Taliban leader admits tough Obama will win the war that Bush failed

[NotfooledbyW]

The point would be the Taliban have not seemed to have gotten the message they have lost the war in fact they seem more determined than ever to take back what they have lost.

Its not whether they have given up yet. Its how long they can recruit new fighters when they are not fighting against foreigners. They must ask recruits to kill Muslins. Three hundred thousand Muslims who are now serving in the government.


The Taliban are also at the moment losing more of its sanctuary across the border in North Waziristan, Pakistan:

ISLAMABAD (AP) — The Pakistani army Sunday launched a long-awaited operation against foreign and local militants in a tribal region near the Afghan border, hours after jets pounded insurgent hideouts in the country's northwest, the army said.

The move effectively ends the government's policy of trying to negotiate with Pakistani Taliban militants instead of using force to end the years of fighting that has killed tens of thousands of civilians and security forces.
The North Waziristan tribal area, where the military said the operation is targeted, is one of the last areas in the tribal regions where the military has not launched a large operation. Militant groups including the Pakistani Taliban, al-Qaeda and the Haqqani network have long used the region as a base from which to attack both Pakistan and neighboring Afghanistan.
"Using North Waziristan as a base, these terrorists had waged a war against the state of Pakistan," military spokesman Gen. Asim Saleem Bajwa said in a press release announcing the operation.

Pakistan army launches offensive against militants

Pakistan army launches offensive against militants. Rebecca Santana and Asif Shahzad, Associated Press Jun 15, 2014



And this:

Bannu, Pakistan: A US drone strike on Wednesday killed least 18 people in a suspected militant compound in Pakistan's northwestern tribal belt, as the country's military wages a major offensive against insurgent hideouts.

The attack came in North Waziristan, where for the past month the Pakistani military has been fighting to wipe out longstanding bases of Taliban and other militants.

"A US drone fired two missiles targeting a militant compound in Zoi Saidgai area, killing at least 18 insurgents," a senior security official in Miranshah, the main town of North Waziristan, told AFP.

The official said there had been reports of militants moving to Zoi Saidgai from Miranshah and Mir Ali, the other main town in the area, after the start of the army operation.

Another security official said as many as 20 people may have been killed in the strike, 12 of them Uzbeks.

He said the attack took place around 2:00 am (2100 GMT) while an important meeting was going on in the compound.

In a statement issued to the media, the military claimed of killing 35 terrorists in separate incident of aerial strikes.

"Today early morning 35 fleeing terrorists were killed through aerial strikes in Shawal Valley," it said.

US Drone Strike Kills 18 in North Western Pakistan - NDTV


The Taliban are runnin' like rats. Some are shaving their beards and cutting their hair as they flee Pakistani troops and Obama's Hellfire's.

 

[AntiParty]

The Bush vs. Obama bad guy marathon is like watching the Kardashians with my wife....

$$$ controls them, nothing more. Read more, type less.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

As if anyone gave a shit if Saddam had WMD. We won in Iraq and then your magic neeeegro gave the victory away... And has paid no attention since. He is a loser Foo..get over him.

Could you explain to EconChick then that Bush lied if he really didnt give a shut about WMD. He said he had intelligence that left no doubt that Iraq was hiding WMD from UN inspectors on March 17, 2003. That is why he sent over 4500 Americans to their deaths. It was to find those WMD.


If Bush won something in Iraq you would be able to tell us what Bush won.

Was it democracy in Iraq that Bush won? Was it 'improved conditions' after fucking up Iraq's conditions that Bush won?

A majority vote of Iraqi legislators in attendance approved the new security agreement. The passage of the pact "affirms the growth of Iraq's democracy" as well as its "increasing ability to secure itself," Bush said in White House statement issued yesterday.

"Two years ago, this day seemed unlikely - but the success of the surge and the courage of the Iraqi people set the conditions for these two agreements to be negotiated and approved by the Iraqi parliament," Bush continued in the statement. "The improved conditions on the ground and the parliamentary approval of these two agreements serve as a testament to the Iraqi, Coalition, and American men and women, both military and civilian, who paved the way for this day."

http://www.defense.gov/news/newsarticle.aspx?id=52119


So if Bush won 'improved conditions' and 'growth of democracy' in Iraq by the end of 2008 as he claimed why would it be Obama's fault that Bush lied about that too?

Bush praised his surrender agreenent SOFA as the result of improved conditions. So Bush cut a deal that forced Obama to accept that US troops had to withdraw from Iraq cities by July 1 2008. And withdraw from Iraq all troops by 2012.

Obama's hands were tied to getting the troops out by Bush's failure to stop Maliki from requesting in 2007 that the UN terminate the Mandate that allowed the presence of coaltion military troops in Iraq with the immunity they need.

Bush should have stopped Maliki from ending the US occupation of Iraq if he knew the security gains were not real and the democratic process sucked.

Bush was the loser going in (for lying and being stupid about occupying Iraq) and Bush was the loser going out for surrendering to Maliki and Muqtada al Sadr in a last minute deal to push the blame on the incoming administration that was confronted by economic collapse and the verge of US military calamity and failure in the real war on terrorists in Afghanistan,

 

[Mojo2]

Show me a loyal, red-blooded, patriotic American who DID NOT support military action to go after OBL in Afghanistan after the 9/11 attacks.

Was going after OBL the only reason Bush told loyal red blooded patriotic Americans why we were taking military action in Afghanistan in 2002?

You tell me.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

Show me a loyal, red-blooded, patriotic American who DID NOT support military action to go after OBL in Afghanistan after the 9/11 attacks.

Was going after OBL the only reason Bush told loyal red blooded patriotic Americans why we were taking military action in Afghanistan in 2002?

You tell me.

Of course it was not. For purposes of discussion I hoped to see in your own words what you think was the military objective and why you supported it from the start?

 

[blackhawk]

The point would be the Taliban have not seemed to have gotten the message they have lost the war in fact they seem more determined than ever to take back what they have lost.

Its not whether they have given up yet. Its how long they can recruit new fighters when they are not fighting against foreigners. They must ask recruits to kill Muslins. Three hundred thousand Muslims who are now serving in the government.


The Taliban are also at the moment losing more of its sanctuary across the border in North Waziristan, Pakistan:

ISLAMABAD (AP) — The Pakistani army Sunday launched a long-awaited operation against foreign and local militants in a tribal region near the Afghan border, hours after jets pounded insurgent hideouts in the country's northwest, the army said.

The move effectively ends the government's policy of trying to negotiate with Pakistani Taliban militants instead of using force to end the years of fighting that has killed tens of thousands of civilians and security forces.
The North Waziristan tribal area, where the military said the operation is targeted, is one of the last areas in the tribal regions where the military has not launched a large operation. Militant groups including the Pakistani Taliban, al-Qaeda and the Haqqani network have long used the region as a base from which to attack both Pakistan and neighboring Afghanistan.
"Using North Waziristan as a base, these terrorists had waged a war against the state of Pakistan," military spokesman Gen. Asim Saleem Bajwa said in a press release announcing the operation.

Pakistan army launches offensive against militants

Pakistan army launches offensive against militants. Rebecca Santana and Asif Shahzad, Associated Press Jun 15, 2014



And this:

Bannu, Pakistan: A US drone strike on Wednesday killed least 18 people in a suspected militant compound in Pakistan's northwestern tribal belt, as the country's military wages a major offensive against insurgent hideouts.

The attack came in North Waziristan, where for the past month the Pakistani military has been fighting to wipe out longstanding bases of Taliban and other militants.

"A US drone fired two missiles targeting a militant compound in Zoi Saidgai area, killing at least 18 insurgents," a senior security official in Miranshah, the main town of North Waziristan, told AFP.

The official said there had been reports of militants moving to Zoi Saidgai from Miranshah and Mir Ali, the other main town in the area, after the start of the army operation.

Another security official said as many as 20 people may have been killed in the strike, 12 of them Uzbeks.

He said the attack took place around 2:00 am (2100 GMT) while an important meeting was going on in the compound.

In a statement issued to the media, the military claimed of killing 35 terrorists in separate incident of aerial strikes.

"Today early morning 35 fleeing terrorists were killed through aerial strikes in Shawal Valley," it said.

US Drone Strike Kills 18 in North Western Pakistan - NDTV


The Taliban are runnin' like rats. Some are shaving their beards and cutting their hair as they flee Pakistani troops and Obama's Hellfire's.

Do you seriously think Muslims won't kill Muslims? That is happening in Syria where there is no U.S. or western soldiers same with Iraq what makes you think Afghanistan will be different ?

 

[NotfooledbyW]

Do you seriously think Muslims won't kill Muslims? That is happening in Syria where there is no U.S. or western soldiers same with Iraq what makes you think Afghanistan will be different ?

I know Muslims will kill Muslims, but that was not the point. The point is that the Taliban will lose much of its appeal to new recruits when they lose the appeal of killing non-Muslim invaders as the main motivation.

 

[blackhawk]

Do you seriously think Muslims won't kill Muslims? That is happening in Syria where there is no U.S. or western soldiers same with Iraq what makes you think Afghanistan will be different ?

I know Muslims will kill Muslims, but that was not the point. The point is that the Taliban will lose much of its appeal to new recruits when they lose the appeal of killing non-Muslim invaders as the main motivation.

They didn't after the Russians were driven out of Afghanistan I think we are going to see history repeat it's self I would be happy to be proven wrong but I don't think I will be.

 

[ron4342]

Yes, Obama has really got the bad guys shitscared.
Ask any camel jockey Islamic filth right before he blows up some women and kids. He'll tell ya…

Idiot...

He has certainly got some "Islamic filth" scared. Don't believe me?Ask the Somoli pirates who were holding Captian Phillips if they are scared? Ask bin Laden if he is scared? Ask the president of Syria if he was scared about Obama attacking Syria to destroy their poison gas? Ask all the al Qaida and Taliban members who have been killed by drones if they are scared. Ask Kadaffi if he was scared.
If gwb had as much success as Obama has had you would have tears of joy running down your leg and be demanding bush's face be put on the $20 bill.

 

[9thIDdoc]

Obama? Success? Don't know of any!

 

[NotfooledbyW]

They didn't after the Russians were driven out of Afghanistan I think we are going to see history repeat it's self I would be happy to be proven wrong but I don't think I will be.

There was no central government with a standing Afghan army and police in the 1990s when the Taliban emerged with foreign support as defacto rulers of Afghanistan. So there is no chance of actual history repeating itself in the future.

Pakistan is not providing them with weapons and support as they did following the Soviet departure; they are killing them and clearing the tribal regions of them.

 

[blackhawk]

They didn't after the Russians were driven out of Afghanistan I think we are going to see history repeat it's self I would be happy to be proven wrong but I don't think I will be.

There was no central government with a standing Afghan army and police in the 1990s when the Taliban emerged with foreign support as defacto rulers of Afghanistan. So there is no chance of actual history repeating itself in the future.

Pakistan is not providing them with weapons and support as they did following the Soviet departure; they are killing them and clearing the tribal regions of them.

I think your giving that standing army and police force to much credit to soon we saw what happened with the Iraqi army and police force after we left and Pakistan's loyalties can change as quick as the wind. The deal with Pakistan is people within the government may oppose the Taliban but many in the military and ISI are sympathetic I know this was about Bin Laden and not the Taliban but there was a reason the U.S. did not inform them about the Bin Laden.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

Obama? Success? Don't know of any!

That you don't know of something that exists does not mean it does not exist. Twelve years ago there were no uniformed Afghan military and police security forces in Afghanistan. They did not exist. Today there are over 300,000 fighting the insurgency on their own such as this battle today.

Hesarak district chief, Haji Abdul Khaliq, said nearly one thousand Taliban militants had taken part in the offensive on Afghan security forces check posts.

Mr. Khaliq further added Taliban militants were pushed back after additional forces were deployed in the area to assist the Afghan police forces.

He said around 70 to 100 Taliban militants were killed or injured during the clashes which ended on Tuesday afternoon.
According to Khaliq, several Pakistani militants had also taken in the part in the Taliban offensive.

Clashes end in Nangarhar, nearly 60 Taliban militants killed - Khaama Press (KP) | Afghan News Agency



The Afghan security forces exist. That is an Afghanistan and US Military and NATO and ISAF success. Sorry to impact your Know-Nothing status.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

I think your giving that standing army and police force to much credit to soon we saw what happened with the Iraqi army and police force after we left...

What happened to the entire Iraqi Army after we left?

Why don't you ask what's happening to the IS terrorists that invaded Iraq last month?

Salah il-Din (IraqiNews.com) The security forces killed 40 ISIL terrorists and burnt 10 of their vehicles of southern Samara.

Colonel, Qindeel al-Jobouri stated to IraqiNews.com “The Iraqi Air Force bombarded the ISIL terrorists to kill 40 of them and burn 10 of their vehicles in Dhilo’aya district of southern Samara.” /End/

40 ISIL terrorists killed, 10 vehicles destroyed southern Samara - Iraqi News

750,000 Iraq soldiers are expected to fight and defend. I think your giving the IS terrorists way too much credit way too soon.

 

[Mojo2]

Was going after OBL the only reason Bush told loyal red blooded patriotic Americans why we were taking military action in Afghanistan in 2002?

You tell me.

Of course it was not. For purposes of discussion I hoped to see in your own words what you think was the military objective and why you supported it from the start?

To bring OBL to justice or bring justice to OBL.

To remove/reduce Afghanistan from the list of places where 9/11 style attacks can be mounted with impunity.

To reduce or eliminate the amount of terrorism in the world by anyone, but SPECIFICALLY from Islamists.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

and Pakistan's loyalties can change as quick as the wind. The deal with Pakistan is people within the government may oppose the Taliban but many in the military and ISI are sympathetic

Really?

The Pakistani military know they need energy supplies we must presume.

Vital energy supplies: TAPI pipeline – a project that is still alive
14 July 2014

PESHAWAR: Owing to severe energy crisis in Pakistan and delay in gas pipeline project with Iran because of international pressure, the demand for Turkmenistan-Afghanistan-Pakistan-India (TAPI) gas supply project has increased tremendously.

The project was started in 1995 but due to instability in Afghanistan it could not be pushed through for the last 19 years. However, this 1,735km pipeline with a maximum discharge of 33 billion cubic metres of gas per year is still feasible and supported by both Pakistan and Turkmenistan with a memorandum of understanding signed in 2010.

In April, Turkmenistan President Gurbanguly Berdimuhamedov demanded that all agreements required for launching the TAPI pipeline should be completed by the end of this year and construction will begin in 2015.
Pakistan’s Ambassador to Turkmenistan Tasadduq Hussain, while commenting on the security of the pipeline in the first week of May, highlighted the efforts made to persuade the Turkmenistan government.
He cited the experience of gas and electricity supply to northern Afghanistan from Turkmenistan over the past few years without any security threat. He stressed the need for adopting the same mechanism and formula for gas supply to Pakistan.

Hussain also commented that if gas, which would come from Turkmenistan to Pakistan via Afghanistan, was provided on low tariffs to the people in specific areas of Afghanistan, then in return they were expected to promise security for the pipeline. This will ease energy shortages and ensure economic prosperity not only in Afghanistan but also in Pakistan.

“We are waiting for the outcome of national elections in Afghanistan before launching and completing the TAPI pipeline, the cost of which has increased substantially from $2 billion to $8 billion,” he said.

However, in the meantime, Turkmenistan has signed various gas supply agreements with China, but it is still committed to the TAPI pipeline.

The writer is general manager of FM-93 and FM-94 Radio Dilber Charsadda and Swabi Network.

Vital energy supplies: TAPI pipeline ? a project that is still alive

 

[NotfooledbyW]

I think your giving that standing army and police force to much credit to soon

Too Soon? This type of report has been coming out every week for a couple of years.

07/30/14 Tolonews: Taliban Shadow Governor Killed in Helmand
Taliban's shadow district governor Mullah Nasir has been killed in Sangin district during an Afghan National Security Forces (ANSF) operation in Helmand province. Helmand's Governor Spokesman, Mohammad Omar Zawak, said that the operation was launched on Monday and so far nearly 21 kilometers of Sangin district has been cleared of insurgents.


07/30/14 KP: Senior Taliban leaders among 20 killed in Helmand operations
At least 20 Taliban militants were killed following military operations by Afghan national security forces in southern Helmand province of Afghanistan. According to local government officials, a senior Taliban commander recognized as Shahwali and Taliban’s shadow governor for Sangin district were among 20 militants killed during the operations.


07/30/14 BNA: Fifty-Five Afghan and Pakistani Taliban Killed in Nangarhar Clashes

in recent clashes in Nangarhar province, hundreds of Afghan and Pakistani Taliban were killed and wounded. In the clashes, six security forces were also martyred and eight others wounded. The clashes started when hundreds of Afghan and Pakistani Taliban attacked on security posts in Hesarak district.

iCasualties | Operation Enduring Freedom | Afghanistan

 

[NotfooledbyW]

Apparently there is no anti-Obama challenge to this:

"The Pakistani military know they need energy supplies we must presume."

That means to secure the TAPI the lawless terrorist sanctuary needs to be cleared by Pakistani government forces.

The Taliban are losing their sanctuary and that does not bode well for the Taliban's long term future.

 

[EconChick]

Good lord I'm talking about a REEEEEEEEEEEEEEAL SOFA. This SOFA said NO TROOPS.

Are you saying the 2008 SOFA covered zero US troops serving inside Iraq during 2009 and 2010. The truth is there were about 140,000 troops serving in Iraq during January 2009. The SOFA Bush negotiated in 2008 was to protect them and it had to be approved by Iraq'd parliament.

Why did you claim that it did not go through parliament and Obama was the one that insisted upon it in 2011?

Iraq's Chief Justice insisted on it not Obama. Your entire rant against Obama is a farce and you only make it more of a farce when you try to convince us that there were no US troops serving in Iraq in 2009 and 2010.

OK, now that Iraq's back in the news and I've finished squashing libs on the shitty economic news, I have time to come back to this, Notfooled.

N, you really need to read the SOFA. You also need to read analysis of it.

Better yet, go find a copy of the PBS special called "Losing Iraq" which explains things EXACTLY like I kept telling you!! To my shock, even PBS was unequivocal that Obama lost Iraq.

What you keep confusing are the troops that were currently there ....and the immunity issues relevant to them...........and the supposed 30,000 or so troops that would be left there after Dec 2011.

What I kept talking about was immunity for the Residual forces that were being planned to be left there. Between 30-50K were originally talked about. Even 10K probably would've been enough to at least hold the gains we had worked so hard for.


What you keep harping on were the troops that were already there. What you don't seem to understand that enough ambiguity had been written into the SOFA for THEM that there was really no worry about immunity issues, except if someone did something really fucking egregious. And even in that case the Bush team had written enough language to get us out of that conundrum.

Soooooooooo when people talk about immunity that O didn't fight for....was for the Residual force that even Maliki expected to be left until O just decided one day to remove ALL of them.

Watch the PBS special and you'll see what I've been trying to explain on this thread and on the 295 people dead on mh11 thread.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

G