Teacher Compensation

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

My wife was a teacher for 29 years.

Got every summer off, two weeks at Christmas, a week in the Spring and every holiday. Went into work a couple of hours later than me every day and was always home earlier. Never had to work a weekend.

When she was first starting she worked at home at night a little bit grading and planning but after getting a little experience she didn't have to do that any more.

Great job for he sandwich maker. Her salary paid our combined Federal, State and Local taxes for the year so that we could live on my Engineer's salary.

Never once complained about the pay.

Suck it up Buttercups.

What did she teach? P.E.?

Either that or she must have been a lousy teacher. Was this was 20 years ago?

Your wife never attended a sporting event, play, or exhibition on the weekend? Never had to grade papers? Never had to enter grades into a computer? Never had to plan a lesson or a unit?

Sorry Moon Bat but she was a great teacher. She won an award from the Jimmy Carter Administration for being a good teacher and she went to a White House ceremony to get the award. The award was for teaching disadvantage kids. You know, the hard stuff.

What else you got Moon Bat?

I am a Moon Bat, but your wife received an award from an administration that was in office 40 years ago?

I graduated from high school 40 years ago! I guess your job as a typewriter repairman made for a good income.

Totally clueless doesn't even begin to describe how out of touch you are.

I have been in the classroom since 1996. Nothing today compares to when I first started.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Link?

My opinion. I am the link.

Your opinion is biased by ignorance.

Can you honestly tell me that all the students that graduate from your school are proficient in at Algebra (I and II ) and Geometry (with proofs)? How about Chemistry? Today we are pushing kids ( many with IEPs) in these classes that can hardly add positive and negative numbers without a calculator and expect them to keep pace with all the rest of the kids. Don’t get me wrong, there are plenty of students that are doing great, but there are plenty being pushed through that will not be able to solve an algebra word problem two weeks after graduation from high school.

Of course, maybe it’s always been this way.

Proofs are no longer taught because they are unnecessary.

I like to say to my students, "Life is a word problem." It may not be algebra, but all problems are word problems.

Are you saying proofs in geometry are not part of your standards in your state?

As far as I am aware, they have not been a part of any standards I have taught in about 15 years.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Link?

My opinion. I am the link.

Your opinion is biased by ignorance.

Can you honestly tell me that all the students that graduate from your school are proficient in at Algebra (I and II ) and Geometry (with proofs)? How about Chemistry? Today we are pushing kids ( many with IEPs) in these classes that can hardly add positive and negative numbers without a calculator and expect them to keep pace with all the rest of the kids. Don’t get me wrong, there are plenty of students that are doing great, but there are plenty being pushed through that will not be able to solve an algebra word problem two weeks after graduation from high school.

Of course, maybe it’s always been this way.

Who ever solves algebra word problems two weeks after graduating from high school?

My statement was somewhat hypothetical. It’s just a way of expressing that IMHO many students are passed through courses without being proficient with the minimal basic content.

Your hypothesis requires a proof, does it not?

 

[JoeMoma]

Today’s college BA degree is the new high school diploma. There was a time that a high school diploma meant something. Today, most all high schools have a goal of a high graduation rate which on the surface makes sense, however many kids are given passing grades for classes that they don’t really deserve to pass in part to meet the graduation rate goal.

Link?

My opinion. I am the link.

Your opinion is biased by ignorance.

Can you honestly tell me that all the students that graduate from your school are proficient in at Algebra (I and II ) and Geometry (with proofs)? How about Chemistry? Today we are pushing kids ( many with IEPs) in these classes that can hardly add positive and negative numbers without a calculator and expect them to keep pace with all the rest of the kids. Don’t get me wrong, there are plenty of students that are doing great, but there are plenty being pushed through that will not be able to solve an algebra word problem two weeks after graduation from high school.

Of course, maybe it’s always been this way.

Proofs are no longer taught because they are unnecessary.

I like to say to my students, "Life is a word problem." It may not be algebra, but all problems are word problems.

The Life word problem may have little to do with math as presented in high school for some people.

 

[JoeMoma]

My opinion. I am the link.

Your opinion is biased by ignorance.

Can you honestly tell me that all the students that graduate from your school are proficient in at Algebra (I and II ) and Geometry (with proofs)? How about Chemistry? Today we are pushing kids ( many with IEPs) in these classes that can hardly add positive and negative numbers without a calculator and expect them to keep pace with all the rest of the kids. Don’t get me wrong, there are plenty of students that are doing great, but there are plenty being pushed through that will not be able to solve an algebra word problem two weeks after graduation from high school.

Of course, maybe it’s always been this way.

Who ever solves algebra word problems two weeks after graduating from high school?

My statement was somewhat hypothetical. It’s just a way of expressing that IMHO many students are passed through courses without being proficient with the minimal basic content.

Your hypothesis requires a proof, does it not?

Well, I’m not going to prove it here on USMB.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

.....

When I was in HS 35 years ago, an A was 95 - 100, a F was any score below 70. Today in the same state 90 - 100 is an A, 60 - 70 is a D, and anything below 60 is a F.

Link?

Sorry, not everything has a link. You can easily find the current grading scale for South Carolina for today using google. Finding a link for what it was 35 years ago is probably much more difficult. Beleive it or not, the grade scale back then predates the internet as we know it today. It will also be difficult to find YouTube videos of the events in the high schools 35 years ago.
I did make a mistake with my above statements. 60 -69 is a D today. 70 is the beginning of C territory (70-79).

Those grading scales are the result of parent input and standardizing across all states for fairness in college applications. It has nothing to with student performance.

I can make test that requires more knowledge to achieve a score of 70 than you can that you would score as a 95. Any teacher can do that.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Your opinion is biased by ignorance.

Can you honestly tell me that all the students that graduate from your school are proficient in at Algebra (I and II ) and Geometry (with proofs)? How about Chemistry? Today we are pushing kids ( many with IEPs) in these classes that can hardly add positive and negative numbers without a calculator and expect them to keep pace with all the rest of the kids. Don’t get me wrong, there are plenty of students that are doing great, but there are plenty being pushed through that will not be able to solve an algebra word problem two weeks after graduation from high school.

Of course, maybe it’s always been this way.

Who ever solves algebra word problems two weeks after graduating from high school?

My statement was somewhat hypothetical. It’s just a way of expressing that IMHO many students are passed through courses without being proficient with the minimal basic content.

Your hypothesis requires a proof, does it not?

Well, I’m not going to prove it here on USMB.

Mainly, you can't prove something that does not exist.

 

[Flash]

My wife was a teacher for 29 years.

Got every summer off, two weeks at Christmas, a week in the Spring and every holiday. Went into work a couple of hours later than me every day and was always home earlier. Never had to work a weekend.

When she was first starting she worked at home at night a little bit grading and planning but after getting a little experience she didn't have to do that any more.

Great job for he sandwich maker. Her salary paid our combined Federal, State and Local taxes for the year so that we could live on my Engineer's salary.

Never once complained about the pay.

Suck it up Buttercups.

What did she teach? P.E.?

Either that or she must have been a lousy teacher. Was this was 20 years ago?

Your wife never attended a sporting event, play, or exhibition on the weekend? Never had to grade papers? Never had to enter grades into a computer? Never had to plan a lesson or a unit?

Sorry Moon Bat but she was a great teacher. She won an award from the Jimmy Carter Administration for being a good teacher and she went to a White House ceremony to get the award. The award was for teaching disadvantage kids. You know, the hard stuff.

What else you got Moon Bat?

I am a Moon Bat, but your wife received an award from an administration that was in office 40 years ago?

I graduated from high school 40 years ago! I guess your job as a typewriter repairman made for a good income.

Totally clueless doesn't even begin to describe how out of touch you are.

I have been in the classroom since 1996. Nothing today compares to when I first started.

Not all teachers are Left Wing assholes like you Moon Bat. Some actually have good conservative values.

I was really proud of my wife back in the 1970s.

When she first started teaching she joined the teacher's union because they had good liability insurance. However, she found out they were using her dues money to support filthy ass Democrat candidates. She quit the union and got professional liability coverage under our homeowners insurance. Thank god that Florida is a right to work state so she could tell the filthy union to go shove it.

Teaching was a good way for her to help the family income by earning enough money to pay our combined Federal State and local taxes each year.

If the stupid cost of government wasn't so high she wouldn't have had to be a working Mom just so our family could get ahead..

 

[JoeMoma]

.....

When I was in HS 35 years ago, an A was 95 - 100, a F was any score below 70. Today in the same state 90 - 100 is an A, 60 - 70 is a D, and anything below 60 is a F.

Link?

Sorry, not everything has a link. You can easily find the current grading scale for South Carolina for today using google. Finding a link for what it was 35 years ago is probably much more difficult. Beleive it or not, the grade scale back then predates the internet as we know it today. It will also be difficult to find YouTube videos of the events in the high schools 35 years ago.
I did make a mistake with my above statements. 60 -69 is a D today. 70 is the beginning of C territory (70-79).

Those grading scales are the result of parent input and standardizing across all states for fairness in college applications. It has nothing to with student performance.

I can make test that requires more knowledge to achieve a score of 70 than you can that you would score as a 95. Any teacher can do that.

I agree. Teachers can do that. However they don’t. It’s been my experience that teachers attempt to make the difficulty of their tests so that most all of the students in their class has an opportunity to pass the class if the give a good effort and try to learn.

 

[JoeMoma]

Can you honestly tell me that all the students that graduate from your school are proficient in at Algebra (I and II ) and Geometry (with proofs)? How about Chemistry? Today we are pushing kids ( many with IEPs) in these classes that can hardly add positive and negative numbers without a calculator and expect them to keep pace with all the rest of the kids. Don’t get me wrong, there are plenty of students that are doing great, but there are plenty being pushed through that will not be able to solve an algebra word problem two weeks after graduation from high school.

Of course, maybe it’s always been this way.

Who ever solves algebra word problems two weeks after graduating from high school?

My statement was somewhat hypothetical. It’s just a way of expressing that IMHO many students are passed through courses without being proficient with the minimal basic content.

Your hypothesis requires a proof, does it not?

Well, I’m not going to prove it here on USMB.

Mainly, you can't prove something that does not exist.

I don’t have a time machine to go back 35 years ago and gather evidence.
I don’t have a problem with you disagreeing with me.

 

[OldLady]

I just wish everyone would respect the job teachers try to do. This terrible slamming of teachers as Marxists and moral degenerates feeding propaganda to students is so OUT THERE, but it is getting pushed every night on Fox News and the students are getting slammed too. It's revolting and discouraging and so far from reality.

Smells like Russians, to me.

 

[hunarcy]

When I was in retailing many years ago (with Hill's Department Stores), we had a job that needed to be done. Empty boxes of incoming stuff and stock the shelves. We were an absolutely-self-serve discount department store, so the most convenient time to do this was the middle of the day. We employed a small army of WOMEN under the following employment paradigm: You work from 10:00am to 2:00pm, with one 15-minute break, at slightly over minimum wage. No benefits, no vacation, no raises, no nothing. We were absolutely clear with applicants that this was the deal.

Who would take such a job? Happy housewives wanting a little extra money, moms who wanted to work a schedule that allowed them to continue being full-time moms, "retired" women. We had no trouble finding and keeping women to take these positions, and turnover was negligible. They required minimal supervision, and got the job done.

At around the same time, a friend of mine was an elected State Representative in the Pennsylvania House of Representatives. His salary was about $6,000/yr, with minimal benefits. It wasn't a full-time job, but the commitment was pretty-much full time, due to constituent needs.

Who would take such a job? Mostly lawyers, but also business owners who had flexible schedules, farmers, people with other sources of income (a working spouse?), people who had retired from their careers. The occasional crook.

In both of these cases, you have a "job" that DOES NOT PAY A LIVING WAGE. People considering that "job" have to assess, in advance, whether it satisfies their personal needs, and if it doesn't, they need to look elsewhere. There is nothing unreasonable about this, on the part of the employer. The employer, in structuring the job in this way, recognizes that MOST PEOPLE will not be willing to take the job under these constraints, so they are passing on possibly the "best people for the job," but it's a tradeoff.

Not surprisingly, the legislators in Pennsylvania gradually over many years declared that Representative was a FULL-TIME job, and they have paid themselves accordingly, including splendid benefits, and a pension to die for, if you will excuse the totally inappropriate metaphor.

And now we come to TEACHERS.

In many states, the State has decided, wisely or not, to compensate their teachers at a wage that is significantly less than what an exemplary college graduate might make at a full-time job in the private sector (or even in Government). Why would they do such a thing? Well, there's June, July, and August, and the fact that it's arguably not a "full-time job" in the other months of the year (after the first couple years).

But it doesn't really matter WHY they pay their teachers what they do. Maybe they have made a decision, based on the best information they have available, that they can staff their schools adequately at this wage. Maybe they know that at that wage, they will not get the most economically ambitious grads, they will not get many STEM graduates, and High Schools Chemistry in, say, West Virginia, will be taught by History majors who have taken a couple of college Chem classes, rather than a grad with a degree in Organic Chemistry.

But there is no deception here. Applicants for teaching positions in those states know exactly what they will be making, and there is no promise of riches down the road. They have to decide whether that wage and those benefits will meet their needs, and if it doesn't, they need to look elsewhere. The State knows that many would-be teachers will go into another field or leave the state. But they have made that decision, and so be it. (One might point out that the teachers in states where teachers are WELL paid are rarely Phi Beta Kappa material either).

So massive strikes against such State Education Systems are bullshit. As with collective bargaining, they are a Leftist-led assault on the hapless taxpayers, in the name of "fairness."

Since when is it unfair to keep one's promises, as the respective States have done? If you don't like it, if you can't live on those wages, then go somewhere else. Most people in the Real World do this periodically throughout their working lives, with little trauma or gnashing of teeth. The state schools will have NO TROUBLE replacing each and every teacher who departs.

That is incorrect. Fewer and fewer people are going into teaching due to the attitude of ignorant people who want to vilify teachers, show them disrespect and fail to support them. I understand that no one wants their taxes to go up, but in my state, the Legislature has undermined the retirement system, raised premiums on insurance on people who have not been given a raise in 10 years.

And teachers DON'T get June July and August. There's training to be done, classes to take and most schools require teachers to go back in mid-August to ensure the school is ready to open.

Teachers know they are not going to become rich as educators and most do not mind that. But, they want to be able to pay their bills and provide for their children and if you can find fault with that, you're the same sort of buffoon that thinks because he went to school, he knows all there is to know about schools.

 

[Unkotare]

.....

When I was in HS 35 years ago, an A was 95 - 100, a F was any score below 70. Today in the same state 90 - 100 is an A, 60 - 70 is a D, and anything below 60 is a F.

Link?

Sorry, not everything has a link. .......

Hmmmmmmm.....

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

My wife was a teacher for 29 years.

Got every summer off, two weeks at Christmas, a week in the Spring and every holiday. Went into work a couple of hours later than me every day and was always home earlier. Never had to work a weekend.

When she was first starting she worked at home at night a little bit grading and planning but after getting a little experience she didn't have to do that any more.

Great job for he sandwich maker. Her salary paid our combined Federal, State and Local taxes for the year so that we could live on my Engineer's salary.

Never once complained about the pay.

Suck it up Buttercups.

What did she teach? P.E.?

Either that or she must have been a lousy teacher. Was this was 20 years ago?

Your wife never attended a sporting event, play, or exhibition on the weekend? Never had to grade papers? Never had to enter grades into a computer? Never had to plan a lesson or a unit?

Sorry Moon Bat but she was a great teacher. She won an award from the Jimmy Carter Administration for being a good teacher and she went to a White House ceremony to get the award. The award was for teaching disadvantage kids. You know, the hard stuff.

What else you got Moon Bat?

I am a Moon Bat, but your wife received an award from an administration that was in office 40 years ago?

I graduated from high school 40 years ago! I guess your job as a typewriter repairman made for a good income.

Totally clueless doesn't even begin to describe how out of touch you are.

I have been in the classroom since 1996. Nothing today compares to when I first started.

Not all teachers are Left Wing assholes like you Moon Bat. Some actually have good conservative values.

I was really proud of my wife back in the 1970s.

When she first started teaching she joined the teacher's union because they had good liability insurance. However, she found out they were using her dues money to support filthy ass Democrat candidates. She quit the union and got professional liability coverage under our homeowners insurance. Thank god that Florida is a right to work state so she could tell the filthy union to go shove it.

Teaching was a good way for her to help the family income by earning enough money to pay our combined Federal State and local taxes each year.

If the stupid cost of government wasn't so high she wouldn't have had to be a working Mom just so our family could get ahead..

You obviously don't know me if you think I am a liberal. I simply hate the stupidity posted by conservatives who don't know Jack Schitt about education except their own failures to become educated.

They think New York, Chicago and California represent the entire education system in the US. They think a teacher can commit murder and stay on the job! They think that reading in a complicated language like English is equal to much simpler languages all over the world. They ignore the fact that our schools that are full of students whose first language is not English should have no impact on test scores. They think unions should concern themselves with students and not teachers who pay their union dues.

Any more lies that conservatives tell about education that you want to know?

 

[Unkotare]

.......They think that reading in a complicated language like English is equal to much simpler languages all over the world. ......

???????????????????????

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

.......They think that reading in a complicated language like English is equal to much simpler languages all over the world. ......

???????????????????????

You have never seen reading skills compared between the US and other countries?

 

[iamwhatiseem]

.... teachers they can't get rid of due to teachers unions making it basically impossible to fire a teacher over performance, no matter how bad. .....

That's nonsense.

Sorry you don’t like it.

So what is your expertise in this area? Many of us responding to you are teachers. Apparently you are spewing BS to make yourself feel better about your miserable life.

So I am supposed to bow down now and say "hail to the teachers"?
The teaching profession is the same as any other profession...there are good employees and lousy employees. Just because a person is a teacher, doesn't mean they are automatically just that awesome.
I had wonderful teachers in my life, and more than a few truly awful ones. And nothing is done about those truly awful ones. In system after system.
What makes me an expert? I can read. And I can see and hear.
When my kids went through school everyone knew there were teachers you did NOT want your kids to go to. Teachers teaching the same class as others only their students get poorer grades and struggle to pass placement test for college. But the system does nothing.
If you think you are going to sit there and convince America that there is nothing wrong with the teachers union - you are going to be woefully disappointed.
I had teachers that even now at 53, I still think about fondly. Not just very good at what they do, but were really nice people. My two kids had teachers that I appreciated very much. And I have ZERO problem with teachers getting paid better, as long as the teachers unions and the system cleans themselves up and does something about bad teachers.
As a teacher, I cannot comprehend why you would deny their existence.

I never denied their existence. You are using a broad brush to paint all teachers in a negative light. Just go back and read your posts.

You may be able to read, but have you ever considered the source of your information and the locations where all of the negative stories originate? Of course you haven't because that destroys your trolling!

Nah...you’re just way too sensitive. Any negative statement about your profession and you go off the deep end and want to label them a hater. You also need to use the reading comprehension you expect from your students and noticed I also had plenty of compliments

 

[Unkotare]

.......They think that reading in a complicated language like English is equal to much simpler languages all over the world. ......

???????????????????????

You have never seen reading skills compared between the US and other countries?

Your assumptions about comparative linguistics are just that.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

That's nonsense.

Sorry you don’t like it.

So what is your expertise in this area? Many of us responding to you are teachers. Apparently you are spewing BS to make yourself feel better about your miserable life.

So I am supposed to bow down now and say "hail to the teachers"?
The teaching profession is the same as any other profession...there are good employees and lousy employees. Just because a person is a teacher, doesn't mean they are automatically just that awesome.
I had wonderful teachers in my life, and more than a few truly awful ones. And nothing is done about those truly awful ones. In system after system.
What makes me an expert? I can read. And I can see and hear.
When my kids went through school everyone knew there were teachers you did NOT want your kids to go to. Teachers teaching the same class as others only their students get poorer grades and struggle to pass placement test for college. But the system does nothing.
If you think you are going to sit there and convince America that there is nothing wrong with the teachers union - you are going to be woefully disappointed.
I had teachers that even now at 53, I still think about fondly. Not just very good at what they do, but were really nice people. My two kids had teachers that I appreciated very much. And I have ZERO problem with teachers getting paid better, as long as the teachers unions and the system cleans themselves up and does something about bad teachers.
As a teacher, I cannot comprehend why you would deny their existence.

I never denied their existence. You are using a broad brush to paint all teachers in a negative light. Just go back and read your posts.

You may be able to read, but have you ever considered the source of your information and the locations where all of the negative stories originate? Of course you haven't because that destroys your trolling!

Nah...you’re just way too sensitive. Any negative statement about your profession and you go off the deep end and want to label them a hater. You also need to use the reading comprehension you expect from your students and noticed I also had plenty of compliments

Not true. You have shown yourself to be the same type of hater as many that I have on ignore for stupidity above and beyond the call of duty.

BTW, you are not qualified to assess me. That is another concept you haters cannot understand.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

.......They think that reading in a complicated language like English is equal to much simpler languages all over the world. ......

???????????????????????

You have never seen reading skills compared between the US and other countries?

Your assumptions about comparative linguistics are just that.

I don't want to argue with you, but your bias is showing.