Testimony of Alberto Rivera - Ex-Jesuit

[irosie91]

Genesis 50:20

thank you very much.
19 But Joseph said to them, “Fear not, for am I in the place of God? 20 As for you, you meant evil against me; but God meant it for good, to bring it about that many people should be kept alive, as they are today. 21 So do not fear; I will provide for you and your little ones.” Thus he reassured them and comforted them.

You get the prize, but they were still evil and what they did was evil. Does God have people do evil things?

you made no point------it was an account of an event---historical ----recorded for its heuristic value-----gee you are dim. No one claimed that they were paragons of virtue----
only muhummad and his band of merry rapists and pillagers
are PERFECT

historical, I doubt it.

no doubt you doubt-----why should you value any ancient writing?------your minimind functions independently of all
records and all reality

Most of the stuff in the OT is not supported by historical facts. Even Moses is up to debate, I mean they lived less years back then not more, and also there may of been a group who traveled through the desert and got lost out there and they may of made up laws, like most societies do, but the commandments are really mans aren't they? Moses wanted everyone to worship one God, Yahweh, but of course they just couldn't , they loved the non Hebrew women. I do believe some of the battles, but the new evidence says that the Jews in Babylon were not slaves, which sounds more like it, since so few came back when King Cyrus said they could. They loved the city of Babylon.

Your entire post is conjecture------it is nothing more than ---
"I , Penelope the great, have decided to declare the only
written record of a long history of a people to be entirely
fanciful". Intelligent historians everywhere have learned to
value all scriptural writings. Have you ever heard of
Heinrich Schlieman? Have you ever read the Hindu scriptural writings? BTW----your babble about the Babylonian jews is truly
idiotic. In fact the history of that era is very well recorded and
does not conflict with provable facts at all. -----btw-----from where
do you get "the jews in Babylon were slaves"?? Most of the
jews never went to Babylon. The entire country was not
marched out to Babylon------gee you are dim

 

[Penelope]

Is it true that Benjamin got married at the age of 10 and again at 18 and we know for sure he had 10 sons. but in the book of Jasher he got married at 10, wonder how old his wife was? Do you know Irosie?

 

[Penelope]

thank you very much.
19 But Joseph said to them, “Fear not, for am I in the place of God? 20 As for you, you meant evil against me; but God meant it for good, to bring it about that many people should be kept alive, as they are today. 21 So do not fear; I will provide for you and your little ones.” Thus he reassured them and comforted them.

You get the prize, but they were still evil and what they did was evil. Does God have people do evil things?

you made no point------it was an account of an event---historical ----recorded for its heuristic value-----gee you are dim. No one claimed that they were paragons of virtue----
only muhummad and his band of merry rapists and pillagers
are PERFECT

historical, I doubt it.

no doubt you doubt-----why should you value any ancient writing?------your minimind functions independently of all
records and all reality

Most of the stuff in the OT is not supported by historical facts. Even Moses is up to debate, I mean they lived less years back then not more, and also there may of been a group who traveled through the desert and got lost out there and they may of made up laws, like most societies do, but the commandments are really mans aren't they? Moses wanted everyone to worship one God, Yahweh, but of course they just couldn't , they loved the non Hebrew women. I do believe some of the battles, but the new evidence says that the Jews in Babylon were not slaves, which sounds more like it, since so few came back when King Cyrus said they could. They loved the city of Babylon.

Your entire post is conjecture------it is nothing more than ---
"I , Penelope the great, have decided to declare the only
written record of a long history of a people to be entirely
fanciful". Intelligent historians everywhere have learned to
value all scriptural writings. Have you ever heard of
Heinrich Schlieman? Have you ever read the Hindu scriptural writings? BTW----your babble about the Babylonian jews is truly
idiotic. In fact the history of that era is very well recorded and
does not conflict with provable facts at all. -----btw-----from where
do you get "the jews in Babylon were slaves"?? Most of the
jews never went to Babylon. The entire country was not
marched out to Babylon------gee you are dim

You know its not, the Babylon Jews were set free by King Cyrus, and only around 42000 went back to Jerusalem, the rest chose to stay in Babylon. Really so the temple was not destroyed either? Hum.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

nope Penelope------I can find nothing labeled
"secular jewism"

I gave you a link, click on it and read. Where did Joseph tell his brothers, Its ok, it'll turn out for the best , chapter and verse please.

I did not notice the link------as for the story of Joseph -----its in the bible-----genesis.. On several occasions Joseph
reassures that all is ok between them and that he is
delighted to have them----despite what they did to him----
his death bed speech is remarkable in its tone for
conciliation. Try reading it You gave me a link to the concept
of "secular jewism"??? "jewism" is not a word in the English lexicon-------it has been rarely used as a slang word
by islamo Nazi dogs and sows---to refer to anything the sows and dogs ima

nope Penelope------I can find nothing labeled
"secular jewism"

I gave you a link, click on it and read. Where did Joseph tell his brothers, Its ok, it'll turn out for the best , chapter and verse please.

I can see why a weak minded person like you would be confused by the WIKKI article. You seem to imagine that
"secular" for jews means atheist------It doesn't. It refers to
people who do not engage assiduously in ritual----in fact only a few of the people noted in the article were actually atheist---- Haym Nachman Bialik certainly was not-----his poetry is actually religion oriented---VERY MUCH SO. Marc Chagall certainly was not------in fact he engaged in ritual---
I was surprised when I was in some old synagogue to discover that it was the one Marc Chagall attended regularly-----an orthodox synagogue. I am not sure how freud described himself-----Einstein described himself as an agnostic. Among jews if one uses the computer on
Saturday----THAT is a secular jew. You would not be
expected to know this stuff. ---it is kinda like a catholic
being "lapsed" because she takes birth control pills----it
does not make her an atheist. I have no idea how you
conclude that all Israeli politicians are atheists

No Joseph forgave them, he never said when he was being sold to the slave traders, its for the best. Secular Jews see Judaism as a tradition. Please read history, the father (so called father ) of the Zionism was an atheist. Right now as we speak Moshe the PM of defense wants gay marriage in Israel, that will surely make the Muslims happy. I guess we can say the maj of Jews in the world are lapsed.

He made it clear that it was the will of God - AFTERWARDS. You cannot guess anything when it comes to the Jews because God has already promised all Israel shall be saved, Penelope. ON THE OTHER HAND! No such promise has been given to the Catholics who remain in Catholicism. So get yourself out of there as fast as your little legs can carry you.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Is it true that Benjamin got married at the age of 10 and again at 18 and we know for sure he had 10 sons. but in the book of Jasher he got married at 10, wonder how old his wife was? Do you know Irosie?

There is no book of Jasher. The Bible that is recognized by God is the King James Bible. The Catholic Bible is an abomination. Throw it out.

 

[irosie91]

you made no point------it was an account of an event---historical ----recorded for its heuristic value-----gee you are dim. No one claimed that they were paragons of virtue----
only muhummad and his band of merry rapists and pillagers
are PERFECT

historical, I doubt it.

no doubt you doubt-----why should you value any ancient writing?------your minimind functions independently of all
records and all reality

Most of the stuff in the OT is not supported by historical facts. Even Moses is up to debate, I mean they lived less years back then not more, and also there may of been a group who traveled through the desert and got lost out there and they may of made up laws, like most societies do, but the commandments are really mans aren't they? Moses wanted everyone to worship one God, Yahweh, but of course they just couldn't , they loved the non Hebrew women. I do believe some of the battles, but the new evidence says that the Jews in Babylon were not slaves, which sounds more like it, since so few came back when King Cyrus said they could. They loved the city of Babylon.

Your entire post is conjecture------it is nothing more than ---
"I , Penelope the great, have decided to declare the only
written record of a long history of a people to be entirely
fanciful". Intelligent historians everywhere have learned to
value all scriptural writings. Have you ever heard of
Heinrich Schlieman? Have you ever read the Hindu scriptural writings? BTW----your babble about the Babylonian jews is truly
idiotic. In fact the history of that era is very well recorded and
does not conflict with provable facts at all. -----btw-----from where
do you get "the jews in Babylon were slaves"?? Most of the
jews never went to Babylon. The entire country was not
marched out to Babylon------gee you are dim

You know its not, the Babylon Jews were set free by King Cyrus, and only around 42000 went back to Jerusalem, the rest chose to stay in Babylon. Really so the temple was not destroyed either? Hum.

you got a link for your nonsense? ----you are stating that 420,000 jews held in slavery in Babylon were "set free" by Cyrus--------and they went back to Jerusalem and the rest (no number supplied) stayed in Babylon--------Ok----fine with me--- I am fascinated to find out -------LINK???

for those who do not know----the Babylonian exile did
not wipe the entire population of jews out of Israel/Judea--
it involved the more prominent citizens. By that time
there were already jews living "elsewhere" ----like along the
silk road-----like in Arabia and yemen etc etc. The end of
the exile involved a return of those LEADERS . Politics
is politics----not all people were followers of this or that
"leader" For example some people rejected the
leadership of Ezra------------ask roudy----he probably
knows all about it LINK Penelope------so far I am so
unimpressed

Ok Penelope-----that link please?

The book of Jasher is -----a novella from the midrash----Penelope is
not capable of understanding the concept of midrash

 

[irosie91]

Is it true that Benjamin got married at the age of 10 and again at 18 and we know for sure he had 10 sons. but in the book of Jasher he got married at 10, wonder how old his wife was? Do you know Irosie?

There is no book of Jasher. The Bible that is recognized by God is the King James Bible. The Catholic Bible is an abomination. Throw it out.

book of jasher is something from MIDRASH-----that is
writings -------that are sorta instructive----not particularly
history-------legends with a message------a kind of system
of instruction Jasher means "straight" in the sense
we use straight as in "he's a straight guy"

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Thanks, Rosie. I thought she was claiming it was in her bible. Oy vey.

 

[Penelope]

historical, I doubt it.

no doubt you doubt-----why should you value any ancient writing?------your minimind functions independently of all
records and all reality

Most of the stuff in the OT is not supported by historical facts. Even Moses is up to debate, I mean they lived less years back then not more, and also there may of been a group who traveled through the desert and got lost out there and they may of made up laws, like most societies do, but the commandments are really mans aren't they? Moses wanted everyone to worship one God, Yahweh, but of course they just couldn't , they loved the non Hebrew women. I do believe some of the battles, but the new evidence says that the Jews in Babylon were not slaves, which sounds more like it, since so few came back when King Cyrus said they could. They loved the city of Babylon.

Your entire post is conjecture------it is nothing more than ---
"I , Penelope the great, have decided to declare the only
written record of a long history of a people to be entirely
fanciful". Intelligent historians everywhere have learned to
value all scriptural writings. Have you ever heard of
Heinrich Schlieman? Have you ever read the Hindu scriptural writings? BTW----your babble about the Babylonian jews is truly
idiotic. In fact the history of that era is very well recorded and
does not conflict with provable facts at all. -----btw-----from where
do you get "the jews in Babylon were slaves"?? Most of the
jews never went to Babylon. The entire country was not
marched out to Babylon------gee you are dim

You know its not, the Babylon Jews were set free by King Cyrus, and only around 42000 went back to Jerusalem, the rest chose to stay in Babylon. Really so the temple was not destroyed either? Hum.

you got a link for your nonsense? ----you are stating that 420,000 jews held in slavery in Babylon were "set free" by Cyrus--------and they went back to Jerusalem and the rest (no number supplied) stayed in Babylon--------Ok----fine with me--- I am fascinated to find out -------LINK???

for those who do not know----the Babylonian exile did
not wipe the entire population of jews out of Israel/Judea--
it involved the more prominent citizens. By that time
there were already jews living "elsewhere" ----like along the
silk road-----like in Arabia and yemen etc etc. The end of
the exile involved a return of those LEADERS . Politics
is politics----not all people were followers of this or that
"leader" For example some people rejected the
leadership of Ezra------------ask roudy----he probably
knows all about it LINK Penelope------so far I am so
unimpressed

Ok Penelope-----that link please?

The book of Jasher is -----a novella from the midrash----Penelope is
not capable of understanding the concept of midrash

I said only around 42 ,000 returned, along with some singers and slaves.


64 The whole assembly together was forty-two thousand three hundred and sixty, 65 besides their menservants and maidservants, of whom there were seven thouand three hundred and thirty-seven; and they had two hundred male and female singers. 66 Their horses were seven hundred and thirty-six, their mules were two hundred and forty-five, 67 their camels were four hundred and thirty-five, and their asses were six thousand seven hundred and twenty.

Ezra 2 Revised Standard Version (RSV)

List of the Returned Exiles

(life was probably wonderful in Babylon, having servants )

 

[Penelope]

Thanks, Rosie. I thought she was claiming it was in her bible. Oy vey.

The book of Jasher is quoted in the Bible so it must be relevant. You should read it, its online. Just like Enoch is quoted in the Bible.

 

[Penelope]

Is it true that Benjamin got married at the age of 10 and again at 18 and we know for sure he had 10 sons. but in the book of Jasher he got married at 10, wonder how old his wife was? Do you know Irosie?

There is no book of Jasher. The Bible that is recognized by God is the King James Bible. The Catholic Bible is an abomination. Throw it out.

How would you know about Purim and Hanukah, unless you read the RCC Bible, the book of Esther, and 1 and 2 Macc. Your missing a lot . Have you read the Book of Jasher and Enoch, Esther and the Maccabees, if not , why not.

 

[Penelope]

historical, I doubt it.

no doubt you doubt-----why should you value any ancient writing?------your minimind functions independently of all
records and all reality

Most of the stuff in the OT is not supported by historical facts. Even Moses is up to debate, I mean they lived less years back then not more, and also there may of been a group who traveled through the desert and got lost out there and they may of made up laws, like most societies do, but the commandments are really mans aren't they? Moses wanted everyone to worship one God, Yahweh, but of course they just couldn't , they loved the non Hebrew women. I do believe some of the battles, but the new evidence says that the Jews in Babylon were not slaves, which sounds more like it, since so few came back when King Cyrus said they could. They loved the city of Babylon.

Your entire post is conjecture------it is nothing more than ---
"I , Penelope the great, have decided to declare the only
written record of a long history of a people to be entirely
fanciful". Intelligent historians everywhere have learned to
value all scriptural writings. Have you ever heard of
Heinrich Schlieman? Have you ever read the Hindu scriptural writings? BTW----your babble about the Babylonian jews is truly
idiotic. In fact the history of that era is very well recorded and
does not conflict with provable facts at all. -----btw-----from where
do you get "the jews in Babylon were slaves"?? Most of the
jews never went to Babylon. The entire country was not
marched out to Babylon------gee you are dim

You know its not, the Babylon Jews were set free by King Cyrus, and only around 42000 went back to Jerusalem, the rest chose to stay in Babylon. Really so the temple was not destroyed either? Hum.

you got a link for your nonsense? ----you are stating that 420,000 jews held in slavery in Babylon were "set free" by Cyrus--------and they went back to Jerusalem and the rest (no number supplied) stayed in Babylon--------Ok----fine with me--- I am fascinated to find out -------LINK???

for those who do not know----the Babylonian exile did
not wipe the entire population of jews out of Israel/Judea--
it involved the more prominent citizens. By that time
there were already jews living "elsewhere" ----like along the
silk road-----like in Arabia and yemen etc etc. The end of
the exile involved a return of those LEADERS . Politics
is politics----not all people were followers of this or that
"leader" For example some people rejected the
leadership of Ezra------------ask roudy----he probably
knows all about it LINK Penelope------so far I am so
unimpressed

Ok Penelope-----that link please?

The book of Jasher is -----a novella from the midrash----Penelope is
not capable of understanding the concept of midrash

King Cyrus set all the Jews free, but most remained despite that. Benjamin had 10 boys when he went to Egypt , his first marriage was at 10 (according to Jasher) and had 5 boys, his second marriage was at 18 and had 5 boys and he must of been about 22 when he went to Egypt. Is this not right.

 

[irosie91]

no doubt you doubt-----why should you value any ancient writing?------your minimind functions independently of all
records and all reality

Most of the stuff in the OT is not supported by historical facts. Even Moses is up to debate, I mean they lived less years back then not more, and also there may of been a group who traveled through the desert and got lost out there and they may of made up laws, like most societies do, but the commandments are really mans aren't they? Moses wanted everyone to worship one God, Yahweh, but of course they just couldn't , they loved the non Hebrew women. I do believe some of the battles, but the new evidence says that the Jews in Babylon were not slaves, which sounds more like it, since so few came back when King Cyrus said they could. They loved the city of Babylon.

Your entire post is conjecture------it is nothing more than ---
"I , Penelope the great, have decided to declare the only
written record of a long history of a people to be entirely
fanciful". Intelligent historians everywhere have learned to
value all scriptural writings. Have you ever heard of
Heinrich Schlieman? Have you ever read the Hindu scriptural writings? BTW----your babble about the Babylonian jews is truly
idiotic. In fact the history of that era is very well recorded and
does not conflict with provable facts at all. -----btw-----from where
do you get "the jews in Babylon were slaves"?? Most of the
jews never went to Babylon. The entire country was not
marched out to Babylon------gee you are dim

You know its not, the Babylon Jews were set free by King Cyrus, and only around 42000 went back to Jerusalem, the rest chose to stay in Babylon. Really so the temple was not destroyed either? Hum.

you got a link for your nonsense? ----you are stating that 420,000 jews held in slavery in Babylon were "set free" by Cyrus--------and they went back to Jerusalem and the rest (no number supplied) stayed in Babylon--------Ok----fine with me--- I am fascinated to find out -------LINK???

for those who do not know----the Babylonian exile did
not wipe the entire population of jews out of Israel/Judea--
it involved the more prominent citizens. By that time
there were already jews living "elsewhere" ----like along the
silk road-----like in Arabia and yemen etc etc. The end of
the exile involved a return of those LEADERS . Politics
is politics----not all people were followers of this or that
"leader" For example some people rejected the
leadership of Ezra------------ask roudy----he probably
knows all about it LINK Penelope------so far I am so
unimpressed

Ok Penelope-----that link please?

The book of Jasher is -----a novella from the midrash----Penelope is
not capable of understanding the concept of midrash

King Cyrus set all the Jews free, but most remained despite that. Benjamin had 10 boys when he went to Egypt , his first marriage was at 10 (according to Jasher) and had 5 boys, his second marriage was at 18 and had 5 boys and he must of been about 22 when he went to Egypt. Is this not right.

no It isn't the statement "king cyrus set all the jews
free" is not correct either. Most of the jews ended up back
in Israel/Judea from wherever they had been-----not all had
been in Babylon. Most were still in Israel/Judea and lots
went back----some did not. Some, in fact, developed a
settlement in the Sinai desert.

 

[Penelope]

Most of the stuff in the OT is not supported by historical facts. Even Moses is up to debate, I mean they lived less years back then not more, and also there may of been a group who traveled through the desert and got lost out there and they may of made up laws, like most societies do, but the commandments are really mans aren't they? Moses wanted everyone to worship one God, Yahweh, but of course they just couldn't , they loved the non Hebrew women. I do believe some of the battles, but the new evidence says that the Jews in Babylon were not slaves, which sounds more like it, since so few came back when King Cyrus said they could. They loved the city of Babylon.

Your entire post is conjecture------it is nothing more than ---
"I , Penelope the great, have decided to declare the only
written record of a long history of a people to be entirely
fanciful". Intelligent historians everywhere have learned to
value all scriptural writings. Have you ever heard of
Heinrich Schlieman? Have you ever read the Hindu scriptural writings? BTW----your babble about the Babylonian jews is truly
idiotic. In fact the history of that era is very well recorded and
does not conflict with provable facts at all. -----btw-----from where
do you get "the jews in Babylon were slaves"?? Most of the
jews never went to Babylon. The entire country was not
marched out to Babylon------gee you are dim

You know its not, the Babylon Jews were set free by King Cyrus, and only around 42000 went back to Jerusalem, the rest chose to stay in Babylon. Really so the temple was not destroyed either? Hum.

you got a link for your nonsense? ----you are stating that 420,000 jews held in slavery in Babylon were "set free" by Cyrus--------and they went back to Jerusalem and the rest (no number supplied) stayed in Babylon--------Ok----fine with me--- I am fascinated to find out -------LINK???

for those who do not know----the Babylonian exile did
not wipe the entire population of jews out of Israel/Judea--
it involved the more prominent citizens. By that time
there were already jews living "elsewhere" ----like along the
silk road-----like in Arabia and yemen etc etc. The end of
the exile involved a return of those LEADERS . Politics
is politics----not all people were followers of this or that
"leader" For example some people rejected the
leadership of Ezra------------ask roudy----he probably
knows all about it LINK Penelope------so far I am so
unimpressed

Ok Penelope-----that link please?

The book of Jasher is -----a novella from the midrash----Penelope is
not capable of understanding the concept of midrash

King Cyrus set all the Jews free, but most remained despite that. Benjamin had 10 boys when he went to Egypt , his first marriage was at 10 (according to Jasher) and had 5 boys, his second marriage was at 18 and had 5 boys and he must of been about 22 when he went to Egypt. Is this not right.

no It isn't the statement "king cyrus set all the jews
free" is not correct either. Most of the jews ended up back
in Israel/Judea from wherever they had been-----not all had
been in Babylon. Most were still in Israel/Judea and lots
went back----some did not. Some, in fact, developed a
settlement in the Sinai desert.

Read EZRA. The Jews did not want to return to Israel to rebuild the temple, too much work. Your right about that they had already scattered about the ME. So the Jew were never made to leave Palestine, they choose to. Only some zealots remained and has another uprising against Rome in the 130's.

 

[irosie91]

Is it true that Benjamin got married at the age of 10 and again at 18 and we know for sure he had 10 sons. but in the book of Jasher he got married at 10, wonder how old his wife was? Do you know Irosie?

There is no book of Jasher. The Bible that is recognized by God is the King James Bible. The Catholic Bible is an abomination. Throw it out.

How would you know about Purim and Hanukah, unless you read the RCC Bible, the book of Esther, and 1 and 2 Macc. Your missing a lot . Have you read the Book of Jasher and Enoch, Esther and the Maccabees, if not , why not.

all of the books you mention are books which are not part of
that which jews call "tanach"-----which is roughly that
which Christians call the Old testament. The book of esther and the book Maccabees and Jasher and enoch ----are just----other books. Unlike the dungheap which spawnd you----jews have been very literate for millennia.
There are lots more-------I believe most of them would fall
under the category of "Midrashic writings" The Odyssey is also not part of the bible-----not even KJV. Don't quote me on that Midrash thing------actually they may not even be Midrash ----but kinda like Midrash---other books----something
someone wrote as a religious discussion

 

[irosie91]

Your entire post is conjecture------it is nothing more than ---
"I , Penelope the great, have decided to declare the only
written record of a long history of a people to be entirely
fanciful". Intelligent historians everywhere have learned to
value all scriptural writings. Have you ever heard of
Heinrich Schlieman? Have you ever read the Hindu scriptural writings? BTW----your babble about the Babylonian jews is truly
idiotic. In fact the history of that era is very well recorded and
does not conflict with provable facts at all. -----btw-----from where
do you get "the jews in Babylon were slaves"?? Most of the
jews never went to Babylon. The entire country was not
marched out to Babylon------gee you are dim

You know its not, the Babylon Jews were set free by King Cyrus, and only around 42000 went back to Jerusalem, the rest chose to stay in Babylon. Really so the temple was not destroyed either? Hum.

you got a link for your nonsense? ----you are stating that 420,000 jews held in slavery in Babylon were "set free" by Cyrus--------and they went back to Jerusalem and the rest (no number supplied) stayed in Babylon--------Ok----fine with me--- I am fascinated to find out -------LINK???

for those who do not know----the Babylonian exile did
not wipe the entire population of jews out of Israel/Judea--
it involved the more prominent citizens. By that time
there were already jews living "elsewhere" ----like along the
silk road-----like in Arabia and yemen etc etc. The end of
the exile involved a return of those LEADERS . Politics
is politics----not all people were followers of this or that
"leader" For example some people rejected the
leadership of Ezra------------ask roudy----he probably
knows all about it LINK Penelope------so far I am so
unimpressed

Ok Penelope-----that link please?

The book of Jasher is -----a novella from the midrash----Penelope is
not capable of understanding the concept of midrash

King Cyrus set all the Jews free, but most remained despite that. Benjamin had 10 boys when he went to Egypt , his first marriage was at 10 (according to Jasher) and had 5 boys, his second marriage was at 18 and had 5 boys and he must of been about 22 when he went to Egypt. Is this not right.

no It isn't the statement "king cyrus set all the jews
free" is not correct either. Most of the jews ended up back
in Israel/Judea from wherever they had been-----not all had
been in Babylon. Most were still in Israel/Judea and lots
went back----some did not. Some, in fact, developed a
settlement in the Sinai desert.

Read EZRA. The Jews did not want to return to Israel to rebuild the temple, too much work. Your right about that they had already scattered about the ME. So the Jew were never made to leave Palestine, they choose to. Only some zealots remained and has another uprising against Rome in the 130's.

wrong again----the people who were forced into exile were the
notables. Thus the country was left bereft of leadership---
that is how invaders did things in those days in order to disable the people they conquered (gee you are ignorant).
Did you ever hear of "sowing the land with salt" --<<< similar
idea in order to wreck the conquered people they wrecked
their agriculture (aren't you glad I am here to teach you
something?) The return from exile was the return of
IMPORTANT LEADERS like Ezra <<< really important guy----ask roudy Not all people were impressed with Ezra.----
jews have a big problem with politics-----they never worship
the "LEADER" -------<<<<that's islam

 

[irosie91]

no doubt you doubt-----why should you value any ancient writing?------your minimind functions independently of all
records and all reality

Most of the stuff in the OT is not supported by historical facts. Even Moses is up to debate, I mean they lived less years back then not more, and also there may of been a group who traveled through the desert and got lost out there and they may of made up laws, like most societies do, but the commandments are really mans aren't they? Moses wanted everyone to worship one God, Yahweh, but of course they just couldn't , they loved the non Hebrew women. I do believe some of the battles, but the new evidence says that the Jews in Babylon were not slaves, which sounds more like it, since so few came back when King Cyrus said they could. They loved the city of Babylon.

Your entire post is conjecture------it is nothing more than ---
"I , Penelope the great, have decided to declare the only
written record of a long history of a people to be entirely
fanciful". Intelligent historians everywhere have learned to
value all scriptural writings. Have you ever heard of
Heinrich Schlieman? Have you ever read the Hindu scriptural writings? BTW----your babble about the Babylonian jews is truly
idiotic. In fact the history of that era is very well recorded and
does not conflict with provable facts at all. -----btw-----from where
do you get "the jews in Babylon were slaves"?? Most of the
jews never went to Babylon. The entire country was not
marched out to Babylon------gee you are dim

You know its not, the Babylon Jews were set free by King Cyrus, and only around 42000 went back to Jerusalem, the rest chose to stay in Babylon. Really so the temple was not destroyed either? Hum.

you got a link for your nonsense? ----you are stating that 420,000 jews held in slavery in Babylon were "set free" by Cyrus--------and they went back to Jerusalem and the rest (no number supplied) stayed in Babylon--------Ok----fine with me--- I am fascinated to find out -------LINK???

for those who do not know----the Babylonian exile did
not wipe the entire population of jews out of Israel/Judea--
it involved the more prominent citizens. By that time
there were already jews living "elsewhere" ----like along the
silk road-----like in Arabia and yemen etc etc. The end of
the exile involved a return of those LEADERS . Politics
is politics----not all people were followers of this or that
"leader" For example some people rejected the
leadership of Ezra------------ask roudy----he probably
knows all about it LINK Penelope------so far I am so
unimpressed

Ok Penelope-----that link please?

The book of Jasher is -----a novella from the midrash----Penelope is
not capable of understanding the concept of midrash

I said only around 42 ,000 returned, along with some singers and slaves.


64 The whole assembly together was forty-two thousand three hundred and sixty, 65 besides their menservants and maidservants, of whom there were seven thouand three hundred and thirty-seven; and they had two hundred male and female singers. 66 Their horses were seven hundred and thirty-six, their mules were two hundred and forty-five, 67 their camels were four hundred and thirty-five, and their asses were six thousand seven hundred and twenty.

Ezra 2 Revised Standard Version (RSV)

List of the Returned Exiles

(life was probably wonderful in Babylon, having servants )

gee you are dim. You have no idea what these words actually mean. In order to read the bible ---you MUST
have some idea as to the language of that time. "only"
42,000 is really a stupid comment ----Populations of
cities did not run into the millions back then nor did a few billion people populate the planet. -----btw----they actually did not practice chattel slavery------you are thinking GONE WITH THE WIND

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Is it true that Benjamin got married at the age of 10 and again at 18 and we know for sure he had 10 sons. but in the book of Jasher he got married at 10, wonder how old his wife was? Do you know Irosie?

There is no book of Jasher. The Bible that is recognized by God is the King James Bible. The Catholic Bible is an abomination. Throw it out.

How would you know about Purim and Hanukah, unless you read the RCC Bible, the book of Esther, and 1 and 2 Macc. Your missing a lot . Have you read the Book of Jasher and Enoch, Esther and the Maccabees, if not , why not.

all of the books you mention are books which are not part of
that which jews call "tanach"-----which is roughly that
which Christians call the Old testament. The book of esther and the book Maccabees and Jasher and enoch ----are just----other books. Unlike the dungheap which spawnd you----jews have been very literate for millennia.
There are lots more-------I believe most of them would fall
under the category of "Midrashic writings" The Odyssey is also not part of the bible-----not even KJV. Don't quote me on that Midrash thing------actually they may not even be Midrash ----but kinda like Midrash---other books----something
someone wrote as a religious discussion

The Book of Esther is in the Bible, Rosie. All these other books she mentions are not in the Old Testament nor the New Testament. Thank you for the lesson on the Midrashic writings. I often learn something new when I read your posts which is a great blessing to me. Thank you again.

 

[Penelope]

Of course they multiplied in Babylon, I mean come on Irosis we are talking your book, your writing and your claim to the land of Palestine. Should we just take your word for it that Palestine was a Jewish nation full of pious Jews. Even among the Jews here, there were divisions among the wealthy and poor Jews. True you were not slaves in Babylon, and many became Persians and became Zoroastrians, which of course became incorporated into the OT, which is why EZRA wrote 2 Gen stories. What the words mean, I can read, there is no reason to know Hebrew, and that is why it died out years ago. So the claim to the land of Palestine was never in just.

 

[Penelope]

Is it true that Benjamin got married at the age of 10 and again at 18 and we know for sure he had 10 sons. but in the book of Jasher he got married at 10, wonder how old his wife was? Do you know Irosie?

There is no book of Jasher. The Bible that is recognized by God is the King James Bible. The Catholic Bible is an abomination. Throw it out.

How would you know about Purim and Hanukah, unless you read the RCC Bible, the book of Esther, and 1 and 2 Macc. Your missing a lot . Have you read the Book of Jasher and Enoch, Esther and the Maccabees, if not , why not.

all of the books you mention are books which are not part of
that which jews call "tanach"-----which is roughly that
which Christians call the Old testament. The book of esther and the book Maccabees and Jasher and enoch ----are just----other books. Unlike the dungheap which spawnd you----jews have been very literate for millennia.
There are lots more-------I believe most of them would fall
under the category of "Midrashic writings" The Odyssey is also not part of the bible-----not even KJV. Don't quote me on that Midrash thing------actually they may not even be Midrash ----but kinda like Midrash---other books----something
someone wrote as a religious discussion

The Book of Esther is in the Bible, Rosie. All these other books she mentions are not in the Old Testament nor the New Testament. Thank you for the lesson on the Midrashic writings. I often learn something new when I read your posts which is a great blessing to me. Thank you again.

Why not just read the Jewish Bible, with the interpretation
The Complete Tanach with Rashi s Commentary - Tanakh Online - Torah - Bible