The Belief That Life Was the Result of an Accident Is Unscientific

[Fort Fun Indiana]

In the end, doesn't it really come down to faith? Faith in a creator or faith that, somehow, the universe came into existence and so did life. Right? There is no PROOF of either, is that correct?

"n the end, doesn't it really come down to faith? Faith in a creator or faith that, somehow, the universe came into existence and so did life. Right? "

No. Wrong. It is reasonable to believe it likely that the universe itself came into existence from purely physical processes, and the same goes for life. Adding a magical layer of a magic spirit requires faith, and is just a substitute for things we do not yet know. Not accepting magic without evidence, while accepting the likelihood purely physical, deterministic processes (as seems to be the case with everything else, as supported by literally all the evidence) would be more of a "default" position, requiring no faith.

Also, one way you can tell is that even if you believe God, both of the above statements about the beginning of our universe and the beginning of life may still be true. We can still point at them both and say, "God did it that way!". When we figured out the Earth revolved around the Sun, did you tell yourself that "God didn't do the sunset, then. ". I doubt it.

 

[K9Buck]

No. Wrong. It is reasonable to believe it likely that the universe itself came into existence from purely physical processes, and the same goes for life. Adding a magical layer of a magic spirit requires faith...

Well, unless you can PROVE how the universe and life came into existence, then your BELIEF in those things coming about via a "purely physical processes" is based on FAITH.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

No. Wrong. It is reasonable to believe it likely that the universe itself came into existence from purely physical processes, and the same goes for life. Adding a magical layer of a magic spirit requires faith...

Well, unless you can PROVE how the universe and life came into existence, then your BELIEF in those things coming about via a "purely physical processes" is based on FAITH.

100% Wrong. It's an evidence-based determination on "best odds", like believing your car will start tomorrow morning. That requires no "faith", it is just what you think is most likely to occur.

Believing these things occured through purely physical process (whether or not it was god's design...notice how your layer of magic has literally zero effect on these determinations?) is merely a default view.

And no, one doesnt need "absolute proof" to deem this "not faith", anymore than you require time travel to adopt the belief that your car will start, the next time you get in it.

 

[bripat9643]

This is who we are. Just a pile of elements from the Periodic Table.
View attachment 152348

Same elements you will find all around you. When you die, those elements will continue to exist with no effect upon them. Carbon atoms will still be carbon atoms after you die.
View attachment 152347

No matter how accurate you are in combing all of the ratios of atoms in a living being, it is not going to become animated.

View attachment 152349

Atoms are not going to write Beethoven, they does not want to listen to Beethoven, nor does the pile of atoms care if it a living being lives or dies, because the elements have nothing to gain or lose either way. Atoms have no interest in talking to each other, laughing at funny cat videos, or even reading and responding on USMB. Atoms just do not care.

How anyone can delude themselves to believe atoms do have sentient life is beyond me.

Who created the creator? What hard evidence ya got?

That's called the "first cause" argument. No believer has ever managed to refute it.

It seems to me that something outside of this universe got it all started.

Something outside the universe started the universe?

You realize that's a contradiction, don't you?

Additionally, something or someone had to come first that did NOT need a cause to come into existence. In other words; he or it has always existed. I suppose the alternative is to believe that there is no creator and that the universe, which had a beginning and which WILL have an end created itself. I'd like to believe that the universe created itself, but I just don't have the faith.

If you claim that God exists because the universes exists and everything has to have a cause, and then you claim God doesn't need a cause, then you've shot down your own argument.

 

[bripat9643]

No. Wrong. It is reasonable to believe it likely that the universe itself came into existence from purely physical processes, and the same goes for life. Adding a magical layer of a magic spirit requires faith...

Well, unless you can PROVE how the universe and life came into existence, then your BELIEF in those things coming about via a "purely physical processes" is based on FAITH.

The fact that we don't know how something occured doesn't mean you get to wave the magic wand and claim God did it. "Magic" is not an argument unless you're a 5-year-old.

 

[sealybobo]

This is who we are. Just a pile of elements from the Periodic Table.
View attachment 152348

Same elements you will find all around you. When you die, those elements will continue to exist with no effect upon them. Carbon atoms will still be carbon atoms after you die.
View attachment 152347

No matter how accurate you are in combing all of the ratios of atoms in a living being, it is not going to become animated.

View attachment 152349

Atoms are not going to write Beethoven, they does not want to listen to Beethoven, nor does the pile of atoms care if it a living being lives or dies, because the elements have nothing to gain or lose either way. Atoms have no interest in talking to each other, laughing at funny cat videos, or even reading and responding on USMB. Atoms just do not care.

How anyone can delude themselves to believe atoms do have sentient life is beyond me.

Who created the creator? What hard evidence ya got?

That's called the "first cause" argument. No believer has ever managed to refute it.

It seems to me that something outside of this universe got it all started. Additionally, something or someone had to come first that did NOT need a cause to come into existence. In other words; he or it has always existed. I suppose the alternative is to believe that there is no creator and that the universe, which had a beginning and which WILL have an end created itself. I'd like to believe that the universe created itself, but I just don't have the faith.

My hypothesis is that our universe is but one universe. Universes are separated by the dark matter that's at the edge of our expanding universe. Think lava lamp.

 

[sealybobo]

This is who we are. Just a pile of elements from the Periodic Table.
View attachment 152348

Same elements you will find all around you. When you die, those elements will continue to exist with no effect upon them. Carbon atoms will still be carbon atoms after you die.
View attachment 152347

No matter how accurate you are in combing all of the ratios of atoms in a living being, it is not going to become animated.

View attachment 152349

Atoms are not going to write Beethoven, they does not want to listen to Beethoven, nor does the pile of atoms care if it a living being lives or dies, because the elements have nothing to gain or lose either way. Atoms have no interest in talking to each other, laughing at funny cat videos, or even reading and responding on USMB. Atoms just do not care.

How anyone can delude themselves to believe atoms do have sentient life is beyond me.

Who created the creator? What hard evidence ya got?

That's called the "first cause" argument. No believer has ever managed to refute it.

It seems to me that something outside of this universe got it all started.

Something outside the universe started the universe?

You realize that's a contradiction, don't you?

Additionally, something or someone had to come first that did NOT need a cause to come into existence. In other words; he or it has always existed. I suppose the alternative is to believe that there is no creator and that the universe, which had a beginning and which WILL have an end created itself. I'd like to believe that the universe created itself, but I just don't have the faith.

If you claim that God exists because the universes exists and everything has to have a cause, and then you claim God doesn't need a cause, then you've shot down your own argument.

So he admits there might be something beyond our universe. That's a start. And why wouldn't this creator have trillions of universes?

Religion was offended when cappernicus suggested the earth wasn't the center of the universe. They've been fighting science ever sense

 

[MarkDuffy]

No. Wrong. It is reasonable to believe it likely that the universe itself came into existence from purely physical processes, and the same goes for life. Adding a magical layer of a magic spirit requires faith...

Well, unless you can PROVE how the universe and life came into existence, then your BELIEF in those things coming about via a "purely physical processes" is based on FAITH.

Correct

I have faith in my religion of science. As a matter of fact, my faith is not only better than yours it is larger. You all have no faith in your God at all. You have to deny reality to keep your God. I do not!

How about them apples?

Repent and save your eternal soul!

 

[K9Buck]

No. Wrong. It is reasonable to believe it likely that the universe itself came into existence from purely physical processes, and the same goes for life. Adding a magical layer of a magic spirit requires faith...

Well, unless you can PROVE how the universe and life came into existence, then your BELIEF in those things coming about via a "purely physical processes" is based on FAITH.

Correct

I have faith in my religion of science.

How about them apples?

It's ok with me.

 

[K9Buck]

The fact that we don't know how something occured doesn't mean you get to wave the magic wand and claim God did it.

Who said otherwise?

 

[K9Buck]

If you claim that God exists because the universes exists and everything has to have a cause, and then you claim God doesn't need a cause, then you've shot down your own argument.

I'm saying that something or someone had to come first that did NOT require something or someone else to cause it or him to come into existence. In other words, it or him has always existed, a concept that does not exist in our realm and which is probably beyond our human understanding. Do you dispute these beliefs?

 

[bripat9643]

The fact that we don't know how something occured doesn't mean you get to wave the magic wand and claim God did it.

Who said otherwise?

You did. You implied that since we don't know how the universe came into being that it's reasonable to assume god waved his magic wand and created it.

 

[K9Buck]

You did. You implied that since we don't know how the universe came into being that it's reasonable to assume god waved his magic wand and created it.

No, I did not.

 

[bripat9643]

If you claim that God exists because the universes exists and everything has to have a cause, and then you claim God doesn't need a cause, then you've shot down your own argument.

I'm saying that something or someone had to come first that did NOT require something or someone else to cause it or him to come into existence. In other words, it or him has always existed, a concept that does not exist in our realm and which is probably beyond our human understanding. Do you dispute these beliefs?

If there was something that came first and didn't need a cause, then why does the universe need a cause? You're right about one thing: logical contradictions are beyond human understanding.

 

[K9Buck]

If there was something that came first and didn't need a cause, then why does the universe need a cause? You're right about one thing: logical contradictions are beyond human understanding.

It appears that the universe had a beginning, right or not? If so, who or what gave the universe its initial push? Who or what caused the universe to come into existence?

 

[MarkDuffy]

If you claim that God exists because the universes exists and everything has to have a cause, and then you claim God doesn't need a cause, then you've shot down your own argument.

I'm saying that something or someone had to come first that did NOT require something or someone else to cause it or him to come into existence. In other words, it or him has always existed, a concept that does not exist in our realm and which is probably beyond our human understanding. Do you dispute these beliefs?

Sorry, but when talking about origin, you do not get to use an eternal creator.

Dem's da rules

Until you can answer the Who Begat God question, you got nuthin

 

[K9Buck]

Until you can answer the Who begat God question, you got nuthin

So you know for a fact that there cannot be a higher power that has existed for eternity? Can you prove it?

 

[sealybobo]

No. Wrong. It is reasonable to believe it likely that the universe itself came into existence from purely physical processes, and the same goes for life. Adding a magical layer of a magic spirit requires faith...

Well, unless you can PROVE how the universe and life came into existence, then your BELIEF in those things coming about via a "purely physical processes" is based on FAITH.

Correct

I have faith in my religion of science. As a matter of fact, my faith is not only better than yours it is larger. You all have no faith in your God at all. You have to deny reality to keep your God. I do not!

How about them apples?

Repent and save your eternal soul!

I will admit it is rather amazing that the sun is in the right place and the moon is where we need it to be and how the plants give out oxygen and we breathe out carbon monoxide for the plants and the ozone and its all to perfect for it to have just happened by chance.

But then consider life once lived on other planets in our solar system billions of years before life started on earth. Was that life like here on earth? No. The conditions were probably different. Maybe hotter or no moons.

And consider in 10 billion years from no there will be no more life on this planet. If a god made our planet wouldn't our sun burn for us forever? Can't god just change a fuse

 

[bripat9643]

If there was something that came first and didn't need a cause, then why does the universe need a cause? You're right about one thing: logical contradictions are beyond human understanding.

It appears that the universe had a beginning, right or not? If so, who or what gave the universe its initial push? Who or what caused the universe to come into existence?

If it was God, then who created God? The first cause argument is a logical contradiction. If everything needs a cause, then so does God. If God doesn't need a cause, then neither does the universe.

 

[bripat9643]

Until you can answer the Who begat God question, you got nuthin

So you know for a fact that there cannot be a higher power that has existed for eternity? Can you prove it?

You didn't answer his question. What he believes is beside the point.

Who or what created God?