The Bible vs. The Book of Mormon

[Truthspeaker]

There were NO maps of Arabia available to Joseph Smith. The arabian peninsula had not been mapped either at the time which is why the uneducated Smith seems even more remarkable that he accurately described the path to the paradise in Oman that was unknown to everyone for a long long time.

What a bogus statement!!

Joseph Smith (lived 1805 to 1844) had many maps available to him of Arabia or most places in the world; as did any citizen of his time period.

Here is a very detailed map of the Arabian Peninsula published in 1720 (almost one hundered years before Smith was born.

Map of Ancient Arabia - World Digital Library

In fact, just google ancient maps of Arabia and there is dozens of examples of maps of Arabia going back to the Roman times.

Smith doesnt seem so remarkable now.

Just because maps may have been available to Arabians doesn't mean anyone in the entire state of New York had one. And what I'm talking about are facts that even the Arabians didn't even know about. Even Sunnis like you.

All of what westerners have learned about the ancient middle east has been learned in the last 100 years. Smith did not live in that time period because he was much older.

Westerners had no clue as to the customs of Bedouin Arabs in 1830, yet Smith hits almost all of their speeches and customs right on the head. That's a pretty amazing fabrication if I may say so myself. But wait....
Having no knowledge of the Arabian desert, it's terrain, it's paths, it's dangers, animals, or topography, how did he 100 percent describe the path Lehi's company would take to a paradise unknown even to the arabians at the time. Everyone thought that the penninsula was entirely desert. But the more we learn the more we learn we shouldn't jump to conclusions. The modern Khor Karfot paradise in Oman is virtually unchanged from it's original state. How did Joseph know there was a lonely mountain, with wild, goats for game, materials for making a bow(roots at the top of the mountain, a very exclusive material like yew wood), timber for building a ship and ore for smelting? No one even in the old world new of this place because in 600 BC, it was undiscovered since it was surrounded by vast desert towards land and vast ocean otherwise. How did he know this was the only tiny spot on the entire arabian penninsula that this combination of items?

Why are there ancient paintings on the rocks in the site which display the building of a ship? Why are there ruins of an ancient dock? What happened to the people who originally left these paintings and ruins dated to around 600BC?

No evidence?

I'm sick of you people who babble about no evidence? If that's not evidence then I don't know what is.

 

[BigBarry]

If you claim that because the gold plates haven't been shown to the world, the book of mormon is false; then you have to say the same thing about the Bible. Show me the original jawbone that Samson used or I can't believe in that story. You see how ridiculous the arguments are.

You're right Mr T, both books are bullshit.

Actually both are pretty remarkable. You can't disprove either.

Both can be easily disproved by their lack of evidence for the things mentioned. Like, as just one example, if you have no plates, then it's just a myth that they existed. Nothing can change that.

 

[Truthspeaker]

You're right Mr T, both books are bullshit.

Actually both are pretty remarkable. You can't disprove either.

Both can be easily disproved by their lack of evidence for the things mentioned. Like, as just one example, if you have no plates, then it's just a myth that they existed. Nothing can change that.

The plates are purposefully being withheld as a trial of faith. But evidence for the events described in the Book of Mormon is mountainous. Please ask me for more!

 

[BigBarry]

Ok, you have no proof of plates, how about some proof that Joseph didn't use books to make up his story? Ok, you have none, so... What can you prove?

 

[Sunni Man]

This book, "Travels in Arabia" by John Lewis Burckhardt, 1829

Was a popular travel guide published during Joseph Smith's life time.

It was complete with maps of Arabia, and could be found in libraries, even in the state of New York.

 

[Truthspeaker]

Ok, you have no proof of plates, how about some proof that Joseph didn't use books to make up his story?

There is plenty of proof that he didn't make his story up from other books. First the only book in his entire house was the Bible. He was a farmer and didn't have access to more than a 4th grade education. Yet he wrote in authentic Hebrew poetic style, as well as 22 different writing styles indicating as many different writers. He described events that no one would find out about until centuries later in the Book of Mormon, as well as timelines which match up to ancient Olmec and Mayan timelines. Such information was not available to the highest scholars in the United States in 1830.

Ok, you have none, so... What can you prove?

NOT....so I have some, but proof is in the puddin. I can't prove to you that it tastes good until you try it. Therefore you are the only one that can prove anything to yourself.

 

[Truthspeaker]

This book, "Travels in Arabia" by John Lewis Burckhardt, 1829

Was a popular travel guide published during Joseph Smith's life time.

It was complete with maps of Arabia, and could be found in libraries, even in the state of New York.

But you see, you won't find the paradise in the map will you? it depicts the entire peninsula as a desert. There were no travels to that hidden nook of Khor Karfot.

Certainly a generic map that shows the shape of the country was available to a few in the country, but details were the missing link.
It certainly wasn't available to Joseph because he never made the trip to New York City until after the Book of Mormon was published....Oh wait, he must have gotten it rented by netflix. Oh wait, I guess not.

 

[Sunni Man]

This book, "Travels in Arabia" by John Lewis Burckhardt, 1829

Was a popular travel guide published during Joseph Smith's life time.

It was complete with maps of Arabia, and could be found in libraries, even in the state of New York.

But you see, you won't find the paradise in the map will you? it depicts the entire peninsula as a desert. There were no travels to that hidden nook of Khor Karfot.

Certainly a generic map that shows the shape of the country was available to a few in the country, but details were the missing link.
It certainly wasn't available to Joseph because he never made the trip to New York City until after the Book of Mormon was published....Oh wait, he must have gotten it rented by netflix. Oh wait, I guess not.

Don't act so idiotic.

You were the one who originally mentioned New York.

Other states also had libraries.

This book was a detailed travel guide of the arabian peninsula.

People wouldn't by a travel book about a feature less desert

 

[Truthspeaker]

Here is the oldest known western map of Arabia in 1804. None of the locations had found Khor Kharfot or any of the remote parts close to it. You will not find it on the map. But it is there today. It is very small and was undiscovered by any of the Arabian ventures.



http://images.google.com/imgres?img...abia+1804&hl=en&rlz=1G1GGLQ_ENUS345&sa=G&um=1

 

[Truthspeaker]

This book, "Travels in Arabia" by John Lewis Burckhardt, 1829

Was a popular travel guide published during Joseph Smith's life time.

It was complete with maps of Arabia, and could be found in libraries, even in the state of New York.

But you see, you won't find the paradise in the map will you? it depicts the entire peninsula as a desert. There were no travels to that hidden nook of Khor Karfot.

Certainly a generic map that shows the shape of the country was available to a few in the country, but details were the missing link.
It certainly wasn't available to Joseph because he never made the trip to New York City until after the Book of Mormon was published....Oh wait, he must have gotten it rented by netflix. Oh wait, I guess not.

Don't act so idiotic.

You were the one who originally mentioned New York.

Other states also had libraries.

This book was a detailed travel guide of the arabian peninsula.

People wouldn't by a travel book about a feature less desert

Do you really claim to be an arab and know less about Arabia than I do? You should be ashamed of yourself. It largely is a featureless desert. But the paradise I mentioned and proved, was undiscovered in Joseph Smith's time, even by Arabs.

You act like these maps were candy, just available to everyone. Do you have any conception of what life was like in 1830. Only the rich city folk went to the libraries. Joseph didn't have a car and was a nobody in the back woods of UPSTATE New York. A 5 hour modern car drive on modern roads away from the nearest library with such a map. That would equate to a pretty pointless and resource wasting journey for a horse and buggy.

Other states? How smart are you? He never left New York until the Book of Mormon was printed. He didn't have time to go from state to state. He had lots of manual labor to take care of. By the way, he didn't care about maps and libraries.

His state was the closest to him.

 

[Sunni Man]

Here is the oldest known western map of Arabia in 1804. None of the locations had found Khor Kharfot or any of the remote parts close to it. You will not find it on the map. But it is there today. It is very small and was undiscovered by any of the Arabian ventures.

: A new map of Arabia, including Egypt, Abyssinia, the Red Sea &c. &c., from the latest authorities. By John Cary, engraver. 1804. London: Published by J. Cary, Engraver & Map-seller, No. 181, Strand, Novr. 28, 1804.

And that proves what?

There were many maps and travel guides published during Smith's life that are far more detailed than the example you provided.

 

[Truthspeaker]

Here is the oldest known western map of Arabia in 1804. None of the locations had found Khor Kharfot or any of the remote parts close to it. You will not find it on the map. But it is there today. It is very small and was undiscovered by any of the Arabian ventures.

: A new map of Arabia, including Egypt, Abyssinia, the Red Sea &c. &c., from the latest authorities. By John Cary, engraver. 1804. London: Published by J. Cary, Engraver & Map-seller, No. 181, Strand, Novr. 28, 1804.

And that proves what?

There were many maps and travel guides published during Smith's life that are far more detailed than the example you provided.

But none showing Khor Karfot in Joseph's time.

ruminate on this link for a while
Book of Mormon Authorship Revisited: The Evidence for Ancient Origins - Lehi's Arabian Journey Updated

 

[Sunni Man]

Here is the oldest known western map of Arabia in 1804. None of the locations had found Khor Kharfot or any of the remote parts close to it. You will not find it on the map. But it is there today. It is very small and was undiscovered by any of the Arabian ventures.

: A new map of Arabia, including Egypt, Abyssinia, the Red Sea &c. &c., from the latest authorities. By John Cary, engraver. 1804. London: Published by J. Cary, Engraver & Map-seller, No. 181, Strand, Novr. 28, 1804.

And that proves what?

There were many maps and travel guides published during Smith's life that are far more detailed than the example you provided.

But none showing Khor Karfot in Joseph's time.

ruminate on this link for a while
Book of Mormon Authorship Revisited: The Evidence for Ancient Origins - Lehi's Arabian Journey Updated

Sorry, but I don't have time to read a bunch of nonsense.

 

[Truthspeaker]

And that proves what?

There were many maps and travel guides published during Smith's life that are far more detailed than the example you provided.

But none showing Khor Karfot in Joseph's time.

ruminate on this link for a while
Book of Mormon Authorship Revisited: The Evidence for Ancient Origins - Lehi's Arabian Journey Updated

Sorry, but I don't have time to read a bunch of nonsense.

You, I and every other usmb poster has the time! If you're so busy, you wouldn't even be on these boards in the first place.

I took the freakin time to watch the ridiculous video so that I could ransack it when I was done with it.
You just aren't ready to handle the truth sunni boy.

 

[BigBarry]

Ok, you have no proof of plates, how about some proof that Joseph didn't use books to make up his story?

There is plenty of proof that he didn't make his story up from other books. First the only book in his entire house was the Bible. He was a farmer and didn't have access to more than a 4th grade education. Yet he wrote in authentic Hebrew poetic style, as well as 22 different writing styles indicating as many different writers. He described events that no one would find out about until centuries later in the Book of Mormon, as well as timelines which match up to ancient Olmec and Mayan timelines. Such information was not available to the highest scholars in the United States in 1830.

Ok, you have none, so... What can you prove?

NOT....so I have some, but proof is in the puddin. I can't prove to you that it tastes good until you try it. Therefore you are the only one that can prove anything to yourself.

OK, you're a n00b. You have no proof that Joseph alone wrote all that crap. Having a 4th grade education doesn't mean much, they don't even teach charlatanism in school anyways now do they?
Btw, where can I view all these hebrew... texts. Got a link?

 

[Truthspeaker]

Ok, you have no proof of plates, how about some proof that Joseph didn't use books to make up his story?

There is plenty of proof that he didn't make his story up from other books. First the only book in his entire house was the Bible. He was a farmer and didn't have access to more than a 4th grade education. Yet he wrote in authentic Hebrew poetic style, as well as 22 different writing styles indicating as many different writers. He described events that no one would find out about until centuries later in the Book of Mormon, as well as timelines which match up to ancient Olmec and Mayan timelines. Such information was not available to the highest scholars in the United States in 1830.

Ok, you have none, so... What can you prove?

NOT....so I have some, but proof is in the puddin. I can't prove to you that it tastes good until you try it. Therefore you are the only one that can prove anything to yourself.

OK, you're a n00b. You have no proof that Joseph alone wrote all that crap. Having a 4th grade education doesn't mean much, they don't even teach charlatanism in school anyways now do they?
Btw, where can I view all these hebrew... texts. Got a link?

sure. Here's the link. By the way, Joseph had 3 different scribes who wrote what was dictated from his lips. Emma Smith, Martin Harris and Oliver Cowdery. It's proof that he did it all himself because there are at least 3 witnesses to the publication of the book.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints

click the scriptures tab and click on the book of mormon. You'll see the writing styles in plain english.

 

[BigBarry]

I didn't find any hebrew, but man, that Joseph guy is really whacked. That anyone would believe what he saw and wrote down with his 3 henchmen is just way too dumb to believe that someone could pull off a con job like that:

"“He had on a loose robe of most exquisite whiteness. It was a whiteness beyond anything earthly I had ever seen; nor do I believe that any earthly thing could be made to appear so exceedingly white and brilliant. His hands were naked, and his arms also, a little above the wrists; so, also, were his feet naked, as were his legs, a little above the ankles. His head and neck were also bare. I could discover that he had no other clothing on but this robe, as it was open, so that I could see into his bosom.
" Like dude, anyone could make all that stuff up.

Sounds more like something Steve Martin would say in a movie.

 

[froggy]

don't say bible and mormons in same sentence.

 

[Intense]

It's been 20 years since I've seen The Book of Mormon. I went cover to cover to compare. It did not satisfy me then. It did Not Reach Me like The Bible does. That Said, God is More than The Bible or The Book Of Mormon, and is not limited like Us. God is not for Us to Package and Peddle, but to Adhere to Above All Else. What Ever Your Path, keep Conscience close. That is the Important thing, in the relationship with God, in the here and now. Rather than buying and selling philosophies and dogma, be the example of what You Know. We all Fuck that up, being what and who We are, that is all the more reason to strive, the reminder that We are not there Yet, where We need to get. There is supposed to be a Time where Each knows His or Her Way, in matters of Spiritual Direction. Pray for that Time.

 

[Truthspeaker]

I didn't find any hebrew, but man, that Joseph guy is really whacked. That anyone would believe what he saw and wrote down with his 3 henchmen is just way too dumb to believe that someone could pull off a con job like that:

"“He had on a loose robe of most exquisite whiteness. It was a whiteness beyond anything earthly I had ever seen; nor do I believe that any earthly thing could be made to appear so exceedingly white and brilliant. His hands were naked, and his arms also, a little above the wrists; so, also, were his feet naked, as were his legs, a little above the ankles. His head and neck were also bare. I could discover that he had no other clothing on but this robe, as it was open, so that I could see into his bosom.
" Like dude, anyone could make all that stuff up.

Sounds more like something Steve Martin would say in a movie.

whatever