The Confederacy and States' Rights

[Equat]

Well if you're referring to slaves then did the north allow freedom of speech or assembly for the slaves that were in the five slave states that remained in the Union? No.

The Confederates in their Declaration of secession were not indicting the slave states. The Confederates were indicting the Union.

And what does that have to do with what I said?

You asked me if I were refering to the slave states that weren't treasonous with the Confederates. My answer is "No" because the Declaration of secession was not refering to those states. The Declaration was refering to the Federal Union as a whole, not to specific states, nor to specific counties in their states which did not secede.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

The Confederates in their Declaration of secession were not indicting the slave states. The Confederates were indicting the Union.

And what does that have to do with what I said?

You asked me if I were refering to the slave states that weren't treasonous with the Confederates. My answer is "No" because the Declaration of secession was not refering to those states. The Declaration was refering to the Federal Union as a whole, not to specific states, nor to specific counties in their states which did not secede.

No, I asked if the slaves that were still in the Union had more rights than the slaves that were in the Confederacy, and of course the answer is no. You seem intent on condemning the south, but are rather mum on the north.

At any rate, no one is sticking up for the south regarding it's treatment of slaves. Slavery is an evil institution, and nobody laments it being gone.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Oh, KevinKennedy, having slaves was not treasonous. Firing on Old Glory was treasonous. Leaving the Union was treasonous. Pretending that the prime cause of the war was not slavery is not honorable.

 

[Equat]

[/QUOTE]You seem intent on condemning the south, but are rather mum on the north.

At any rate, no one is sticking up for the south regarding it's treatment of slaves. Slavery is an evil institution, and nobody laments it being gone.[/QUOTE]

Why condemn the Union when they weren't treasonous? The Union didn't fire upon the US and start a war with itself. The Confederacy in its Declaration of Secession didn't condemn the slave states that weren't treasonous. The Confederacy condemned the Federal Union.

A lot of people advocating the Confederacy are lamenting the abolition of slavery and the defacto slavery that existed until the civil rights movement of the 1960s. Witness all the Dixie banners countering the civil rights demonstrations and those of the KKK. The reason that the Confederacy became the Confederacy was to prevent the abolition of its racist slavery. Advocating for the racists slave protecting Confederacy is advocating for slavery and lamenting its abolition. Lamenting the Confederacy's loosing is lamenting the loss of slavery. Since slavery is an "evil institution" in your words, then the Confederacy must be evil since it disagreed with your judment of their evil.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Any defense of the Confederacy is a defense of slavery. Both are inhumane abominations.

 

[Sunni Man]

Slavery was NOT the reason for the Civil War.

But that's what they teach children in grade school.

It was over economics and political power.

Lincoln was the first northern president to be elected in many years.

The balance of power had shifted from the southern states to the northern states.

The southern states felt that they would now be second class to the north, and resented their new status.

Slavery was just the emontional justification to stir up the population to enter into war.

 

[Equat]

Slavery was NOT the reason for the Civil War.

But that's what they teach children in grade school.

It was over economics and political power.

Lincoln was the first northern president to be elected in many years.

The balance of power had shifted from the southern states to the northern states.

The southern states felt that they would now be second class to the north, and resented their new status.

Slavery was just the emontional justification to stir up the population to enter into war.

In the words (in their “Declarations of Causes of Seceding States” at Declaration of Causes of Secession ) of the Confederacy, who opposed Constitutional “states’ rights” –the reason for the Civil War?
• The Confederacy seceded universally and primarily to preserve racist slavery:
o “…our State has taken of dissolving its connection with the government … the prominent reasons which have induced our course. Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery…”– Mississippi
o “Utter subjugation awaits us in the Union, if we should consent longer to remain in it. It is not a matter of choice, but of necessity. We must either submit to degradation, and to the loss of property worth four billions of money, or we must secede from the Union framed by our fathers, to secure this as well as every other species of property. For far less cause than this, our fathers separated from the Crown of England.” – Mississippi
o “We affirm that these ends for which this Government was instituted have been defeated, and the Government itself has been made destructive of them by the action of the non-slaveholding States. Those States have assume the right of deciding upon the propriety of our domestic institutions [slavery]; and have denied the rights of property [slaves] established in fifteen of the States and recognized by the Constitution; - South Carolina
o “In all the non-slave-holding States, in violation of that good faith and comity which should exist between entirely distinct nations, the people have formed themselves into a great sectional party, now strong enough in numbers to control the affairs of each of those States, based upon an unnatural feeling of hostility to these Southern States and their beneficent and patriarchal system of African slavery, proclaiming the debasing doctrine of equality of all men, irrespective of race or color-- a doctrine at war with nature, in opposition to the experience of mankind, and in violation of the plainest revelations of Divine Law. They demand the abolition of negro slavery throughout the confederacy, the recognition of political equality between the white and negro races, and avow their determination to press on their crusade against us, so long as a negro slave remains in these States.” – Texas
o “We hold as undeniable truths that the governments of the various States, and of the confederacy itself, were established exclusively by the white race, for themselves and their posterity; that the African race had no agency in their establishment; that they were rightfully held and regarded as an inferior and dependent race, and in that condition only could their existence in this country be rendered beneficial or tolerable.” – Texas
o “That in this free government *all white men are and of right ought to be entitled to equal civil and political rights* [emphasis in the original]; that the servitude of the African race, as existing in these States, is mutually beneficial to both bond and free, and is abundantly authorized and justified by the experience of mankind, and the revealed will of the Almighty Creator, as recognized by all Christian nations; while the destruction of the existing relations between the two races, as advocated by our sectional enemies, would bring inevitable calamities upon both and desolation upon the fifteen slave-holding states.” – Texas
o “Georgia having dissolved their political connection with the Government of the United States of America, present to their confederates and the world the causes which have led to the separation.…we have had numerous and serious causes of complaint against our non-slave-holding confederate States with reference to the subject of African slavery.” - Georgia

 

[Sunni Man]

I am not interested in reading your long copy & paste

So in one sentence or so, in your own words, please state your rebuttal.

 

[Equat]

Don't read the Confederate's Documents if you don't want to be confused with the facts.

 

[paperview]

Slavery was NOT the reason for the Civil War.

But that's what they teach children in grade school.

It was over economics and political power.

Lincoln was the first northern president to be elected in many years.

The balance of power had shifted from the southern states to the northern states.

The southern states felt that they would now be second class to the north, and resented their new status.

Slavery was just the emontional justification to stir up the population to enter into war.

South Carolina had declared its right to secede in 1852.

What was happening then? I'll give you some time to think about it.

 

[Sunni Man]

Don't read the Confederate's Documents if you don't want to be confused with the facts.

There are no 'facts" in what you posted.

What you posted wasn't just a Confederate document as you are trying to allude.

The second sentence said: " The Confederacy seceded universally and primarily to preserve racist slavery"

The Confederate declaration never said anything like that.

The item you posted as so called evidence.

Is full of conjuctures and notations, put into the document to influence the reader.

And were not part of the orginal wording.

 

[paperview]

Here's another fun game for you Sunni, et al.

Click here: Declaration of Causes of Secession

These are 4 of the Declarations of Causes of Secession from Georgia, Mississippi, South Carolina and Texas.

Now that's a lot of reading for some of you south'run kin, so just do this little easy-as-snap thing:

Press Control ^F. That's the Find key. Now enter in the word "slave" in there.

See how soon it takes before you begin to lose count.

 

[Equat]

Don't read the Confederate's Documents if you don't want to be confused with the facts.

There are no 'facts" in what you posted.

What you posted wasn't just a Confederate document as you are trying to allude.

The second sentence said: " The Confederacy seceded universally and primarily to preserve racist slavery"

The Confederate declaration never said anything like that.

The item you posted as so called evidence.

Is full of conjuctures and notations, put into the document to influence the reader.

And were not part of the orginal wording.

If you don't like my paste, then go to Declaration of Causes of Secession and read the document for yourself.

 

[paperview]

Don't read the Confederate's Documents if you don't want to be confused with the facts.

There are no 'facts" in what you posted.

What you posted wasn't just a Confederate document as you are trying to allude.

The second sentence said: " The Confederacy seceded universally and primarily to preserve racist slavery"

The Confederate declaration never said anything like that.

The item you posted as so called evidence.

Is full of conjuctures and notations, put into the document to influence the reader.

And were not part of the orginal wording.

Er, that's his commentary. Note the ":" after.

The rest are the original words from the secess docs.

Are you going to deny the phrase "Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery-- the greatest material interest of the world." in the Mississippi Declaration is not there?

 

[Sunni Man]

If you don't like my paste, then go to Declaration of Causes of Secession and read the document for yourself.

I have read it before.

It's about southerners fear of the northern economic interests subjugating the southern economic interests.

 

[Equat]

If you don't like my paste, then go to Declaration of Causes of Secession and read the document for yourself.

I have read it before.

It's about southerners fear of the northern economic interests subjugating the southern economic interests.

Don't confuse yourself by refreshing your mind with the facts, then. Good night. I'm going to bed.

 

[paperview]

If you don't like my paste, then go to Declaration of Causes of Secession and read the document for yourself.

I have read it before.

It's about southerners fear of the northern economic interests subjugating the southern economic interests.

Through owning slaves.

It's all there.

 

[paperview]

Just in case you missed it Sunni:

Here's another fun game for you Sunni, et al.

Click here: Declaration of Causes of Secession

These are 4 of the Declarations of Causes of Secession from Georgia, Mississippi, South Carolina and Texas.

Now that's a lot of reading for some of you south'run kin, so just do this little easy-as-snap thing:

Press Control ^F. That's the Find key. Now enter in the word "slave" in there.

See how soon it takes before you begin to lose count.

 

[Sunni Man]

If you don't like my paste, then go to Declaration of Causes of Secession and read the document for yourself.

I have read it before.

It's about southerners fear of the northern economic interests subjugating the southern economic interests.

Don't confuse yourself by refreshing youself with the facts, then.

This is getting too tedious and obviously you aren't a student of the Civil War era.

In a nut shell:

Yes, slavery was an issue and caused tension between the north and south.

But No, slavery was NOT the main issue that led to open warfare.

Economics, as in almost every war, was the issue which caused the two sides to commence hostilities.

Good night

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Any defense of the Confederacy is a defense of slavery. Both are inhumane abominations.

Following that logic any defense of the Union is a defense of slavery.