Taxation "gun to your head" - myth

[OohPooPahDoo]

You're as dumb as a Monday is long. If i own my own business and file my taxes, but never pay, you think the govt. will just keep sending me a notice that i owe them. If you work for someone they will seize your income without your consent (if you have direct deposit). The bank will even be so kind as to charge you for the transfer of funds. If you dont have any savings that they can take from you, they will seize your assets. If you fail to comply with seizure, they will take it by force. That means restraining you and up to putting a gun to your head.

They arent' asking for the money, poop. It's theft ultimately at the point of a gun.

There's no force at all involved. The bank wilfully turns over your assets to the IRS when they are shown you lawfully owe it. Did you read the OP? Its actually quite civil. The IRS will go to the court who will inform the bank you lawfully owe the IRS the money, then the bank simply subtracts that amount from your account and adds it to the IRS's account or writes them a check.

You not only don't understand metaphor but you assume one has enough assets to cover the taxes due plus penalties and interest.

If you don't they will garnish your income. If you have neither income nor assets then they're up shit creek, you can't squeeze blood from a stone. Presumably if you're to continue living you'll need an income or assets at some point though.

And the bank does not willfully do anything. it is COMPELLED by the IRS under threat of having it's charter revoked.

Well by that standard then, banks don't do anything without a gun being pointed to their head. They only give me my deposit when I ask for it because government sticks a gun to their head - by your way of thinking.

If you do not have enough assets you will be taken away by force.

No you won't you fucking moron. You don't go to prison simply for not having enough money to pay the IRS, this isn't 17th century England you idiot. Do you seriously believe this crap? My lord you're dumb. The ONLY debts you can actually go to jail for in the 21st century USA is failure to pay child support. You can't really be this ignorant, right? And once again - for all the idiots - I'm talking about just the debt itself. Other than child support - there is not a single person in a U.S. prison there because he was convicted of owing the government - or anyone else - money.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

My god. I cant even watch this thundering dunderhead any longer.

Yes, yes. Taxation is taken using a fucking pony ride and cotton candy.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

The Trial of Al Capone:Contempt of Court Decision (1931)



Yeah it involves intentionally and willfully not paying.



26 U.S.C. § 7201.

Note the bold faced word. It must involve an act that is already defined as illegal - such as failure to file, lying on a government form where you signature attests to your having sworn it true (such as a tax form), illegally hiding money, etc.

Not paying taxes at all is illegal, you fucking moron.

There isn't a law that says that. The law you quoted says that tax evasion involves a willful ILLEGAL act used to avoid paying taxes. Its not illegal to simply not write a check.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

My god. I cant even watch this thundering dunderhead any longer.

Yes, yes. Taxation is taken using a fucking pony ride and cotton candy.

Its generally just given over under the honor system (honor is something tax protesters known little about). Most people are fine with voluntarily paying the taxes they owe and aren't whiny little children like you.

 

[National Socialist]

Stop getting the government to steal from me to pay for you. If I took money from your pocket without your permission that's theft..government does it,its just taxation...makes perfect sense...

I'm not stealing from you to pay for me anything you whiny baby. My wife and I both work full time and pull in a combined 6 figure salary. We pay our taxes and aren't ashamed to admit it. I doubt you pay a dime in taxes yourself as most 16 year olds' incomes are claimed on their parents returns, but either way, our nation doesn't need leaches like you who expect your freedom to be protected and the road to your workplace to be paved for NOTHING. Please move somewhere without any taxes.

1. I am 28 not 16
2. I live on my own
3. My wife works and I bring in an income as well
4. I don't want a government see my name AnCap. Anarcho-Capitalist.
5. Yes who would let the roads look like shit without the government! Oh geez,maybe the same people we get to pave our driveways its called paving companies! Everything needs privatized.No one is threatening my freedom other than the government you worship.

 

[Oddball]

My god. I cant even watch this thundering dunderhead any longer.

Yes, yes. Taxation is taken using a fucking pony ride and cotton candy.

Its generally just given over under the honor system (honor is something tax protesters known little about). Most people are fine with voluntarily paying the taxes they owe and aren't whiny little children like you.

Right....That Sheriff's sale of your home to pay for your taxes if you refuse to pay them, and subsequent forceful physical removal from your (former) property, is a big part of this "honor system".

Geez, what an ignorant putz you are.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

My god. I cant even watch this thundering dunderhead any longer.

Yes, yes. Taxation is taken using a fucking pony ride and cotton candy.

Its generally just given over under the honor system (honor is something tax protesters known little about). Most people are fine with voluntarily paying the taxes they owe and aren't whiny little children like you.

You can't actually believe this... nobody's this dumb.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

They garnish peoples' wages & seize their assets because they didn't voluntarily pay their taxes?

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

1. I am 28 not 16

I was close. So you've spent most of your life NOT paying taxes. Did you go to college? If so, which college did you go to that isn't subsidized by MY federal tax dollars and which loan did you take out to do it that isn't subsidized by MY federal tax dollars?

5. Yes who would let the roads look like shit without the government!

You evidently have no appreciation whatsoever for how good you've got it in the U.S. Its really sad. Have you ever even been to another country? Our infrastructure system is the envy of the vast majority of the planet, with the exception of perhaps a few countries in Europe, almost all of which have higher rates of taxation than in the U.S.

Oh geez,maybe the same people we get to pave our driveways its called paving companies! Everything needs privatized.No one is threatening my freedom other than the government you worship.

Then let the private companies do it. There's no law stopping a private company from buying land and/or rights of way to build a private road. Either way, I take it you don't use any roads built by federal, state, and local tax dollars, right? At least not the ones that were built before you started paying taxes yourself, that would make you a leach, wouldn't it?

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

My god. I cant even watch this thundering dunderhead any longer.

Yes, yes. Taxation is taken using a fucking pony ride and cotton candy.

Its generally just given over under the honor system (honor is something tax protesters known little about). Most people are fine with voluntarily paying the taxes they owe and aren't whiny little children like you.

Right....That Sheriff's sale of your home to pay for your taxes if you refuse to pay them, and subsequent forceful physical removal from your (former) property, is a big part of this "honor system".

Geez, what an ignorant putz you are.

I said generally. Most people are law abiding citizens and don't want to stiff their fellow citizens on the taxes they owe. There are a few people that feel they don't need to contribute to society - that all the benefits our society provides them they should just get for free. Occasionally the IRS will need to put a lien on these folks' houses because they are cheap assholes who want to cheat the rest of us. As far as the Sheriff selling your home, that's a local issue when you don't pay your property taxes. You can take that up with your local government.

 

[Oddball]

1. I am 28 not 16

I was close. So you've spent most of your life NOT paying taxes. Did you go to college? If so, which college did you go to that isn't subsidized by MY federal tax dollars and which loan did you take out to do it that isn't subsidized by MY federal tax dollars?

5. Yes who would let the roads look like shit without the government!

You evidently have no appreciation whatsoever for how good you've got it in the U.S. Its really sad. Have you ever even been to another country? Our infrastructure system is the envy of the vast majority of the planet, with the exception of perhaps a few countries in Europe, almost all of which have higher rates of taxation than in the U.S.

Oh geez,maybe the same people we get to pave our driveways its called paving companies! Everything needs privatized.No one is threatening my freedom other than the government you worship.

Then let the private companies do it. There's no law stopping a private company from buying land and/or rights of way to build a private road. Either way, I take it you don't use any roads built by federal, state, and local tax dollars, right? At least not the ones that were built before you started paying taxes yourself, that would make you a leach, wouldn't it?

If he buys gasoline or diesel, he pays fuel taxes which are there to build the roads....Which means he's not a leech.

Leave it to the claimed PhD to not know the difference between a parasitic aquatic worm and percolating liquids.

Foo.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

My god. I cant even watch this thundering dunderhead any longer.

Yes, yes. Taxation is taken using a fucking pony ride and cotton candy.

Its generally just given over under the honor system (honor is something tax protesters known little about). Most people are fine with voluntarily paying the taxes they owe and aren't whiny little children like you.

You can't actually believe this... nobody's this dumb.

Do you honestly make the IRS come take what you owe them through garnishment and asset seizure? That must get expensive. I'd recommend just paying them. It will cost you less in the long run. That's what the rest of us do.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

They garnish peoples' wages & seize their assets because they didn't voluntarily pay their taxes?

Yep. Just like the repo man comes and takes your car if you don't volunteer what you owe on the note every month.

 

[Oddball]

Its generally just given over under the honor system (honor is something tax protesters known little about). Most people are fine with voluntarily paying the taxes they owe and aren't whiny little children like you.

Right....That Sheriff's sale of your home to pay for your taxes if you refuse to pay them, and subsequent forceful physical removal from your (former) property, is a big part of this "honor system".

Geez, what an ignorant putz you are.

I said generally. Most people are law abiding citizens and don't want to stiff their fellow citizens on the taxes they owe. There are a few people that feel they don't need to contribute to society - that all the benefits our society provides them they should just get for free. Occasionally the IRS will need to put a lien on these folks' houses because they are cheap assholes who want to cheat the rest of us. As far as the Sheriff selling your home, that's a local issue when you don't pay your property taxes. You can take that up with your local government.

If there are laws, liens, levies and asset forfeiture, there is compulsion -at gunpoint if necessary- by nature.

I'm sorry that you're too thick headed to figure that out.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

1. I am 28 not 16

I was close. So you've spent most of your life NOT paying taxes. Did you go to college? If so, which college did you go to that isn't subsidized by MY federal tax dollars and which loan did you take out to do it that isn't subsidized by MY federal tax dollars?


You evidently have no appreciation whatsoever for how good you've got it in the U.S. Its really sad. Have you ever even been to another country? Our infrastructure system is the envy of the vast majority of the planet, with the exception of perhaps a few countries in Europe, almost all of which have higher rates of taxation than in the U.S.

Oh geez,maybe the same people we get to pave our driveways its called paving companies! Everything needs privatized.No one is threatening my freedom other than the government you worship.

Then let the private companies do it. There's no law stopping a private company from buying land and/or rights of way to build a private road. Either way, I take it you don't use any roads built by federal, state, and local tax dollars, right? At least not the ones that were built before you started paying taxes yourself, that would make you a leach, wouldn't it?

If he buys gasoline or diesel, he pays fuel taxes which are there to build the roads....Which means he's not a leech.

Leave it to the claimed PhD to not know the difference between a parasitic aquatic worm and percolating liquids.

Foo.

Really? So when he bought his first gallon of gas, the entire interstate system was all of a sudden built?

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

Right....That Sheriff's sale of your home to pay for your taxes if you refuse to pay them, and subsequent forceful physical removal from your (former) property, is a big part of this "honor system".

Geez, what an ignorant putz you are.

I said generally. Most people are law abiding citizens and don't want to stiff their fellow citizens on the taxes they owe. There are a few people that feel they don't need to contribute to society - that all the benefits our society provides them they should just get for free. Occasionally the IRS will need to put a lien on these folks' houses because they are cheap assholes who want to cheat the rest of us. As far as the Sheriff selling your home, that's a local issue when you don't pay your property taxes. You can take that up with your local government.

If there are laws, liens, levies and asset forfeiture, there is compulsion -at gunpoint if necessary- by nature.

But gunpoint ISN'T necessary for any of those. That's the point. A lien is a procedural thing. No one has to show up with guns, its simply recorded at the county courthouse or wherever that there is a lien on your property. Its quite convenient.

 

[Oddball]

I was close. So you've spent most of your life NOT paying taxes. Did you go to college? If so, which college did you go to that isn't subsidized by MY federal tax dollars and which loan did you take out to do it that isn't subsidized by MY federal tax dollars?


You evidently have no appreciation whatsoever for how good you've got it in the U.S. Its really sad. Have you ever even been to another country? Our infrastructure system is the envy of the vast majority of the planet, with the exception of perhaps a few countries in Europe, almost all of which have higher rates of taxation than in the U.S.



Then let the private companies do it. There's no law stopping a private company from buying land and/or rights of way to build a private road. Either way, I take it you don't use any roads built by federal, state, and local tax dollars, right? At least not the ones that were built before you started paying taxes yourself, that would make you a leach, wouldn't it?

If he buys gasoline or diesel, he pays fuel taxes which are there to build the roads....Which means he's not a leech.

Leave it to the claimed PhD to not know the difference between a parasitic aquatic worm and percolating liquids.

Foo.

Really? So when he bought his first gallon of gas, the entire interstate system was all of a sudden built?

Good God...You are just to fucking stupid to deal with anymore.

Go drink some more cheap whiskey, you façile minded asshole.

 

[legaleagle_45]

Note the bold faced word. It must involve an act that is already defined as illegal - such as failure to file, lying on a government form where you signature attests to your having sworn it true (such as a tax form), illegally hiding money, etc.

A violation of 26 USC § 7203 is established upon a showing of a willfull failure to pay. In order to establish a willful failure to pay under section 7203, the government need only prove that the taxpayer possessed sufficient funds to meet his tax obligations and that the taxpayer voluntarily and intentionally did not pay the tax due. United States v. Andros, 484 F.2d 531, 533-34 (9th Cir. 1973). It is not necessary for them to lie on their returns or hide assets for liability to attach. Violation of 26 USC § 7203 is punishable by one year in prison and a $25,000 fine.

Anything else?

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Its generally just given over under the honor system (honor is something tax protesters known little about). Most people are fine with voluntarily paying the taxes they owe and aren't whiny little children like you.

You can't actually believe this... nobody's this dumb.

Do you honestly make the IRS come take what you owe them through garnishment and asset seizure? That must get expensive. I'd recommend just paying them. It will cost you less in the long run. That's what the rest of us do.

No.. here's how this works.... you get paid, you file a tax return and if you don't pay what is owed, they come after you.

And no, I pay quarterly you goofball... have you ever held a job?

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

Note the bold faced word. It must involve an act that is already defined as illegal - such as failure to file, lying on a government form where you signature attests to your having sworn it true (such as a tax form), illegally hiding money, etc.

A violation of 26 USC § 7203 is established upon a showing of a willfull failure to pay. In order to establish a willful failure to pay under section 7203, the government need only prove that the taxpayer possessed sufficient funds to meet his tax obligations and that the taxpayer voluntarily and intentionally did not pay the tax due. United States v. Andros, 484 F.2d 531, 533-34 (9th Cir. 1973). It is not necessary for them to lie on their returns or hide assets for liability to attach. Violation of 26 USC § 7203 is punishable by one year in prison and a $25,000 fine.

Anything else?

Yes.

1) What happens outside the 9th Circuit?

2) Did the government obtain the taxes owed by putting Andros in prison, or did they simply seize his assets through not violent means?