The Bush Administration Was "ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN" That Saddam Hussein Had WMDs

[P@triot]

OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH SHIT!!!! The fucking truth... Oh noes....

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB39/document15.pdf

Great info there (as always LGS).....

The evidence is both overwhelming and indisputable.... Why the wing-nut liberals continue to either deny it or attempt to move the goalposts by claiming it was only about nuclear weapons is absurd.

 

[P@triot]

Here is the bottom line on this issue - the Bush Administration made it very clear from the beginning that the concern was about WMD's - chemical, biological, and nuclear (all of them - not just any one). And, in fact, WMD's were located in Iraq.

There was never a doubt considering Saddam unleashed chemical weapons on the Kurds in the North (hence the reason "Chemical Ali" got his nickname).

The left believe the communist adage "a lie told often enough will eventually become truth". Unfortunately for them, that adage ceased to be true with the introduction of the internet to your average citizen. There simply too much documented fact that is so easy to obtain and share, that liberals will never be able to rewrite history and claim that the Bush Administration "lied to invade Iraq". And damn does that piss them off that they can't rewrite history anymore (after all, it was the cornerstone of their very existence for nearly 100 years).

The WMD's were there, they were found, Bush was justified. Nothing more to say on this issue. Period.

 

[DigitalDrifter]

This is still being argued ?

 

[P@triot]

This is still being argued ?

Well of course! Are you really surprised? Since the left is completely and totally adverse to facts and reality - we will always have to argue the truth to their propaganda.

 

[Billo_Really]

So now it's your contention that the people discussing how to proceed with the invasion of Iraq were "acting" as they did so? The minutes of those meetings were classified. What you hear is an unfiltered discussion of the different concerns that the British and the Americans had at that time. Why would they include the part about "fixing the intel" if this really was some elaborate plot to deceive the public? Sorry, Loinboy but you're grasping at straws if that's your best explanation of the worry being expressed about Saddam using his WMD's!

They "acted" like they "knew" he had them, when they really didn't.

 

[Billo_Really]

Saddam was absolutely certain he had WMDS too.

Even if for the sake of argument, he did have them, it is still illegal to attack him over a stockpile of weapons.

There is only 2 legal ways to attack another country with military force.

if you, yourself, are attacked
you receive UNSC authorization to do so​

And that's it! Anything else, is no different than the nazis going into Poland.

 

[Billo_Really]

Hussein's continued violation of UN resolutions.

State: Fact sheet on Saddam's defiance of UN resolutions - 3-20-03

FACT SHEET ON SADDAM'S DEFIANCE
OF UN RESOLUTIONS

U.S. DEPARTMENT OF STATE

March 20, 2003



Saddam Hussein's Defiance of UNSCRs

Over the past 12 years, Iraq has violated more than seventeen United Nations Security Council Resolutions (UNSCRs) and remains in material breach of disarmament obligations. The Iraqi regime has also sought to circumvent economic sanctions. The UNSCRs required that Iraq declare and divest itself, under international supervision, of weapons of mass destruction and related programs, delivery systems and ballistic missiles with a range greater than 150 kilometers; not commit acts of international terrorism, or allow others who commit such acts to operate in Iraqi territory; account for missing Kuwaitis and other individuals; return stolen Kuwaiti property and bear financial liability for damage from the Gulf War; and end repression of the Iraqi people.

Saddam Hussein is in violation of the following United Nations Security Council Resolutions:

UNSCR 1441 - November 8, 2002

-- Found that Iraq has been and remains in material breach of its disarmament obligations.

-- Gave Iraq a final opportunity to comply.

-- Demanded that Iraq submit a currently accurate, full and complete declaration of its weapons of mass destruction and related programs within 30 days.

-- Demanded that Iraq cooperate immediately, unconditionally and actively with the UN inspections.

-- Decided that false statements or omissions in Iraq's declarations and failure by Iraq at any time to comply with and cooperate fully in the implementation of this resolution would constitute further material breach.

-- Recalls that the Security Council has repeatedly warned Iraq that it will face serious consequences as a result of its continued violations.

UNSCR 1284 - December 17, 1999

-- Created the United Nations Monitoring, Verification and Inspections Commission (UNMOVIC) to replace previous weapon inspection team (UNSCOM).

-- Iraq must allow UNMOVIC "immediate, unconditional and unrestricted access" to Iraqi officials and facilities. Iraq must fulfill its commitment to return Gulf War prisoners.

-- Calls on Iraq to distribute humanitarian goods and medical supplies to its people and address the needs of vulnerable Iraqis without discrimination.

UNSCR 1205 - November 5, 1998

-- "Condemns the decision by Iraq of 31 October 1998 to cease cooperation" with UN inspectors as "a flagrant violation" of UNSCR 687 and other resolutions.

-- Iraq must provide "immediate, complete and unconditional cooperation" with UN and IAEA inspectors.

UNSCR 1194 - September 9, 1998

-- "Condemns the decision by Iraq of 5 August 1998 to suspend cooperation with" UN and IAEA inspectors, which constitutes "a totally unacceptable contravention" of its obligations under UNSCR 687, 707, 715, 1060, 1115, and 1154.

-- Iraq must cooperate fully with UN and IAEA weapons inspectors, and allow immediate, unconditional and unrestricted access.

UNSCR 1154 - March 2, 1998

-- Iraq must cooperate fully with UN and IAEA weapons inspectors and allow immediate, unconditional and unrestricted access, and notes that any violation would have the "severest consequences for Iraq."

UNSCR 1137 - November 12, 1997

-- "Condemns the continued violations by Iraq" of previous UN resolutions, including its "implicit threat to the safety of" aircraft operated by UN inspectors and its tampering with UN inspector monitoring equipment.

-- Reaffirms Iraq's responsibility to ensure the safety of UN inspectors.

-- Iraq must cooperate fully with UN weapons inspectors and allow immediate, unconditional and unrestricted access.

UNSCR 1134 - October 23, 1997

-- "Condemns repeated refusal of Iraqi authorities to allow access" to UN inspectors, which constitutes a "flagrant violation" of UNSCR 687, 707, 715, and 1060.

-- Iraq must cooperate fully with UN weapons inspectors and allow immediate, unconditional and unrestricted access.

-- Iraq must give immediate, unconditional and unrestricted access to Iraqi officials whom UN inspectors want to interview.

UNSCR 1115 - June 21, 1997

-- "Condemns repeated refusal of Iraqi authorities to allow access" to UN inspectors, which constitutes a "clear and flagrant violation" of UNSCR 687, 707, 715, and 1060.

-- Iraq must cooperate fully with UN weapons inspectors and allow immediate, unconditional and unrestricted access.

-- Iraq must give immediate, unconditional and unrestricted access to Iraqi officials whom UN inspectors want to interview.

UNSCR 1060 - June 12, 1996

-- "Deplores" Iraq's refusal to allow access to UN inspectors and Iraq's "clear violations" of previous UN resolutions.

-- Iraq must cooperate fully with UN weapons inspectors and allow immediate, unconditional and unrestricted access.

UNSCR 1051 - March 27, 1996

-- Iraq must report shipments of dual-use items related to weapons of mass destruction to the UN and IAEA.

-- Iraq must cooperate fully with UN and IAEA inspectors and allow immediate, unconditional and unrestricted access.

UNSCR 949 - October 15, 1994

-- "Condemns" Iraq's recent military deployments toward Kuwait.

-- Iraq must not utilize its military or other forces in a hostile manner to threaten its neighbors or UN operations in Iraq.

-- Iraq must cooperate fully with UN weapons inspectors.

-- Iraq must not enhance its military capability in southern Iraq. UNSCR 715 - October 11, 1991

-- Iraq must cooperate fully with UN and IAEA inspectors

UNSCR 707 - August 15, 1991

-- "Condemns" Iraq's "serious violation" of UNSCR 687.

-- "Further condemns" Iraq's noncompliance with IAEA and its obligations under the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty.

-- Iraq must halt nuclear activities of all kinds until the Security Council deems Iraq in full compliance.

-- Iraq must make a full, final and complete disclosure of all aspects of its weapons of mass destruction and missile programs.

-- Iraq must allow UN and IAEA inspectors immediate, unconditional and unrestricted access.

-- Iraq must cease attempts to conceal or move weapons of mass destruction, and related materials and facilities.

-- Iraq must allow UN and IAEA inspectors to conduct inspection flights throughout Iraq.

-- Iraq must provide transportation, medical and logistical support for UN and IAEA inspectors.

UNSCR 688 - April 5, 1991

-- "Condemns" repression of Iraqi civilian population, "the consequences of which threaten international peace and security."

-- Iraq must immediately end repression of its civilian population.

-- Iraq must allow immediate access to international humanitarian organizations to those in need of assistance.

UNSCR 687 - April 3, 1991

-- Iraq must "unconditionally accept" the destruction, removal or rendering harmless "under international supervision" of all "chemical and biological weapons and all stocks of agents and all related subsystems and components and all research, development, support and manufacturing facilities."

-- Iraq must "unconditionally agree not to acquire or develop nuclear weapons or nuclear-weapons-usable material" or any research, development or manufacturing facilities.

-- Iraq must "unconditionally accept" the destruction, removal or rendering harmless "under international supervision" of all "ballistic missiles with a range greater than 150 KM and related major parts and repair and production facilities."

-- Iraq must not "use, develop, construct or acquire" any weapons of mass destruction.

-- Iraq must reaffirm its obligations under the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty.

-- Creates the United Nations Special Commission (UNSCOM) to verify the elimination of Iraq's chemical and biological weapons programs and mandated that the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) verify elimination of Iraq's nuclear weapons program.

-- Iraq must declare fully its weapons of mass destruction programs.

-- Iraq must not commit or support terrorism, or allow terrorist organizations to operate in Iraq.

-- Iraq must cooperate in accounting for the missing and dead Kuwaitis and others.

-- Iraq must return Kuwaiti property seized during the Gulf War.

UNSCR 686 - March 2, 1991

-- Iraq must release prisoners detained during the Gulf War.

-- Iraq must return Kuwaiti property seized during the Gulf War.

-- Iraq must accept liability under international law for damages from its illegal invasion of Kuwait.

UNSCR 678 - November 29, 1990

-- Iraq must comply fully with UNSCR 660 (regarding Iraq's illegal invasion of Kuwait) "and all subsequent relevant resolutions."

-- Authorizes UN Member States "to use all necessary means to uphold and implement resolution 660 and all subsequent relevant resolutions and to restore international peace and security in the area."

It wasn't up to us to decide if he was in violation of UN resolutions.

Any perceived violations by member states was to be referred back to the UNSC for consideration.

 

[Oldstyle]

Would that be the same United Nations whose leader had a son brokering black market deals to sell Iraqi oil in violation of UN sanctions? Saddam Hussein was making a mockery of the UN sanctions...selling billions of dollars worth of oil to countries so that he could start to rebuild his military and start working towards a nuclear capablility.

To be honest with you I don't even know why we bother with the UN anymore. It's become a joke.

 

[Oldstyle]

Saddam was absolutely certain he had WMDS too.

Even if for the sake of argument, he did have them, it is still illegal to attack him over a stockpile of weapons.

There is only 2 legal ways to attack another country with military force.

if you, yourself, are attacked
you receive UNSC authorization to do so​

And that's it! Anything else, is no different than the nazis going into Poland.

And if you knew your history, you'd know that Germany alledged that Poland HAD attacked Germany as the pretense for invading Poland. I believe the operation was called "Canned Meat" because the German's dressed some dead bodies up in Polish uniforms and scattered them around a radio tower that the Poles had supposedly tried to destroy.

 

[Billo_Really]

And if you knew your history, you'd know that Germany alledged that Poland HAD attacked Germany as the pretense for invading Poland. I believe the operation was called "Canned Meat" because the German's dressed some dead bodies up in Polish uniforms and scattered them around a radio tower that the Poles had supposedly tried to destroy.

That's true!

But didn't Bush claim an Iraqi/al Qaeda tie, which is a similar MO?

Hitler used a national tragedy (Rheistag Fire), to blame an entire race of people (jews), to launch an un-provoked war of aggression against a sovereign nation (Poland).

Bush used a national tragedy (9/11), to blame an entire race of people (muslims), to launch an un-provoked war of aggression against a sovereign nation (Iraq).​

Both country's made up bullshit reasons to attack someone that had not attacked them first. Ever since the end of WWII, wars of choice have been codified by international law and the Nuremburg Principles as being a "crime against humanity"

 

[Billo_Really]

Would that be the same United Nations whose leader had a son brokering black market deals to sell Iraqi oil in violation of UN sanctions? Saddam Hussein was making a mockery of the UN sanctions...selling billions of dollars worth of oil to countries so that he could start to rebuild his military and start working towards a nuclear capablility.

To be honest with you I don't even know why we bother with the UN anymore. It's become a joke.

We knew all about OFF for months but said nothing about it. They had to submit monthly reports and we could track the flow of money from those. Over 51% of which, came from a Houston businessman.

 

[Billo_Really]

To be honest with you I don't even know why we bother with the UN anymore. It's become a joke.

We're 1/5th of the UN. They can't do anything without our approval. We're a permanent member of the Security Council, which means we have "kick-ass power".

But it doesn't make us look very good when we violate certain international laws we happened to have "co-written".

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Moreover, that he was determined to use them.

We now know that was a blatant LIE.

Here's some of the gems that brought us to war with the wrong country for the wrong reasons. These are all quotes...

Saddam's removal is necessary to eradicate the threat from his weapons of mass destruction

Simply stated, there is no doubt that Saddam Hussein now has weapons of mass destruction.

They are all on record stating they believed there were WMD's in Iraq. Many more Liberals than Republicans on record actually. So what is your point? - Jeremiah







Why are you singling out George? Looks like you've got an agenda here...

 

[editec]

Chemical weapons that are delivered by shell or rocket are NOT weapons of mass destruction.

They are terrible weapons but do not rise to the level of MASS destruction as their destreuctive capacity is quite limited geographically.

Note that there are STILL plenty of Kurds alive in Iraq?

There's all the evidence honest players need to understand the different between WMDs and tactical weapons.

 

[jtpr312]

Yes he was definately convinced that the Iraqis had WMD's. Guess he shouldn't have listened to all those leftists, liberals and demoncrats in public office huh?

"One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line."
--President Bill Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998

"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program."
--President Bill Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998

"Iraq is a long way from [here], but what happens there matters a great deal here. For the risks that the leaders of a rogue state will use nuclear, chemical or biological weapons against us or our allies is the greatest security threat we face."
--Madeline Albright, Feb 18, 1998

"He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983."
--Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18, 1998

"[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs."
Letter to President Clinton, signed by:
-- Democratic Senators Carl Levin, Tom Daschle, John Kerry, and others, Oct. 9, 1998

"Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process."
-Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998

"Hussein has ... chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction and palaces for his cronies."
-- Madeline Albright, Clinton Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999

"There is no doubt that ... Saddam Hussein has reinvigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam continues to redefine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a licit missile program to develop longer-range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies."
Letter to President Bush, Signed by:
-- Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), and others, Dec 5, 2001

"We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandate of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and th! e means of delivering them."
-- Sen. Carl Levin (D, MI), Sept. 19, 2002

"We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country."
-- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

"Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power."
-- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction."
-- Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002

"The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities. Intelligence reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons..."
-- Sen. Robert Byrd (D, WV), Oct. 3, 2002

"I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force -- if necessary -- to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security."
-- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002

"There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years ... We also should remember we have always underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction."
-- Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D, WV), Oct 10, 2002

"He has systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years, every significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm and destroy his chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear capacity. This he has refused to do"
-- Rep. Henry Waxman (D, CA), Oct. 10, 2002

"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda members ... It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons."
-- Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002

"We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that Saddam Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity for the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction."
-- Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), Dec. 8, 2002

"Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime ... He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation ... And now he is miscalculating America's response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction ... So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real..."
-- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan. 23. 2003

http://http://www.snopes.com/politics/war/wmdquotes.asp

 

[Intense]

Chemical weapons that are delivered by shell or rocket are NOT weapons of mass destruction.

They are terrible weapons but do not rise to the level of MASS destruction as their destreuctive capacity is quite limited geographically.

Note that there are STILL plenty of Kurds alive in Iraq?

There's all the evidence honest players need to understand the different between WMDs and tactical weapons.

You are kidding. Right? Good one. Had me fooled. No One is that stupid, right?

We know Saddam thought he had them. His Scientists did lie to him about specifics. We know he was waiting for the inspections to stop, so he could assemble. We know that he assumed France and those benefiting from his illegal pipeline to Syria, had his back. He probably believed until the end, that he could avoid the invasion. WMD's V.S. Tactical? Would Not have made the slightest difference. When used on a Civilian Population, it is mass destruction. It is a War Crime.

 

[editec]

Intense,

I do not despute that Saddam had chemical weapons.

I despute your (and Bush II's) definition of the term WEAPON OF MASS DESTRUCTION.

We could go on and on debating what that term actually means.

But why bother?

We both agree that Saddam had and used chemical weapons.

 

[zeke]

There is one thing that so called republicans do that drive people like me crazy.

When anyone mentions that Obama was left to deal with the decisions and actions of Bush, rethugs go crazy saying how all the deficit spending is on Obama. Bush had nothing to do with it, almost.

But when it comes to the war of choice that Bush led us into, it suddenly becomes Bill Clintons' fault that we went to war with Iraq.

Hypocrites each and every rethug I know. You don't get to have it both ways.
Just because you put a big R next to your name, does not make you blameless for your decisions.

 

[Freewill]

Moreover, that he was determined to use them.

We now know that was a blatant LIE.

.

There is something fundamentally wrong with the left wing mindset. First of all, if we are to believe your subject line, then Bush was CERTAIN they had WMD. So was both Clintons and a whole lot of other folks. So it was found out that there were not found in quantities in the amount for you to ever admit he had ANY. Yet he used them on his own people. So in any one's world when you are CERTAIN of something and say it that is not lying. It maybe in bizarro victim world of the Left Wing liberals but in the sane everyday life it is not lying. What you are certain of may proved to be incorrect but by any educated defintion that is not lying.

How else do you explain the many things Obama says that certainly appears to be lying? Like when he said his campaign is funded by mostly small donations? Which indicates two things to me. They are small because they are laundered money and he has a detachment with reality. Not lying, cause I think he believes it, but just like those who support him, low information voter.

PolitiFact | Obama campaign financed by large donors, too

BTW, Bush left 4 years ago, it is start time you looked at the fail in the WH. Start by looking at how many MORE he got killed in the "good" war in Afghanistan. Talk about bungling, got them men killed then admits he is a failure.

 

[Mac1958]

Intense,

I do not despute that Saddam had chemical weapons.

I despute your (and Bush II's) definition of the term WEAPON OF MASS DESTRUCTION.

We could go on and on debating what that term actually means.

But why bother?

We both agree that Saddam had and used chemical weapons.

It's the only way Bush and that war can be defended. The apologists have to pretend that the Bush administration did not do everything it could to scare Americans with the threat of Saddam making nuclear weapons and using them on us. They have to pretend that whole circus did not exist, that Americans wanted us to go in after chemical weapons. Holy crap, they even have to pretend that the administration itself admitted that they didn't find WMD.

Madness.

Why they feel a need to do this is a mystery to me. It happened. There's nothing we can do now. You'd think a Republican would want to hide this whole hideous disaster under one big fucking carpet.

.