Tennessee objects to federal landgrab

[Camp]

read and weep:

States Need More Control Over the Federal Government - NYTimes.com

"But the winds of change are blowing in states across the country. Governors and state attorneys general have begun to challenge what they view as the federal government’s overstepping its constitutionally prescribed role. In 2010, more than 20 states filed suit against the federal government claiming that the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act exceeded Congress’s power. In addition, state attorneys general have successfully challenged various actions by the Environmental Protection Agency and other federal agencies, using state politics to protect the vertical separation of powers."

What the hell does that have to do with doing away or ignoring an original article of the Constitution and a precedent begun and supported by SCOTUS by the original 13 states since 1781?

 

[koshergrl]

Why should we give Tennessee our land?

I would be happy to sell it to them at a fair market value

Sorry, it's not yours to sell, entitlement loser.

 

[koshergrl]

"Hage. Gardner. Dann. Yowell. Colvin. Bundy. Tomera. Filippini. Borba. Hammond. Good ranchers all, cowboys and Indians who had private property rights on federal land in the American West. All have been abused by federal agents of the Bureau of Land Management, U.S. Forest Service, U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service or the National Park Service. Some cattle have been taken at gunpoint, some ranch families have been destroyed, and the abuse was not earned."

"The Hages—who have historic grazing preferences and property rights dating back to the 1860s in central Nevada—have been defending themselves against the government since 1979, and in court (Hage v. United States) since 1991. There have been major decisions in their favor. Judge Loren A. Smith, of the U.S. Court of Federal Claims in Washington, D.C., ruled in 2010 that the government owed the Hages $14 million (including interest) under the “takings clause” of the 5th Amendment. Three members of the family have died since the case started and when it’s time to pay up, the Department of Justice brings out a new crop of highly paid lawyers to harass the Hages again. One Forest Service ranger said in the early ’90s: “Hage can’t win. We have more money and more lawyers.” Paid for by honest taxpayers! (Go to rangemagazine.com and click on Special Info/Hage at the bottom of the Home Page.)

" In a recent trespass case brought by BLM and FS against the Hages, Federal District Court Judge Robert C. Jones ruled in favor of the family, noting that two agencies of the federal government entered into a “literal, intentional conspiracy to deprive the Hages not only of their permits but also their vested water rights. This behavior shocks the conscience of the Court.” DOJ appealed and the 9th Circuit overruled Judge Jones on Jan. 15, 2016. Next step: the Supreme Court."

And that's just the Hages.

Up Front: Spindled & Mutilated

 

[jc456]

Why do RWNJs want public land to be taken away from ALL Americans and given to only a few to make a profit on?

Why would any TRUE American want an end to our National Park System?

Why do you want to rape and pave the entire country, leaving nothing for Americans to enjoy and nothing for your children?

WTF is WRONG with you?

what do you need it for?

Income to help preserve and maintain our investment.

but you don't own it, so the income isn't yours. I asked what do you need it for?

 

[jc456]

read and weep:

States Need More Control Over the Federal Government - NYTimes.com

"But the winds of change are blowing in states across the country. Governors and state attorneys general have begun to challenge what they view as the federal government’s overstepping its constitutionally prescribed role. In 2010, more than 20 states filed suit against the federal government claiming that the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act exceeded Congress’s power. In addition, state attorneys general have successfully challenged various actions by the Environmental Protection Agency and other federal agencies, using state politics to protect the vertical separation of powers."

What the hell does that have to do with doing away or ignoring an original article of the Constitution and a precedent begun and supported by SCOTUS by the original 13 states since 1781?

i deleted it, I posted while I was reading, my bad, and it's gone.

 

[rightwinger]

Why should we give Tennessee our land?

I would be happy to sell it to them at a fair market value

Sorry, it's not yours to sell, entitlement loser.

It belongs to all the people of the United States

If the people of a given state wants exclusive rights to our land.....let them pay fair price

 

[Skylar]

"Hage. Gardner. Dann. Yowell. Colvin. Bundy. Tomera. Filippini. Borba. Hammond. Good ranchers all, cowboys and Indians who had private property rights on federal land in the American West.

Who said that Bundy had private property rights on federal land in the American west?

Specifically.

And if you're going to cite a court decision in favor of one of your favorites.....then you can't rightly ignore court decisions if they disagree with you. Otherwise you'd be citing and ignoring the same source on the same topic.

For example;

Government's implied consent to grazing on federal lands "did not confer any vested right on the complianant, nor did it deprive the United States of the power of recalling any implied license under which the land has been used for private purposes"

Light v. United States (1911)

That's the Supreme Court explicitly contradicting the 'private property rights on federal land' argument. The beating heart of Hage's argument.

"Congress has no conferred up citizens the right to graze stock upon the public lands. The government has merely suffered the lands to be so used"

Omaechevarria v. Idaho (1918)

A privilege that can be revoked at any time for any reason. The antithesis of 'private property rights'. And held by courts again and again since:

Grazing on public lands is "a privilege which is withdrawable at any time for any use by the sovereign without the payment of compensation".

Osborne v. United States (9th circuit 1944)

With multiple ranchers trying Hage's horseshit 'surface estates' nonsense. And losing. In Colvin Cattle Co. V United States (2006), Diamond Bar Cattle Co. V. United States (10th circuit, 1999), and Walker v. United States (2008).

Even in the case you're citing, Judge Loren Smith rejected the claims that Hage was entitled to compensation when the federal government revoked his permits because

1) His federal grazing permits were property
2) His federal grazing permits were contracts
3) He had established a 'surface estate' in the federal lands
4) Without the ability to graze he could not longer make use of his water rights
5) He had 'forage rights'.

Shredding the 'private property rights to federal land' argument yet again.

 

[rightwinger]

Why do RWNJs want public land to be taken away from ALL Americans and given to only a few to make a profit on?

Why would any TRUE American want an end to our National Park System?

Why do you want to rape and pave the entire country, leaving nothing for Americans to enjoy and nothing for your children?

WTF is WRONG with you?

what do you need it for?

Income to help preserve and maintain our investment.

but you don't own it, so the income isn't yours. I asked what do you need it for?

If we don't own it....who does?

 

[Camp]

Why do RWNJs want public land to be taken away from ALL Americans and given to only a few to make a profit on?

Why would any TRUE American want an end to our National Park System?

Why do you want to rape and pave the entire country, leaving nothing for Americans to enjoy and nothing for your children?

WTF is WRONG with you?

what do you need it for?

Income to help preserve and maintain our investment.

but you don't own it, so the income isn't yours. I asked what do you need it for?

I do own it. I own a very small piece of it just like every other citizen owns a very small piece of it and it is none of your business how I or they choose to use it as long as they use it in the way the managers request it be used.

 

[ogibillm]

Tennessee is on board with the feds restoring public lands based on the UNCONSTITUTIONALITY of the feds owning those lands in the first place.

THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT does NOT own BLM or FOREST SERVICE lands and they are not AUTHORIZED, per the constitution, to control them.

"A resolution recently passed by the Tennessee legislature and signed by Gov. Bill Haslam calls on the feds to give back the land in the Western part of the country back to the states.
"Introduced by state Rep. Andy Holt, House Joint Resolution 92 (HJR92) “expresses support for the federal transfer of public lands to the western states and urges Congress to coordinate the transfer of title to the western states.”
"It passed the House last year by a vote of 64-25. In January, the Senate passed it 26-2. And Gov. Haslam signed it on Jan. 26, 2016.
"The resolution reads, in part:
"The Constitution contains no expression of intent to authorize the federal government to indefinitely exercise control over western public lands beyond the duty to manage the lands pending the disposal of the lands to create new states, and therefore the lands should be returned to the western states….limiting the ability of western states to access and utilize the public lands’ natural resources within their borders is having a negative impact upon the economy of those western states and therefore the economy of the entire United States."


Tennessee Passes Resolution Calling on the Feds to Give Western Land Back to the States | Tenth Amendment Center Blog

Meaningless political junk. The Tennessee nonsense has no legal authority and is nothing more than politicians politicking by abusing their power to pass meaningless legislation to fool the voters into thinking they are earning their pay.

it wouldn't be an election year if you didn't have idiotic state republicans pretending to have power over the federal government.
the rubes eat it up.

 

[bodecea]

Tennessee is on board with the feds restoring public lands based on the UNCONSTITUTIONALITY of the feds owning those lands in the first place.

THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT does NOT own BLM or FOREST SERVICE lands and they are not AUTHORIZED, per the constitution, to control them.

"A resolution recently passed by the Tennessee legislature and signed by Gov. Bill Haslam calls on the feds to give back the land in the Western part of the country back to the states.
"Introduced by state Rep. Andy Holt, House Joint Resolution 92 (HJR92) “expresses support for the federal transfer of public lands to the western states and urges Congress to coordinate the transfer of title to the western states.”
"It passed the House last year by a vote of 64-25. In January, the Senate passed it 26-2. And Gov. Haslam signed it on Jan. 26, 2016.
"The resolution reads, in part:
"The Constitution contains no expression of intent to authorize the federal government to indefinitely exercise control over western public lands beyond the duty to manage the lands pending the disposal of the lands to create new states, and therefore the lands should be returned to the western states….limiting the ability of western states to access and utilize the public lands’ natural resources within their borders is having a negative impact upon the economy of those western states and therefore the economy of the entire United States."


Tennessee Passes Resolution Calling on the Feds to Give Western Land Back to the States | Tenth Amendment Center Blog

Fine...take down the federally paid for dams and power plants when giving it up.

 

[bodecea]

Koch is involved in this one too.

Color me surprised.

 

[ogibillm]

"Hage. Gardner. Dann. Yowell. Colvin. Bundy. Tomera. Filippini. Borba. Hammond. Good ranchers all, cowboys and Indians who had private property rights on federal land in the American West. All have been abused by federal agents of the Bureau of Land Management, U.S. Forest Service, U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service or the National Park Service. Some cattle have been taken at gunpoint, some ranch families have been destroyed, and the abuse was not earned."

"The Hages—who have historic grazing preferences and property rights dating back to the 1860s in central Nevada—have been defending themselves against the government since 1979, and in court (Hage v. United States) since 1991. There have been major decisions in their favor. Judge Loren A. Smith, of the U.S. Court of Federal Claims in Washington, D.C., ruled in 2010 that the government owed the Hages $14 million (including interest) under the “takings clause” of the 5th Amendment. Three members of the family have died since the case started and when it’s time to pay up, the Department of Justice brings out a new crop of highly paid lawyers to harass the Hages again. One Forest Service ranger said in the early ’90s: “Hage can’t win. We have more money and more lawyers.” Paid for by honest taxpayers! (Go to rangemagazine.com and click on Special Info/Hage at the bottom of the Home Page.)

" In a recent trespass case brought by BLM and FS against the Hages, Federal District Court Judge Robert C. Jones ruled in favor of the family, noting that two agencies of the federal government entered into a “literal, intentional conspiracy to deprive the Hages not only of their permits but also their vested water rights. This behavior shocks the conscience of the Court.” DOJ appealed and the 9th Circuit overruled Judge Jones on Jan. 15, 2016. Next step: the Supreme Court."

And that's just the Hages.

Up Front: Spindled & Mutilated

losers supporting losers.

 

[jc456]

Why should we give Tennessee our land?

I would be happy to sell it to them at a fair market value

Sorry, it's not yours to sell, entitlement loser.

It belongs to all the people of the United States

If the people of a given state wants exclusive rights to our land.....let them pay fair price

nice broad stroke there bubba. Where that is true, the use of the property is limited and would never be used by all americans, so use the land for the purpose of prosperity. why are you against that? I don't get you libturds on that.

 

[bodecea]

Tennessee is on board with the feds restoring public lands based on the UNCONSTITUTIONALITY of the feds owning those lands in the first place.

THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT does NOT own BLM or FOREST SERVICE lands and they are not AUTHORIZED, per the constitution, to control them.

"A resolution recently passed by the Tennessee legislature and signed by Gov. Bill Haslam calls on the feds to give back the land in the Western part of the country back to the states.
"Introduced by state Rep. Andy Holt, House Joint Resolution 92 (HJR92) “expresses support for the federal transfer of public lands to the western states and urges Congress to coordinate the transfer of title to the western states.”
"It passed the House last year by a vote of 64-25. In January, the Senate passed it 26-2. And Gov. Haslam signed it on Jan. 26, 2016.
"The resolution reads, in part:
"The Constitution contains no expression of intent to authorize the federal government to indefinitely exercise control over western public lands beyond the duty to manage the lands pending the disposal of the lands to create new states, and therefore the lands should be returned to the western states….limiting the ability of western states to access and utilize the public lands’ natural resources within their borders is having a negative impact upon the economy of those western states and therefore the economy of the entire United States."


Tennessee Passes Resolution Calling on the Feds to Give Western Land Back to the States | Tenth Amendment Center Blog

Meaningless political junk. The Tennessee nonsense has no legal authority and is nothing more than politicians politicking by abusing their power to pass meaningless legislation to fool the voters into thinking they are earning their pay.

But it is more fodder for a States Article V Constitutional Amendment Convention

I think it will happen eventually, not too long from now

Yes..the success of American Spring shows that the American People are all for that kind of thing.

 

[bodecea]

The group pushing to sell off (privatize) the national park system to the fossil fuel industry, and sell off all public land to the highest corporate bidder, is the Koch and ExxonMobil-funded Property and Environment Research Center (PERC).

Check it out.

Bullshit. The feds own way too much land west of the Dakotas.

Who paid the Russians, the Mexicans, and the Brits for it? Private citizens?

 

[rightwinger]

Tennessee is on board with the feds restoring public lands based on the UNCONSTITUTIONALITY of the feds owning those lands in the first place.

THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT does NOT own BLM or FOREST SERVICE lands and they are not AUTHORIZED, per the constitution, to control them.

"A resolution recently passed by the Tennessee legislature and signed by Gov. Bill Haslam calls on the feds to give back the land in the Western part of the country back to the states.
"Introduced by state Rep. Andy Holt, House Joint Resolution 92 (HJR92) “expresses support for the federal transfer of public lands to the western states and urges Congress to coordinate the transfer of title to the western states.”
"It passed the House last year by a vote of 64-25. In January, the Senate passed it 26-2. And Gov. Haslam signed it on Jan. 26, 2016.
"The resolution reads, in part:
"The Constitution contains no expression of intent to authorize the federal government to indefinitely exercise control over western public lands beyond the duty to manage the lands pending the disposal of the lands to create new states, and therefore the lands should be returned to the western states….limiting the ability of western states to access and utilize the public lands’ natural resources within their borders is having a negative impact upon the economy of those western states and therefore the economy of the entire United States."


Tennessee Passes Resolution Calling on the Feds to Give Western Land Back to the States | Tenth Amendment Center Blog

Fine...take down the federally paid for dams and power plants when giving it up.

How can the Tennessee State Legislature vote on what happens to land in the western states?

Too much time on their hands

 

[JimBowie1958]

Trump will sell parts of Yellowstone and the Grand Tetons to build privately owned Hotels and golf courses, probably his own

And why not? At lest some use will come out of it and maybe lower the Federal deficit as well.

 

[JimBowie1958]

The group pushing to sell off (privatize) the national park system to the fossil fuel industry, and sell off all public land to the highest corporate bidder, is the Koch and ExxonMobil-funded Property and Environment Research Center (PERC).

Check it out.

Bullshit. The feds own way too much land west of the Dakotas.

Who paid the Russians, the Mexicans, and the Brits for it? Private citizens?

the Divine Court of War

 

[JimBowie1958]

Great argument. The folks who argue the public lands as per Article 4 Section 3 Clause 4 are not owned by the government representing the citizens of America, they are owned by the State of Tennessee, a state which was created from federally owned public land by the way.

So what? IT is now controled by a different government.

Why do we have to spoon feed you guys?