Tax Cuts Steal Democracy

[The Derp]

Yea why is that you point to Kansas yet New York State doing the same thing massive tax cuts to bussines.. Heck they even run commercials down here in the south

New York State's tax credits are paid for. New York is also a "maker state" in that it contributes more to the Treasury than it receives. Also, New York didn't dramatically cut taxes on pass-through income like Kansas did.

 

[The Derp]

I never claimed tax cuts generate revenue

So if they don't generate revenue, don't generate increased economic activity, result in deficits and household debt, why even do them at all?

We were promised that tax cuts would generate all this magical revenue, there wouldn't be a need to cut spending because look at all the revenues! That was the bargain. If you are now saying that they do not generate revenue, then the only thing they actually do is create deficits. Because, math.

 

[Skull Pilot]

I never claimed tax cuts generate revenue

So if they don't generate revenue, don't generate increased economic activity, result in deficits and household debt, why even do them at all?

We were promised that tax cuts would generate all this magical revenue, there wouldn't be a need to cut spending because look at all the revenues! That was the bargain. If you are now saying that they do not generate revenue, then the only thing they actually do is create deficits. Because, math.

why?

letting people keep more of their own money isn't a good enough reason for you?

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Yeah, Putin sucks. Why did Obama promise to be more flexible? Stupidity?

What flexibility did he promise? And didn't he say that to Putin before Putin invaded Ukraine? That hot mic from Obama was in 2012. Putin invaded Ukraine in 2014. So Obama made a promise but that was probably with the understanding Putin wouldn't, you know, invade and annex Eastern Ukraine. And until they prove otherwise, the GOP is tied to Putin and Russia.

Yup. Took them a while, but they learned from the Dems. Finally. And don't forget the VRA.

So the defense is..."they did it too! waaaah!" Childish and SAD! BTW - California now has an independent commission that does the redistricting so as to avoid partisan gerrymandering. So if you guys are going to let liberals do the leading when it comes to the progression of fair redistricting, you can't really rely on that childish argument of monkey see, monkey do.

Because they changed their primary system.

Yes, they did a jungle primary. Which means anyone can vote for any candidate. Even with that, Conservatives still couldn't muster enough votes to get into a runoff with the Democrats. Kamala Harris and Loretta Sanchez were #1 & 2 in the jungle primary. Both are Democrats.

Unless you're claiming collusion. And you are.

It doesn't matter who had the idea, if they came to it together or not. But the point is that they were working together.

So there was no actual impact on the election. That's why your pathetic whining is so funny.

Wait - how do you figure that? There was certainly an effect on the election because the information from the DNC hack was disseminated via Russian Active Measures. Just like you're doing here, trying to conflate the DNC hack with Hillary's e-mail server. The two have nothing to do with one another.

So what the opposition is always working to expose what a politician has to hide. The lesson is don't have things to hide and don't expect sympathy based on who exposed you.

 

[The Derp]

No what happened in Kansas is expected and the extreme.

At the time, Brownback claimed the tax cuts would be "a shot of adrenaline into the Kansas economy" and "“My focus is to create a red-state model that allows the Republican ticket to say, ‘See, we’ve got a different way, and it works.’ ”"

Mitch McConnell echoed that rhetoric in 2012, saying "This is exactly the sort of thing we (Republicans) want to do here, in Washington, but can’t, at least for now.”"

So when you say what they did in Kansas was "extreme", you're not actually correct. What they did in Kansas was what the mainstream Conservatives and Republican Party wants to do nationally, by their own admission. So let's see how Kansas did after 4 years of Brownback tax cuts:

GDP growth below all its neighbors
Job growth below the national average
GDP growth below the national average
Business creation below the national average
The erasing of a $1B surplus into massive deficits
Public school closures due to lack of funding
Increased sales and excise taxes
Increased tuition for public colleges & universities
Raiding of the state highway fund
Raiding of the welfare block grant
Two credit downgrades
49th in wage growth
The only state to see an increase in its uninsured rate post-ACA

This is the Conservative agenda and what we can expect if the "extreme" plan is the one Conservatives want for the nation.

 

[The Derp]

I do even the liberals in New York State knows tax cuts generate revenue

So, one of your fellow Russian trolls admitted they don't generate revenue. So you'll actually need to prove this by posting the revenue numbers for NY State pre- and post-tax cut.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Yeah, Putin sucks. Why did Obama promise to be more flexible? Stupidity?

What flexibility did he promise? And didn't he say that to Putin before Putin invaded Ukraine? That hot mic from Obama was in 2012. Putin invaded Ukraine in 2014. So Obama made a promise but that was probably with the understanding Putin wouldn't, you know, invade and annex Eastern Ukraine. And until they prove otherwise, the GOP is tied to Putin and Russia.

Yup. Took them a while, but they learned from the Dems. Finally. And don't forget the VRA.

So the defense is..."they did it too! waaaah!" Childish and SAD! BTW - California now has an independent commission that does the redistricting so as to avoid partisan gerrymandering. So if you guys are going to let liberals do the leading when it comes to the progression of fair redistricting, you can't really rely on that childish argument of monkey see, monkey do.

Because they changed their primary system.

Yes, they did a jungle primary. Which means anyone can vote for any candidate. Even with that, Conservatives still couldn't muster enough votes to get into a runoff with the Democrats. Kamala Harris and Loretta Sanchez were #1 & 2 in the jungle primary. Both are Democrats.

Unless you're claiming collusion. And you are.

It doesn't matter who had the idea, if they came to it together or not. But the point is that they were working together.

So there was no actual impact on the election. That's why your pathetic whining is so funny.

Wait - how do you figure that? There was certainly an effect on the election because the information from the DNC hack was disseminated via Russian Active Measures. Just like you're doing here, trying to conflate the DNC hack with Hillary's e-mail server. The two have nothing to do with one another.

What flexibility did he promise?

If Putin didn't push on missile defense before Nov 2012, Obama would give him what he wanted...after 2012.

And didn't he say that to Putin before Putin invaded Ukraine?

Russia showed they were a threat....after Obama mocked that idea? Was Obama stupid?

So the defense is..."they did it too! waaaah!"

No the defense is, "fuck you Dems, how do you like it now?"

Yes, they did a jungle primary. Which means anyone can vote for any candidate.

Yup. Which means your 20 million votes is closer to 8 million.

It doesn't matter who had the idea, if they came to it together or not.

If the Russians did it on their own, how is there collusion?

But the point is that they were working together.

Trump helped with the hack? LOL!

There was certainly an effect on the election because the information from the DNC hack was disseminated via Russian Active Measures.

Either exposure of DNC and HRC corruption had an effect or it didn't. If it didn't, stop whining.
If it did, defend the idea that corruption should remain hidden from the public.

Just like you're doing here, trying to conflate the DNC hack with Hillary's e-mail server. The two have nothing to do with one another

Didn't say they did. Her server was just more proof of her feeling that laws are for little people.
What better way to hide her Foundation bribes from FOIA searches than controlling, and deleting, those emails?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

I never claimed tax cuts generate revenue

So if they don't generate revenue, don't generate increased economic activity, result in deficits and household debt, why even do them at all?

We were promised that tax cuts would generate all this magical revenue, there wouldn't be a need to cut spending because look at all the revenues! That was the bargain. If you are now saying that they do not generate revenue, then the only thing they actually do is create deficits. Because, math.

So if they don't generate revenue, don't generate increased economic activity

New York cut business taxes because they don't increase economic activity? Are you sure?

 

[The Derp]

why?letting people keep more of their own money isn't a good enough reason for you?

Wait, wait, wait...hold on a second. We have to back up to the economic reasons behind your policy. If you are now abandoning the economic arguments for tax cuts and taking an emotional approach, then you are tacitly admitting that the policy is flawed on its economics. If it is flawed on its economics, any emotional or philosophical argument you make is null and void. Bad policy is bad policy, no matter the emotions behind it.

 

[The Derp]

So what the opposition is always working to expose what a politician has to hide. The lesson is don't have things to hide and don't expect sympathy based on who exposed you.

Exactly, so Trump should release his tax returns.

 

[Skull Pilot]

why?letting people keep more of their own money isn't a good enough reason for you?

Wait, wait, wait...hold on a second. We have to back up to the economic reasons behind your policy. If you are now abandoning the economic arguments for tax cuts and taking an emotional approach, then you are tacitly admitting that the policy is flawed on its economics. If it is flawed on its economics, any emotional or philosophical argument you make is null and void. Bad policy is bad policy, no matter the emotions behind it.

I never made any economic argument for tax cuts did I?

all I said was tax cuts don't cause deficits spending more than the revenue you collect causes deficits

 

[The Derp]

If Putin didn't push on missile defense before Nov 2012, Obama would give him what he wanted...after 2012.

But he did push on missile defense and he invaded Ukraine. Soooooo.....Putin is not to be trusted. OK, thanks for catching up with the rest of 2012. It's like suddenly discovering health care is complex! Egads!

IRussia showed they were a threat....after Obama mocked that idea? Was Obama stupid?

Again, you are trying to bend "threat" to fit into your narrative. You seem to be implying they are a general threat, but that understanding is barely skin deep. The threats Russia poses are cyber. Russia isn't going to invade the United States. They're not going to send aircraft carriers to the bay area. They're not going to start carpet bombing Texas. They know their military can't face off against ours. So they pose a threat in a very different way; cyber. The Defense Department lists the three biggest threats to the US: Climate Change, Cyber Warfare, Pandemic. An F-35 is not going to protect us from those things. A stealth destroyer isn't going to protect us from those things and it's silly to think they will. The only reason we have those weapons now is because the Defense Department is a massive welfare program for red state Republicans. After all, they're the ones who fight to keep plants open when the Pentagon says they don't need what those plants produce.

No the defense is, "fuck you Dems, how do you like it now?"

That's not much a defense. And Demcorats put redistricting in the hands of independent commissions. Are Conservatives too scared to do that? They sure seem scared of a lot of things...

Yup. Which means your 20 million votes is closer to 8 million.

So, again, you conflate the California jungle primary with the aggregate Senate vote total of all the races. You're not really on my level here because you don't really seem to understand or follow what is being discussed (whether that is intentional or not remains to be seen). This tends to happen to Russian trolls who are forced off-script. Now, we can expect to see your posts degrade in syntax, grammar, and probably spelling too.

If the Russians did it on their own, how is there collusion?

Look man, if you cannot comprehend posts that you read, then why are you even posting here? I'm looking for a debate, not a flame war.

Trump helped with the hack? LOL!

Possibly! We don't know until the investigation is done. At this point, with all the contact already existing between Russian spies and Trump's people, it would be hard to believe Trump had no contact or knowledge this was happening. It is intriguing that he would call for Russia to hack Clinton the day after news broke of the hack, on the campaign trail.

Either exposure of DNC and HRC corruption had an effect or it didn't. If it didn't, stop whining. If it did, defend the idea that corruption should remain hidden from the public.

I don't get your argument here. You are saying the ends justify the means? Party-before-country, much?

Didn't say they did.

Then why are you conflating them?

 

[The Derp]

I never made any economic argument for tax cuts did I?

So if there is no economic argument for them, why even do them at all?

 

[The Derp]

[all I said was tax cuts don't cause deficits spending more than the revenue you collect causes deficits

Tax cuts do cause deficits because, math.

 

[The Derp]

New York cut business taxes because they don't increase economic activity? Are you sure?

Are you? Show me the money!

 

[Skull Pilot]

I never made any economic argument for tax cuts did I?

So if there is no economic argument for them, why even do them at all?

I gave you a reason , actually , I gave you THE best reason

let people keep more of their own money

is that not a good enough reason?

 

[Skull Pilot]

[all I said was tax cuts don't cause deficits spending more than the revenue you collect causes deficits

Tax cuts do cause deficits because, math.

SPENDING causes deficits

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

If Putin didn't push on missile defense before Nov 2012, Obama would give him what he wanted...after 2012.

But he did push on missile defense and he invaded Ukraine. Soooooo.....Putin is not to be trusted. OK, thanks for catching up with the rest of 2012. It's like suddenly discovering health care is complex! Egads!

IRussia showed they were a threat....after Obama mocked that idea? Was Obama stupid?

Again, you are trying to bend "threat" to fit into your narrative. You seem to be implying they are a general threat, but that understanding is barely skin deep. The threats Russia poses are cyber. Russia isn't going to invade the United States. They're not going to send aircraft carriers to the bay area. They're not going to start carpet bombing Texas. They know their military can't face off against ours. So they pose a threat in a very different way; cyber. The Defense Department lists the three biggest threats to the US: Climate Change, Cyber Warfare, Pandemic. An F-35 is not going to protect us from those things. A stealth destroyer isn't going to protect us from those things and it's silly to think they will. The only reason we have those weapons now is because the Defense Department is a massive welfare program for red state Republicans. After all, they're the ones who fight to keep plants open when the Pentagon says they don't need what those plants produce.

No the defense is, "fuck you Dems, how do you like it now?"

That's not much a defense. And Demcorats put redistricting in the hands of independent commissions. Are Conservatives too scared to do that? They sure seem scared of a lot of things...

Yup. Which means your 20 million votes is closer to 8 million.

So, again, you conflate the California jungle primary with the aggregate Senate vote total of all the races. You're not really on my level here because you don't really seem to understand or follow what is being discussed (whether that is intentional or not remains to be seen). This tends to happen to Russian trolls who are forced off-script. Now, we can expect to see your posts degrade in syntax, grammar, and probably spelling too.

If the Russians did it on their own, how is there collusion?

Look man, if you cannot comprehend posts that you read, then why are you even posting here? I'm looking for a debate, not a flame war.

Trump helped with the hack? LOL!

Possibly! We don't know until the investigation is done. At this point, with all the contact already existing between Russian spies and Trump's people, it would be hard to believe Trump had no contact or knowledge this was happening. It is intriguing that he would call for Russia to hack Clinton the day after news broke of the hack, on the campaign trail.

Either exposure of DNC and HRC corruption had an effect or it didn't. If it didn't, stop whining. If it did, defend the idea that corruption should remain hidden from the public.

I don't get your argument here. You are saying the ends justify the means? Party-before-country, much?

Didn't say they did.

Then why are you conflating them?

But he did push on missile defense and he invaded Ukraine. Soooooo.....Putin is not to be trusted.

Hillary's "reset" and Obama's flexibility were failures. Good to know.

You seem to be implying they are a general threat, but that understanding is barely skin deep. The threats Russia poses are cyber.

Ukraine begs to differ.

The Defense Department lists the three biggest threats to the US: Climate Change

I'm glad we'll be done with stupid claims like that.

That's not much a defense.

Yet it's true.

So, again, you conflate the California jungle primary with the aggregate Senate vote total of all the races

I simply show that 12 million of your aggregate total was from a race with no Republicans.
So how many non-California Senate seats should Dems get from those 12 million California votes?

I'll bet the answer is zero. What do I win?

Look man, if you cannot comprehend posts that you read,

If you can't answer the question, just say so.

Possibly! We don't know until the investigation is done.

It's possible Trump helped with the hack? LOL!

At this point, with all the contact already existing between Russian spies and Trump's people,

Which spies? You have a list?

It is intriguing that he would call for Russia to hack Clinton

Trump said "Please hack Clinton"?
Is English your second language? Post what he said, I'll point out your error.

I don't get your argument here. You are saying the ends justify the means?

I don't get your argument here. You are saying hide the corruption? The people shouldn't know?

Then why are you conflating them?

I can't conflate them when I never mentioned her illegal, unsecured server until now.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

New York cut business taxes because they don't increase economic activity? Are you sure?

Are you? Show me the money!

New York State is still running ads telling firms to move to New York,

START-UP NY offers new and expanding businesses the opportunity to operate tax-free for 10 years on or near eligible university or college campuses in New York State.

START-UP NY Grow Your Business

If I start a business in New York under this program, will New York see more or less economic activity?

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

[all I said was tax cuts don't cause deficits spending more than the revenue you collect causes deficits

Tax cuts do cause deficits because, math.

SPENDING causes deficits

Democrats cause deficits because they refuse to make them illegal.