Texas Man Cleared of Shooting Burglars

[M14 Shooter]

But in reality, it wasn't self defense.

According to the law, it was.

 

[Ravi]

That gets back to Texas law. Defense of others and property has also been around a long time. A State passing a law to allow for those isn't going to come anywhere close to being a due process issue. I don't know why the need is felt to make this a Constitutional issue, but it simply isn't.

Well, I guess I'll have to take your word for it, since I'm not clear on the issue. Thanks for the discussion, it was interesting all the same.

Still, nothing will convince me that this is a good law.

 

[nomdeplume]

Well, I guess I'll have to take your word for it, since I'm not clear on the issue. Thanks for the discussion, it was interesting all the same.

Still, nothing will convince me that this is a good law.

Don't mess with Texas, then.

 

[Care4all]

Which you think you know only because you're looking at it after the fact. Thus, hindsight.


He did -- to see what as going on.
He has a right to do that.


Which he had the right to do.


There's no way you could make that assessment during the event, which makes said assessment meaningless.

can you show in texas law WHERE he had this ''right'' to kill the burglars of his neighbor's house....

please show the specific sentence that you think applies to this ''right'' of his to kill both men, please.

he was TOLD more than 10-20 times by the police dispatch NOT TO GO OUT SIDE.....how do you rectify that....in your head????

out of 10 other citizens...... women, men, or seniors.....how MANY of the 10 would have disobeyed the cop's orders and go outside with a shotgun and immediately shoot the perps to kill, in the back???

what he did was NOT REASONABLE....

his neighbor never asked him to protect his house, which is PART of the neighbor protecting another's property law.

AND if mr horn provoked the perps there are other consequences in the law against him....

reasonably, though...out of 10 random citizens, how many would have disobeyed the police and kill 2 people in cold blood by shooting them in the back with a shotgun, for a tv of their neighbor's?

mr horn was nuts, he temporarily lost his mind imo!!!!

care

 

[Anguille]

“At first, the officer was assessing the situation. Then he was worried Horn might mistake him for the ‘wheel man’ (get-away driver). He ducked at one point.”

Ha! Even the cop was afraid of this psycho on a killing spree! Yet, he's free to go do it again.

 

[Gunny]

None of this changes the fact that:
-He had a right to go outside
-He had a right to shoot the criminals
-There's no way you could make the assessmet --during the event-- that he was not a victim, which makes said assessment meaningless.


Given that murder is the unlawful killing of a human being -- no more than chosing to abort twins murders two people.

The FACT is, nowhere does Texas law state one may shoot burglars of his neighbor's unoccupied house. You can shoot someone breaking into YOUR house because it poses a possible threat to your life.

If this clown was threatened in any way, it's because HE put himself in the postion to be threatened. He has a right to go outside but was also instructed by law enforcement personnel at the time to not do so and staying inside would have circumvented any real or perceived need for action on his part.

Had the neighbor even been home I could see justification if he thought another human being's life (his neighbor) was threatened. As it stands, he shot two burglars in the back who presented no threat to him and only got away with it on the technicality that they physcally were on his property when he did so.

I want to know which you foaming at the mouth, bloodthirsty knuckleheads has ever had to drop the hammer on another human being? While you're talking all your shit you better understand one thing: if and when you do, it's something you CANNOT take back. Ever. It's enough living with the knowledge that you have had to take someone's life for WHATEVER reason. If you have any conscience at all, you damned-well better be right or you won't be living with yourself very well. You just made someone all he's EVER going to be.

And before any of you hotdogs start on me, I'm a gun-totin' redneck from Hell and if you come in my house you WILL get a gun stuck in your face and if you so much as twitch the wrong way, you WILL shot. But that's me protecting my life and the lives of my family. If you turn around and haul ass back the way you came I'm not going to fire just so I can make the front page of the NRA newsrag.

 

[Anguille]

The FACT is, nowhere does Texas law state one may shoot burglars of his neighbor's unoccupied house. You can shoot someone breaking into YOUR house because it poses a possible threat to your life.

If this clown was threatened in any way, it's because HE put himself in the postion to be threatened. He has a right to go outside but was also instructed by law enforcement personnel at the time to not do so and staying inside would have circumvented any real or perceived need for action on his part.

Had the neighbor even been home I could see justification if he thought another human being's life (his neighbor) was threatened. As it stands, he shot two burglars in the back who presented no threat to him and only got away with it on the technicality that they physcally were on his property when he did so.

I want to know which you foaming at the mouth, bloodthirsty knuckleheads has ever had to drop the hammer on another human being? While you're talking all your shit you better understand one thing: if and when you do, it's something you CANNOT take back. Ever. It's enough living with the knowledge that you have had to take someone's life for WHATEVER reason. If you have any conscience at all, you damned-well better be right or you won't be living with yourself very well. You just made someone all he's EVER going to be.

And before any of you hotdogs start on me, I'm a gun-totin' redneck from Hell and if you come in my house you WILL get a gun stuck in your face and if you so much as twitch the wrong way, you WILL shot. But that's me protecting my life and the lives of my family. If you turn around and haul ass back the way you came I'm not going to fire just so I can make the front page of the NRA newsrag.

I'm glad there are still some sensible people living in Texas.

 

[Shogun]

when did 911 operators become law enforcement. gunny, i'd suggest you remember that Joh Horn is off scott free. It's easy to blather on about what he SHOULD have done or what YOU might have done different this side of knowing that the guy rushing him was unarmed. I would hope that you are not the type to hide behind a curtain while your neighbor is getting robbed.

 

[BrianH]

The FACT is, nowhere does Texas law state one may shoot burglars of his neighbor's unoccupied house. You can shoot someone breaking into YOUR house because it poses a possible threat to your life.

If this clown was threatened in any way, it's because HE put himself in the postion to be threatened. He has a right to go outside but was also instructed by law enforcement personnel at the time to not do so and staying inside would have circumvented any real or perceived need for action on his part.

Had the neighbor even been home I could see justification if he thought another human being's life (his neighbor) was threatened. As it stands, he shot two burglars in the back who presented no threat to him and only got away with it on the technicality that they physcally were on his property when he did so.

I want to know which you foaming at the mouth, bloodthirsty knuckleheads has ever had to drop the hammer on another human being? While you're talking all your shit you better understand one thing: if and when you do, it's something you CANNOT take back. Ever. It's enough living with the knowledge that you have had to take someone's life for WHATEVER reason. If you have any conscience at all, you damned-well better be right or you won't be living with yourself very well. You just made someone all he's EVER going to be.

And before any of you hotdogs start on me, I'm a gun-totin' redneck from Hell and if you come in my house you WILL get a gun stuck in your face and if you so much as twitch the wrong way, you WILL shot. But that's me protecting my life and the lives of my family. If you turn around and haul ass back the way you came I'm not going to fire just so I can make the front page of the NRA newsrag.

I agree that he unneccessarily put himself in harms way, however Gunny...

Texas Penal Code

"§ 9.42. DEADLY FORCE TO PROTECT PROPERTY. A person is
justified in using deadly force against another to protect land or
tangible, movable property:
(1) if he would be justified in using force against the
other under Section 9.41; and
(2) when and to the degree he reasonably believes the
deadly force is immediately necessary:
(A) to prevent the other's imminent commission of
arson, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the
nighttime, or criminal mischief during the nighttime; or
(B) to prevent the other who is fleeing
immediately after committing burglary, robbery, aggravated
robbery, or theft during the nighttime from escaping with the
property; and
(3) he reasonably believes that:
(A) the land or property cannot be protected or
recovered by any other means; or
(B) the use of force other than deadly force to
protect or recover the land or property would expose the actor or
another to a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury."

"§ 9.43. PROTECTION OF THIRD PERSON'S PROPERTY. A person
is justified in using force or deadly force against another to
protect land or tangible, movable property of a third person if,
under the circumstances as he reasonably believes them to be, the
actor would be justified under Section 9.41 or 9.42 in using force
or deadly force to protect his own land or property and:
(1) the actor reasonably believes the unlawful
interference constitutes attempted or consummated theft of or
criminal mischief to the tangible, movable property; or
(2) the actor reasonably believes that:
(A) the third person has requested his protection
of the land or property;
(B) he has a legal duty to protect the third
person's land or property; or
(C) the third person whose land or property he
uses force or deadly force to protect is the actor's spouse, parent,
or child, resides with the actor, or is under the actor's care"

Texas Penal Code - Texas Attorney Resources - Texas Laws

Unfortunately, there is a lot of Gray areas....and you can use deadly force to stop a third-persons stuff from being stolen.

 

[BrianH]

I'm glad there are still some sensible people living in Texas.

It's not about being sensible or not sensible Anguille, whether the law is stupid or not, or immoral or not, it doesn't change the fact that he was within the law. Personally, I think he got away with murder because he walked outside and put himself in harms way. But, my feelings don't change what the law is right now.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

I repeat, if more people take matters in to their own hands and make crime dangerous to the health of the criminal, crime will go down.

 

[BrianH]

I repeat, if more people take matters in to their own hands and make crime dangerous to the health of the criminal, crime will go down.

I also agree with this, but it depends on the "matter" in which they take it into their hands that will decide their fate. Personally, I think every scum like these two men should be shot or locked away forever, but, until the law gives people the right, I guess we'll just have to wait.

 

[Gunny]

when did 911 operators become law enforcement. gunny, i'd suggest you remember that Joh Horn is off scott free. It's easy to blather on about what he SHOULD have done or what YOU might have done different this side of knowing that the guy rushing him was unarmed. I would hope that you are not the type to hide behind a curtain while your neighbor is getting robbed.

Did you read my post? Just to clarify, I made a statement to the effect that IF he felt his neighbor was threatened I could see his actions being justified. So no, odds are good if I knew my neighbor was in danger I'd go bail her ass out. Likewise, if I knew she wasn't home, I'd call the police and not take an unneccessary risk. What possessions do we own that cannot be replaced?

But you needn't concern yourself with my personal bravery. I've got all the right crap to wear on my uniform that says I'm fearless to a fault and it is ingrained in the mind of jarhead to protect.

If the guy was rushing Horn, how'd he get shot in the back? There's an interesting question that begs an answer.

Don't confuse my disagreeing with this decision because of the particular circumstances that I disagree with the right to defend one's self. I just don't see that here. I see a diehard redneck -- probably hates 'em "beaners" --itching for an excuse to prove he ain't takin' no shit and by God they ain't robbin' his neighbor either.

And I don't see why proponents of gun ownership and the right to self defense are defending him. HE makes us look bad, and HE is the next posterboy for the anti-gun types. And if you think he doesn't, I suggest you review this thread.

 

[Ravi]

I repeat, if more people take matters in to their own hands and make crime dangerous to the health of the criminal, crime will go down.

Once again, you are being a hypocrite about presumed innocence.

Though if he was shooting someone from the FLDS, that'd be just dandy, right? Because we all know they are guilty.

 

[Gunny]

I agree that he unneccessarily put himself in harms way, however Gunny...

Texas Penal Code

"§ 9.42. DEADLY FORCE TO PROTECT PROPERTY. A person is
justified in using deadly force against another to protect land or
tangible, movable property:
(1) if he would be justified in using force against the
other under Section 9.41; and
(2) when and to the degree he reasonably believes the
deadly force is immediately necessary:
(A) to prevent the other's imminent commission of
arson, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the
nighttime, or criminal mischief during the nighttime; or
(B) to prevent the other who is fleeing
immediately after committing burglary, robbery, aggravated
robbery, or theft during the nighttime from escaping with the
property; and
(3) he reasonably believes that:
(A) the land or property cannot be protected or
recovered by any other means; or
(B) the use of force other than deadly force to
protect or recover the land or property would expose the actor or
another to a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury."

"§ 9.43. PROTECTION OF THIRD PERSON'S PROPERTY. A person
is justified in using force or deadly force against another to
protect land or tangible, movable property of a third person if,
under the circumstances as he reasonably believes them to be, the
actor would be justified under Section 9.41 or 9.42 in using force
or deadly force to protect his own land or property and:
(1) the actor reasonably believes the unlawful
interference constitutes attempted or consummated theft of or
criminal mischief to the tangible, movable property; or
(2) the actor reasonably believes that:
(A) the third person has requested his protection
of the land or property;
(B) he has a legal duty to protect the third
person's land or property; or
(C) the third person whose land or property he
uses force or deadly force to protect is the actor's spouse, parent,
or child, resides with the actor, or is under the actor's care"

Texas Penal Code - Texas Attorney Resources - Texas Laws

Unfortunately, there is a lot of Gray areas....and you can use deadly force to stop a third-persons stuff from being stolen.

Yeah, the "Castle Law." YOUR castle, not your neighbor's. I don't suggest you try this at home to see if you can get away with it. The fact is, if someone is fleeing, they present no threat to you and I'll be damned if I'm going to shoot someone dead for boosting my piggy bank or DVD player. I can get new ones.

Before you're so quick to start blasting, I suggest any of you go talk to a VA counselor. They have to deal with people who think it's "Just like John Wayne poppin' the bad guys." It ain't. Even if you're 100% in the right, it ain't.

 

[Gunny]

I repeat, if more people take matters in to their own hands and make crime dangerous to the health of the criminal, crime will go down.

I also agree with this, but it depends on the "matter" in which they take it into their hands that will decide their fate. Personally, I think every scum like these two men should be shot or locked away forever, but, until the law gives people the right, I guess we'll just have to wait.

I disagree and this incident is a perfect example. This guy shot two thieves in the back and killed them. You don't think that's a just a bit much considering the crime?

Cath them and beat their asses. If you're going to play Davy Crockett, try actually getting the drop on them so they CAN'T run and wait for the police.

I'm not being sympathetic to criminals in the least. But I believe punishment should be comensurate to the crime. Being shot and killed for stealing is just a bit too much punishment in my book.

 

[dilloduck]

I disagree and this incident is a perfect example. This guy shot two thieves in the back and killed them. You don't think that's a just a bit much considering the crime?

Cath them and beat their asses. If you're going to play Davy Crockett, try actually getting the drop on them so they CAN'T run and wait for the police.

I'm not being sympathetic to criminals in the least. But I believe punishment should be comensurate to the crime. Being shot and killed for stealing is just a bit too much punishment in my book.

Do you think this old fart was going to chase them down on his horse and lasso them ? Our law enforcement is handcuffed, inadequate and broke. Peopel are angry and frustrated watching criminals just walk.

 

[Charles_Main]

This case is unbelievable, I am all for the right to self defense, but the 9/11 tape could not be more clear. MR. Horn had no reason to fear for his life, and shot 2 people in the back. the fact he gets off is utterly disgusting.

 

[Gunny]

Do you think this old fart was going to chase them down on his horse and lasso them ? Our law enforcement is handcuffed, inadequate and broke. Peopel are angry and frustrated watching criminals just walk.

Hell dillo, I actually thought it was YOU.

 

[Taomon]

I repeat, if more people take matters in to their own hands and make crime dangerous to the health of the criminal, crime will go down.

Do you believe that we should allow posses to hang people they deem as criminal (and extrapolated to evil)?