trying to replace him with.

So it's OK for Trump to say he is OK with the 2nd even though he supports positions that would curtail those rights because others are honest about their positions on the 2nd?

 

[Crixus]

It makes no sense that people go back 50 plus years to ascertain what a person's motives were at the time of his invention. How do you know for sure he did not own one? Oh, his family said so, you know the ones trying to control the narrative on the family name. Find the quote where Stoner ever denied owning one. He went on to invent other guns and rifles later in his life.

I didn't realize you were one of those people who says the information must be a lie if you don't like it. He didn't own one. His FAMILY said so. Call them liars again; maybe they'll sue you. They should.

Did I say they lied? I am saying no one knows and the family might have an agenda. I have no clue and neither do you. You are taking the word of a family you have never met and might have an agenda.

What is wrong with not accepting info at face value and researching and making sure?

"How do you know for sure he did not own one?"
"Oh, his family said so, you know the ones trying to control the narrative..."
"Find the quote where Stoner ever denied owning one."

Don't treat me like I'm stupid or something.

Look, his family is they only ones to say if he owned one or not. His family "feels" that he only intended for the military to have them.

I don't think your stupid, never said that, sorry if you got that impression. I am unsure why I can't be skeptical on what the motives of the family are. Maybe you should get a hold of them so you can have them sue like you want them to.

I'm done giving you a hard time. Don't think you convinced me or anything, though.

Think of it like this. You hear a knock at the door and then,

Ma'am, how you doing I'm officer dude, and this is officer guy. Is it okay if we come in ? Thank you. Mrs. Lady, we received a complaint that you made a disturbing post on a website called USMB. Here it is right here, do you recognize it at all? You do? Okay so we need to take a look at your browser history real fast, ma'am do you own any firearms? No? Well, for the sake of public safety we need to go head and have a look. What ? We can't do that? Well Mrs. Lady, due to the nature of your post by law and executive order of president Trump we can. We will also need your car keys and we will need to remove all objects from your house that we deem dangerous. Don't worry Mrs. Lady, this is all easy to work out. Just show up to court on this day and you will be able to tell your side of the story and work it all out. In the mean time, no driving as your DL has been suspended until this is cleared up.

Mean while, if your lucky you will get a court date in the near future, and hopefully you got the cash to cover the impound fee as well as court fees. Do you work? Because if news of the visit gets back to your employer that the cops had to come to your house for the stated reason you may get fired.