Tax Cuts Steal Democracy

[EdwardBaiamonte]

You said when Switzerland and Ireland drop their tax rate to 12% and tens of thousands of corporations from all over the world moves there it was not a positive thing.

What I said was that it didn't create any jobs. If you take that to mean "bad thing" then so be it.

If it didn't create the 130 thousand jobs that you admitted to are you saying that Ireland did it and it was a total mistake? In they keep on doing it because it's a total mistake in the EU is fighting it desperately because they to miss understand the value of having thousands and thousands of corporations move to your state

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Totally Marxist ignorance I had a fifth-grade teacher who assured us that they had a lightbulb that would last forever and automobile tires that would last forever but they were not brought to market because it would put the companies out of business And we all believed it is fifth-graders I'm hoping for you that you are a fifth grader?

Sorry, comrade, but you're completely wrong. And now you've kinda gone off the reservation a bit, spiraling the debate away from the main focus which was that tax cuts in Ireland did not translate to jobs here.

I like the way you run away when you lose yet another debate

 

[The Derp]

If it didn't create the 130 thousand jobs that you admitted to are you saying that Ireland did it and it was a total mistake?

130,000 jobs created over what period of time? Guess what? It wasn't 5-6 years, it was 11 years. Ireland's 12.5% corporate rate started in 2006. It's now 2017. So in 11 years of a 12.5% corporate tax rate, 130,000 jobs were created. That is just 11,000 jobs a year, about 1,000 jobs a month. By contrast, Obama created that many jobs in seven days. So what Ireland took 11 years to accomplish, Obama accomplished in 7 days this past January.

That number of jobs Ireland created isn't even enough to keep up with population growth. Which is why their unemployment rate is 6.4% and ours is 4.5%.

 

[The Derp]

I like the way you run away when you lose yet another debate

Russian Active Measure (projection); accuse others of that which you do in order to avoid answering for bad policy.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

I like the way you run away when you lose yet another debate

Russian Active Measure (projection); accuse others of that which you do in order to avoid answering for bad policy.

You said capitalism didn't generate pressure to create better and better products and better and better drugs. Of course if that were true we all be living back in the Stone Age rather than going forward with miracle products and miracle drugs see why

 

[BuckToothMoron]

Tax Cuts do a lot of things; increase deficits, explode debts, hurt wage growth...but in concert with unlimited campaign contributions, they actually steal our democracy. The average politician spends about 80% of their time raising money. And from whom are they generally raising the most money? From wealthy donors. And what benefits wealthy donors? Tax cuts. Here are some handy charts showing the extent of the theft of wealth and democracy by the 1% and their Conservative and Neo-Liberal enablers. Since the Reagan tax cuts, working people’s share of the benefits from increased productivity took a sudden turn down:

This resulted in intense concentration of wealth at the top:

And forced working people to spend down savings to get by:

Which forced working people to go into debt: (total household debt as percentage of GDP)

None of which has helped economic growth much: (12-quarter rolling average nominal GDP growth.):

So the conclusion? Trump and the Conservatives' "tax reform" is just more of the same we've heard from them since 1980, and is just a thinly veiled attempt to redistribute wealth from the middle and bottom to the top.

While I agree we have a serious issue with the growing wealth gap, which is not unprecedented btw, the question is how much of the tax burden should be paid by top earners. Let's be clear, it is literally impossible to give a significant tax break to the bottom 50% since they pay nearly nothing already. They are net receivers.

• In 2013, 138.3 million taxpayers reported earning $9.03 trillion in adjusted gross income and paid $1.23 trillion in income taxes.
• Every income group besides the top 1 percent of taxpayers reported higher income in 2013 than the previous year. All income groups paid higher taxes in 2013 than the previous year.
• The share of income earned by the top 1 percent of taxpayers fell to 19.0 percent in 2013. Their share of federal income taxes fell slightly to 37.8 percent.
• In 2012, the top 50 percent of all taxpayers (69.2 million filers) paid 97.2 percent of all income taxes while the bottom 50 percent paid the remaining 2.8 percent.
• The top 1 percent (1.3 million filers) paid a greater share of income taxes (37.8 percent) than the bottom 90 percent (124.5 million filers) combined (30.2 percent).
• The top 1 percent of taxpayers paid a higher effective income tax rate than any other group, at 27.1 percent, which is over 8 times higher than taxpayers in the bottom 50 percent (3.3 percent).

No simple solution. You can't give tax breaks to people who don't pay taxes, and if you over tax the people who do you will disincentives them to earn more and thus reduce the overall tax revenues.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

If it didn't create the 130 thousand jobs that you admitted to are you saying that Ireland did it and it was a total mistake?

130,000 jobs created over what period of time? Guess what? It wasn't 5-6 years, it was 11 years. Ireland's 12.5% corporate rate started in 2006. It's now 2017. So in 11 years of a 12.5% corporate tax rate, 130,000 jobs were created. That is just 11,000 jobs a year, about 1,000 jobs a month. By contrast, Obama created that many jobs in seven days. So what Ireland took 11 years to accomplish, Obama accomplished in 7 days this past January.

That number of jobs Ireland created isn't even enough to keep up with population growth. Which is why their unemployment rate is 6.4% and ours is 4.5%.

So then Ireland got it backwards when they drop their corporate rate to 12% in the EU was getting it backwards by vigorously protesting the low corporate rate and all the governors in all 50 states who would consider it a good thing when corporations moved to their states got it backwards and if you poll businessman they would say they actually like higher taxes and will move to where taxes are highest this is what the Marxist would have us believe. This is identical to saying that a business will always move to where the wages are higher asked because then it gets to raise its prices and the higher the price of the merchandise it sells the more of that merchandise it will sell this is actually what a Marxist would have us believe

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Tax Cuts do a lot of things; increase deficits, explode debts, hurt wage growth...but in concert with unlimited campaign contributions, they actually steal our democracy. The average politician spends about 80% of their time raising money. And from whom are they generally raising the most money? From wealthy donors. And what benefits wealthy donors? Tax cuts. Here are some handy charts showing the extent of the theft of wealth and democracy by the 1% and their Conservative and Neo-Liberal enablers. Since the Reagan tax cuts, working people’s share of the benefits from increased productivity took a sudden turn down:

This resulted in intense concentration of wealth at the top:

And forced working people to spend down savings to get by:

Which forced working people to go into debt: (total household debt as percentage of GDP)

None of which has helped economic growth much: (12-quarter rolling average nominal GDP growth.):

So the conclusion? Trump and the Conservatives' "tax reform" is just more of the same we've heard from them since 1980, and is just a thinly veiled attempt to redistribute wealth from the middle and bottom to the top.

While I agree we have a serious issue with the growing wealth gap, which is not unprecedented btw, the question is how much of the tax burden should be paid by top earners. Let's be clear, it is literally impossible to give a significant tax break to the bottom 50% since they pay nearly nothing already. They are net receivers.

• In 2013, 138.3 million taxpayers reported earning $9.03 trillion in adjusted gross income and paid $1.23 trillion in income taxes.
• Every income group besides the top 1 percent of taxpayers reported higher income in 2013 than the previous year. All income groups paid higher taxes in 2013 than the previous year.
• The share of income earned by the top 1 percent of taxpayers fell to 19.0 percent in 2013. Their share of federal income taxes fell slightly to 37.8 percent.
• In 2012, the top 50 percent of all taxpayers (69.2 million filers) paid 97.2 percent of all income taxes while the bottom 50 percent paid the remaining 2.8 percent.
• The top 1 percent (1.3 million filers) paid a greater share of income taxes (37.8 percent) than the bottom 90 percent (124.5 million filers) combined (30.2 percent).
• The top 1 percent of taxpayers paid a higher effective income tax rate than any other group, at 27.1 percent, which is over 8 times higher than taxpayers in the bottom 50 percent (3.3 percent).

No simple solution. You can't give tax breaks to people who don't pay taxes, and if you over tax the people who do you will disincentives them to earn more and thus reduce the overall tax revenues.

Impossible to get a tax break to the lower 50% we managed to give them free housing free education free healthcare free roads etc. etc. so they get way more than their fair share They have become freeloaders without understanding is that this can only make our country weaker and weaker

 

[The Derp]

You said capitalism didn't generate pressure to create better and better products and better and better drugs.

Not what I said. This is you creating a straw man.

 

[The Derp]

While I agree we have a serious issue with the growing wealth gap, which is not unprecedented btw, the question is how much of the tax burden should be paid by top earners. Let's be clear, it is literally impossible to give a significant tax break to the bottom 50% since they pay nearly nothing already. They are net receivers.
No simple solution. You can't give tax breaks to people who don't pay taxes, and if you over tax the people who do you will disincentives them to earn more and thus reduce the overall tax revenues.

Well, here's the thing; back before trickle-down, when the tax rate on the top was 70%, the tax burden was far more equitable than it is today. But over the last 37 years, as you correctly point out, taxes have been cut, cut, cut to the point where nearly half of all workers don't "pay" taxes. So while the tax burden may have increased on the 1% as a result of the very tax cut policies they support, the tax amount they pay is far, far less than they used to as the top tax rate has gone down from 70% in 1980 to 39.6% today. So I'm not sure what the 1% are whining about. They pay nearly half as much in taxes, despite paying a larger burden. If this disturbs them, then they should stop supporting tax cutting policies, since it was those policies specifically that caused the tax burden to be what it is now.

Their entire argument on this subject is wholly masturbatory; tax cuts result in an unbalanced tax burden, the solution to that is to...cut taxes further? Which then results in a larger tax burden, which causes them to screech, which leads to them proposing the same policies that created the condition they are screeching about in the first place! It's masturbation; creating a problem then complaining about the problem created, and proposing a solution that caused the problem they are complaining about in the first place. Masturbation.

 

[The Derp]

So then Ireland got it backwards when they drop their corporate rate to 12%

No, Ireland did nothing than funnel about 0.4% of wealth to the 1% and their pet corporations. For this, we got nothing.

 

[The Derp]

Impossible to get a tax break to the lower 50% we managed to give them free housing free education free healthcare free roads etc. etc. so they get way more than their fair share They have become freeloaders without understanding is that this can only make our country weaker and weaker

Channeling his inner Romney here. Most of those people who are freeloaders live in red states, as most red states are taker states that take more than they contribute. They subsidize low tax rates by raiding the welfare block grant and other federal programs. So quite literally, the right uses welfare to pay for tax cuts. Which would make them the biggest freeloading welfare queens of all.

 

[ScienceRocks]

The kind of tax cuts the republicans want are a fucking joke...Pretty much aimed at the same people that pay next to shit anyways because of loopholes, outsourcing, offshoring and dirty tricks.


It won't benefit 90% of this country not one fucking ounce but it will surly expand the debt as our ability to pay down what we currently owe will be slashed. Yep, all while cutting the shit out of areas that maintain our economy, lol. Republicans are so stupid.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

So then Ireland got it backwards when they drop their corporate rate to 12%

No, Ireland did nothing than funnel about 0.4% of wealth to the 1% and their pet corporations. For this, we got nothing.

Got nothing? Ourcorporations were freed From the huge burden or cost imposed on them by liberal Marxists. Plus going to low text jurisdictions give them away to compete against other multinational corporation's from low-wage and low regulation countries. Thank God for Ireland and other tax havens

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Impossible to get a tax break to the lower 50% we managed to give them free housing free education free healthcare free roads etc. etc. so they get way more than their fair share They have become freeloaders without understanding is that this can only make our country weaker and weaker

Channeling his inner Romney here. Most of those people who are freeloaders live in red states, as most red states are taker states that take more than they contribute. They subsidize low tax rates by raiding the welfare block grant and other federal programs. So quite literally, the right uses welfare to pay for tax cuts. Which would make them the biggest freeloading welfare queens of all.

It doesn't matter where they live the point is that the lower 50% get a huge tax breaks to the extent that they think mooching is normal if they had to pay for their housing medical care education they would think twice about having so many children and be far more thankful for what the top 1% do for them

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

The kind of tax cuts the republicans want are a fucking joke...Pretty much aimed at the same people that pay next to shit anyways because of loopholes, outsourcing, offshoring and dirty tricks.


It won't benefit 90% of this country not one fucking ounce but it will surly expand the debt as our ability to pay down what we currently owe will be slashed. Yep, all while cutting the shit out of areas that maintain our economy, lol. Republicans are so stupid.

The top 1% pay 40% of all the money paid to the IRS so let's be very very thankful that they pay for almost everything including all of the roads schools hospitals free healthcare free education free housing is the bottom 50% enjoy so thanklessly

 

[The Derp]

Got nothing? Ourcorporations were freed From the huge burden or cost imposed on them by liberal Marxists.

And that did what for the US? Nothing. No jobs. No cheaper products. Nothing. The move to Ireland was just an accounting trick that did nothing to increase revenues or consumer demand.

 

[The Derp]

It doesn't matter where they live the point is that the lower 50% get a huge tax breaks to the extent that they think mooching is normal

So your Russian Active Measure fails here a bit. The lower 50% do not get "huge tax breaks" by not paying federal income tax. Those revenue drops as a result of tax cuts are passed onto taxpayers by way of increased local sales and excise taxes, which results in the lower classes paying more out of pocket. That's why household debt spikes every time taxes are cut.

 

[The Derp]

The top 1% pay 40% of all the money paid to the IRS

Only because Conservatives made it so. Back before trickle-down, the tax burden was more equitable. So it's hard to see how this argument you are making isn't masturbation. The whole reason the top 1% pay 40% is because taxes were cut. So you propose the very thing that caused the burden you are now making a proposal to fix using the tactic that caused the problem in the first place.

Only one word fits that; masturbation.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

It doesn't matter where they live the point is that the lower 50% get a huge tax breaks to the extent that they think mooching is normal

So your Russian Active Measure fails here a bit. The lower 50% do not get "huge tax breaks" by not paying federal income tax. Those revenue drops as a result of tax cuts are passed onto taxpayers by way of increased local sales and excise taxes, which results in the lower classes paying more out of pocket. That's why household debt spikes every time taxes are cut.

Sure they do if the lower 50% had to pay for their education healthcare housing roads fire department etc. their tax rate would be skyhigh and they would have a whole new appreciation for the top 1% who keep them on welfare this way