The attempt to refrain the gun control debate

[asterism]

I have been listening to the pundits talk about the need to get guns out of the hands of crazy people, and how happy they are that Obama said something needs to be done to stop tragedies like the one today. What, exactly, are the alternatives? We have no way to determine if someone is going to flip out and go on a shooting spree. Even if we did, what are we going to do? If we put them in a database that prevents them from buying a gun what is to stop them from stealing one? Should we require everyone to be tested, and lock everyone who the tests identify as a danger up? Do we really want to create a society that locks people up because they might do something?

The way I see it is we have two choices, either deny everyone freedom, or accept the fact that crazy people are going to do crazy things. If anyone has an actual alternative to those options I would love to hear it.

1) Rigorous screening for anyone who wants to buy a new gun.
2) Licenses that need to be renewed for everyone who already has one.
3) Give the ATF some real teeth when going after those who don't comply with the law.

Look, every other industrialized nation except ours limits who can own a gun, they are every bit as free as we are (maybe more so in some respects) and they have a fraction of the gun deaths we have.

This is not rocket science.

Ever heard of Switzerland?

snopes.com: Gun Ownership in Switzerland

 

[KissMy]

If you own a gun, you or a member of your family is seven times more likely to die of gun violence. Why? Because a gun in the house is much more likely to be used by an angry spouse or depressed teenager to kill themselves or others, than it is to be used for self defense.

While we're making up statistics:

The above "fact" is said 93% of the time by people with no firearm experience.

It does happen a lot. Statistics on Guns in the Home & Safe Storage shows it doubles the risk. It happened to me. It has happened to a few people I know. Don't let it happen to you.

LOCK YOUR GUNS AWAY unless you have it concealed on your person. Never leave them lying around for someone to grab in a fit of anger. It takes a level head & a lot of restraint to be a CCW gun owner. Some don't have what it takes & if the weapon is in sight at the wrong time, you may be paying for that mistake.

 

[hazlnut]

I have been listening to the pundits talk about the need to get guns out of the hands of crazy people, and how happy they are that Obama said something needs to be done to stop tragedies like the one today. What, exactly, are the alternatives? We have no way to determine if someone is going to flip out and go on a shooting spree. Even if we did, what are we going to do? If we put them in a database that prevents them from buying a gun what is to stop them from stealing one? Should we require everyone to be tested, and lock everyone who the tests identify as a danger up? Do we really want to create a society that locks people up because they might do something?

The way I see it is we have two choices, either deny everyone freedom, or accept the fact that crazy people are going to do crazy things. If anyone has an actual alternative to those options I would love to hear it.

Asshole. Scum.

you just pissed on the parents who lost their children today.

there's a special place in hell for the NRA and Wayne LaPierre.

I bet the guy that shot them pissed them off a lot more than I did.

Pissed ON.

Learn to read, tard.

 

[Cecilie1200]

If you own a gun, you or a member of your family is seven times more likely to die of gun violence. Why? Because a gun in the house is much more likely to be used by an angry spouse or depressed teenager to kill themselves or others, than it is to be used for self defense.

While we're making up statistics:

The above "fact" is said 93% of the time by people with no firearm experience.

It does happen a lot. Statistics on Guns in the Home & Safe Storage shows it doubles the risk. It happened to me. It has happened to a few people I know. Don't let it happen to you.

LOCK YOUR GUNS AWAY unless you have it concealed on your person. Never leave them lying around for someone to grab in a fit of anger. It takes a level head & a lot of restraint to be a CCW gun owner. Some don't have what it takes & if the weapon is in sight at the wrong time, you may be paying for that mistake.

Ooh, citing the website of a gun control advocacy group. THAT'LL convince us.

The study that website is working off of has long since been debunked as badly-flawed. Nevertheless, it continues to be cited by gun control groups.

 

[The Rabbi]

I have been listening to the pundits talk about the need to get guns out of the hands of crazy people, and how happy they are that Obama said something needs to be done to stop tragedies like the one today. What, exactly, are the alternatives? We have no way to determine if someone is going to flip out and go on a shooting spree. Even if we did, what are we going to do? If we put them in a database that prevents them from buying a gun what is to stop them from stealing one? Should we require everyone to be tested, and lock everyone who the tests identify as a danger up? Do we really want to create a society that locks people up because they might do something?

The way I see it is we have two choices, either deny everyone freedom, or accept the fact that crazy people are going to do crazy things. If anyone has an actual alternative to those options I would love to hear it.

Would be better to keep guns from young men under the age of 30. They (young men) seem to have the big problems and all the recent mass killers were under the age of thirty.

If there is not something done, the crazy people with the easy access to weapons where they can kill quickly and easily, those people will define the gun control debate.

Is that what the NRA wants? To allow the crazy people to dictate the gun control debate.
You gun lovers need to come up with some solution or approach to get this situation under better control.

It is you NRAers who are so afraid of control. Yet the easy acces to weapons and the mass killings will be what dictates gun control in the future.

You realize every recruit in the military handed a select fire rifle is under 30, right?

 

[The Rabbi]

Asshole. Scum.

you just pissed on the parents who lost their children today.

there's a special place in hell for the NRA and Wayne LaPierre.

I bet the guy that shot them pissed them off a lot more than I did.

Pissed ON.

Learn to read, tard.

Who appointed you to speak for the parents, moran?

 

[JoeB131]

1) Rigorous screening for anyone who wants to buy a new gun.
2) Licenses that need to be renewed for everyone who already has one.
3) Give the ATF some real teeth when going after those who don't comply with the law.

Look, every other industrialized nation except ours limits who can own a gun, they are every bit as free as we are (maybe more so in some respects) and they have a fraction of the gun deaths we have.

This is not rocket science.

Lets see.

1. Background checks, already done.
2. What kind of licenses?
3. They demonstrated their teeth during WACO when they killed 76 men, women, and children.

Can you explain why the ATF killing 20 children is good, but a guy that steals a gun killing 20 children means we need to give the ATF more power?

You mean other than they were whacked out, psycho cultists who killed themselves?

Waco was a mass suicide because a crazy person wouldn't give up his harem of child brides. Not that you can really blame Koresh, they do really bad things to child molestors in prison. Why the rest of them went along with it is kind of a mystery, but hey, religion can make you stupid like that.

As for background checks, if teh VA Tech Shooter and Loughner and Lanza and Joker Holmes could get guns, those background checks are insufficient.

 

[JoeB131]

You realize every recruit in the military handed a select fire rifle is under 30, right?

I used to be the guy handing them out. So let's look at that.

When I used to hand out rifles as a Supply Sergeant, my troops had to sign a roster and present a weapons' card. They were under close supervision of their NCO's, who were under supervision by their officers. Ammo was restricted to ranges, and no one was allowed to walk off that range with a live round or an expended shell casing. ("No Brass, No Ammo, Sergeant!") Said ammo was then turned back into the Class V supply depot, which was under heavy guard.

Oh, before we ever got to that part, said recruit had to undergo a drug test, a background check, a criminal background search, a thorough physical examination. Furthermore, before they were ever allowed to touch a gun in the VERY CONTROLLED circumstances I outlined above, they were put through rigorous training and supervision, and if someone was as crazy as Loughner or Lanza, they'd have been weeded out the first time a DI yelled at them.

A perfect system? Hardly?Beter than what we are currently doing? Yup.

 

[The Rabbi]

You realize every recruit in the military handed a select fire rifle is under 30, right?

I used to be the guy handing them out. So let's look at that.

When I used to hand out rifles as a Supply Sergeant, my troops had to sign a roster and present a weapons' card. They were under close supervision of their NCO's, who were under supervision by their officers. Ammo was restricted to ranges, and no one was allowed to walk off that range with a live round or an expended shell casing. ("No Brass, No Ammo, Sergeant!") Said ammo was then turned back into the Class V supply depot, which was under heavy guard.

Oh, before we ever got to that part, said recruit had to undergo a drug test, a background check, a criminal background search, a thorough physical examination. Furthermore, before they were ever allowed to touch a gun in the VERY CONTROLLED circumstances I outlined above, they were put through rigorous training and supervision, and if someone was as crazy as Loughner or Lanza, they'd have been weeded out the first time a DI yelled at them.

A perfect system? Hardly?Beter than what we are currently doing? Yup.

ANd how many soldiers have committed suicide since coming back from Iraq and "stan? Yeah, good job weeding them out.
Meanwhile, private citizens have 2A rights to keep and bear arms that shall not be infringed.

 

[RoadVirus]

Lanza reportedly tried to buy rifle, was denied - Video on TODAY.com

So the law worked? Oh boy...that's going to rain on the Libturd parade.

 

[thanatos144]

Never let a tragedy go to waste.....That is a democrats motto.

 

[The Rabbi]

Lanza reportedly tried to buy rifle, was denied - Video on TODAY.com

So the law worked? Oh boy...that's going to rain on the Libturd parade.

Yes. The law was clearly effective at keeping guns out of the hands of criminals. Hah.

We are dealing with a determined madman who was not afraid to die. There is no stopping a determined madman except with force at the time of his actions. None.

 

[thanatos144]

Hazelnut you pussy don't private message me about respect when you don't even have enough to allow a response you asshole. I don't use dead kids that would be your side.

 

[KissMy]

1) Rigorous screening for anyone who wants to buy a new gun.
2) Licenses that need to be renewed for everyone who already has one.
3) Give the ATF some real teeth when going after those who don't comply with the law.

Look, every other industrialized nation except ours limits who can own a gun, they are every bit as free as we are (maybe more so in some respects) and they have a fraction of the gun deaths we have.

This is not rocket science.

Lets see.

1. Background checks, already done.
2. What kind of licenses?
3. They demonstrated their teeth during WACO when they killed 76 men, women, and children.

Can you explain why the ATF killing 20 children is good, but a guy that steals a gun killing 20 children means we need to give the ATF more power?

You mean other than they were whacked out, psycho cultists who killed themselves?

Waco was a mass suicide because a crazy person wouldn't give up his harem of child brides. Not that you can really blame Koresh, they do really bad things to child molestors in prison. Why the rest of them went along with it is kind of a mystery, but hey, religion can make you stupid like that.

As for background checks, if teh VA Tech Shooter and Loughner and Lanza and Joker Holmes could get guns, those background checks are insufficient.

If they killed themselves, then why was the government gassing, shooting, bombing & burning them?

These people never harmed anyone. If the government wanted David, they should have issued a summons or warrant telling him to come in or had the sheriff picked him up like they do everyone else. Instead they loaded up horse trailers with heavily armed ATF agents, rolled in & tried to massacre them. Well they did eventually succeed at the massacre.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

1) Rigorous screening for anyone who wants to buy a new gun.
2) Licenses that need to be renewed for everyone who already has one.
3) Give the ATF some real teeth when going after those who don't comply with the law.

Look, every other industrialized nation except ours limits who can own a gun, they are every bit as free as we are (maybe more so in some respects) and they have a fraction of the gun deaths we have.

This is not rocket science.

Lets see.

1. Background checks, already done.
2. What kind of licenses?
3. They demonstrated their teeth during WACO when they killed 76 men, women, and children.

Can you explain why the ATF killing 20 children is good, but a guy that steals a gun killing 20 children means we need to give the ATF more power?

You mean other than they were whacked out, psycho cultists who killed themselves?

Waco was a mass suicide because a crazy person wouldn't give up his harem of child brides. Not that you can really blame Koresh, they do really bad things to child molestors in prison. Why the rest of them went along with it is kind of a mystery, but hey, religion can make you stupid like that.

As for background checks, if teh VA Tech Shooter and Loughner and Lanza and Joker Holmes could get guns, those background checks are insufficient.

Lanza stole the gun he used, care to explain how background checks prevent theft?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

You realize every recruit in the military handed a select fire rifle is under 30, right?

I used to be the guy handing them out. So let's look at that.

When I used to hand out rifles as a Supply Sergeant, my troops had to sign a roster and present a weapons' card. They were under close supervision of their NCO's, who were under supervision by their officers. Ammo was restricted to ranges, and no one was allowed to walk off that range with a live round or an expended shell casing. ("No Brass, No Ammo, Sergeant!") Said ammo was then turned back into the Class V supply depot, which was under heavy guard.

Oh, before we ever got to that part, said recruit had to undergo a drug test, a background check, a criminal background search, a thorough physical examination. Furthermore, before they were ever allowed to touch a gun in the VERY CONTROLLED circumstances I outlined above, they were put through rigorous training and supervision, and if someone was as crazy as Loughner or Lanza, they'd have been weeded out the first time a DI yelled at them.

A perfect system? Hardly?Beter than what we are currently doing? Yup.

I kinda doubt that is happening in Afghanistan right now.

I also know for a fact that when I was in the Navy all they required before they handed me a 45 when I went on duty was that I relieved the guy that was there before me. I don't recall ever signing for it, or getting a weapon's card.

Just saying.

 

[Valerie]

The adult woman found at the secondary crime scene was related to the shooter, a police news release said, and many media outlets have reported it was the shooter's mother, Nancy Lanza.


POLICE INVESTIGATE THE GUNS

Nancy Lanza legally owned a Sig Sauer and a Glock, both handguns of models commonly used by police, and a military-style Bushmaster .223 M4 carbine, according to law enforcement officials who also believe Adam Lanza used at least some of those weapons.

"We're investigating the history of each and every weapon and we will know every single thing about those weapons," Vance said.

Nancy Lanza was an avid gun collector who once showed him a "really nice, high-end rifle" that she had purchased, said Dan Holmes, owner of a landscaping business who recently decorated her yard with Christmas garlands and lights. "She said she would often go target shooting with her kids."

Police find good evidence on motive for Connecticut school massacre | Reuters

According to reports, he used his mothers legally owned pistol and left the semi-automatic rifle in the car...

Lanza reportedly tried to buy rifle, was denied - Video on TODAY.com

correction:

Updated, 4:16 p.m.

Lt. Vance told reporters at the press conference that the weapon used "most of the time" by the shooter was a Bushmaster AR-15 assault-type weapon with high capacity magazines. A Glock 10 millimeter and a Sig Sauer 9 millimeter, all of which had "multiple magazines and additional ammunition," was also in the shooter's possession.

Vance said that a rifle was also recovered from Lanza's vehicle, which was parked outside of the school.


Police Release Identity of Gunman in Sandy Hook Shooting; Mother as Final Victim - Newtown, CT Patch

 

[JoeB131]

Lets see.

1. Background checks, already done.
2. What kind of licenses?
3. They demonstrated their teeth during WACO when they killed 76 men, women, and children.

Can you explain why the ATF killing 20 children is good, but a guy that steals a gun killing 20 children means we need to give the ATF more power?

You mean other than they were whacked out, psycho cultists who killed themselves?

Waco was a mass suicide because a crazy person wouldn't give up his harem of child brides. Not that you can really blame Koresh, they do really bad things to child molestors in prison. Why the rest of them went along with it is kind of a mystery, but hey, religion can make you stupid like that.

As for background checks, if teh VA Tech Shooter and Loughner and Lanza and Joker Holmes could get guns, those background checks are insufficient.

Lanza stole the gun he used, care to explain how background checks prevent theft?

He stole it from his MOTHER. From the house he lived in. So maybe a background check wouldn't have gotten him, or maybe it would, because it's starting to look like his mother was as fucking crazy as he was.

(Hey, I notice you've backed away from the Koresh as victim thing.... good, you were really making yourself look stupid with that one.)

 

[beretta304]

Days of debate here on this topic and lots of nastiness back and forth and a cliche really says it all as lame as it is....guns don't kill, people do.

That's it in a nutshell.

You'll never control the sickness in people's minds.

A person can kill with a car, truck, bomb,...etc., etc.. Where there is a will, there is a way.

Ban any gun you wnat and criminals and crazies will find a way to get one.

 

[JoeB131]

Days of debate here on this topic and lots of nastiness back and forth and a cliche really says it all as lame as it is....guns don't kill, people do.

That's it in a nutshell.

You'll never control the sickness in people's minds.

A person can kill with a car, truck, bomb,...etc., etc.. Where there is a will, there is a way.

Ban any gun you wnat and criminals and crazies will find a way to get one.

Then why don't they have these kinds of incidents in countries where they tightly control gun ownership?