The Christian and Old Testament Law

[Chuckt]

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[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_QACgqKtT8]The Christian and the Old Testament Law, Part 1 - YouTube[/ame]


The Christian and the Old Testament law

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpPYWUvez9c&src_vid=M_QACgqKtT8&feature=iv&annotation_id=annotation_737746]The Christian and the Old Testament Law, Part 2 - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Chuckt]

 

[Chuckt]

Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Romans 3 (Blue Letter Bible: KJV - King James Version)

1. to cause or make to stand, to place, put, set

AV — stand 116, set 11, establish 5, stand still 4, stand by 3, misc 17, vr stand 2
to make firm, fix establish

The word "yea" is actually an objection.

Blue Letter Bible - Lexicon

 

[Chuckt]

Reformed articles on Law and Gospel (I am not a Reformed Theological Christian) but I think they have some merit here:

Reformed Articles about Law and Gospel | Learn Reformed Theology at Ligonier.org

The Law & the Gospel by Michael Horton - White Horse Inn

Law and Gospel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

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The Old Covenant is obsolete. We are now under the New Covenant.

Critics of the Bible often cite Old Testament instances of slavery, violence against homosexuals, wiping out nations, etc., as evidence of a morally inadequate set of rules. They will also often ask why present-day Christians don't follow these "barbaric" teachings today. They complain that Christians are inconsistent, and say that if we really follow the Bible then why don't we advocate such things as killing both homosexuals (Lev. 20:13) and disobedient children (Deut. 21:18-21).

The reason we don't is because the Old Covenantal system, that involved such harsh punishments, has been done away with. We are under a new covenant. Jesus said in Luke 22:20, "This cup which is poured out for you is the new covenant in My blood."

This new covenant was prophecied in the Old Testament in Jer. 31:31, “Behold, days are coming,” declares the Lord, “when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah." It is referenced in 1 Cor. 11:25, 2 Cor. 3:6, Heb. 8:8, 9:15; and 12:24.

Of particular importance to our topic is Heb. 8:13 which says, "When He said, 'A new covenant,' He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear." The Old Covenant with its harsh judicial judgments is no longer in effect because we are under a New Covenant.

Why do Christians not obey the Old Testaments commands to kill homosexuals and disobedient children? | Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry

 

[Chuckt]

Why do Christians not obey the Old Testaments commands to kill homosexuals and disobedient children? | Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry

Because those rules were for a theocracy which America isn't.
What do you think Jesus is going to do when He comes back after the tribulation?

Luke 19:27 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.

Why? Is there a law? Yeah. There is. You can't have enemies if there aren't rules against some things.

 

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The New Covenant in a Nutshell

Someone recently asked, "We know that the new covenant brought an end to various old covenant rituals. But what is the new covenant itself? Can you put the new covenant in a nutshell?

Good question — and I will respond in a nutshell. Then I will expand a bit, because the central truth can be developed in many ways as we study the subject in the Bible.

In simple terms, a covenant is an agreement between two parties. It can be an agreement between a husband and wife, a friendship pact between two men, an alliance between two nations, or an agreement between God and humans. The new covenant is an agreement between God and humans. God has set the terms, and we enter the agreement if we agree to it. God sets the terms, he makes the offer, and we respond to it with either yes or no.

How can we have a relationship with God? How can we become his friends? How can we become citizens of his holy nation? Sinful humans aren’t in a position to make deals with their Creator. As sinners, we are cut off from God. We are alienated from him. Sin and corruption cannot even come into his presence. But simply because he is good, because he loves us, God has acted decisively to end our alienation from him and bring us into his household.

God himself is the one who sets the terms of this potential relationship. He tells us in advance what he is willing to do. He calls the shots, and makes us free to respond to his terms with either yes or no.

The terms God has set are these: Believe what he says about Jesus Christ, turn from your life of self-reliance and put your confidence totally in Christ to wash you clean of sin, clothe you with righteousness and bring you into the family, the household, the kingdom of God. That is the only way we sinful humans can get off the devil’s side and onto God’s side, so to speak. We do it by accepting the terms of God’s new covenant — the new covenant in the blood of Jesus Christ. That is the only way we can be rescued from our rebel state against our Creator, the Provider of our life and being. That is the only way we can be brought into harmony and allegiance with him.

At its core, the new covenant is Jesus Christ. He embodies everything the new covenant is. He is the Word of God and the Son of God, made flesh for us. He is the Message of God, the Mind of God, the Meaning of God, made flesh for us to see and know and love. In himself, he enables us to be friends with God. In Jesus Christ, God has given us a new basis for our relationship with God. This is the covenant God has given; we respond to Christ with either yes or no.

The New Covenant in a Nutshell | Grace Communion International

 

[Chuckt]

Good Question…does the NT contradict the Hebrew Bible in its discussions of the 'passing away' of the Mosaic Law

With these matters in mind, we may now address some issues of how the law is regarded in the NT.

Matthew 5:17-18 17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

One Skeptic objects that "the Law of Moses is nothing to be 'fulfilled' in any way....one cannot fulfill the law. One can only obey it." The skeptic is wrong, because he does not understand what "fulfill" means and is "fulfilling" it with his own meaning. To fulfill God's law was to confirm it by obedience; whereas to "annul" the law was to treat it as void.

The Christian and the Old Testament law

 

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The teachings of Jesus, the Council of Jerusalem, and other New Testament teachings (John 1:16-17, Acts 13:39, Romans 2:25-29, 8:1-4, 1 Corinthians 9:19-21, Galatians 2:15-16, Ephesians 2:15) make it clear that Christians are not required to follow the Old Testament rules about crimes and punishments, warfare, slavery, diet, circumcision, animal sacrifices, feast days, Sabbath observance, ritual cleanness, etc.

Christians still look to the Old Testament scripture for moral and spiritual guidance (2 Timothy 3:16-17). But when there seems to be a conflict between Old Testament laws and New Testament principles, we must follow the New Testament because it represents the most recent and most perfect revelation from God (Hebrews 8:13, 2 Corinthians 3:1-18, Galatians 2:15-20).

However, freedom from the Old Testament Law is not a license for Christians to relax their moral standards. The moral and ethical teachings of Jesus and His apostles call for even greater self-discipline than those of the Old Testament (Matthew 5:21-22, 27-28, 31-32, 33-34, 38-42, 43-48, 7:1-5, 15:18-19, 25:37-40, Mark 7:21-23, 12:28-31, Luke 12:15, 1 Corinthians 13:1-13, Galatians 5:19-21, James 1:27, 2:15-16, 1 John 3:17-19).

What Does the Bible Say About the Old Testament Law?

 

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Here is a fascinating article on what is meant by fulfilling the laws of Moses.

Did Christ Abolish the Law of Moses?

By Wayne Jackson

“Some teach that Christians are not under obligation to keep the Sabbath day in this age. If that is the case, how is Matthew 5:17-18 to be explained? Did not Christ say that the law would not be destroyed; that it would last as long as heaven and earth?”

In Matthew’s record of what is commonly called, “The Sermon on the Mount,” these words of Jesus are recorded:

“Think not that I came to destroy the law or the prophets; I came not to destroy, but to fulfill. For verily I say unto you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass away from the law, till all things be accomplished” (Mt. 5:17-18).

It is frequently argued that if Jesus did not “destroy” the law, then it must still be binding. Accordingly, such components as the “sabbath day” requirement must be operative still, along with, perhaps, numerous other elements of the Mosaic regime. This assumption is grounded upon a misunderstanding of the words and intent of this passage.

We may confidently affirm that Christ did not here suggest that the binding nature of the law of Moses would remain perpetually obligatory. Such a view would contradict everything we learn from the balance of the New Testament record. Consider the following points.

(1) Of special significance in this study is the word rendered “destroy.” It translates the Greek term kataluo, literally meaning to “loose down.” The word is found seventeen times in the New Testament. It is used, for example, of the destruction of the Jewish temple by the Romans (Mt. 26:61; 27:40; Acts 6:14), and of the dissolving of the human body at death (2 Cor. 5:1). The term can carry the extended meaning of “to overthrow,” i.e., to “render vain, deprive of success.” In classical Greek, it was used in connection with institutions, laws, etc., to convey the idea of “to deprive of force” or to “invalidate.”

(2) It is especially important to note how the word is used in Matthew 5:17. In this context, “destroy” is set in opposition to “fulfill.” Christ came "…not to destroy, but [alla — adversative particle] to fulfill.

The meaning is this. Jesus did not come to this earth for the purpose of acting as an adversary of the law. His goal was not to frustrate its fulfillment. Rather, he revered it, loved it, obeyed it, and brought it to fruition. He fulfilled the law’s prophetic utterances regarding himself (Lk. 24:44). Christ fulfilled the demands of the Mosaic law, which called for perfect obedience or else imposed a “curse” (see Gal. 3:10,13). In this sense, the law’s divine design will ever have an abiding effect. It will always accomplish the purpose for which it was given.

(3) If, however, the law of Moses bears the same relationship to men today, in terms of its binding status, as it did before Christ came, then it was not fulfilled, and Jesus failed at what he came “to do.” On the other hand, if the Lord did accomplish what he came to accomplish, then the law was fulfilled, and it is not a binding legal regime today.

(4) If the law of Moses was not fulfilled by Christ, and thus remains as an obligatory legal system for today, then it is not a partially binding regime; rather, it is totally compelling system.

Jesus plainly said that not one “jot or tittle” (representative of the smallest markings of the Hebrew script) would pass away until all was fulfilled. Consequently, nothing of the law was to fail until it had completely accomplished its purpose.

“But,” some surmise, “does not the text affirm that the law would last until ‘heaven and earth’ pass away?” No, only that it would be “easier” for the universe to pass away than for the law of God not to fulfill its mission (cf. Lk. 16:17).

And so, if one contends, on the basis of Matthew 5:17-18, that Moses’ law is still binding as a legally required regime, he must take all of it — including its bloody sacrifices, annual treks to Jerusalem, purification rituals, etc. As Paul later will argue — if a man receives one portion of the law [as binding for justification], he is a debtor to do all of it (Gal. 5:3). This is the logical consequence of the misguided “sabbatarian” view of this important text.

(5) In addition to the points listed above, Paul clearly argues, in his letter to the Ephesians, that the “law of commandments contained in ordinances” was “abolished” by the death of Jesus upon the cross (2:14-15). The Greek term for “abolished” is katargeo, literally suggesting the idea of reducing something to a state of inactivity.

Paul uses this term twice in Romans 7:2,6 — showing that just as a wife is “discharged” from the law of her husband when he dies, even so, through the death of the body of Christ, men were “discharged” from the obligations of the Mosaic law. That the law here contemplated is the law of Moses, including the ten commandments, is demonstrated by the reference to the tenth commandment in Romans 7:7 (cf. Ex. 20:17).

The harmony between Matthew 5:17-18, and Ephesians 2:15, is this: The purpose of the law of Moses was never to come to naught; its original design would be perpetual. On the other hand, as a legal code, it would be abolished, being cancelled by the Savior’s sacrificial death (cf. Col. 2:14ff.).

And so, a consideration of all the facts leads only to the conclusion that Matthew 5:17 does not afford any support to those who maintain that the observance of the sabbath day is a divinely-required obligation for this age.

https://www.christiancourier.com/articles/485-did-christ-abolish-the-law-of-moses

 

[Chuckt]

The Old Covenant is obsolete. We are now under the New Covenant.

The New Testament writers still established the Old Testament law in the New Testament and since I understand it, I can still establish it by reading throughout the New Testament.

If there is no law or universal law, you might think that God doesn't care if you lie, steal, kill someone, right?

Acts 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

It means that God once winked at sin but He isn't anymore.

Romans 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

God can cut us off and that is the warning.

Matthew 12:20 A bruised reed shall he not break, and smoking flax shall he not quench, till he send forth judgment unto victory.

When I read the word "till" in Matthew 12:20 then I understood the verse. If we aren't going to be judged by the law, then why say, "till"? It implies that God will break and God will quench and being bruised in life isn't an excuse.

James 1:23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:

James 1:24 For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.

Being religious and saying you claim Christianity and actually being a Christian are two different things. Anyone can profess and I can't see what is in people's heart. Only God can. But the person who claims it and has no use for the law can forget because they were never changed so James is saying you are deceiving your own selves.

2 Corinthians 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

If we say there is no law, act like reprobates then maybe there is a chance that some of us are reprobates.

I am going to re-establish the law with you:

1 Corinthians 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

Can you fornicate and go to heaven if there is no law? Think carefully. It is your future.

You can quote this stuff from websites but you should be careful because unless you have understanding, even your own church will lead you to hell.

 

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(3) If, however, the law of Moses bears the same relationship to men today, in terms of its binding status, as it did before Christ came, then it was not fulfilled, and Jesus failed at what he came “to do.” On the other hand, if the Lord did accomplish what he came to accomplish, then the law was fulfilled, and it is not a binding legal regime today.

(4) If the law of Moses was not fulfilled by Christ, and thus remains as an obligatory legal system for today, then it is not a partially binding regime; rather, it is totally compelling system.

 

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The New Covenant

Hebrews 8:12 "For I will be merciful to their iniquities, and I will remember their sins no more." 13When He said, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete[/COLOR]. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear.

Hebrews 9:15 ESV

Therefore he is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred that redeems them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant.

Jeremiah 31:31-34 ESV

“Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when "I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant that they broke, though I was their husband, declares the Lord. But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people. And no longer shall each one teach his neighbor and each his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest, declares the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.”[/COLOR]

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

The Old Covenant is obsolete. We are now under the New Covenant.

Critics of the Bible often cite Old Testament instances of slavery, violence against homosexuals, wiping out nations, etc., as evidence of a morally inadequate set of rules. They will also often ask why present-day Christians don't follow these "barbaric" teachings today. They complain that Christians are inconsistent, and say that if we really follow the Bible then why don't we advocate such things as killing both homosexuals (Lev. 20:13) and disobedient children (Deut. 21:18-21).

The reason we don't is because the Old Covenantal system, that involved such harsh punishments, has been done away with. We are under a new covenant. Jesus said in Luke 22:20, "This cup which is poured out for you is the new covenant in My blood."

This new covenant was prophecied in the Old Testament in Jer. 31:31, “Behold, days are coming,” declares the Lord, “when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah." It is referenced in 1 Cor. 11:25, 2 Cor. 3:6, Heb. 8:8, 9:15; and 12:24.

Of particular importance to our topic is Heb. 8:13 which says, "When He said, 'A new covenant,' He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear." The Old Covenant with its harsh judicial judgments is no longer in effect because we are under a New Covenant.

Why do Christians not obey the Old Testaments commands to kill homosexuals and disobedient children? | Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry

If "we" are under a new covenant "we" must have gotten saved recently. If that be the case congratulations, Pacer.

The Torah is what you are calling the Old Testament and it is far from obsolete. The Torah teaches one how to have a relationship with G-d. From start to finish it is a Faith book. The Torah also gives us the revelation of the Lord in every single book - none so greatly as the Song of Solomon - the wisdom of Proverbs is for today - Davids Psalms are for today. The spiritual warfare lessons taught by Elijah, Elisha & King David are for today. The prophecies of Joel, Ezekiel, Zechariah, Zephaniah, Obadiah, Jeremiah, Amos are being fulfilled today. The Torah is very important.

 

[Chuckt]

(3) If, however, the law of Moses bears the same relationship to men today, in terms of its binding status, as it did before Christ came, then it was not fulfilled, and Jesus failed at what he came “to do.” On the other hand, if the Lord did accomplish what he came to accomplish, then the law was fulfilled, and it is not a binding legal regime today.

(4) If the law of Moses was not fulfilled by Christ, and thus remains as an obligatory legal system for today, then it is not a partially binding regime; rather, it is totally compelling system.

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(1) If you are not a Christian, you do not have a new contract.

(2) Lost people sin under a category called "works of the flesh" so if you are doing these things, it is a very good chance the reason is because you aren't under the new contract with God.

Acts 2:38. Look it up. It says, "repent comma believe". It is really a causal resultant meaning that you repent as a result of salvation so if you are still in the old sins, you haven't repented as a result of salvation which implies you aren't saved. If you don't believe my interpretation then you didn't "repent" first and then believe which means you aren't saved anyway.

Either way, you're being too smart for your own good.

 

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If "we" are under a new covenant "we" must have gotten saved recently. If that be the case congratulations, Pacer.

Not "me". I believe I was quoting another source.

Christians can still look to the Old Testament scripture for moral and spiritual guidance...but...(see comments above).

 

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Acts 2:38. Look it up. It says, "repent comma believe". It is really a causal resultant meaning that you repent as a result of salvation so if you are still in the old sins, you haven't repented as a result of salvation which implies you aren't saved. If you don't believe my interpretation then you didn't "repent" first and then believe which means you aren't saved anyway.

"Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." (Acts 2:38)

"...Acts 2:38 does not teach that baptism is required for salvation. While baptism is important as the sign that one has been justified by faith and as the public declaration of one’s faith in Christ and membership in a local body of believers, it is not the means of remission or forgiveness of sins. The Bible is very clear that we are saved by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone (John 1:12; John 3:16; Acts 16:31; Romans 3:21-30; Romans 4:5; Romans 10:9-10; Ephesians 2:8-10; Philippians 3:9; Galatians 2:16).

Read more: Does Acts 2:38 teach that baptism is necessary for salvation?

 

[BreezeWood]

until the stone etchings by God, of the Deity's Commandments are found no Scriptures can be verified as authentic from God.

 

[Chuckt]

Acts 2:38. Look it up. It says, "repent comma believe". It is really a causal resultant meaning that you repent as a result of salvation so if you are still in the old sins, you haven't repented as a result of salvation which implies you aren't saved. If you don't believe my interpretation then you didn't "repent" first and then believe which means you aren't saved anyway.

"Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." (Acts 2:38)

"...Acts 2:38 does not teach that baptism is required for salvation. While baptism is important as the sign that one has been justified by faith and as the public declaration of one’s faith in Christ and membership in a local body of believers, it is not the means of remission or forgiveness of sins. The Bible is very clear that we are saved by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone (John 1:12; John 3:16; Acts 16:31; Romans 3:21-30; Romans 4:5; Romans 10:9-10; Ephesians 2:8-10; Philippians 3:9; Galatians 2:16).

Read more: Does Acts 2:38 teach that baptism is necessary for salvation?

That's not what I'm suggesting, Pacer. Some people say, "Repent" and if you don't, they don't give you the gospel because they think that "Repent" is part of the contract. "For the remission of sins" means "as a result of". So if someone didn't repent as a result of salvation, does that mean they are saved? It means they aren't obedient so if they are saying and seeing the same things the way that God sees them then why not the change? James says they are like a man that is deceiving themselves because they aren't a doer of the word.

James 1:23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:

James 1:24 For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.

 

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I understand, Chuckt.

"...Christ died to redeem the whole world. We can distinguish his redemptive work from the acceptance of salvation. He redeemed the whole world. However, many will reject that saving work. In affirming the universality of Christ’s redemptive work we are not universalists. To say that he redeemed the whole world is not to conclude that all will be saved." (Pope Francis)

Now we have a New Covenant...the Old Covenant laws are obsolete.

Jesus explained clearly that all the Old Covenant laws and prophets hang on two basic commandments: Love God and Love one another (Matt. 22:34-40).

“…for he who loves his fellowman has fulfilled the law. The commandments, “Do not commit adultery,” “Do not murder,” “Do not steal,” “Do not covet,” and whatever other commandment there may be, are summed up in this one rule: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” Love does no harm to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.” Romans 13:8-10

In John 13:34-35 Jesus gives a new commandment. Keeping it is what will identify a true follower of Jesus Christ.

“A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.”

"Now that we are under the new covenant, we are not under the penalty of the law. We are now given the opportunity to receive salvation as a free gift (Ephesians 2:8-9). Through the life-giving Holy Spirit who lives in all believers (Romans 8:9-11), we can now share in the inheritance of Christ and enjoy a permanent, unbroken relationship with God. Hebrews 9:15 declares, “For this reason Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance—now that He has died as a ransom to set them free from the sins committed under the first covenant.”


Read more: http://www.gotquestions.org/new-covenant.html#ixzz2uSv7Zdj0