Texas Man Cleared of Shooting Burglars

[M14 Shooter]

They could probably try to make the case that the guy who shot the burgulars violated their civil rights, if they want to make a Federal case about it....
Not the kind of same case, of course, but if somebody takes it into their heads to do that in the Justice Department, I expect they could charge the guy on some technicality or the other.

That would be a civil, not a criminal case. Thus, there would be no charges, no jail time, no felony conviction, etc.

 

[Ravi]

I wouldn't be a man if you paid me. But I'd have no problem telling the guy to his face what I think of him.

He wasn't a victim. He was never in danger. Unless they were carrying a nuclear device, he was safe in his bedroom the entire time. He made the choice to go outside and kill them.

 

[Ravi]

Not a lot, apparently...

Due process is a restriction on the government, a restraint that keeps it from acting arbitrarily against its citizens.

It doesnt have any bearing whatsoever on the acts of individuals

So Texass isn't a government that made a law to allow this guy to get away with murder?

 

[politicsezine]

I have no problem with a woman carrying a gun to protect herself from rapists. Its her choice.

I have no problem with someone shooting a person who is threatening their family with a gun or a knife.

Shooting two unarmed people in the back for theft... not even Muslim countries do that. Chop one of their hands off maybe, depending on the country.

In America apparently its open season on non-violent thieves... can't wait to see some security guards shooting shoplifters.

 

[M14 Shooter]

I wouldn't be a man if you paid me. But I'd have no problem telling the guy to his face what I think of him.

Said from the safety of home. I'm sure that when the time came, you'd cower behind your skirt.

He wasn't a victim. He was never in danger. Unless they were carrying a nuclear device, he was safe in his bedroom the entire time. He made the choice to go outside and kill them.

When you have something that's not based in hindsight, you'll have something worth saying.

You want to protect criminals from their victims. I cannot imagine why.

 

[M14 Shooter]

So Texass isn't a government that made a law to allow this guy to get away with murder?

The law itself is due process, in terms of action taken by the state in this instance.
The actions of individuals are not restrained by due process.
Understand?

 

[Steerpike]

They could probably try to make the case that the guy who shot the burgulars violated their civil rights, if they want to make a Federal case about it.

No they couldn't because the guy isn't a cop or other government actor. A private citizen can't violate your civil rights (although a person could violate federal civil rights legislation, which is another matter).

 

[Steerpike]

It seems like it violates due process, but what do I know?

Only the government can do that, not a private citizen.

 

[Ravi]

Said from the safety of home. I'm sure that when the time came, you'd cower behind your skirt.


When you have something that's not based in hindsight, you'll have something worth saying.

You want to protect criminals from their victims. I cannot imagine why.

No hindsight involved. He was safe in his house. He chose to go outside and kill them. He was never a victim of anything.

 

[M14 Shooter]

No hindsight involved. He was safe in his house

Which you think you know only because you're looking at it after the fact. Thus, hindsight.

He chose to go outside

He did -- to see what as going on.
He has a right to do that.

and kill them.

Which he had the right to do.

He was never a victim of anything.

There's no way you could make that assessment during the event, which makes said assessment meaningless.

 

[Ravi]

Only the government can do that, not a private citizen.

Sure? According to Wikipedia: Due process has also been construed to generally protect the individual so that statutes, regulations, and enforcement actions must ensure that no one is deprived of "life, liberty, or property" without a fair opportunity to affect the judgment or result.

 

[Ravi]

Which you think you know only because you're looking at it after the fact. Thus, hindsight.


He did -- to see what as going on.
He has a right to do that.


Which he had the right to do.


There's no way you could make that assessment during the event, which makes said assessment meaningless.

It's all on the 911 tape. He was safe in his house. He had no need to go outside, in fact he was told repeatedly not to go outside. He chose to go outside and murder two people.

 

[Steerpike]

Sure? According to Wikipedia: Due process has also been construed to generally protect the individual so that statutes, regulations, and enforcement actions must ensure that no one is deprived of "life, liberty, or property" without a fair opportunity to affect the judgment or result.

Yeah, I'm positive. If you go into court and try to bring a Constitutional claim (like due process) against a private party it will get tossed out because there is no "state action." The only part of the Constitution that constrains private individuals is the 13th amendment, which prohibits involuntary servitude.

You could try to challenge the law on due process grounds (which would fail) but you couldn't bring any type of Constitutional claims against Mr. Horn.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Sure? According to Wikipedia: Due process has also been construed to generally protect the individual so that statutes, regulations, and enforcement actions must ensure that no one is deprived of "life, liberty, or property" without a fair opportunity to affect the judgment or result.

All of which deal with actions of the government, not individuals.

 

[Ravi]

Yeah, I'm positive. If you go into court and try to bring a Constitutional claim (like due process) against a private party it will get tossed out because there is no "state action." The only part of the Constitution that constrains private individuals is the 13th amendment, which prohibits involuntary servitude.

No, I'm talking about the state of Texass, not the individual. The state, by passing this law, denied the perps due process.

 

[Steerpike]

No, I'm talking about the state of Texass, not the individual. The state, by passing this law, denied the perps due process.

Not going to fly. Self-defense has been long recognized. I don't think you'd ever get a court to say that having a self-defense law on the books denies due process. It's simply not a Constitutional issue. You'd have to go after Horn civilly, and if you want the law changed get the legislature to change it.

 

[M14 Shooter]

It's all on the 911 tape. He was safe in his house. He had no need to go outside, in fact he was told repeatedly not to go outside. .

None of this changes the fact that:
-He had a right to go outside
-He had a right to shoot the criminals
-There's no way you could make the assessmet --during the event-- that he was not a victim, which makes said assessment meaningless.

He chose to go outside and murder two people

Given that murder is the unlawful killing of a human being -- no more than chosing to abort twins murders two people.

 

[Ravi]

Not going to fly. Self-defense has been long recognized. I don't think you'd ever get a court to say that having a self-defense law on the books denies due process. It's simply not a Constitutional issue. You'd have to go after Horn civilly, and if you want the law changed get the legislature to change it.

But in reality, it wasn't self defense.

 

[M14 Shooter]

No, I'm talking about the state of Texass, not the individual. The state, by passing this law, denied the perps due process.

You clearly don't understand due process.
But please, continue to happily display your ignorance.

 

[Steerpike]

But in reality, it wasn't self defense.

That gets back to Texas law. Defense of others and property has also been around a long time. A State passing a law to allow for those isn't going to come anywhere close to being a due process issue. I don't know why the need is felt to make this a Constitutional issue, but it simply isn't.